MissEwa

Wait, is he dating Sierra now? What happened to Kelly Wigglesworth? Of the four of them, he seems like the weakest link. He's pretty and athletic enough but he has no game. Aubrey, David and Kelley all have a Survivor instinct he was missing. That said, I could think of plenty of worse people they could have brought back. He's mostly inoffensive. I'm pre-emptively tired of the inevitable Kelley Wentworth fawning, if I'm honest. I like her and she's a good Survivor player but something about they way she is revered bothers me.

That's how I read it too. Yeah, he was whiny but mostly just upset with himself, which I think anyone would be in that scenario. TBH I felt like he handled it really well given the stakes. He could have just not said anything, but IMO drawing attention to it and his subsequent reaction was instrumental in his eventual win. It's unlikely Laurel was *actually* going to flip at that point, but it allowed her to feel better about her decision, and Wendell's not making a bigger deal of it may have made her feel a little indebted to him, like he had somehow given her the win. (OF COURSE, Wendell had no recourse to challenge the win, and there was no logical reason for Laurel *not* to flip on him when that happened, but I'm speculating more about the emotional impact of what happened and Wendell's reaction, and how Laurel felt about it. He could have been a bigger boob about it at the IC, then bitched and moaned back at camp, making her feel like crap, bringing other people into it and overtly demanding that she owed him something - many lesser social players would have - but he didn't, and I think that helped him win.)

I feel like I'd get blasted for this on any boards but if I was playing Survivor - it's a million dollars, like HECK I'm giving it to someone I don't like. I'd rationalise it, of course, even to myself, but honestly? It's a no-brainer (literally). I tend to think as much as it gets dressed up, these jury votes always come down to emotion and the personality of the members of the jury. Maybe it's not always 'who I like more' but I do think it's always about the juror. Did Chris really vote for Dom because he made a calculation of all the moves in the game and decided Dom was better? Or did voting for the person who personally bested him make him feel like he was taking the high ground and being a GOOD person? The best FTC performances have always been the ones where it feels like the finalist knows exactly which members of the juror need to hear what - I cut you because you would have won, I didn't want to cut you but *that guy* insisted and at the time I couldn't do anything, cutting you was a mistake and I'm sorry, absolutely if you had made it to F4 I would have taken you, etc. etc. - It's all about making the juror feel good about their vote.

Very much so. If they keep it - and it looks like they will - I hope this is something that changes as it becomes just another part of the game.

Except that... they do? I mean, the jury votes on whatever they criteria they want and the jury determines the winner so their emotions obviously do determine the winner. The 'best game' thing is more grey, but I fall on the side that part of the 'best game' is getting the jury votes. YMMV. Or maybe some of Dom's votes were from people who preferred his personality? Maybe some of them were bitter towards Wendell? I just don't get the 'everyone who voted for X did it because *good reason* and everyone who voted for Y did it because *bad reason*' pronouncements, when everyone voted for their own (ALL perfectly valid, in the scope of the game) reasons, that we will never fully know, and probably there are good ones and bad ones on both sides. I liked Dom. I would have been happy with his win. He played a really good game. From the edit we saw, Dom and Wendell were very, very evenly matched in every way - including jury votes. He got as close as anybody ever has to winning without actually winning. From the sounds of it, Dom put on a huge show at the F6 TC that alienated a few jurors and that cost him the game - in the same way that Angela's not being able to make fire cost her the game, or Wendell's not calling out Jeff's name at the F7 IC could have cost him the game. Getting jury votes is part of the game, and Dom made a mistake and it cost him.

This combined with your post in the reunion thread has made me think that what Wendell got was, in a lot of ways, the female winners edit. Which is interesting because he is actually pretty alpha and the kind of guy Jeff would usually go mad for - athletic, attractive, a provider around camp. The edit was definitely weird and didn't give us an accurate picture of what was happening. People were left out, and I think strategy was left out. Angela's invisible edit took all the wind out of the F4 fire-making - and I wonder if it's a thing they're still ironing out, because Devon got only a marginally more visible edit last year, almost like they give people very low-key edits when they go out in ways that the audience might not think are fair, because it cuts out the backlash if we don't really know them.

I can't see which part of me you're quoting but my point had nothing to do with you specifically (although I did use your post as an example because it illustrated what I was talking about), but with the way that the 'bitter juror' criticism only ever seems to go one way, when in fact it's very possible that Dom got votes for less than exemplary game-play reasons too. You've said you think Angela doesn't know how to play and therefore we should somewhat discount her vote for Wendell. I'm saying we have zero evidence that Jenna knows the first thing about Survivor so her vote is possibly equally discountable. You clearly think Dom deserved the win and that's absolutely fine - I don't even really disagree. If he had got one more vote, he would have won and I'd have been happy about it because he played well. Wendell also played well and to me, deserved the win more *because he got the votes*. During the finale Stephen Fishbach tweeted "The #Survivor jury doesn't reward who played the best game. It determines who played the best game." and I think that's true - you need the jury votes to win. It's part of the game. If, for whatever reason, you don't get them then... you didn't play the best game. (Just my opinion, not questioning anyone's judgement, not calling anyone out, just... stating my views.)

I love the idea that it was planned but - if the edit is to be believed - it'd be pretty clear Laurel would vote for Wendell so they'd know that's who they were giving it to. Yep. I think this is a thing Linda Holmes (MissAlli) wrote about years ago - that from talking to Survivor jurors, absolutely 100% the biggest factor in who they give a million dollars to is just... who they like more. Donathan can feel like Dom's game deserved defending, but still want Wendell to have the million dollars.

FWIW (and I watched live in Australia) our TV guide had it as two seperate episodes - one running 10am-12.30pm, the next running 12.30pm-1pm, so either that was just a random guess on the network's part or they knew exactly how far over the finale was going to go in advance. The vote read and tie was definitely in the first bit, but I can't say for certain which bit the announcement was. But the tie definitely muddies the waters about what should be discussed where. I'm on team 'can we just have one thread'? The firemaking challenge is a HUGE disadvantage for the winner of F4 immunity. Not only does it take away a lot of their power, but it gives their biggest threat the opportunity to look even more heroic. I will concede that this season it was the difference between a boring, predictable steamroll of an FTC and a freaking TIE (and my preferred winner) but I still don't like it.

Was Dom the meatshield though? They each won two immunities but Wendell was more athletic and while it's been a long season and I may be misremembering I feel like most of the plans to flip focussed on getting Wendell out, not Dom. I can't remember Dom's name coming up as a target at any point between the Chris showdown and F6 - if it was one of the two of them it was Wendell (which may have been a mistake - I feel like Laurel would have been more likely to be down with a Dom boot than a Wendell boot). Strategically, maybe, but it's still pretty close. I think if your definition of 'meatsheild' is 'navigated a more perilous course to F3' then Wendell has the edge, but of course YMMV. But... This this this. The bitter jury argument also never seems to allow for the fact that bitterness/bad voting reasons can go both ways. It's always 'everyone who voted for X did so for legitimate, good game-related reasons, while everyone who voted for Y was bitter/stupid'. Maybe Libby voted for Dom because she blames Wendell for her boot. Maybe Chris voted for Dom because Wendell mocked his rapping to someone during the game and it got back to him at Ponderosa. We should discount Angela's vote because she's 'clueless about the game' but Jenna's is valid? There are a hundred different reasons people have for voting at the end of the game and some seem better or more rational or more acceptable than others but they are ALL valid. And I was as surprised by the Donathan vote as anyone but the whole idea that he got the voting instructions wrong is ridiculous and insulting. The show's been going for 36 seasons and he's a fan. Multiple people have confirmed that Dom's display at the TC was much worse than what we saw - and given the voting breakdown at FTC it's possible it ruffled a lot more feathers than we saw.

I was a Michael apologist until the FTC and now I think he's a self-important ass so whatever they were doing backfired. I hated the idea of the FTC format but I actually like it - when, as you say, everyone gets to speak. The editing has been so lopsided this season but that it extended to the FTC was ridiculous. The outwit-outlay-outlast divisions are still BS, but other than that, I'm okay with it.

As much as I liked the result of this season and it would mean it didn't happen, the fire-making challenge is still bad. BUT since they're determined to keep it, idols/advantages should cut out at F6. There needs to be one 'straight' tribal everyone needs to get through to make it to the end.

There is a cameraman (and probably a producer) right there when they're voting. They know right then how the vote goes and spend the next three/nine months editing the show and creating a storyline with that knowledge. The whole 'we'll read the votes at the reunion' is an act - the only people who don't know the result are the castaways and the audience. In this case, Jeff goes over to get the urn and they tell him it's a tie, he arranges the votes for suspenseful reading, then takes the urn back to TC, as he always does, but instead of saying he'll read the votes in LA he just reads them there, then Laurel votes. There's no fore-knowledge or extra production shenanigans required.

I hadn't heard of him but then started thinking maybe I had and decided he was the guy from King of Queens. Was very confused by the actual Kevin Hart. Jeff "apologised" to James and Erik, in that he was like 'James, you're a bonehead, but you found TWO IDOLS so actually you're a MASTERMIND, and Erik you may have thrown the game away but you came fifth TWICE and not many people have done that so good job!' I don't think an actual apology was uttered but I may be wrong about that.

This is doubly true because they both had idols and were both winning immunity in that end game - if she flips and they manage a blindside, one of them goes home with an idol in his pocket. The other is still there and still has an idol, and she's their target (plus also expendable to the alliance she flipped to, who would need a secondary target because of that very idol, so she almost certainly goes next). If she flips and they catch wind of it, they use their idols to bounce her then and there. There was a small chance she could orchestrate something where neither of them had immunity and only one played their idol and the other went home, but that's risky, and it still doesn't put her in the power position. She played the right game to get her to the f3, and that sucks for the jury - and many of the viewers at home - but it got her there, whereas flipping probably wouldn't have. I know there's a lot of talk about playing to win, and not for third place, but if you can't get to the F3, you can't win anyway. It was super-frustrating to watch - and I say that even as a fan of Dom and Wendell - but it was her best move.

I hate the fire-making challenge. Remember when going to fire at 4 was exciting? This might have been moreso had it not been the woman who's had such an invisible edit even the other people playing seem to forget she's there vs. the guy who's randomly narrated bits of the action and is tied-favourite to win. There was no way we were getting an Angela-Laurel-Dom F3, and that's been clear for weeks. I'm amazed by the tie. That was actually great.

So a half-hour reunion with so little attention paid to the current castaways that nobody even noticed one of them wasn't there - I don't get why they bother at this point. Erik's vote-out will never not be funny to me, and I will always feel a little bad about that. I was hoping it would be Wendell but thought the FTC was going all Dom's way, so happy with the result. Amazed at the tie - I feel like that's something the show would have spent more time hyping. Overall I liked this season a lot more than most. The editing was all over the place but it was a fun ride with a F3 I liked and a great ending, given how tight those two were the entire time.

I'm looking forward to the challenge commentary. "The DAVIDs are falling behind. DAVIDS, pick it up!"

I don't know who Kevin Hart is so every time Jeff refers to him as THE KEVIN HART I have to laugh a little. Where was all that couple talk we predicted?

I like they think so little of Angela they couldn't even be bothered showing her face when they showed her vote.

Donathan voted Wendell. Huh.

Yeah they played up the bond early on then kind of pulled back, I guess so there would be suspense there?

Yeeeeesssss!

Tie? They all know it too.

I think Dom has this and I'm disappointed but not *very* disappointed.