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Oooh - good call - we were missing Ali. I've slotted he in between Jake and Brad. I think the rest is correct! Matt from London Deanna Jason Meznick Jillian Jake Brad W. Ashley Ben F (ugh) Emily Sean Desiree? Juan Pablo Andi Chris Kaitlyn Ben JoJo Nick

This!!! I noticed it too. Those were the weirdest collection of outfits ive ever seen. Even Danielle had one on, though hers was nice.

Or having sex on camera in broad daylight.

Ive tweaked your list, but wikipedia should help: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bachelor_(U.S._TV_series)

Oof. What a mess. (Corinne that is). FWIW, yes, Kaitlyn went topless... in the middle of nowhere and not for a photographer. She also didnt demand that Chris hold her boobs. Corinne did it in broad daylight as a show. Kaitlyn did it for fun, and was not particularly flagrant about it. Two VERY different things. I wonder how long it will take Nick to see past her boobs to hear her talk. She had NOTHING to say. Especially compared with his actually substantive conversations with a lot of the other women. He's going to figure that out soon, right? I really like his conversations generally. I feel as though I know more about many of these women than I knew about Lauren or Jojo by the end of Ben's seasons.

Ha. No. but all the leads of this show are vain. As far as obnoxious goes, I totally believe ge could be perceived that way. He doesnt seem to play by the normal rules of this show's universe. I think that he calls it like he sees it, which can be very offputting to some types of people (especially the pampered types that flock to this show). I also think he appreciates boldness, as seen in Andi, Kaitlyn, and Ashley I, which could tick women off too, as they are having to live with the bold (aka rude) people 24/7.

Oh yes. They have turned out to all be pieces of work, but i remember liking lindzi (worst spelling ever), who went on to date Kalon. Emily, the public health doctoral student, and KacieB, long before she jumped the shark on Sean's season. But yes. Rachel was ok - or seemed that way at the time. She obviouslyturned out to be horrid on Bachelor Pad.

Where do you all get this fabulous Bachelor gossip? Between this and the fact that Ben slept with Jojo, and Nick slept with Kaitlyn and Shawn multiple times during filming, this thread has taught me so much about how much Im missing?

There's nothing wrong with that language. As I said, I have no problem with the question. I have a problem with the forum. America clutched their pearls. I didnt. As far as language, he could have gone with, "If you weren't in love with me, why would you make me feel so loved?" or "If you weren't in love with me, why did you invite me to the fantasy suite" (and then if she didnt get it he could have followed up with, "But when the cameras were gone, you could have been honest with me, but you left me feeling like I was the one you were going to pick." Like I said in my original post - who cares about the dirty laundry -that ship has sailed - She aired a lot more dirty laundry in her book. I think Nick unfairly get blamed for slut shaming Andi. I just don't think he's an angel either. But apparently, neither does he, so I think that's good for the series.

Thanks for the clarification on the timing of Andi's reveal. You clearly know more than me. I was not trying to blame Nick for Josh's behavior AT ALL. That is all on Josh. I do believe that his question wasn't a very classy move. Especially, since Nick had lived in the house with Josh, Nick had better insight into how awful Josh was than viewers did, since Josh got the winner's edit. Though Andi is the one who picked him. He knew he was going to ask her that. He could have picked better language than he ended up with. I don't like the way he asked her. (I don't have a problem with the question - I just think that its not the kind of thing you ask in front of a studio audience and America. YET.

I just binged my way through this thread like a cokehead at a ski resort. So fun reliving all the moments. I HATE the seaons where the producers seem intent on hurting the (usually already insecure) lead. The main ones that come to mind are Ashley (the Bentley disaster), Desiree (Brooks. Ugh), and Kaitlyn (the slut shaming wasnt necessary At. All.). I kinda like the seasons where I dont like the lead and they get some comeuppance. Deanna (moping over Graham and having all the guys hate her when she was clearly NOT OVE Brad/being rejected on TV). And Jason (I think Jason was the first to famewhore out his kid for the show, which I didnt like. So when America turned on him, I evilly enjoyed it. Poor guy. Needed an independent PR consultant more than anyone I've ever seen. (Even if Melissa knew it wasnt working and knew she was being dumped, he didnt have to kiss Molly literally minutes later in the same seat. Not that this needs to be rehashed.) I like the seasons when the group of suitors are an appealing bunch. Ben Flajnik, as odious as he was, had a great group of girls (or to some extent they seemed to Bond in their Courtney hatred in a way that I enjoyed). And Emily - she had an amazing group of suitors who were all fun to watch. Jef, Arie, Chris Bukowski when he was a ridiculous goof, that ridiculous football guy. I liked that she gave guys chances and cut them immediately when she realized she wasnt interested on a one-on-one. But ultimately the best seasons are when the lead is not insecure. The insecure ones (Deanna, Ben F, Ashley, Matt Grant, and Desiree) make for too much cringeworthy tv. The ones who unabashedly know who they are or who they want to present to the world (Emily, Brad 1 & 2, Trista, Meredith, Jillian, Andy Baldwin, & Sean Lowe) are more enjoyable for me, even if I don't like the lead, I generally don't hete watch quite as much.

I feel the need to applaud Nick for not ever saying anything along the lines of "Im not lovable" (Ben) or "I such a nice guy, why don't women appreciate that"? He seems to know who he is (Boob Guy, likes sex), and women who are strong. I'm optimistic this will be an interesting season, even if Nick is not my favorite person ever to be a part of this series. As far as nick slut shaming, no... he didn't slut shame Andi. But he did air her (and his) dirty laundry on national tv when he knew her fiance was boar. So he at least in part enabled Josh's slut shaming of her and America's. That said, I think the ship has sailed on that one for Andi, as she aired a LOT more dirty laundry in her book than Nick ever did. My main concern is that Nick may be quite awkward in bed for someone so otherwise self composed. I mean, he slept with Andi and Kaitlyn AND now Liz and none of them were interested in more? Eeeps. That's a pretty bad track record of women on reality tv who don't want seconds. Does he even have competition in this arena?

I agree on Lauren, but not on the why. Vocal fry doesnt bug me a bit. Its the total and utter vapidity. She is so empty.

What has Kaitlyn been doing? She does not look great right now! Especially considering there were two moms of tiny babies in the mix, both of whom looked a lot healthierand less puffy! Shawn also doesnt look fabulous - I always though he looked a bit like a busted Ryan Gosling... but in that clip he just looked...busted. The producers must really hate these two to give them such bad lighting! Anyone know anything about Corinne's multimillion dollar business?That sounds so shady to me... liek that phrase was just implanted in her vocabulary without a lot behind it?

Holy moly she is tiny! But yes - they are cute.

I don't think farmgirl flowers edit was bad. She looked competent, and professional, but with some weird business experiences associated with being Silicon Valley adjacent that made her a bad fit for the show and for Marcus's deal. YMMV.

Oh everything about that post screams narcissism ;). I guess that for me, with all the softly lit 'mommy paradise' nonsense, I appreciated the small dose of (unsoiled) reality.

I take your points in the third paragraph - you are clearly right on that stuff - I know nothing about them. I just thought that the 'experts' in the documentary listened to very grainy garbled noises, and made a lot of assumptions, without appearing to consider other options. That's all. I don't think it was tv, necessarily, just that I wasn't convinced by the way they presented the sounds they had that these voices were John's and Burke's. Why do I posit that it could be tv? Well - when I've been out partying, I pass out with the tv on all the time. Alternately, I crank up the radio when I need to stay awake (such as, say, to stage a crime scene) or get up early (say, to catch a flight). Just providing more info as to why I included this!

Yes - Me too. The whole 'camera crew follows me for days while I'm leaking' thing didnt appeal to me. Nothing wrong with the blog post, just struggling with the professionally staged photos throughout the whole process. Not my cup of tea. Probably why I'm not a reality star! Nah - FWIW, I'm a fairly recent mom, and there is so much pressure to be post-partum perfect for new moms today. Posing in the mesh hospital panties? (Ok - the posing is weird) but I'm happy that a public figure isn't all 'look I birthed a human and didn't even mess up my hair'. Thing. it's unreasonable for women, so I like that Jillian is trying to be on the right side of that dynamic. Even if she is posing with perfect hair for a profesisonal photographer. There was also another similar regular person photo shoot like this one that went viral - so I like that she's supporting that mom too. Birth is hard, scary, and the life change is immense. I'll support any public figure who nods to that.

Jillian had a baby, Leo, and is getting all kinds of press for her postpartum pic: http://www.jillianharris.com/leos-birth-story/

I dont watch a lot of true crime tv, but I can say that the investigators certainty with all their proposed ideas rankled and undermined their credibility for me. Maybe its a result of the show being cut down from 6 to 4 hours, but I really struggled with the "science" they kept saying they had at their backs. It seemed they tried one counter example for each scenario and then "proved their idea" because the one counterfactual didnt work. The note stuff was pretty damning, except for the "business" misspelling, and the "all the i's are dotted" comments were just laughable. I have misspelling ticks. I am incapable of putting the right number os double letters in the right places in some words, like brocolli, broccoli (sp?). And that can happen pretty easily. But the Burke stuff in particular I found difficult, for the following reasons: 1) He hit his sister with a golf club in the face? Yeah. That's evidence that he's a kid. It happens all the time, intentionally or unintentionally depending on the age. And mainly evidence that his parents dont watch him closely enough than that he could kill her. 2) Kids CAN sleep through anything, especially on a day like Christmas when they stayed up late, had a lot of adrenaline and sugar, and then went to bed. 3) Some of Voices in the background of the phone call could easily have been noises from the tv. Which ok - maybe they weren't, but it sure seems like a balanced investigation could have brought this up. 4) They cut out friends who talked? Of course they did - there is no way they anticipated the shitstorm of coverage they got. I would put out word too not to talk to the media, at least, in their situation. The police? Yeah, that's odd, but could just as easily be an embellishment by the jilted friend. 5) Yup, I'd invite my friends over in this scenario. Might need someone to stay with Burke while we go out looking for JB. Or someone to hug. And yes - I would tidy for my friends in this scenario. It's on the police that they didnt stop them. 6) Of course Burke is fucked up. He lost half his family in an earlier tragedy. He lost his sister in a media maelstrom. That said, my most likely scenario is that Patsy did it, and JR was involved in the coverup. (Maybe because Patsy made it seem like Burke did it at first, and then he was stuck with the coverup already rolling). I think she probably snapped and hit her kid. And she was probably drunk from CHristmas or exhausted from Christmas and hit her harder than intended.

You are not kidding. She is actually cute!!! (Shudders) I always thought she was hideous inside and out. Now, its just inside, I guess.

I had the same thought - though I think the fabric pattern is quickly adjustable in the way the chair design is not. I loved the chair with the Olive cutout so much. The stool was nice too, but I would have preferred if they were the same color. I liked the bench details, but I didnt like the fabric at all. But that would be so easy to change, so that just the beautiful bench details would shine. And a good designer knows how to tweak their ideas to bring out what the client wants.

To briefly defend her... The cubby was in LA. Her beuatiful home that she left was the apartment therapy one in sydney. This story, http://waitingonmartha.com/murchison-hume-giveaway/, indicates Petes was a fairly well to do expat working for various international businesses. I think he started working with Murchison at some point. My take is that Murchison Hume used Max as its face, but Peter was the guy behind the scenes most of the time, but wasnt interested in the partnership with Lemonis or being on TV. It didnt work.

This crazy lady seems to owe her deal more to Gwyneth Paltrow and Goop than Martha Stewart. Though i dont think she realizes that people HATE Gwyneth these days. Another wtf moment: she was explaining the name of the business, and her hubby's grandfather was "president of the australia club". Wtf is the australia club? I kind of agree that her branding didnt need a complete overhaul, though it did need to change. "Clean Evolution" is a terrible name. But her original font and icons were illegible and incomprehensible. I periodically buy fancy natural cleaning products in a pinch from my fancy grocer. I buy based on price and smell. Im not spending 9 bucks on dish soap. I will grudgingly spend 6.