slade3

I just got around to watching the first episode and what really annoyed me was Carole saying "Someone once told me 'talk less; smile more.'" Yeah, you know who told her? Leslie Odom's Alan Burr in the Broadway musical Hamilton. And he wasn't telling her. He was singing it to Alexander Hamilton. How could she even think no one would catch that? The other thing that bugged was Jules saying "No Jewish man has a choice but to end up with a Jewish girl." Well, she hasn't met my husband. Or any of the many Jewish male friends we have, in New York City, who not only didn't marry Jewish women, but married Black women. Oy, I hate when people speak as if they know every Jewish/Black, etc. person in the world. STFU, Jules!

I was reading on another forum that Steven Yuen, Alanna Masterson and Lennie James all cancelled appearances at a convention in Calgary at the end of April because filming has been pushed up and they have to be on set. (Someone had tickets to take pictures with them and was disappointed.) But Michael Cudlitz is scheduled to attend something in Italy the same days shooting begins, so they were wondering if this is a sign he is the victim. Others pointed out that it doesn't mean anything. It's quite possible they are filming things out of sequence and MC is simply not needed for the first few days of filming. On one hand, I wonder if that is a clue. But, on the other hand, I just read AL's interview with The Hollywood Reporter and his line about the person who dies having an impact on every single person in the group really screams Glen to me. I just don't see how Abraham would have an impact on everyone. Would Abe's death have an impact on Glen, Maggie or Aaron? Or Carl and Michonne? Unless they just mean the brutality of the death, and the fact that it signifies the end of their "peace". Then, yes, it would. If the forum is correct about the schedule and the convention cancellations, at least we know filming begins in a week. There may be news/spoilers about a possible victim in a couple of weeks. ETA: Some people on the forum also mentioned MC's hair color being different. Of course, as Sherry67 writes, they can easily color it when he's back on set.

I read this somewhere else and was disappointed. I was hoping they'd leave that out. Especially if they have to do CGI or whatever. That would be bad. But they were a really good 12. :)

It's not that the TV show runners follow what a small group of fans think. The ad execs follow what a small group of vocal fans think. The ad execs express concerns to the network execs and the network execs tell the show runners what they have to do. We'll see how it goes. I'm rooting for TWD and Richonne, but I admit to worrying a bit because of my experience with other shows. Well, I'd love a shower scene, but I'm happy with kisses and I love yous. I didn't particularly like the watch tower sex and wouldn't want Rick and Michonne to do that. Doesn't seem like their style anyway. Love Glenn and Maggie but that seemed a bit...unsophisticated for Richonne. I could be wrong, but they seem like a couple who prefers privacy and beds. I interpreted Glenn's look in the RV to be concerned, so I'm curious. I think he cares deeply for both Rick and Michonne (and has known Rick longer of course), I'd like to know what he thinks. Gave up on True Blood after 2 seasons. Did Sookie end up with Bill? That would have bothered me. I always rooted for Eric in the books, but failed to read the last 3 books.

I would also label Rick and Michonne's relationship as "subversive" in the TV world, and in Hollywood. I take subversive to mean an uprooting of a society's "norms" and I think that's what this is...for us, the viewers. Within the TWD world, I don't think anyone (except Merle in season 1) has the time to decide whether they're attracted to someone based on race or religion or economic status. In fact, if Merle had survived, I think he would have eventually dated outside his race if someone who wasn't white had shown any interest. And the way he was looking Rick over in that scene when Rick asks for his help to give Michonne to the governor? I think Merle would have taken Rick to bed if Rick had offered. (I do wish the show had clarified why Glenn and Abe seemed so surprised by Rick and Michonne. I would have thought everyone's attitude would have been more like Daryl's - nonexistent. Was Glenn surprised because Rick never said anything to him about liking Michonne? Was he surprised the way many people are surprised when they learn their parents or teachers actually have sex? And Abe, like everyone else, has been a witness to how close Rick and Michonne are, and his attraction to both Rosita and Sasha proves that he wouldn't blink an eye at an interracial couple. Don't get me wrong, I got a kick out of Glenn's and Abe's reaction, but the TV viewer in me wanted to know what the others thought about it and why they each reacted the way they did.) Anyway, I've always been a fan of subversive couples on TV and I've always had my heart broken. Scandal is a good example. I think Tony Goldwyn and Kerry Washington have massive chemistry, but the way their "love" plays out on the show confuses and, sometimes, offends me. I stopped watching in the middle of season 3 because I just knew it wouldn't lead anywhere I wanted to go. Came back this season and think I'm done again. Spike and Buffy - another subversive couple that broke my heart. I avoid negative fan reactions to couples I'd like to see together, and I avoid reading anything that a writer, show runner or actor says about their show. Buffy and Sleepy Hollow are the reasons why I do that. I'm just starting to read some of the interviewes with TWD people because of the snippets I've read here. And I feel pretty good about Rick and Michonne staying together as a couple-in-love because of everything Scott Gimple has said about them, and because Andrew Lincoln and Danai Gurira are on board with it. And it helps that Glenn and Maggie have lasted so long. I know Glenn and Maggie are together in the comics, but it's still good to know the show hasn't been pressured by execs to end this relationship. However, in my experience, there is a special hatred for Black women on TV (and elsewhere in this business). It's getting better, I think, because people aren't being quiet about it anymore, but it exists and it's weird. So what Scott Gimple, Andrew Lincoln and Danai Gurira want won't mean much if ad people or TV execs get involved. Rod Serling (Twilight Zone) talked about how much sway people with extreme views had on TV and how often he had to change scripts because of corporate sponsors feeling certain things were too controversial. He discussed a scene that offended some people. Apparently, the execs received several angry letters about it and even though the letters all came from the same zip code, the scene was cut. I know that was a long time ago, but I don't think TV has changed that much. Ads still rule. I would be shocked if Rick and Michonne get shower scenes like Glenn and Maggie, or naked sex scenes like the one Glenn and Maggie had in that watch tower that time. That would be when the letters/emails would start, and that is when the execs would tell the show to back off. At this point, I think they've come too far to break Rick and Michonne up, but I doubt AMC will lose ad revenue to keep Scott Gimple's vision intact. It's going to be all before and after shots for Richonne. I would be happy to be wrong. But to get back to progressive vs. subversive: I think people are misusing "progressive" and really mean subversive.

That's the thing for me. I really like Shonda. I love hearing her interviewed. I want to support her. But I hated the way Olivia killed that guy and I've kind-of hated Scandal since season 3. Someone upthread mentioned Fitz killed that supreme court justice, but it wasn't so violent, was it? Didn't he put a pillow over her head? I recently watched the first season of Scandal again and I'd forgotten how hot Fitz and Olivia's scenes were. It made me sad to think what came next. I know Shondaland is pressured to give us these OMG TGIT moments to keep ratings high, but what a waste of chemistry. I haven't found Fitz and Olivia hot in a long time. But what made me put the show back on my DVR after I deleted it in the middle of Olivia's chair thwacking scene? I admit, it was Fitz showing up and asking if she was okay. It's the possibility of Fitz and Olivia getting back together. I know. Pathetic.

I agree with this. And it's not that a Jane/Xo argument wasn't due, it's just the way it played out. It felt very manufactured. Xo felt off in this episode. Maybe if they'd left out the stripper being sent to Jane's school, Xo's drunken behavior wouldn't have felt so off. To be honest, I was enjoying Jane and Rafael and feeling a bit bored with the engagement/wedding/true love stuff. But this last episode is the first time I was really enjoying Jane and Michael. I don't know why, but it never crossed my mind this could mean Michael is going to die. I now there was that voiceover comment last season about Michael loving Jane until the day he died, but I thought that threat was over. Now it makes so much sense! And that makes me sad. I'll root for an amnesia story line even though I really hate amnesia story lines. I'd prefer an amnesia story line to a Petra's-twin-steals-her-life-and-sleeps-with-Rafael story. I've been trying to figure out what they could possibly do with the show next season and I guess it could be a Michael dies/gets amnesia, Jane and Rafael date again, and then Michael returns.

I would be okay with not seeing the Lucille death so I was disappointed when I read the Gimple interview and he said they would be [paraphrase]. Their argument is that the cliffhanger closes one story, and opening season 7 with the scene is the beginning of a new story. I don't agree with this way of telling this particular story. As I've mentioned before, showing me the victim allows me to think about Rick and the family over the hiatus, to focus on their grief and speculate how they will mourn and what they will do next. Now I'm just worried about the death and thinking about whether I'm willing to watch this scene again. I don't think I'll feel as hurt/crushed/sad over the cast's expressions as I did when I was watching the finale. And that does a disservice to the excellent work the cast put into this scene. Doesn't help that Gimple tweeted a picture of a peanut butter protein bar with the words "submitted without comment". Now people think it's a hint that Michonne was the victim. I didn't see it that way - I just saw it as a hint that the protein bar may come up again in season 7. I hope not. I've decided Rick told Morgan about it to clear up any untruths that may be between them and since Michonne is his partner, he doesn't want any lies between Morgan and Michonne either. If this comes up as a way to start an argument/misunderstanding/trust issue between Rick and Michonne, I'll be annoyed. Especially since I keep saying this is a grownup relationship. I don't like Chris Hardwick at all, but I'll keep TD on my DVR in case Andrew Lincoln makes an appearance on the show next season. The only full episodes I watched were the most recent with Danai Gurira, Melissa McBride and Yvette Nicole Brown. It bothered me that Chris insisted Michonne jumped out of bed naked but Rick covered up a bit. Danai was polite when she said "Really? I don't remember Rick covering up" [paraphrase] and Chris was all "Yes, he did." I absolutely hate when someone who wasn't somewhere insists their version is right to someone who was actually there.

I was looking at the season 6B key art that was released in January and I'm really surprised that so much given away in it. There's a shot of Carol holding a cross, a shot of the walker wearing Michonne's shirt and vest, a shot of the satellite, and a shot of the RV on the road. I know, at that point, few would have been able to figure out that was Carol's hand with the cross, or Michonne's vest on that walker, but it's all so obvious now. I wonder if they'll do a collage like that for 7.

Good point. Thanks. I'd like to see Glenn be a father, so it's a nice reminder that the Hilltop story line can still play out even if Glenn is spared. Just tell the story. Exactly.

Terrible. I'm so glad I walked away from the show emotionally very early in the season. I was only sticking around to see if they would make Crane and Abbie a couple. I would be so hurt if I was still into this mess. I'm pretty sure it will be canceled - as I said before, I just can't imagine this getting another season.

I don't know why - maybe I'm tired - but this made me laugh hysterically. Thanks. Needed it.

I'd read that Gimple and Reedus were blaming Rick on Talking Dead, but I didn't watch the episode, so it's only secondhand for me. And then there are the comics. But I agree that no one should blame Rick. He didn't even want half of them to ride in the RV to Hilltop and they insisted, as you mention. And don't get me started on Daryl's recklessness. Speaking of Daryl, has his noisy motorcycle ever been discussed? I've been rewatching episodes, and it just gets me when they're all "Don't shoot the guns; it'll draw the walkers' attention" and then Daryl revs up his bike and takes off. Not to mention hoe silly it is to be so exposed when you could be in a car. The motorcycle takes me out of the show.

Thanks for the info about Negan and the comics. I'm so curious how the show is going to let this play out. I hadn't considered he underestimated Michonne at all. Interesting. What I've read about Negan lately makes me more confident Rick, Carl and Michonne are safe. They seem to have too much story to tell where this guy is concerned. (Rick and Carl were never really on my list of potentials, but it's a show, so I never believe everyone is safe.)

I agree. But I'm really starting to believe this is how it's going to play out.

I've read some debate about this. Some say he does kill women. And didn't someone from Hilltop say he killed a boy in front of them? From the IGN Gimple interview I posted the other day, Gimple mentions season 7 will take place in several locales. I assume he means Alexandria, Hilltop, The Kingdom (armored guys) and wherever the Saviors live. My guess is that Maggie will leave Alexandria and live in Hilltop (which could be another indicator that Glenn is the victim. I hope he's alive and goes with her, but the question would then become why does she feel the need to go there if Glenn is alive?); Rick and Carl will stay in Alexandria (with Michonne, hopefully) to handle Negan and continue to create a community together; Carol and Morgan will go to The Kingdom; and we'll see some Negan episodes where he lives. Someone had a theory on another forum that intrigued me. They posted a gif of the moment Negan meets eyes with Michonne during the line up. He certainly seems to acknowledge her defiance, and he nods. In the comics Negan says something like They decided to omit that comment on the show, but the theory is that this tiny acknowledgment from him could mean Michonne is the person he develops the "strange respect" for, along with Carl, that Gimple mentions, and this could mean a Michonne/Carl take down of Negan. I love this theory and hope there's some truth to it. (Someone else predicted it would be Enid, which is less intriguing to me.) Of course that little nod Negan gives Michonne could mean he's decided on her, but I agree with those who say her locks would have been caught in the barbed wire. Edited to add the link to the Gimple article again: http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/04/the-walking-dead-jeffrey-dean-morgan-and-scott-gimples-13-season-7-teases

Thanks for this entire post. I watched the finale, but still haven't watched the last 5 - 6 minutes. And though your post makes me want to watch the finale again, with the full ending, I'm not sure I'm ready. I was crushed by the gang's fear and horror. I was very aware of Abraham's bravery, and I loved what I saw of Carl and Michonne in that scene with Negan. But Rick, Sasha and Glenn crushed me and I don't know that I want to watch again. Kudos to all of them. Like you, I think Michael Cudlitz is attractive. I don't like Abe for the reasons you mention. The hair really bothers me, but it's his crudeness that bothers me more. (I like a handlebar mustache, but only with dark hair.) However, I loved his scene with Rick in East, and the way he tried to make Rick feel better. And I was impressed by him in the finale. I hated the cliffhanger for various storytelling reasons, but I've started to hate it more because it has taken so much away from the actors' performances.

I would love to say I'm no longer going to try to figure out who the victim is, but I'd be lying. TSDF seems confident they'll have an answer long before October, so maybe we won't have to keep guessing. Apparently, cast and crew have already started showing up to set, which confirms their belief from several weeks ago that TWD might start filming in April this year. So I'm leaning toward either Abraham and Glenn here. Glenn: because Scott Gimple said the finale is the end of a story and the season 7 premiere is the beginning of a new story when he was on TD. Personally, I think AMC execs pushed for a cliffhanger to get the highest ratings possible, and I think Gimple had to come up with the best way to make a cliffhanger make sense. And I think it could have worked on a different show. They had to come with something, and as people have already mentioned, Glenn makes the most sense as a victim who would end a story for everyone and force them to have a "new beginning". In the comics Isn't that the definition of a "new beginning"? I think there are a lot of reasons why he isn't the victim, too - the strongest being the anger over his fake out death earlier in the season and, isn't he the only Asian character on the show? I recently read that Andrew Lincoln said Rick will not be the same after this. No, he won't be the same after any of the deaths, but a Glenn death would hurt even more because he isn't only blaming himself for it; Today, Glenn's death makes the most sense to me storywise. (I could change my mind tomorrow!) Abraham: To me, Abraham would not have as great an impact as Glenn but I mentioned the other day that I won't be surprised if Sasha So, technically, Abe and Sasha could also bring about the new beginning for the group, too. AL's comment about Rick made me a little nervous. I immediately thought of Rick's angry "You wanted this place" to Michonne in the season 5 finale. I know I said yesterday that the writers won't play games with these two because they're adults, but I'm wavering. I still think the natural progression is for Michonne to be the rock he needs to get back to his leadership position and a rift in their relationship over this would be a disappointment to me (and a waste of time), but when executives chime in... http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/the-walking-dead-season-6-finale-andrew-lincoln-rick-grimes-negan-a6969241.html

I often worry about what writers will do to their characters to amp up the drama, but I've read Andrew Lincoln's comment that Rick and Michonne are adults and this always comforts me. I don't think they'll go down the angsty-road with these two. Michonne is too smart for that and both Rick and Michonne have too much on their plates to play games about their feelings. Michonne has always been very intuitive when it comes to Rick. She will know he did everything in his power to save the people in that RV. If, after watching Negan bash in the head of a member of their "family", Michonne walked away from Rick for being a coward, that would be a total destruction of her character after so many seasons. I just don't think they'd go there. I really like Glenn. I know without a doubt the three characters I absolutely want to survive are Rick, Michonne and Carl. But I'm kind of surprised that Glenn and Daryl come in next for me. And then Maggie and Sasha. And then Aaron. I feel terribly guilty that I'm hoping Abraham is the victim because I like Michael Cudlitz a lot. And I loved Abe's scene with Rick at the end of East. But I don't care for most of his scenes on the show. I've read comments that some fans want to see Abe fight in a scene they believe is coming up from the comics, and I get that. He would be a true badass. But I don't want to see that enough to sacrifice the 8 characters I mentioned.

Hershel indicated Rick has a flat ass in season 4. I think he looks just fine in his black jeans. And I actually don't think he has a weaselly face so I should have put quotes around that word.

I really like Carl's hair, too. I would be sad if they cut it. Some of the foilers I read weeks before the finale aired said this was going to happen and I'm so glad it didn't. How could a leader come back from that? Rick's people/family would all feel betrayed and mistrustful. Some would come to forgive him because he had been put in an impossible position, but others would not. Others would blame him for putting them in that position. And Rick could never forgive himself. That would take the story and his journey in a direction I don't think the show wants (or needs) to go in. it would have made for a terrific cliffhanger, but I think it would have ruined the storytelling more than this cliffhanger did.

Someone on another forum explained the books on their nightstand. The Mullahs Storm is about a general (?) and female sergeant (?) who fight a war side by side with other survivors. Thanks for this. I'm dismissive of both Carol and Morgan, but this commentary on them fascinates me. I will pay more attention to them on rewatch and in season 7.

IGN interview with Scott Gimple and JDM. From this article it looks like Carl and Maggie are safe. Gimple mentions Maggie's illness will be addressed and Carl will have his moment with Negan. I know none of us thought they were options, but I'd say this article confirms 4 people are alive: Carl, Maggie, Carol and Morgan. And we will, unfortunately, be getting a couple of episodes from Negan's POV. http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/04/the-walking-dead-jeffrey-dean-morgan-and-scott-gimples-13-season-7-teases I'm curious about Negan having a "strange respect" for someone who may not be Carl, but I don't want to get to know Negan.

Thanks for this thoughtful post.

Yes, I think it would be hard to like Rick and Michonne together if you don't find Rick attractive. My husband thinks the characters have chemistry and are clearly in love, but he doesn't think Rick is attractive enough for Michonne. I am also an elitist bitch and have been called one to my face, but I'm an elitist bitch who loves a man who looks like Rick Grimes - the beard, the weaselly face, the bow legs, the flat ass, the curly hair, the scars, the big guns, the anger, the despair...