slade3

This is a good point. I liked watching Jane, Michael and Rafael navigate parenthood in such an unusual situation. It sent a positive message because Mateo was so happy and there was no sense that any family issues had anything to do with Jane and Rafael. I just found out about Michael an hour ago after reading a comment on a different forum. I'm two episodes behind and have never been spoiled for the show because I didn't think anything could really stun me. I remember in season 1 when the narrator said Michael would love Jane until he died, or something like that, and the assumption was that he would be killed off. But after he survived the shooting, and they were married, I thought he was out of the woods and they would last. But this news stuns me. I won't give up the show because of this. I wasn't a huge Michael fan, but I liked him, and I was beginning to enjoy his relationship with Jane and Mateo. And, as some pointed out upthread, Michael's relationship with Rogelio was great. What may prompt me to give up the show is the flash forward. I hate flash forwards. And I hate flashbacks, especially when they involve mourning. I will watch the two episodes on my DVR to see how it all plays out, and I'll watch next week to see what I think of the flash forward. If it feels off to me, I may stop recording it every week and just binge watch when it shows up on Netflix. I'm sorry for Michael fans. (OT, but does anyone know why season 2 isn't on DVD?)

I've deleted the episode so I can't check, but I remember thinking something seemed off about the hallway layout. I thought there was a new door and wondered if I had missed a utility closet in the past. Now I wish I had paid more attention when I was thinking about it.

The reason I don't like them (possibly ?) battling over Fitz is that if Olivia decides to actively go after him again, I won't know if its because she really wants him, or if it's because she doesn't want another woman to have him. We've had so many "I want to be with you"s and "I can't be with you"s that I no longer know who Olivia wants. I think she prefers Fitz to Jake, but I'm not sure. I actually think Jake would make her happier, if anyone can, but I'm not sure about that either. That look in Olivia's eyes when the FBI friend expressed interest in Fitz made me think of competition. I won't be surprised if Olivia calls Fitz at night in the next episode to say hi. I agree that Cyrus would be a better president than the real one we have now.

Thank you for the reminder. I skipped this episode during my rewatch because I wasn't a fan of the kidnapping episodes when I saw them live. I remember Marla Gibbs's "Where's the Black lady?" line and I remember thinking there's no way Olivia's Black neighbor's lover (I didn't remember they were lovers but it's been a while) would say that. She would know Olivia's name for several reasons: Olivia is "famous"; Olivia had the neighbor's key, or the neighbor had Olivia's key (I think?) and in a building like that, you would know your lover's next door neighbor. Especially since I think they live in the penthouse and there are only 2 apartments on that floor. But that's off-topic, sorry. I just realized there was a Black woman who made the call to take out Olivia during the kidnapping episodes and also had Jake and Olivia arrested when they came to her with info about B613. I forgot what her job was.

Great post. That message is terrible but consistent. Wasn't that the reasoning Cyrus used on Olivia when he wanted her to dump Fitz - "Great men can't be happy." I wonder if Shonda/TPTB believe this, or if TPTB created this premise and have been able to stand by it for the show over the 6 seasons. That would actually impress me since I think it's easy to mix up your characters' beliefs, especially when those beliefs are so off. I also think your point about someone being happy to make the drama worth it is an excellent one. This is probably because I've been rewatching the entire series from season 1, but Olivia is so miserable. She was pretty impressive in season 1, but there was a point when she stopped being impressive and would just sashay into a room and shout or demand something. I started waiting for her to sat "thank you" to Jake a few times and she didn't. Without these little niceties, why do I care if these characters get what they want? In the other thread, I admitted that, after 6 seasons, I just now (a few days ago) figured out I want Jake and Olivia to be endgame. I also figured out that even though I love Tony Goldwyn, I don't like Fitz and will be disappointed if we have to go down the Fitz/Olivia road again this season. I also realized that as insane and morally corrupt as the Scandal White House is, @swimmyfish, I would still take it over the US's current administration. And I also wondered what the people in Scandal world are doing. Maybe Shonda will throw something into the show about protestors now that a crazy administration has become a reality.

I dislike Olivia and last night's episode made me dislike her even more. I didn't think that was possible. I have no idea what to expect from this season, but I hope there's a way to redeem Olivia a little bit. I can't even pinpoint what it was about this episode I didn't like. Was anyone else struck by the sight of Olivia having dinner with another Black woman? While doing my rewatch, it struck me that the only other Black woman on the show has been Olivia's crazy, terrorist mother. (I could be wrong, so please correct me if I am.) Not even Cyrus's husband would surprise me at this point. He did start out being paid to sleep with Cyrus to bring him down, so we know he's capable of doing things for money. With this show, we may find out he's the country's top sniper spy and takes their daughter with them on missions.

I know you're kidding, but you're right. And that's just sad to me. I've come to dislike Olivia a lot and believe Jake can do better. What's really frustrating is that I watched episode 5x02 yesterday and I have a feeling I never saw this episode because it was all new to me. I was surprised by how much I loved Jake and Olivia on a road trip together. Olivia looked beautiful in her baseball cap and casual clothes, and Jake is always hot. They looked great together and the actors have a nice chemistry. I was watching the episode wondering why we can't have this. Jake and Olivia running OPA as a couple, solving juicy, twisty mysteries. Olivia not raising her voice at him...

Thanks to all who pointed out Jake's wife has been recast. I couldn't place her last week, but I knew she had a very familiar face. I also kept forgetting to look her up. I've been rewatching the previous seasons and Jake's season 5 wife has a distinct look. To recast with an actress who was so clearly on Glee (and later on Vikings, I see from her IMDB page) is weird to me. My initial thought was that she's a goner and that's why they chose to recast her with a known face. But she's Jessalyn Gilsig. No way she's just here for a season. She may be in this for a while. And that makes me sad since I just realized (like yesterday) that I want Jake to be endgame for Olivia, not Fitz. It took me a while to get there (since I haven't really cared either way for the past 4 seasons), and now that I'm on a team, I think that team is doomed. Oh, well...

You are right. Thanks for pointing this out. So no one in the "goon squad" is the actual assassin. I must admit, I'm glad. I liked Vargas and would have hated it if Jake had killed him. I like your idea of someone other than the main crew being involved. I'm so bored by everyone in Olivia's circle being a killer. Is Tom still alive? Or Olivia's mother?

I'm pretty sure he met with Olivia. Olivia secretly taped him trashing his supporters. I rewatched the beginning of last night's episode. When they announce Vargas has won, Jake looks disappointed and puts his head in his hand. But not disappointed because they lost possibly disappointed because he has to do a job. After the loss, Abby asks Jake's wife where he is and the wife shrugs and says "He left." Abby says he can't leave, they still have to concede. Cut to Olivia and Mellie drinking, a scream, and news that Vargas has been shot. Next time we see Jake, he is rushing into the war room/briefing room where Fitz and his people are discussing strategy. We also do not see Charlie, Quinn or Huck. Which gives me this sinking feeling we're going to spend the season with Olivia going back and forth believing Cyrus or Jake killed Vargas, destroying her relationships with both of them, only for it to be Charlie under orders from Papa Pope, destroying his engagement to Quinn. The Fitz theory from upthread would be an unexpected twist.

I thought this episode was ridiculous. And disappointing. Shonda's shows used to be pretty good with twists, but right now I would be stunned if we don't learn that Papa Pope forced Jake to kill Vargas. I think Cyrus is very capable of having this done, but the look on his face at the end when Olivia said she would prove it made me think the "twist" is Cyrus really was in shock. I'd have to watch the episode again - and I'm not sure I want to - to see where Jake and Charlie were when Vargas was shot. If they were in the room, I'm going with Papa Pope forcing Jake to choose a hired gun to do it. If they weren't in the room, I'm going with Jake or Charlie as the killer. It just seems so obvious to me. Either way, last night's episode was a sad reminder for me why I keep giving up on the show. And can Olivia be any more annoying? I'm just so tired of everything she says being a shout or a demand or a silent stare that ends in a melodramatic drink. I wish everyone would just say "No" and walk away.

The new format doesn't really work on my Mac. Hopefully I'l be able to figure out how to fix it.

Some people seem to think this spells trouble for Glenn, but I'm not sure. The film stars Tilda Swinton, Jake Gyllenhaal and Paul Dano, and began prinicipal photography on April 22. Not sure what principal photography consists of, but isn't it possible Steven Yeun doesn't have to be on the film set at the same time he has to be on TWD set? I'm not so sure it really means something, but I wanted to post anyway. (Also of note, I've read SY no longer has a mustache and some feel that is significant because it took him so long to grow the one he had in the finale. For continuity purposes, he'd obviously need the mustache. I haven't seen any recent pictures of him, so I'm just going by what I read elsewhere.) In other news, TWD is casting Ezekiel.

Me, too! I've never really liked early Andrew Lincoln, but he's really grown on me. I guess that is what a 6+ month hiatus will do to you! He's kind of adorable on that show.

TSDF said filming would either begin April 25th or May 2nd - so if they start May 2nd, Michael Cudlitz being in Italy doesn't mean Abe is the victim. The original poster said Steven Yeun, Lennie James and the other actor (can't remember) cancelled their Calgary appearance because their filming had been pushed earlier to April 25th. So I guess it's still possible they will be filming a week earlier than the others.

I forgot Sasha was in the line up, too. So, yes, Negan would probably find all of the women attractive enough to want them in his harem. Someone upthread made the point that everyone had their moments in the final episodes of season 6, and when we look back on it, there will be signs for any character that ends up being the victim. For me, if the writers are really going with the "this character has had an impact on everyone in the group", it would be Glen. But I see the signs for Abe. Some have said Denise .

I'm one of the people who believes the victim will be a male. I just don't see AMC allowing a woman to have that death, especially after all the negative attention on the finale. And I've read Negan likes the ladies - though he clearly felt Maggie looked terrible due to illness and was willing to make her the victim, I think he'd be attracted to Michonne and Rosita and would keep them around to see if he could lure them over to his side. I'm still leaning on Abe even though we don't see his POV in the truck during the finale. I don't have a theory on the truck POV, but I think people are on to something when they say that POV throughout the episode means something. I know what you mean about Aaron, but I think Aaron is a red herring. As well as Eugene.

Well - I was thinking that Rosita was a stand-in for Abraham since there was really no way they could get Abraham to leave with Michonne and Glenn without Sasha (and instead of Rosita since she was with Daryl and Denise). But I thought that would be too much of a stretch, too!

No. (I actually checked and Rosita is next to Daryl.) I'm only saying the ultrasound scene is this significant moment shared between Glenn, Michonne, Daryl and Abraham. Maggie is there, but she only looks at Glenn before resting her head on his shoulder. She doesn't share a look with the others. Glenn and Michoone share a look. Then Michonne and Daryl share a look. Then Daryl and Abraham share a look. And then Abraham nods at Glenn. Glenn, Michonne and Daryl are in the truck during the finale. And I wondered if that alone could point to our victim. Might be a stretch, but it seemed significant somehow. These 4 people staring at the future, and then ending up in that line up.

I just saw a tumblr post predicting a season 7 scene about Michonne's son by specifically discussing the end scene in Knots Untie. In Knots Untie, Michonne sits in the passenger seat next to Rick on their way to the Hilltop; it's a natural place for her because she usually sits next to him in a vehicle, and they've just become an official couple. But on their way back to the ASZ, the Hilltop guy is sitting in the passenger seat next to Rick. I rewatched the scene to check if the Hilltop guy has any dialogue with Rick, any reason for sitting next to him, but they only share a look. So the only reason for Michonne to sit in the back with the others is so she can see Maggie's ultrasound. I know the ultrasound moment is significant for a number of reasons (the tumblr post predicts it's foreshadowing for Michonne telling Rick about Andre, which I think is highly likely), but one thing I never considered is the people who look at the ultrasound in relation to the Negan lineup in the finale. In the RV, Glenn hands the ultrasound to Michonne, Michonne hands it to Daryl, and Daryl hands it to Abe. And though Abe wasn't kidnapped with Glenn, Michonne and Daryl, these four feel really significant in some way. Is it possible Negan's victim really is one of the four? I've stopped worrying that Michonne is Negan's victim, and I also doubt it's Daryl because of all I've read about merchandising, etc.. But I've also read the theory that the truck POV in the finale is significant. Why show that POV so many times, and then use the same type of POV for the death scene? I've been moving away from Glenn as the victim and more toward Abe. But now I'm starting to worry about Glenn again.

OMG, thank you! A few months ago, I was channel surfing and stopped on an episode of Love Boat. One of the main guest stars looked so familiar, so I looked her up and realized she was Magda on this show! But I did not place her as the actress on Three's Company! Now her familiarity makes so much more sense.

I posted this in the media thread, but I wanted to post it here too, in case it ignites more season 7 discussion. Tyler James Williams stopped by Entertainment Weekly radio and discussed the finale: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/18/walking-dead-tyler-james-williams-negan-finale He said something others have said here a few times: Someone on another forum thinks this points to proof that Glenn is the victim and that Tyler James Williams was there for the death scene as Noah, but others have pointed out that Tyler is good friends with Christian and Alanna and was probably invited to the goodbye dinner. (I'm choosing to go with the latter.) Still seems weird that they'd lie about it. What's the big deal if we know they already filmed the scene? Also seems weirder that no one seems to be on the same page. Of course Tyler doesn't work on the show anymore, but some of the other cast members seem to be contradicting each other. I'm not following the who-said-what closely, so I'm not even sure if the stuff I've read is accurate. But this article states that Norman Reedus said he knows on The Today Show, while Chandler Riggs tweeted he doesn't know, and Greg Nicotero said he doesn't know if the victim knows. And I read an interview with Andrew Lincoln that said the cast made a pact not to discuss it. I wonder if anyone will be annoyed with Tyler for doing that interview.

Tyler James Williams stopped by Entertainment Weekly radio and spoke about the finale: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/18/walking-dead-tyler-james-williams-negan-finale He also said something that some people here have been telling us:

Thanks for the numbers.

I found it very hard to believe they would ask the cast, especially Andrew Lincoln, to recreate the anguish, turmoil and fear they were all able to convey in the finale, 6 - 7 months later (if they filmed that scene in November 2015). I know they're actors, but how do you get that moment back? Maybe it's easy to go back to that place after time off, but I just can't imagine it would be the same, no matter how terrific an actor is. I would think at least one of the eleven would not give the same performance they did 6 months earlier. I also didn't believe that Negan/JDM filmed the scene alone. We see continuity errors in TV and film all the time. It would be too easy to have a continuity error in this pivotal scene. What if one of the extras on Negan's crew is sick, or has a new gig? I remember the one woman in Negan's crew standing by the RV, behind Negan. What if she can't be there for the new season? Stuff like that. Good points.