Wendy

I don't think so. I think the winners of the GOT were Ned's children. Bran - King of the 6th kingdoms Sansa - Queen in the North, first of her name Jon - King beyond the Wall ala Mance Raider (in all but name) Arya - Queen Pirate. probably on her way to America now. When Arya is done traveling she probably will visit Bran, Sansa and Jon. Sansa and Jon are relatively close and probably will be the ones who see each other most frequently due to trade agreements and food supplies. Sansa no longer has to fear going to kings Landing because Bran is King so she probably visit every other year. I am just happy because I know this show has no happy endings but IMO it was a great tribute to parental nurturing, The Mad King had two children and they both turn into nutcases , Tywin was a really bad father and his two favorite children ended up dead. Ned had to suffer the scorn and bad jokes of every other noble house for being too honest and too noble, yet his children are the next generation in power. I have the feeling that they will do great, each of them on their own kingdom. They sure will bring honor to House Stark. Time for Wolves indeed!

I thought that was the smarter thing Sansa could have requested and it shows how much she has learned in this game of thrones. She is thinking long term. Bran is the King but he can't have children so when he dies, there won't be a Stark as a King of the 7th kingdoms, by getting Northern independence now, she assures that no matter who the King is for the other 6th kingdoms, the North will remain independent. Bran might live a year, maybe fifty years, but when his time comes as it will, no matter who the next king is, the North remains its own. That is what Sansa has always advocated, that was her main goal and she got it. I like it.

Jon shouldn't have to keep a lid on anything. He has the right to tell whoever he wants, it shouldn't be a secret anymore. Daenerys asking him to keep it a secret just so she could have her claim uncontested is one of the most selfish things I have seen. Tell everybody and have Jon publicly announce his abdication or make him your partner (either by marriage or an alliance) Daenerys could have share the news herself in a controlled way but that would have required some level of compromise like give Jon back the North and let him rule it as she rules the other six kingdoms and that is something that Daenerys would never do, compromise, share the power. Daenerys has none to blame by herself, she came with a picture in her head that people in Westeros were waiting for her with flowers and parades and when that didn't happen she wasn't able to adjust and use her political strategies, she didn't even care for as long as she had dragons there was no need to negotiate, for as long as she has dragons everybody has to bend the knee or burn. Her dragons, her arrogance, her inability to cope with anything out of the scope of her understanding have been her undoing. Danaerys has always been a tyrant but she wanted to portrayed the image of a just queen, well after last night that is no longer possible so she has now decided to remove the mask out of her face and now she is the evil queen. That is not Sansa's fault, that is not Varys, Tyrion, Jon, Cersei's fault. That was a decision carefully considered and consciously made by Daenerys herself. At least now she has revealed herself, there is no more room for her self-serving grandstanding of "saving" Westeros. Someone will have to save Westeros from her.

Dany burned the people in Kings Landing. She made it to the Red Keep afterwards. She started at the gates and worked her way to the Red Keep in a precise formation. The Red Keep building was destroyed but the city of King Landing and his habitants were the ones burned to a crisp. She went street by street trying to achieve the maximum number of casualties.

Jon shouldn't be in the throne exactly because he is half Targaryen. He has absolutely no political skills and is a horrible judge of character. He needs to stay away from any position of power. Now I can totally see why Jon could decide to go and live with the free folk. After this massacre I would be completely ashamed to show my face anywhere let alone the North knowing that I used my title and my prestige to vouch for someone like Daenerys, that I brought my men to fight this war where they became savages who were on par with the Dotraki, that I had the chance to do something to change this and didn't lift a finger. I would be so ashamed that I shoved this tyrant down people's face and called her my queen, let alone had a intimate relationship with her. If Jon has a shred of conscience he will not take the throne and will atone for his lack of leadership by leaving and installing a council that will split the kingdoms into independent regions. That Iron Throne is cursed and should be destroyed.

100% agree I guess that is the part that I am struggling more with this morning. Not with the production of the episode but with viewers reactions. Whether it was poorly written, whether it was too rushed, whether it was unexpected for some viewers the only thing that matters is what we saw on our screens. We saw a woman blind with rage, a woman who has decided that in order to feel no remorse for killing Varys she was going to pin the blame on Sansa, not her who gave the order to Dracarys, but Sansa who is not even the one who told Varys, a woman scorned because the guy she wanted had moral principles and couldn't be with his aunt, a woman who has decided before the attack what her course of action was going to be, we all saw her burn civilians and children. We saw her use her dragon to burn thousands upon thousands of innocent people. Yet some are still looking for excuses, it was Jon's fault because he couldn't bring himself to give her the D.. , it was Sansa's fault because she told the secret, it was Cersei's fault because she killed Missandei, it was Tyrion's fault because she told Varys, it was Varys fault because he wanted to spread the news, THEY, THEY, THEY, THEY drove her out of her mind with grief, it it their fault she snapped, poor Daenerys just couldn't help herself. Daenerys and only Daenerys gave the order to her dragon to burn innocent people when they had surrendered, her armies only followed her lead. She is the one responsible for this massacre, if we took pain, grief, jealousy and resentment as the perfect excuse to go about killing people then just about any crime could be forgiven. I am not surprised by her behavior as I have known what she was capable of, I am just baffled by the willingness to find excuses and try to justify her abominable and cruel behavior. The best villains in real history are the ones charismatic enough to talk about justice and change but they are the worse kind of tyrants, we are so willing to believe. This just shows me that we haven't learn from history, we still are looking for saviors in all the wrong places.

This is not the first time that Daenerys has used that tone of voice with Jon, she first did it during E1 when she mentioned that Sansa didn't have to like her but she needed to respect her or she would have to take care of it. That was a threat, Jon stood there and didn't say a word. She walked away and then they went dragon riding. This is the second time that she used that threatening voice and message to let him know that he has to do what she wants or else. I am scratching my head about this. This is what Sansa was talking about when she said that men in love are easily manipulated. it has to be. I can't imagine anybody else talking to Jon about his family the same way and him not having a visceral reaction. Then during the meeting the next day, the way Daenerys spoke to Sansa, her voice, her demeanor, her facial gestures, the teeth grinding. Jon has to be blind not to notice. Maybe he is not bling just a fool in love, but I do know that Arya didn't miss a bit of that ergo the family meeting. I LOL when I read comments that Sansa better be good girl or Daenerys will take care of her, as meaning she will Tarly her. I don't worry one bit about Jon's reaction because he probably will find a way to justify it because she is just so wonderful and selfless 😕 , but I do know that Arya will set it to rights. Daenerys is so used to yes people, she is so used to throwing a fit and people just scrambling around and doing her will. She never thought there was a person she couldn't win/manipulate her way around. One thing is to be thankful for the humanitarian help they have received and another very different is to have to grovel and lick her feet to make her happy. I am glad the Stark siblings (minus Jon) are not groveling and are worried about their pack first and foremost.

IMO Dany was in a rush to leave because she didn't want Jon to tell Sansa and Arya about his birth. The sooner they left, the less time he got. She never thought for a second how this will affect the outcome of the war to come. She is a very rushed person with poor thinking skills. That scene between Daenerys and Jon sealed it for me. First she comes all conciliatory, she is not mad anymore, she is all meekly and humble, she had a purpose in mind and it was to convince Jon to keep the secret and to swear Sam and Bran to secrecy. She used her sex wiles and almost got away with it, but then when Jon told her that he needed to tell Arya and Sansa, the sweet loving Daenerys changed, now she was pleading, she was trying to make him see that it will affect them as a couple, she said "I just want it to me like it was before between us", dangling the loving relationship in front of his nose. Once Jon let her know that his family was important and they can work together meaning he was still going to tell them the secret, then Daenerys mood changed completely, now you got to see the real Daenerys, the one who said, " We can work together, I just told you how" with that expression in her face and the tone of voice that indicated that this was not a request, it was a threat. Jon even seemed surprised for a second there before she left. That Daenerys is the one that Sansa sees, the one who manipulates, the one who uses any means necessary to get what she wants and when she doesn't get it then she threatens. No wonder her advisors and even Jon seem to be scared of her. They have spent time with her, they know her, they know her reactions when she is angry, but they have no other way to deal with it than to pacify her, cuddle her and reassure her even when she is wrong. Jon as Warden of the North should have thought about his soldiers, they needed rest. He should have been the one bringing this concern up, when it was obvious he wouldn't say anything then Sansa had to do it, instead of considering it Daenerys again reacts with puss in her face and a tone of voice that let anyone know that she is the Queen and her voice is final. I think that is when Arya made up her mind about Daenerys. I figure previous to that Area was on the fence but that probably sealed the deal.

Exactly. Viserys was the one who wanted to be the King. After he died Dany said that with her being the last Targeryan then it should be her, then she got pregnant so it would be her son. She kept trying to rush Drogo about getting ships to go to Westeros with the Dotraki but Drago was taking his sweet time. Then there comes the wine poisoned attempt on her life and that is when Drogo lost it and promised her that he will get them there and their son would sit on the Iron Throne. Up to that point it was the son they were making plans for, Drogo and his hordes started ravaging entire cities and when Daenerys raised her concern Jorah told her that Drogo needed money for the ships so that is the way they were getting it. In the book Dany has some remorse because her request for the IT has gotten so many people killed but in the show it was glossed over. It is in one of those ravaging missions that Drogo got hurt and then fell ill. Later when the dragons were hatched she kept thinking about how to reach Westeros but Jorah (her voice of reason) kept reminder her that she wasn't ready. She didn't have the soldiers, the ships, the money and the dragons were still little, she needed to bid her time. Time and time again, after every city, after every army gotten, she kept insisting she needed to get to Westeros but Jorah kept insisting she wasn't ready. It took her a while to be ready but as soon as she was then she came to Westeros. Every since the moment she hatched her dragons her single minded thought has always been to arrive to Westeros and claim the IT with Fire and Blood. She said it herself, numerous times. People decided to romanticize her and now are pretending that this came from nowhere but all the signs have been there. I would suggest to watch the series since the beginning but that won't help because D&D whitewashed Daenerys so much that she really came across as the heroine that was needed. The books however are more realistic about her slow progression into an all consuming desire to sit on the IT. D&D have no-one to blame but themselves, they probably thought they would be able to convince GRRM to change his ending but GRRM would not bulge and this is the mess they have in their hands. Had D&D been more realistic about the utter chaos that ensued every time that Daenerys conquered a territory but had no systems to support the new liberated people, then that probably would have provided some context to what is happening right now. Her own lover Dario, the one who knew her the best at the time, told her that she was a conqueror, not a ruler and he was 100% correct. Now she has let Cersei dragged her to her game and the loser as always will be the small folk. That is exactly the point that GRRM has always tried to make, the nobility always played the game of thrones and the ones who pay the price are always the people who have the least power, the ones who get drag one way or the other. I am perfectly fine with the IT being gone and a small council advising only in case of trade or disputes, for the most part each of the 7th kingdoms should be independent and eventually transition into some form of democracy.

Got betrayed by who? She lost Missandie and Rhaegal by her own arrogance and poor planning, this is nobody's fault but hers. Even Emilia has said so in interviews that Daenerys thought she was on top of the world and then was brought back to reality. If she is furious it is understandable but she should point the finger square to her chest because she did this. She played right into Cersei's evil hands. Time and time again she goes by her rushed decisions and then bad shit happens.

This is absolutely fascinating. I always thought that A song of Ice and Fire meant two people: Jon/ Ice & Daenerys/Fire but then Jon is half Targeryan so it kind of doesn't fit. Then I thought that it could mean a child from Jon & Daenerys, again the same problem occurs. Now that I read this theory I just can unsee it. All the signs are pointing to it. The Ice threat were the WW and the NK that were just defeated. The Fire part is probably Daenerys but also Cersei as both queens are playing with the lives of the people of the RK with Fire (dragon or wildfire) ergo both need to be defeated. Fascinating theory indeed. Thanks for posting it here 🙂

That would be amazing. I want her death to be as painful as possible. I can picture Arya saying: One stab, "This is for my father" Another stab, "this is for Sansa" Another stab, "This is for my mother, Robb and his wife" And then I wouldn't mind if she tells her " The last thing you're ever going to see is a Stark, smiling down at you, as you die." Please D&D make it happen.

I do hope that Daenerys , Tyron and Varys start doing a lot of PR before the battle. It takes about 6 weeks to make it from WF to KL, maybe 4 weeks on ships, but I hope Dany & team have the presence of mind to start spreading the word about Cersei's lack of honor. They need to let the small folk of KL that Cersei gave her word to help fight against the dead and then didn't honor her word, by not doing so she could have lost the whole Westeros. Cersei has done a good job of depicting Dany as the new Mad Queen so they need to counteract that propaganda in some kind of way. The more people that evacuate KL, the less victims there will be.

Tyrion has warned Dany several times about using the dragons in KL because of the left over wild fire. He has mentioned several times that if she does then she would be the queen of ashes. That has been the main reason why they waited and waited after they arrived to Dragonstone. There has to be a use for the dragons that doesn't mean burning 1 million people. Cersei basically has the people of KL hostage, if Dany uses the dragons and the whole city goes up in flames then Dany would in fact be the Queen of Ashes. I think that more strategically thinking is needed for this one. Arya's knowledge of the secret passages of the Red Keep will come in handy. I am looking forward to this battle, Cersei has said many times that she is better than her brothers and that she should have been born a man. I want to see if these were empty words or if she can back it up. Let's the battle of military strategies commence.

I agree, the old TER warned Bran about the fallacies of trying to change the course of things that needed to happen. "You think I wanted to sit here for 100 years watching the world from a distance as the roots grew through me?" We live in a society of such immediate gratification that we only see the value on the people who are warriors, soldiers, dragons, but we forget that it takes all kind of people to make this world go round. Bran's performance in my mind went perfectly okay with his mission. If he would have pulled a dagger out of his back and killed the NK himself I would have laugh because that is just not who Bran is, he knew all along it would be Arya but never told her, she needed to get to that conclusion herself.

I do agree. I am still hoping for a partnership between Dany and the Starks. Just for starters. Honestly I am really hoping that at the end all the seven kingdoms have some kind of independence and Dany acts just like the president of a council with representatives of the 7 kingdoms, there is so much good she could do. When I first heard her speech about "breaking the wheel" that is what first came to my mind, how awesome would it be for Dany to bring some kind of democracy or at least institute some changes so the Queen/ King do not have absolute power because absolute power corrupts absolutely and all that. Those were the times when I was rooting for her with everything in me. Dany went on the wrong track IMO, but I am still hoping that she goes back to her roots and even if she has to sit on the IT, at least she could be a different kind of ruler, there is nothing that would make me happier than to start cheering for her again.

This is not the world of GRRM, this is the world of D&D and time is of the essence. We saw 99% of Dotraki fighters die, same with unsullied, the dragons are hurt at best, most of the survivors are also injured. But suddenly and magically you watch next episode and that will all be fixed. In the world of GRRM, it would take them months if not a year to regroup and get more soldiers from the Vale, the Riverlands, Dorne and Highgarden, but the show doesn't have those months to spare so my gut is telling me that the dragons miraculously will recover, same with the soldiers, we will still see unsullied and dotrakies who somehow survived. We will see most of the bravest warriors ready for battle. The other kingdoms will send their soldiers to fight for Daenerys. Yara , who didn't have but three ships to make it to the Iron Islands, will suddenly come with hundreds of ships to transports Dany's army. If anything I think it would be even, my only concern is about the dragon fire. They can't use the dragons because KL is full of wildfire so I wonder what is the strategy that they will use. I hope this is Tyrion's vindication moment and he uses his skills to think about other possible solutions.

?? During the battle of Blackwater Sansa was in the Red Keep, surrounded by high born ladies who have never been/seen war. She was comforting them with songs and prayers to the seven. They needed codling and reassurances. In the Crypts of WF, she was with Northern and wildings besides Missandei, Varis and Tyrion, these people do not pray to the seven, they either pray in front of a weirdwood tree or not at all. They do not need codling, these are different kind of people. If Sansa starting singing or prayer they probably would have thought she had lost her mind or was trying to make a mockery of the situation. These are different kind of people, they are not the soft and spoiled nobility of KL, these are people who have seen war after war the last several years and are aware that this battle would probably be the end. Nobody has sugar coated anything for them because they do not needed it. When she got the dragon glass knife, IMO it meant that the battle was over, they all were going to die but at least they will try to fight back, they didn't ran from the people, Tyrion and Sansa found their people and were willing to fight back but then all stopped because the NK was defeated. If Sansa started praying or singing I would have found it incredible condescending and patronizing to the people that was with her, you have to know how to read the room temperature and IMO her actions were coherent with the kind of people she had on the crypts.

I do wish that someone would let Yara know about Theon, how brave he was, how honorable his death was, how much his presence protecting Bran helped. I want Yara to be so proud of her baby brother, I want her to know that her brother killed as many bastards as he did. I want her to know that her brother made house Greyjoy proud. My only problem is that the only one that saw was Bran and he is not the best communicator, maybe by then Arya was already around and saw everything, she could tell everyone what a hero Theon was. His death hit me hard, not sure where that came from, it surely was unexpected but still the feels were all there 😞

IMO they all have specific jobs if they were ever going to win this battle. Nobody could have done this alone. Jon's job was to make everyone aware of the huge threat of the WW, make them realize that they all needed to band together or they will all die, he infiltrated the wildings and learn about the WW, recruited the wildings, recover the North, organized the troops, and got Dany's help so he accomplished her mission. Dany's job was to provide the man power (armies) and her dragons, I can't fault her for not doing more as visibility was a huge issue and prove to be a big problem, same with Jon, even more because he hasn't practice riding a dragon too much. Melisandre's job was to redirect Arya on her path to end this battle, to help light the trenches and to assist in this war. She did terrible things but she finally accomplished her mission. Bran's job was to track the NK, knowing that their only chance to win this battle was to kill him, knowing the huge loses that they will suffer but unable to change the course of destiny. He gave Arya the valerian dagger that kill the NK so his job was done. Arya's job, which she didn't realize at the beginning, was to kill the NK, everything since season 1 has brought her to this path, the lessons that Ned got her so she could learn to use needle, her training as a faceless man, her return to WF, it all got a purpose. She got the job done. When the Stark sisters talked about how the lone wolf dies but the pack survives at the end of last season, I took it the literal way thinking about the Stark family being the pack, but I now realize that the meaning was broader , last episode they all (North, wildings, Dotraki, Unsullied, dragons, etc,) they were a pack giving the fight of their lives.

I have thought about it and have come to the conclusion that Melisandre put Arya back on the path of her destiny, here she was in the castle trying to fight some WW, but Mel brought her back to the real goal, the NK. "Blue eyes NK" , she got the message. When Arya went off running I didn't realize where she was going. I thought she was going out to kill more WW which at that point would have been a waste of time as they were multiplying like rabbits, yet her mission was on point. IMO Arya got there before the WW and the NK, she probably sneaked right abound the Godswoood tree and bid her time knowing that the NK would come for Bran. She didn't run past the generals of the NK as I originally thought, she came out of nowhere, probably one of the branches of the tree. Syrio Forel words come to mind " “Swift as a deer. Quiet as a shadow. Fear cuts deeper than swords. Quick as a snake. Calm as still water.” Arya kept repeating that (in the books) all the time in her mind, it all came to fruition last episode.

It was great, wasn't it? When Sansa and Tyrion had that moment when they finally realized that they all were going to die and were resigned to their faith, Jon being unable to kill Vision, then Daenerys trying to Dracarys the NK and it didn't work, for a moment I thought that is it, they are all going to die. There is no way, all the dead soldiers are coming back to life as WW, the AOTD is getting stronger by the second. That feel of complete and utter desolation in my bones, then there jumps Arya MF Stark and saves the day, I swear that I screamed and and jumped for joy like she was my child. My husband was looking at me like I have lost my mind. That was the only way to win this, to kill the NK. If Arya didn't get him, the battle was lost.

I think Bran's role was pivotal. I know it looks like he is just there sitting and doing nothing but all the time Bran has been the chess master. He said that Jon would be part of the big battle (bringing awareness, joining forces and looking for alliances was his role) , that Daenerys was needed (her army and her dragons) , Bran wanted Theon there (to create a distraction so the NK would be caught unaware) and he is the one who gave Arya the valerian steel dagger that finally killed the NK. I do remember when Bran gave Arya that knife, he said "You will need this" , I thought that the knife was meant to kill LF, but that was short term, long term Bran knew all along that it would be Arya who would kill the NK. When Bran warged I think he used the crows to track the NK, but I am positive he also used his powers to track Arya and see if every piece of the chess board was getting into place. Nobody wants to give Bran any credit but he knew how this was going to happen and how it needed to happen if they had any chance to defeat the NK. IMO that is why the NK had that curious look when he locked eyes with Bran, almost wondering "why aren't you crying and begging for mercy?" Bran's strength was not of a warrior, not everybody is meant to be one, his strength was to place the pieces of the chess in the correct place and make it happen, just as he did.

I was thinking the same , it is a shame that D&D didn't explore of this any further, they basically only touched the tip of it. I wonder if it would be different for GRRM. Rhaegal (Jon's dad) basically almost destroyed his dynasty for the prophesy of having a third child so he will have a three dragon head. He completely humiliated his wife Ellia by annulling his marriage and marrying Lyanna Stark, just so he could have one of his children be the PTWP, and all the time it was not going to be one of his children , it was going to be Arya Stark. If this is the case it just tells you how dangerous is to live your life on the basis of some shady prophesy.

Elia had given him a male heir, Aegon. Rhaegal might not have been crazy like his father but he was consumed by prophecies and had gotten in his mind that he had to have another child to complete the three headed dragon but Elia's delivery of Aegon was so difficult that she couldn't have any more babies. There is where Lyanna came into the picture. Lyanna was a willful girl but I often wonder how did she rationalize accepting Rhaegal. By annulling his marriage to Elia he basically made his two children bastards, she enraged Dorne and created a mess only because he wanted a third child. Honestly if I was Jon, I would be so upset to find out I was a Targeryan, not only for the history of mental illness that runs in the family but also about the fact that his biological father married his mother and thousands of people died as a result of that union.