Yolapukka

I think the mistake was the length, I think the slow burn was a good idea, it appealed to me but the two together added up to things that were unnecessary, like the scene where they discussed Call Of The Wild (I think?) in class and other sequences could have made been shorter in length and made the same point. I will say I was absorbed by the show, not bored. I'm hot and cold on Nick, on the one hand, his instincts in emergencies are good on the other his addiction makes him a screw-up the rest of the time and I have a hard time getting invested in him as a consequence. Like others, I enjoy Kim Dickens, but the character she's playing is underwritten, right now she's just a nice lady, who doesn't seem concerningly wimpy, whoever described her as "blank" nailed it. Travis is not much more than a male version of her. Alicia is even more of a blank slate, the only point where she showed more spark than "teenager, female version" was her scene feeding Nick in the hospital. I think rather than allow us to get to know who these people are, the pacing obscured their characters since so much of how character is established in Walking Dead has been through showing us how they react to danger and distress and treat others in that circumstance.

I can buy it. I've known identical twins who would never be mistaken for each other due to wildly different demeanours as well as differences in grooming and fitness. They are people you would think look like each other and could quite possibly be related but not so closely. Karen has not aged and probably appears younger than Beatrice would have at the time of death due to being a synth who hasn't actually lived through the life experiences Beatrice experienced. Beatrice seems to have been high-strung, depressive and emotional whereas Karen is controlled and has that removed quality that the synths, even the sentient ones (with the possible exception of Niska) display. She probably moves differently. It's often possible to recognize someone from their walk or gestures when they have their backs to us. It would be more logical to assume that the person you are speaking to resembles someone you used to know (and perhaps can't quite put your finger on) than leap to the conclusion that they are the incarnation of someone you know to be dead, especially if she is unlike that person in many ways. On top of which, George, at least, had a severely compromised, unreliable memory. I tend to think that unlike Leo who is the same person with enhancements that kept him alive, it's debatable whether Karen could be the same person as Beatrice. Even if she contains all the same memories and the same consciousness that Beatrice had, she was reborn a synth, has had experiences specific to that and it changes aspects of who she is. It's not clear if she has any of Beatrice actually in her. Even if she does, perhaps Elster was selective in what he used. Maybe he merely programmed Karen to believe that she was essentially Beatrice, mother to Leo, maybe not even that.

Love Donna, but I'm oddly glad that at least one person doesn't share the enthusiasm. BTW, as I recall (and I watched the episode more than once) it was definitely Donna who initiated the kiss when Hunt brought the documents that had "accidentally" been delivered to his room to her door. Prior to that Mr "Ah Luuuuuuuuve Peeeeeeeach Paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah" had been doing some heavy duty flirting and talking out of school about his marriage whether or not he was interested in more from her. He seemed like quite the gentleman in his reaction to the kiss. Then of course, we learned he wasn't. I think Gordon's infidelity is just the cherry on top when it comes to the big pile of trouble that has been plaguing their marriage for some time, It was clear from the first episode when she had to pick him up from the drunk tank in the middle of the night that they had some serious issues. Also, I wish it weren't true but a lot of people aren't up for staying with an ailing, difficult spouse, Donna gets credit from me for being willing to stick with Gordon despite myriad problems, even if she is insisting on her own terms. Maybe she'll get the idea for an e-bay type service in order to sell off all those computer parts he bought for his fizzled business. I also kind of feel having to work with Gordon is another sly bit of Karma for Cameron, who can not stand him and he returns the sentiment.

From the Toby Huss interview; One of the things that leapt out at me after the finale was just how generally humourless this show is. I don't expect it to pander with cheap laughs, but those moments of humour are what can make a character, even a difficult, otherwise unpleasant one be endearing at times or at least relateable. I don't think it's a coincidence that two of the best-liked, well-rounded characters are Donna and Bos, both of whom are written with inherent humour in Bos' broad charm and Donna's dry wit.

This is annoying as hell to me. Pete may not be a main character, but he is still an important one and those scenes go a long way to explaining his increasing antipathy to Synths. I've looked on the AMC site and if the deleted scenes are included among the "extras", I can't find them. They should be.

I tend to think he was being truthful and honest for the most part and he wound up worse off than when he had been the manipulative guy doing nasty things. I suspect being the kind of man he was with Sara was who he wanted to be at that time. She had a hard time with him reverting back to his business persona, which is fair enough, that's not the guy she's been involved with for the past year. Still I tend to think the biggest problem in their relationship was the dynamic with other people like the Clarks, Cameron and Jacob and how that chipped away at their loyalty to their relationship, once they were out of their bubble. I think they would have been in trouble even without Cameron's act of sabotage.

The episode really belonged to Donna and Kerry Bishe's wonderful, layered work. Joe is back to being a full-on loon who "might" be evil, it seems. Much as I appreciated Tom and wish we'd got to know him better because he was very intriguing for such a seemingly milquetoast guy, I was glad to see Cameron get no happy ending. Gordon is exhaustingly hapless. I don't think Joe screwed Gordon BTW, he tried to bring him in on the security company, Gordon shut down even discussing the possibility for many good reasons. Yo-Yo!!! I'll be sorry if this show is not renewed, I enjoy it. Although despite having a second season that was more consistent overall than it did the first season, I don't have quite the same sense of excitement as I did then. Mind you, last season there were parts I outright hated about the finale, like everything around Joe burning the fucking truck whereas this time, I'm more pleased with this episode overall.

Toupee glue.

I am having trouble reading through the thread because of the rage blackouts that started after I clicked links to the various articles which announced Nikki Reed joining the cast. I realize such puff-pieces are reworked press releases padded with speculation presented as fact but they are so consistent in announcing the "great" addition of Kickass! Betsy! Ross! that it seems the production thinks this sort of thing is what fans really want. It sounds less like an exciting notion and more like an indication that there may be no impulse to return the focus of the show to it's core strengths. Sleepy Hollow already has more than one kick-ass female character, characters who are also layered, appealing and believable. There is no need to twist the narrative to accommodate a high-concept anachronism with super sewing prowess. Bitch better stay in flashbacks. The Bones crossover sounds just plain stupid. I will now read though the last few pages and hope to find something that doesn't piss me off. ETA; I have read a few posts that made me feel better. The Betsy Ross as Mrs. Smith stuff still cheeses me off. Oddly enough, I thought about a Knight's Tale yesterday and wondered whatever happened to Shannyn Sossamon.

I honestly don't care whether Joe was played by Cameron or understood what she was up to and played along, he was happy to see Jacob deservedly screwed over. However, although I understand that Sara would be distressed to see her father get messed with at a business launch, it's only business and it was unethical business that was very much at the expense of people her husband had been trying to make amends with. I'm inclined to think Sara's first marriage had similar issues to what is happening with Joe. Sara and Jacob batted him back and forth to annoy each other until he'd had enough and abandoned his failing business and their antics. I'm not impressed with Sara's conduct in this, I think she doesn't want the business ties between her husband and father and yet encourages them. That she is correct that Joe's history with Cameron is a problem for them is neither here nor there, that past is a big reason why she wanted to move to California and why he had agreed to do so. It just does not make sense to me that you would want change for good reasons and then decide change wasn't enough for those same reasons. I also don't care whether or not Joe and Cameron have residual feelings for each other, unless you marry your first love very young, that's what happens, people have history and baggage. Grown-ups understand that and move forward. I think it has been telegraphed from the very first episode that Cameron and Joe are always going to be end game, but it's still disappointing to see the show believably build up credible alternate relationships, only to trash them in the penultimate episode, especially when the main problem with the pair in season one was that both of them were emotionally immature assholes and that hasn't changed enough, indeed, Cameron has become worse. I hope the plan isn't to put them back together in the finale of this season, that will be be contrived and rather nauseating. I think the show had ideas for a narrative arc this season and there is definitely something of one there, but opposite to last year when the show displayed momentum and managed to surprise in the closing episodes, it seems to have sputtered and faded instead.

..and it would have been written in part for laughs with the added bonus of some lame meta joke that gets beaten to death within two episodes but is incessantly referenced for months.

Finally!!!! a Carlivati reveal for which I have some fucks to give. I hope it doesn't get taken back immediately like most of his plot twists.

We don't know if Joe even questioned the idea of not including Jacob. We were seeing the aftermath of whatever conversation Joe and Sara had or didn't have about the presence of her father at the wedding. I'm inclined to think there was no conversation or it was perfunctory. The decision to tell him via dropping in to his office was telling. They didn't take him out to lunch or have him over to their home for dinner, in other words, after not including him in the actual event they didn't tell him in a way that involved a clear gesture to invite him into their lives as a married couple. Jacob and Sara's issues are not superficially obvious or hateful, but there seem to be problems that go beyond headstrong offspring bumping against opinionated parent.

It's beyond tired. She needed to learn a hard lesson about the realities of running a business. She truly seems to believe that using an unconventional business model excuses her from traditional business realities. She has no foresight or any understanding of the pat phrases and cliches she likes to spout about selling out and corporate tie-wearing. For one, it doesn't matter what you wear or whether you hang out after work when it comes to what kind of boss you are, it comes down to whether you treat people with respect and value their contribution as opposed to manipulating, berating and lying to them. Other than being more approachable on a superficial basis, she is much like Joe was last year.

For the most part, I tend to get a kick out of the characters of Joe and Cameron but it was (and always is) deeply satisfying to see things blow up in their respective faces given how high-handed they typically are, especially Cameron in the last episode. I feel truly sorry for all the employees who got screwed over because she decided it was time to stop playing her "no titles" game and admit she was the big boss in order to make a bad decision that no-one else found desirable or even sensible. Joe looked like he was sensing something badly off in every scene with Jacob and it really kicked into high gear in the meeting with weasel-boy. Personally I think he knew it was the smell of burnt bridges in the air. Not just with Jacob, over leaving his job and eloping, but also when he name-dropped some former IBM contacts and realized how irrelevant those connections were thanks to his own actions. The elopement was quite frankly a deeply hurtful thing to do, given that he and Sara live in the same town with her father and there is no obvious estrangement, it would have been bad even with an estrangement. Joe was a fool for going along with it and putting himself in the middle of his new bride's daddy issues. I think it's possible Jacob decided to gut Mutiny's business in the way he did when they dropped the news of the elopement because it's a way of getting at Joe without messing with his daughter. He had options that didn't involve squashing a small company simply because he could, but that was the choice he made. Gordon needs to spend the night and perhaps several nights in jail and not call Donna to bail him out unless he stops his paranoid imaginings that she's trying to ruin his business. He had crappy judgement even before he was obviously ill and that's what is driving off his employees. By the way, what the hell is he doing continuing to guzzle booze with the diagnosis he has received, it doesn't seem like a good a strategy for minimizing any further progress of the brain damage he's already suffered. This show really seems to be about the also-rans, the people that had the good ideas and knowledge that would eventually lead to somewhere big, but didn't have the business sense and good fortune to make it work out for themselves. Poor Stan. He seems like a sweet, caring guy. He doesn't deserve to be on the receiving end of Gordon's wing-nut antics. I really enjoyed the scenes with Cameron and Tom. He's a grown-up, unlike her emotionally immature self or her last bed-buddy.

I've got mixed feelings about Cameron's rejection of the offer; on the one hand, she's not wrong to reject something that will essentially gut the central premise of her company, on the other hand though, her company is potentially doomed, they could very well lose their mainframe time, and what Joe didn't tell her when he undermined Jacob's offer was that Jacob was also considering buying up the property Mutiny was renting, They could find themselves with no place to call home in a short time. On top of that, she could very well see her staff start to bail now that they've had to miss out on a very generous offer that would have put more money in their pockets and made their time at Mutiny a distinguished part of their resumes. I think either way, sell or not, Mutiny is if not doomed, certainly unlikely to be much more than a footnote, not unlike The Giant. It is overdue for her to acknowledge openly that for all her past warm and fuzzies about no titles, no structure, that she is indeed the person in charge, not just when it suits her to put on her boss hat for a few minutes, however her timing is not great. I really do be believe Joe was being genuine when he warned her off, but it was also all about Joe, his need to atone for their differences, his urge to step away from proving himself to Jacob and pursuing his ambitions in order to maintain his relationship with Sarah.

Holy crap I'm glad that I'm just an occasional viewer these days. Silly me though, I thought the show made no damn sense because my viewing habits meant I was missing important story arcs and character development. However, when I drop into this thread to sort things out I find it makes even less sense than I thought. It really is just a load of random disconnected crap and there seems to be little or no build to anything. Ron and those enabling him must be drunk or insane or something, or just incredibly lazy and doing the bare minimum needed to earn their paycheck, either possibility works. I can't even comment on the actual show.

Jim-bob is so inarticulate. He's trying to put his thoughts into words but a load of barely connected pious words and platitudes come halting out of his mouth to the point where he sounds like someone clicking a random phrase generator.

Heh, some aspects of that look are a little too familiar to me. I use a clear bite-plate at night sometimes and it messes up the look of my whole face, it looks there is something over his upper teeth. Plus, the guy looks like he hasn't had a decent nights sleep in quite some time. He's getting crazy-eyes and those bags are starting to blend in with the facial hair. Man, that's unflattering. Heres hoping they stay on missions out of country for decades and in an FU internet + JB decision all the kids wind up enrolled in IB programs. Not going to happen, the best to hope for will probably be them sending the kids to any sort of school at all.

That was fan-fic, not parody? *snort* Wow?

I would be surprised if Jessa wants the McMansion, it has lots of room for a constant stream of visiting howlers and lost girls. Her reasons for preferring the smaller house were quite transparent and her comment about avoiding the work of a bigger place seemed like a peripheral reason, if not an excuse. It's got to be especially important now that her "overburdened" mother is stressed out and needs a respite to spend more time praying over that undelivered heart for children or hanging out with her bestie.

My son took six weeks to hold up his head on his own whereas my niece was able to do so within 24hrs of birth. I don't think there is any firm rule as to whether an infant below a certain age lacks sufficient muscle tone and needs their neck supported at all times, other than in carriers and safety seats. Izzy looks a bit sleepy and gassy to me, not like his head is going to snap off.

Yay!

I think they are suggesting she's in on early versions of commercial MMORPG type games, not inventing first person shooters and as both shooters and games that were played on networks with multiple players existed in the 1970's, she is really very far from being on the crest of originating the concept. The show is depicting the notion that she's on the leading edge of commercialization. As to succeeding in commercializing them... they are severely limited by the technology available, it's costs and Mutiny is a mess. I want to see more employees jump ship, especially since Cameron handles people so badly. I do hope we see Yo-Yo back, he's my favourite of the secondary cast. The fact that he took his stuff and left does confirm that he no longer lives there and Cameron/Mutiny took over the lease at some point. I like the addition of Tom even though something about the character reads as a little off. For one, his character interests me even when his secrets turn out to be fairly milquetoast, like working an entry-level night job rather than some Machiavellian plot to take over Mutiny. Well, so far anyway. Agreed that the "kill ET" game sounded fun, maybe if they stripped that concept of the copyrighted content and used original characters they could have gone with it. It did make me laugh though, because even as someone who was only dimly aware of gaming at the time, I remembered that an ET game for Atari was reputed as one of the worst games ever in terms of gameplay and was a massive commercial failure. As far as that goes, the Bee-keeping game that was proposed last season sounded an awful lot like the kind of play that makes tamagotchis and Farmville successful. I don't like where the show is going with Donna being pregnant at the same time Gordon is showing early symptoms of a serious movie-of-the-week illness. It's far too soapy for me. Good thing that at least both actors seem well-capable of carrying and possibly elevating the material. Still, my reaction is bleah. I think I might have more enthusiasm for Joe's enthusiasms if he didn't react like a scolded child every time someone called him on bullshit and using his connections to get ahead. Same goes for his acting out by doing what he wants anyway. At least he's no longer playing apartment baseball when he has a bad day. He was going to get glass splinters in his face with that pastime. ("You'll Put Your Eye Out" rule) Overall I found the episode hugely enjoyable, even if most of the characters can annoy the crap out of me.

I've loved this show even when it's been badly flawed, but I think I would be sorely tested if they went for a twist like this one, of bringing in a new character to pull Joe-style BSC Burn-it-all down stunts. I don't know to what end it would be. To make Joe seem less awful by some bait and switch comparison? Maybe it's less polarizing to have someone who is intended as a villain, not an anti-hero and is not important to the ensemble as a whole to set mayhem in motion, but I really don't think the way to fix the "Joe problem" some viewers have would be to bring in another version of Joe. I'd rather Tom have a point to his presence that exists on it's own merits, than watch him get the writing that would have gone to Joe last season. I like the idea of Gordon's careless attitude in presuming to fix Mutiny's problems unasked nearly destroyed them because he can't see past his own arrogance. Especially because he's always disliked Cameron, always felt himself better than her and her sloppy ways. It makes him crazy that anyone takes her seriously , especially two people he cares for in entirely different ways.