Philip: The Defector, And Then A Question Mark

[Umbelina]

Thanks for that @sistermagpie!  Nice post!

Wow.  So Philip may have

Spoiler

lost a brother as well, or have one out there someplace?  Cool.

Philip also told a story about the time his boss didn't pay him what he owed him, and his mother going over to the boss's place, and she came home with ALL of the money owed Philip.  She was tough too.

I agree that it looks like Philip was in a much worse situation than Elizabeth, I can't stop thinking Gulag.  When was Philip born again?  1942 or something?

Meanwhile, I hope you post your theory about Misha and Elizabeth in his new thread. ;)

[gwhh]

The man of 1000 accents:

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by gwhh

[Erin9]

On 3/24/2017 at 7:05 PM, sistermagpie said:

One bit of information gleaned from IMDB about the scene, which I'll put under a spoiler tag:

  Reveal hidden contents

The characters are listed in IMDB as Philip's father, Philip's mother, 6-year-old Philip and 8-year-old Pyotr. That other little boy must be 8 and named Pyotr. Sure sounds like a brother.

I was thinking again about those flashbacks and Elizabeth's and here's the other thing that occurred to me. There's the line in the premiere "Nothing scares those two." "Everything scares those two."

Both P&E are motivated by fear all the time, but what scares them most was probably programmed in early, which is why it still motivates them. With Elizabeth, the fear is the fear of surrender--as Zhukov said to her flat-out. That fear needed dialogue in flashbacks to explain. The scenes she remembers or talks about--her mother telling her gifts come with strings attached, her mother saying her father isn't honored because he was a coward, her mother telling her to go serve her country, her descriptions of Smolensk in ruins and wanting to be one of its defenders... It's all about that. That's not a complicated fear, but it is a slightly intellectual one.

When Philip and Elizabeth talk about Alexei, Elizabeth talks about being very aware of her mother sacrificing so she could eat--again, that theme of how you have to be willing to sacrifice. She always ate her food because she knew she was lucky to have it. She was very aware of the hardship. But she had the food. Her mother was a steady, if flawed, protective presence. Her apartment in flashbacks isn't shocking at all like Philip's was. So her experience of deprivation, it seems, was that food was hard to get and you had to be grateful for it--but there were also things that you didn't do to get it. Like her mother with the party official. Better to go with less food than get it that way.

Philip's story about food, in response to Elizabeth's, is about his mother serving soup that was really just hot water. In other words, in his story he doesn't really have the food. He's had two flashbacks to childhood. In one he's physically threatened by people who are stealing his food, and he winds up killing them to protect it and himself. In the other there's no story, it's just about the sensory experience of that abject poverty.

This makes sense with Philip's attitude toward America too. For him, you look for the place where you're safe and have your basic needs met. He'd adjust to life in Russia again, sure. He'd probably get really good at finding ways to get food or make do with the food he could get. But fear of not having food is probably a real motivation--the fear of physical danger. Turning down physical comfort isn't as noble to him as it is to Elizabeth. I think part of him can't believe this good life is going to last.

Philip's flashback also has three other people in it--they're not identified for sure but the tableau seems like that of a mother, father and two sons. We know dad died soon after this flashback, since Philip seems to be around 6. Philip has mentioned his mother, but not in the present tense. No references to any tapes she may have sent early on. Elizabeth says her own mother told her to go be an Illegal. Philip obviously disagrees with that decision as a parent (and as Elizabeth's husband) but he says nothing of his own mother's reaction. And if that other kid is his brother, this was our first hint that he even existed. So that scene not only shows what his life lacked, but showed everything valuable in it that he may have lost. Which again, would fit logically into his priorities: protect your family, keep them together, get food, get safety.

It's a different motivation from Elizabeth--but not one that's automatically out of sync with hers since Philip does seem to be able to see the Russian people as people to protect. If he lost his real family he could have started thinking like that in a really practical sense. But it would definitely explain his very different response to Alexei's rants. To Elizabeth he's whining, traitorously choosing what's easier over the purer righteousness of the cause. But to Philip "Why can't we grow our own wheat?" is one of the most important questions to ask as a Russian citizen. They have the land, they have the workers. If they're doing something wrong, why wouldn't they fix it? It's the essence of how socialism is supposed to work, right?

It also makes him even more of a parallel to Tuan who happily asks for leftovers from Bennigan's and lost his family. He lost his family to war, which kind of links him with both Jennings. The war deaths link him to the ruined Smolensk and her father dying in war, losing his entire family might link him to Philip.

Your whole post is amazing, but I'll focus a bit on the bolded part.

While I have no doubt that Philip started out pretty idealistic, dedicated to The Cause, I don't think he was ever the True Believer that Elizabeth was/is. (I think this in large part explains Elizabeth's relationship with Gregory too. I think at the time she couldn't see herself loving someone who wasn't just as die hard a believer as she was.) I don't think he ever thought it trumped everything, all the time. His scenes with Irina seem to bear both out. When I watch Philip, I look at him as more of a Russian patriot first, rather than a Soviet. That's not to say he doesn't believe in it, but it's not the most motivating factor for him now. (Possibly it never was. It may ALWAYS have been about protecting his homeland from the enemy first and foremost.) He seems more motivated by what he thinks will help and protect his people. I do think that and Elizabeth/the family are why he does what he does-though retirement would clearly be his first choice at this point. When he met Yousef and he asked what Philip was doing here, he replied that, "My people are dying in Afghanistan." I think that was the honest, simple truth. (And his son being there.) When Gabriel is trying to get Philip to leave Martha and meet with William, he appeals to Philip's desire to protect his people from potential war. It's the same now with Philip asking about why they can't grow their own wheat. I think for Philip instead of ideology, the most important thing has been the welfare and protection of the Russian people. We never hear him talk about ideology first; Elizabeth has been the one spouting Marxism. That said, he still finds it difficult to reconcile what he does in the name of that protection. One of Philip's most dominant character traits is his protective nature- of his kids- including Mischa, Elizabeth, Martha, his homeland/people. He's very protective and loyal to the people he cares for. Maybe it's because, as you said, he lost so much at a young age. I hope we get that explanation soon. I do think the truth about Philip's past is coming. It has to. 

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Erin9 said:

While I have no doubt that Philip started out pretty idealistic, dedicated to The Cause, I don't think he was ever the True Believer that Elizabeth was/is. (I think this in large part explains Elizabeth's relationship with Gregory too.

Yes, I agree. And also remember when he was talking to Yousef he started to explain what motivated him and he talked about looking around at the world and seeing people suffering and asking himself what he could do about it. He was brought up to believe that The Cause was the way to do this, but it was just a means to that end. He seems open to better ways if they come up. I don't think he sees himself as a traitor to his country for questioning the way things are done. Like you said, Russian and Soviet aren't always the same thing.

I did really like last season the times where Gabriel got him on board with things by bringing up the vulnerability of the Russian people--and Elizabeth did that too when she talked about the US making the bio-weapons for them. But of course that doesn't keep him from being protective of Martha, who's just a nice person who's lonely and wants to take care of orphan children. Or Kimmie, who's a lonely child herself. The one thing he asked about Mischa was whether he was alone.

I do really hope that we get to unpack his past and see how this all comes together. They've held it off for so long, and now it seems like they've almost structured the whole major spy plot with the wheat to get him to deal with it in ways no other plots made him deal with it before. Remember back in S2 when he was stuck with the Israeli agent who took all night to get him to remember liking the cold. When he came home he asked Elizabeth about icicles and say "we used to have swordfights with them." That may have been the first oblique reference to his family. (And if so, I don't even think they told Matthew Rhys who he was talking about!)

[Umbelina]

It could be all of that, and it would make complete sense.

It could also simply be that the KGB offered him a way out of the rather obvious hell that was his childhood, and he jumped at it.

[kokapetl]

Zhukov said Elizabeth was explicitly chosen for having total faith in the cause (and probably being a resilient genius with a high pain tolerance). What did Philip have to offer? A genius like Philip could have become an officer, a bureaucrat, an academic. Why would he commit to the directorate S program, and would the directorate S program commit to him?

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

It could also simply be that the KGB offered him a way out of the rather obvious hell that was his childhood, and he jumped at it.

I think that was something Philip probably definitely was thinking about his job. And if his family was dead by then he'd also have a reason to think there was no reason for him to stay.

Though I do think that his relationship to the job he's doing he's doing is about helping vulnerable people like his family. We see how little time it takes him to care about sources, how even sometimes he turns away from people he sees as being doomed (like Kate), and how he's gotten inspired by Elizabeth or Gabriel talking about protecting Russians. But I do think he was probably ambitious as a young man to get away from that.

2 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

Zhukov said Elizabeth was explicitly chosen for having total faith in the cause (and probably being a resilient genius with a high pain tolerance). What did Philip have to offer? A genius like Philip could have become an officer, a bureaucrat, an academic. Why would he commit to the directorate S program, and would the directorate S program commit to him?

I wouldn't be surprised if, like I said, Philip had no family by that point and saw this as giving him something after all he'd lost. As to why they picked him, I'd love to know. Presumably he showed talent in important areas like languages. He's also such a chameleon I wonder if they noted that and saw him as being valuable. People like that tend to be really good at spies--but also not as trusted because of that same thing.

[qtpye]

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 6:01 PM, Kokapetl said:

What did Philip have to offer? A genius like Philip could have become an officer, a bureaucrat, an academic. Why would he commit to the directorate S program, and would the directorate S program commit to him?

Would someone as poor as Phillip have those options?  Despite the preaching of Marx, from what I hear the old Soviet Union was filled with cronyism and a good old boy network, where a few privileged families got a majority of prestigious postings.  Maybe this was his best option?  I honestly do not know?  Also, even though he was deep into his training at this point, he admitted he feel in love with Elizabeth the minute he saw her.  I think he would have followed her to the gates of hell and that was what the Centre was hoping for, matching them together.

[Umbelina]

From what I've been told there was very little, if any, "choosing" of your occupation.  You were told what to do and did it.  That was one problem with their food shortage, they assigned many to be farmers, assuming anyone could do that menial job.  That, and worker indifference and lack of training contributed to the mess.

My friend, for example, was told he would be a physician, probably because his father was.  He hated it, did it, but stopped as soon as he escaped.

They could have chosen Philip for any number of reasons for the KGB undercover gig, and not only wouldn't he even think of turning it down?  It was a very prestigious thing to have chosen for you.  We can fan wank many reasons they chose him, but I assume the show will eventually show us.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Would someone as poor as Phillip have those options?  Despite the preaching of Marx, from what I hear the old Soviet Union was filled with cronyism and a good old boy network, where a few privileged families got a majority of prestigious postings.  Maybe this was his best option?  I honestly do not know?  

If Philip was good enough to catch someone's attention from out there in Tobolsk, I assume they would have wanted to use is talents for something even if it turned out he wasn't right for Directorate-S. A lot of people who went through the program would not make it through. (In reality I think people are often picked for this program at Universities because they were good at languages but they were given the option of saying no at any point in the training.) So I don't think it's like Philip could just go into anything he wanted because he was a bright kid, but if he was a good student and was noticed for that they probably wouldn't want to waste him if he turned out to not be right for this specific job.

Seems like Elizabeth knew right away that she was at least being chosen for the KGB. If Philip got the same offer I can't imagine him thinking twice because I assume it would seem like his only way out--and an unexpected honor. If his family was gone by then he'd have even more reason to never look back. But it would make sense if they didn't know at the start that they'd be Directorate S for sure because the Centre wouldn't yet know if they would be good enough. Philip seemed to be planning a life with Irina. So he maybe assumed that yes, KGB was his job and to get into something else would probably be difficult if possible. 

I'm not sure what exactly to make of Philip's story about falling in love with Elizabeth at first sight. I believe he did have some moment like that, but it's one he's now describing over a decade later when he and Elizabeth are really in love with each other. So while I think he did actually pledge himself to her right away, there's still probably a little "make it real" in there. I think it would have been possible for him to not have liked her after that, in which case he just wouldn't think of the story that way.

[qtpye]

31 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I'm not sure what exactly to make of Philip's story about falling in love with Elizabeth at first sight. I believe he did have some moment like that, but it's one he's now describing over a decade later when he and Elizabeth are really in love with each other. So while I think he did actually pledge himself to her right away, there's still probably a little "make it real" in there. I think it would have been possible for him to not have liked her after that, in which case he just wouldn't think of the story that way.

Love at first sight gets eye rolls from me, but as you said he is probably saying that more due to their current relationship then what he felt then.

I remember when they first met.  He came in, saw her, looked very pleasantly surprised and started talking to her.  She barely looks up at him (she has just been raped and does not want to be paired up) as he enters.

I do think he loves her now and she is the woman he wants to be with forever.

[sistermagpie]

Just now, qtpye said:

I remember when they first met.  He came in, saw her, looked very pleasantly surprised and started talking to her.  She barely looks up at him (she has just been raped and does not want to be paired up) as he enters.

 

I think that had been a few years earlier, actually. Remember she had a Russian accent then and wasn't in Moscow yet. But still, I agree. I think he even walks out with his hand out and she just looks away. And for her, the rape still wouldn't be that long ago. 2 years maybe at most. 

I rolled my eyes a lot the first time he said it was love at first sight because I just thought...oh, please. Enough with this. But it's become more interesting to me when I think of it that way.

[Erin9]

7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I think that had been a few years earlier, actually. Remember she had a Russian accent then and wasn't in Moscow yet. But still, I agree. I think he even walks out with his hand out and she just looks away. And for her, the rape still wouldn't be that long ago. 2 years maybe at most. 

I rolled my eyes a lot the first time he said it was love at first sight because I just thought...oh, please. Enough with this. But it's become more interesting to me when I think of it that way.

Did he say that? I thought he just said he'd felt something he never had before or since. Maybe so though. 

Did I hear Philip right when he was talking to alexei about how he got into flying? I could have sworn he said his dad made him a plane sounding exactly like the simple one we saw him playing with in his flashback. Someone speculated his dad made it for him; I think he confirmed it. 

[sistermagpie]

10 hours ago, Erin9 said:

Did he say that? I thought he just said he'd felt something he never had before or since. Maybe so though. 

 

He didn't use those words, but iirc it was in the context of Gabriel talking about the difference between the lightning bolt of romantic love and something built up over time, and Philip was saying that he did feel the lightning bolt. I'd have to watch the conversation again to remember exactly what Gabriel was getting at --in fact I think at the time I wasn't quite sure. But Philip seemed to be challenging him with his own lightning bolt comment so maybe he was saying that for him it wasn't just a case of him coming to love her through familiarity or whatever.

10 hours ago, Erin9 said:

Did I hear Philip right when he was talking to alexei about how he got into flying? I could have sworn he said his dad made him a plane sounding exactly like the simple one we saw him playing with in his flashback. Someone speculated his dad made it for him; I think he confirmed it. 

I noticed that too! And I was at least one person who figured his dad made it for him. Brad's story was slightly different, I believe. He said he had "one of those balsa wood planes" which I think come in kits. So Brad might have been saying he made it himself--I can't remember if he said his dad got it for him or made it for him or helped him make it. But I did immediately connect it to the true little plane he did have, which seemed to be made of sticks woven and tied together.

One of the many cool things about that flashback is we can't be sure exactly what was sparking it in his mind. There's the obvious famine part. But it's also possible that playing a pilot made him remember that he had this toy plane. So it might have been one of those things where we, the audience, are looking at that flashback and seeing Philip remember this shocking poverty that's our own focus in the scene. But Philip already knew the conditions in which he grew up. He'd been thinking about them already because of the wheat story. But maybe the flashback, for him, was about him having this sudden, clear memory of that little plane. It's the first thing we see, iirc. A close-up of Little Philip with the plane.

Sort of like back in S2 when he spent the night with the Israeli agent who kept talking about icicles to get him to remember the cold. When he got home to Elizabeth he asked if there were icicles on the trees in winter in Smolensk. She says yes (of course) and then asks why he was asking. Philip shrugs like he doesn't know, then says, "We used to have sword fights with them." He doesn't say who "we" is. He could be referring to himself and the other boy in the flashback. (That boy is a big presence in the flashback after all, since his hammering continues throughout--wonder if it's possible he made the plane.) If so, it could be a similar pattern where the thing Philip is remember is playing with the icicles like he was playing with the plane. So the trigger is happy memories of his family.

Elizabeth's flashbacks tend to have their own pattern, after all. They're usually about something her mother seemed to be teaching her, especially about being self-reliant. So for her it might be like at times she feels insecure or whatever she remembers her mother telling her to be strong.

[Sarah 103]

On March 24, 2017 at 6:56 PM, Erin9 said:

The Midges has given me hope that we're finally going to find out about Philip's past. I hope it's really compelling after the long wait....and that it's soon. They've made it clear Philip really doesn't like to talk about his past. There must be a reason. 

I agree. At first I thought it was cool that we had this strong contrast between knowing a great deal about Elizabeth's life pre-KGB, but knew next to nothing about Philip's life pre-KGB. At this point, I'm getting impatient and want more of Philip's backstory. I don't want odd flashes. I want a solid flashback with a short story or him to narrate something true to Paige or Elizabeth. 

On March 27, 2017 at 8:11 PM, Erin9 said:

I think for Philip instead of ideology, the most important thing has been the welfare and protection of the Russian people. We never hear him talk about ideology first; Elizabeth has been the one spouting Marxism. 

I completely agree with this. Philip is doing this because he believes in Russia and wants to rpotect the welfare and interests of the Russian people. It think this part of the reason Philip gets along o well with Stan. Philip understands him. Philip can recognize and understand a patriot even though they're on opposite sides. Elizabeth is motivated by her desire to work for the Soviet System. She has a strong belief in the ideology behind the system.

On March 30, 2017 at 3:21 PM, sistermagpie said:

But it would make sense if they didn't know at the start that they'd be Directorate S for sure because the Centre wouldn't yet know if they would be good enough. Philip seemed to be planning a life with Irina. So he maybe assumed that yes, KGB was his job and to get into something else would probably be difficult if possible. 

That makes sense to me. Both of them knew they were going to be working for the KGB, but not which department/division. The Centre probably would not have known until they went through some training and saw each future agent's strengths and weaknesses. 

[Erin9]

On 3/31/2017 at 9:26 AM, sistermagpie said:

He didn't use those words, but iirc it was in the context of Gabriel talking about the difference between the lightning bolt of romantic love and something built up over time, and Philip was saying that he did feel the lightning bolt. I'd have to watch the conversation again to remember exactly what Gabriel was getting at --in fact I think at the time I wasn't quite sure. But Philip seemed to be challenging him with his own lightning bolt comment so maybe he was saying that for him it wasn't just a case of him coming to love her through familiarity or whatever.

I noticed that too! And I was at least one person who figured his dad made it for him. Brad's story was slightly different, I believe. He said he had "one of those balsa wood planes" which I think come in kits. So Brad might have been saying he made it himself--I can't remember if he said his dad got it for him or made it for him or helped him make it. But I did immediately connect it to the true little plane he did have, which seemed to be made of sticks woven and tied together.

One of the many cool things about that flashback is we can't be sure exactly what was sparking it in his mind. There's the obvious famine part. But it's also possible that playing a pilot made him remember that he had this toy plane. So it might have been one of those things where we, the audience, are looking at that flashback and seeing Philip remember this shocking poverty that's our own focus in the scene. But Philip already knew the conditions in which he grew up. He'd been thinking about them already because of the wheat story. But maybe the flashback, for him, was about him having this sudden, clear memory of that little plane. It's the first thing we see, iirc. A close-up of Little Philip with the plane.

Sort of like back in S2 when he spent the night with the Israeli agent who kept talking about icicles to get him to remember the cold. When he got home to Elizabeth he asked if there were icicles on the trees in winter in Smolensk. She says yes (of course) and then asks why he was asking. Philip shrugs like he doesn't know, then says, "We used to have sword fights with them." He doesn't say who "we" is. He could be referring to himself and the other boy in the flashback. (That boy is a big presence in the flashback after all, since his hammering continues throughout--wonder if it's possible he made the plane.) If so, it could be a similar pattern where the thing Philip is remember is playing with the icicles like he was playing with the plane. So the trigger is happy memories of his family.

Elizabeth's flashbacks tend to have their own pattern, after all. They're usually about something her mother seemed to be teaching her, especially about being self-reliant. So for her it might be like at times she feels insecure or whatever she remembers her mother telling her to be strong.

That's probably right. The only thing I really remember is him saying something about his dad in the context of a toy plane as a child, and I immediately thought of the toy plane Philip was playing with in the flashback. If nothing else, I think it indicates Philip's family is very much on his mind these days since he's suddenly incorporating them into his stories.

Wow. I hadn't thought at all about the fact that the first focus of the flashback is him with the plane. He could have been playing with a toy car, for instance, but nope it was a plane. It makes sense that pretending to be a pilot would make him think of his own toy plane. He's already been thinking about his impoverished background a lot. It would make so much sense for Philip to be focused more on his family and a plane that was made for him/with someone and less about the poverty he grew up in that moment. He's so family oriented. And, next thing you know, he incorporates his dad and a toy plane into his cover story. I was amazed that after ALL that pushing from the Israeli spy, all he could get out of Philip was that he liked the cold, followed by his happy story of icicle fights. It could be a family focused memory, too. It was certainly something happy. I'd like to know who he was referring to now, especially since we saw another kid, probably his brother,in the flashback.  I don't know if the writers will think to bring it up though; however,  their attention to detail and what they bring back from prior seasons has always impressed me. Plus ,I think they've likely known all along what Philip's past was. So everything he's said was intentional and laying the groundwork- minor as it's been. (Philip's silence has told its own story anyhow.) The icicle fights were a big deal in that Philip finally shared one tiny detail-and a happy one at that- about himself. That and it was one of the loveliest scenes between Philip and Elizabeth. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by Erin9

[Umbelina]

I caught a few more details of the hovel while watching and pausing on Amazon. 

Very high small windows, so looks like a basement of some kind?  No electricity, cooking over a fire, I'm pretty doubtful they even have running water since his mother was washing dirty rags in a basin, not the sink, no sign of a sink.  Very little furniture, and his big brother banging away at that paint chipped bench/small table.  So Philip's brother was older, not younger?  Still  can't tell what the "food" was, rotten potatoes could be it, pretty dangerous eating those really.  Big brother missing in the second one.  Raggedly blanket over the inner doorway.  Cheap red plate that seemed to be thin, possibly painted tin.  The "plane" seemed mostly sticks, held together with bits of rags.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Umbelina

[qtpye]

10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Very high small windows, so looks like a basement of some kind?  No electricity, cooking over a fire, I'm pretty doubtful they even have running water since his mother was washing dirty rags in a basin, not the sink, no sign of a sink.  Very little furniture, and his big brother banging away at that paint chipped bench/small table.  So Philip's brother was older, not younger?  Still  can't tell what the "food" was, rotten potatoes could be it, pretty dangerous eating those really.  Big brother missing in the second one.  Raggedly blanket over the inner doorway.  Cheap red plate that seemed to be thin, possibly painted tin.  The "plane" seemed mostly sticks, held together with bits of rags.

Thank you for spelling out that scene.  It is one thing to hear about grow up impoverished in Siberia, but seeing it brings it to a totally different level.

[sistermagpie]

13 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Very high small windows, so looks like a basement of some kind?  No electricity, cooking over a fire, I'm pretty doubtful they even have running water since his mother was washing dirty rags in a basin, not the sink, no sign of a sink.  Very little furniture, and his big brother banging away at that paint chipped bench/small table.  So Philip's brother was older, not younger?  Still  can't tell what the "food" was, rotten potatoes could be it, pretty dangerous eating those really.  Big brother missing in the second one.  Raggedly blanket over the inner doorway.  Cheap red plate that seemed to be thin, possibly painted tin.  The "plane" seemed mostly sticks, held together with bits of rags.

Were the windows small? I was focused on the curtains and couldn't tell what they were like. I was almost surprised to see any windows at all. I thought that too about the lack of electricity, oven (it looked like a fire, not an oven) and no running water. On IMDB the other kid seemed to be identified as being 8 and he looked about that much older. I was surprised they didn't look colder in that second scene, what with it being winter. Obviously they had no central heating and the place was probably drafty. 

The food was black bread, but moldy according to the props master.

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Were the windows small? I was focused on the curtains and couldn't tell what they were like. I was almost surprised to see any windows at all. I thought that too about the lack of electricity, oven (it looked like a fire, not an oven) and no running water. On IMDB the other kid seemed to be identified as being 8 and he looked about that much older. I was surprised they didn't look colder in that second scene, what with it being winter. Obviously they had no central heating and the place was probably drafty. 

The food was black bread, but moldy according to the props master.

Thanks about the bread.

Yeah, the small windows were up high in the wall, kind of like windows in mostly underground basements.

The curtains were very long and lacy, maybe from better days?  They were probably once white, but very dingy now, probably from all the smoke for heat from the fire.  There were shelves put together from a lighter wood, looked like the cheap pine slats off to one side, but IIRC they looked empty.  It was very dark.  Daddy was handsome and looked defeated, mom was in an oversized baggy maroon sweater.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

30 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Daddy was handsome and looked defeated, mom was in an oversized baggy maroon sweater.

I checked out the actors on IMDB just to see how much younger they looked in their headshots than they did in the scene. Especially defeated dad.

[sistermagpie]

On Twitter Joel Fields is doing a virtual tour of Philip's childhood home:

https://twitter.com/joel_fields/status/850389944589852672

We can see the pail, jug, bare lightbulb (so there's electricity). stick-like utensils and basket full of...hay? Not sure what that's for. Also tattered blanket and maybe something else hung up.

Don't know if he's going to put up more pictures. He says it's a tour so it seems like he should!

Yes! We have a bedroom portion of the main room!

https://twitter.com/joel_fields/status/850403607203778560

Living room:

https://twitter.com/joel_fields/status/850421520568549377

And the dining room - more twig theme here.

https://twitter.com/joel_fields/status/850434705841434625

I count four cups!

Edited April 7, 2017 by sistermagpie

[Umbelina]

Perfect!  Thanks for posting that.  I didn't buy the hi def version on Amazon, so this is much better!  Oh, wait, I didn't realize he was showing the sets!  Cool.  I don't think we actually saw all of this on screen.

The dining room where they enjoy bread made with rye, meal, bran & sawdust. :-) #TheAmericans

Edited April 7, 2017 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

On more, the oven:

https://twitter.com/joel_fields/status/850454223779135488

Inspired by references from Russia consultant. Now I need to re-watch and see if that's the thing his mom was using to heat up the bread. I assume it must be, but this looks much more like an actual oven rather than a furnace with a big fire in it.

Quote

Perfect!  Thanks for posting that.  I didn't buy the hi def version on Amazon, so this is much better!  Oh, wait, I didn't realize he was showing the sets!  Cool.  I don't think we actually saw all of this on screen.

I think this is definitely new, most of it. We've barely seen these parts. It looks a lot cozier in these pictures.

Edited April 7, 2017 by sistermagpie

[Umbelina]

That window is lower than the ones they showed in the episodes, didn't see that one at all that I remember.

I think the twigs are simply for the fire, hopefully they have more wood than that, his stuff would only be kindling and would burn out very quickly.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

And a detailed shot:

I love that they have a little matryoshka for the homey touch--and a wooden bear. 

I know they often have a lot of details we don't see in a shot, but the fact that there's a whole lot of different spaces here makes me hope we're going to see more scenes on this set. 

[Umbelina]

When I see things like that I wonder if they are left overs from better days, the same with the lacy curtains (not shown in these photos) that have become more dingy from the fires.

[SlackerInc]

29 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

And a detailed shot:

I love that they have a little matryoshka for the homey touch--and a wooden bear. 

Yeah, this suggests something a little different from the way the home has been interpreted thus far.  There was a lot of talk contrasting it with Elizabeth's childhood home, along the lines that Philip's was just a hovel, with no sense of anyone even making an effort to have pride in it, make it look nice, etc.  Just bare-bones existence.  But these details show it's a little more than that.

BTW, when I was in the Soviet Union in 1990 and visited people's homes, I was struck by how the exteriors and common areas looked like the worst slums you might find in an inner city housing development tower (like on The Wire, for instance), but the interiors were very homey and well-kept, with lots of little knicknacks and antiques.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

When I see things like that I wonder if they are left overs from better days, the same with the lacy curtains (not shown in these photos) that have become more dingy from the fires.

 

1 hour ago, SlackerInc said:

Yeah, this suggests something a little different from the way the home has been interpreted thus far.  There was a lot of talk contrasting it with Elizabeth's childhood home, along the lines that Philip's was just a hovel, with no sense of anyone even making an effort to have pride in it, make it look nice, etc.  Just bare-bones existence.  But these details show it's a little more than that.

Yes, the little we saw didn't really catch any of the personal touches--although the contrast I saw between the house and Elizabeth's was more just that it seemed like the standard of living was a lot higher. I thought at least the plane Philip had in the first flashback showed someone putting care into it. And come to think of it, Mom putting the bread on a plate on the table shows the same kind of instinct for dignity.

It looks like a very poor home that has a few nice things in it that are well taken care of. Maybe they were inherited and saved, or just things that they'd make a point of buying or trading or scavenging in some way when they could. It actually seems more realistic that they'd have some little things that are nice. They would have been living at a time where there wasn't as much disposable stuff, I imagine. That is, the extras that they do have look even fancier because their high ticket/decorative items aren't going to be a gaming system or a souvenir from Key West. It's going to be a nice plate or silverware or whatever--maybe wedding gifts passed down in the family, always treated with care. It's a time when things were made to last. The furniture is old, but sturdy as opposed to a poorer home today, which might have stuff from Ikea.

Also it looks like this is a one-family living place with their own oven, as opposed to Elizabeth's communal apartment. Which I think would make sense given where they are--but that also makes it more primitive. I remember someone once talking about the ugly Soviet-style apartments in Siberia and saying yeah, the houses were maybe cuter...but the ugly blocks had heat so no contest.

All of this totally would fit with Philip, though. A home where there's very little and there's a struggle but homey because of the family that lives inside it.

Edited April 8, 2017 by sistermagpie

[sistermagpie]

I was thinking more about the whole idea of Philip's memories and...I don't know if I'll be able to express those thoughts, but here goes.

From the start of the show we have the context of Elizabeth's upbringing and important flashbacks that explain why she thinks it's so important to be 100% loyal to the Cause, even if she seems to be covering up a desire to be loved for herself. The question with her always seems to be whether she'll embrace that aspect of herself before it's too late, or continue to choose the Cause over her loved ones. We, the audience, often seem to be able to see the things she's denying even when she can't.

With Philip, he keeps choosing Elizabeth despite not liking what he's doing. Since season 2 there's been this escalating disintegration as the work gets "harder" for him. There's a lot of question of when he'll "break" and what that would look like.

But here's what I was thinking...if you really look back at his arc it may turn out that it's less about breaking than it is about recovery of himself. Like yes, at the start of the series he seemed happier, but a lot of that might have been because he's so good at "making it real." He was playing a role, he just didn't see any need for a real self besides that.

"Who are you" is a recurring refrain with Philip. Viola says "I know who you are, you're the devil." Baklanov called him a monster, said he wasn't a man, said "whoever you once were" they trained it out of him. Yousef and others said "Who are you?" to Philip when he appeared in some spy mode, and his answer was usually vague. Martha said it to him too. The Israeli agent spent a whole night trying to talk about the person Philip "really" was and ultimately questioned if he could really know--"Are your children your children? Is your face your face?" etc. Both Philip and Elizabeth often look into mirrors, but I feel like Philip does it even more than she does, and for more mysterious reasons. Philip, despite being the "nice one" doesn't seem to have strong relationships the way Elizabeth did.

That nightlong interrogation with the Israeli led to two revelations for Philip that were technically minor but felt major--that he liked the cold and that "they" used to have sword fights with icicles.

Other than that he's usually avoided talking about his past the way Elizabeth did. For a long time the only story he voluntarily offered was the one about the bullies (which he says made him feel "strong" in the moment). But he was also drawn to EST, a form of psychotherapy that's about knowing yourself. Elizabeth pointed out that EST wasn't helping him in that he was miserable, couldn't eat, couldn't sleep. But Philip still felt it was helping him, as still drawn to it. Now finally, in season 5, he's getting these intrusive memories that feel like they have something to tell him, but even he doesn't know what they are.

What I was thinking was that these memories might center Philip so that he's less wobbly which might change the dynamic with Elizabeth a bit. This is the part that's hard to describe, especially since I can't predict what it would be. It just seems like it would make him more of a solid force. The seasons of crumbling actually leading to the core person underneath that's a source of strength. The finger-rubbing technique is supposed to be about "where you come from" but Philip's always seemed more cut off from that than Elizabeth. For her it's very specific and personal--her mother, her city, the history of invasion, her father. Philip seems to have strong emotions down there somewhere, but he doesn't seem connected to them. Very often when asked why he's thinking about something in his past his first answer will be "I don't know" or "I don't remember."

This season he's having intrusive memories, sharing them with Elizabeth, talking to Tuan about his past. Mischa, his Russian son, has arrived. (Though I get the feeling that if Philip did cut himself off from painful early memories Irina may have simply been an early mask he escaped into rather than a symbol of his true self.) I don't know where I'm going with this, but I just feel like it would make sense to turn this kind of emotional corner in the fourth act. Like along with Philip being the one who's always been equally strong as a parent, have Philip be equally strong as a Russian drawing strength from his own past. He'd no longer be cut off from his roots, something that always made him seem a bit ghost-like.

Or I could be COMPLETELY wrong about all of this. It's just something I thought after Lotus 1-2-3 which had Philip having intrusive memories and also hitting a rock-bottom-ish place less than halfway through the season.

[Umbelina]

Philip's really already decided, he wants to bail, and has from the first episode.

It all hinges on Elizabeth changing her mind. 

What could make that happen?  I just don't think she will ever shirk her duty, not for something like love of Philip, it's not in her DNA.  Would she shirk it to save his son Misha?  I don't know, she apparently has no interest in saving her own children from this life of lies and deceit.  She may be in denial about the danger side of things, or that Paige would ever have to do honey traps or kill people, but Philip isn't.  "Something always goes wrong."

Misha though, in spite of Gabe's unexplained pie in the sky ideas about sending Misha "home" and "taking care of him?"  Misha at BEST would be in prison for the rest of his life after his anti war talk and escaping.  I'm pretty sure both Philip and Elizabeth would realize that, and Claudia most certainly does.  Gabe's either cracking or in massive denial.

The more I see this playing out, I think Elizabeth would rather die than betray her country.  Early on she wanted the kids with Philip, and insisted on taking what she thought was the more dangerous assignment to ensure Philip would be the one to survive.  As it turned out, the trap was at the tape, and Philip had to rescue her. 

I don't know how this will play out, but I don't think Elizabeth survives it.  Still, that would be very problematic for Philip and the kids anyway, it wouldn't take long to identify her and lead back to Philip and the kids...and I don't think Philip wants to drag them back to Russia.  Even if he did want that, if Misha's still in the picture?  He can't, not and protect him.  Dragging 3 kids he would certainly be easily caught by the KGB if he tried to run, as Irina did.

A lot hinges on the Misha story.  If he's thwarted, killed by Claudia, and Philip or Elizabeth somehow finds out?  It will play out one way.  If Philip or Elizabeth doesn't find out?  It will play out another way. 

I have a hard time picturing Philip defecting if Elizabeth is still alive.  Once she's dead?  It would probably be too late to defect, unless her body disappeared, or was burned up, destroyed, so he wouldn't be identified.  Even then though?  Stan lives across the street.  Jane Doe shows up right when Elizabeth is suddenly not around?  Stan will put it together.

[Sarah 103]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I was thinking more about the whole idea of Philip's memories and...I don't know if I'll be able to express those thoughts, but here goes.

From the start of the show we have the context of Elizabeth's upbringing and important flashbacks that explain why she thinks it's so important to be 100% loyal to the Cause, even if she seems to be covering up a desire to be loved for herself. The question with her always seems to be whether she'll embrace that aspect of herself before it's too late, or continue to choose the Cause over her loved ones. We, the audience, often seem to be able to see the things she's denying even when she can't.

With Philip, he keeps choosing Elizabeth despite not liking what he's doing. Since season 2 there's been this escalating disintegration as the work gets "harder" for him. There's a lot of question of when he'll "break" and what that would look like.

But here's what I was thinking...if you really look back at his arc it may turn out that it's less about breaking than it is about recovery of himself. Like yes, at the start of the series he seemed happier, but a lot of that might have been because he's so good at "making it real." He was playing a role, he just didn't see any need for a real self besides that.

"Who are you" is a recurring refrain with Philip. Viola says "I know who you are, you're the devil." Baklanov called him a monster, said he wasn't a man, said "whoever you once were" they trained it out of him. Yousef and others said "Who are you?" to Philip when he appeared in some spy mode, and his answer was usually vague. Martha said it to him too. The Israeli agent spent a whole night trying to talk about the person Philip "really" was and ultimately questioned if he could really know--"Are your children your children? Is your face your face?" etc. Both Philip and Elizabeth often look into mirrors, but I feel like Philip does it even more than she does, and for more mysterious reasons. Philip, despite being the "nice one" doesn't seem to have strong relationships the way Elizabeth did.

For her it's very specific and personal--her mother, her city, the history of invasion, her father. Philip seems to have strong emotions down there somewhere, but he doesn't seem connected to them. Very often when asked why he's thinking about something in his past his first answer will be "I don't know" or "I don't remember."

Elizabeth is someone with a past who is also connected with her past and draws strength from it. Philip has a past but is only now starting to connect with it. Whether this turns out to a be a good thing or a bad thing is yet to be seen. Philip draws strength from his current situation mainly Elizabeth and his responsibility to his kids. 

38 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

The more I see this playing out, I think Elizabeth would rather die than betray her country.  Early on she wanted the kids with Philip, and insisted on taking what she thought was the more dangerous assignment to ensure Philip would be the one to survive. 

I don't know how this will play out, but I don't think Elizabeth survives it.  Still, that would be very problematic for Philip and the kids anyway, it wouldn't take long to identify her and lead back to Philip and the kids...and I don't think Philip wants to drag them back to Russia. 

Once she's dead?  It would probably be too late to defect, unless her body disappeared, or was burned up, destroyed, so he wouldn't be identified.  Even then though?  Stan lives across the street.  Jane Doe shows up right when Elizabeth is suddenly not around?  Stan will put it together.

The mental image that came to mind: Philip is the first to find out that Elizabeth is dead. Maybe he was with her when it happened and he manages to escape without being seen, maybe he founds out a different way. Philip, holding a six pack, knocks on Stan's door and asks if Matthew's around. Stan says that Matthew is spending the night at a friend's, and asks if everything is okay with Paige. Philip says they need to talk but only if Stan promises full immunity/witness relocation and that nothing bad will happen to Henry and Paige. Stan is confused. He makes phone calls in another room. Philip can't hear him but we can. Stan thinks that Philip has stumbled across something as a travel agent, someone trying to flee country or a smuggling/human trafficking ring. Stan makes a strong case that Philip's a good guy and not the type to cry wolf. If he's this shaken/rattled, it must be something big. The agency agrees (because it's TV Land and that's how things work). Philip proceeds to tell Stan everything as music begins to play. We see thier faces, we don't hear what's being said. 

[Umbelina]

Oh man, I would hate that.  I want to know what happens, not wonder if Philip actually gets immunity, and certainly I wouldn't want to miss that entire conversation with Stan and Philip to hear ending music!  I'd be pissed!

Quoting myself here.

Quote

A lot hinges on the Misha story.  If he's thwarted, killed by Claudia, and Philip or Elizabeth somehow finds out?  It will play out one way.  If Philip or Elizabeth doesn't find out?  It will play out another way.

I really think finding out what happens with Misha is key to how this will all end.  He's huge in this story/resolve.  Philip can't run if Misha is alive and in the USA, no matter what happens with Elizabeth.  It doesn't rule out Philip defecting though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegals_Program

After all, illegals were still here in 2010....maybe Philip and Elizabeth just continue on after the fall? 

Edited April 8, 2017 by Umbelina

[Sarah 103]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

Oh man, I would hate that.  I want to know what happens, not wonder if Philip actually gets immunity, and certainly I wouldn't want to miss that entire conversation with Stan and Philip to hear ending music!  I'd be pissed!

It would be two part finale. That would be the end of part one. We would find out happens in part two. The big question-will that conversation or some version of it play out. Will Philip confess of his own free will? Will Stan ever figure it out? We still have another season so I'm guessing a big part of the final season will be Stan trying to put it together. 

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Sarah 103 said:

Elizabeth is someone with a past who is also connected with her past and draws strength from it. Philip has a past but is only now starting to connect with it. Whether this turns out to a be a good thing or a bad thing is yet to be seen. Philip draws strength from his current situation mainly Elizabeth and his responsibility to his kids. 

Right. I tend to lean towards him finding strength in it because it seems like the strength he finds in his family is one that he learned from his first family in Russia. That is, he had a loving family and he's somewhat recreated it. It's his own personal experience of the country instead of the official version he's supposed to fight for.

53 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I don't know how this will play out, but I don't think Elizabeth survives it.  Still, that would be very problematic for Philip and the kids anyway, it wouldn't take long to identify her and lead back to Philip and the kids...and I don't think Philip wants to drag them back to Russia.  Even if he did want that, if Misha's still in the picture?  He can't, not and protect him.  Dragging 3 kids he would certainly be easily caught by the KGB if he tried to run, as Irina did.

I don't have any predictions for how it would play out, but I actually lean towards the opposite almost because "what Philip would do" in this case seems like such a no-brainer for everyone, including Elizabeth. Elizabeth doing what she always aspired to do, sacrificing everything for the Cause, is more devastating, especially because we know that that same Cause is going to abandon her. A Philip who outlived Elizabeth would have done his best and failed and would try to go on, go back to playing a role. Elizabeth outliving Philip is Elizabeth once again getting what she wanted and realizing she got it all wrong. The fact that Elizabeth seems to rely on an outcome where she dies heroically and all is right with the world makes it seem like not what would happen.

[Sarah 103]

4 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

That is, he had a loving family and he's somewhat recreated it. It's his own personal experience of the country instead of the official version he's supposed to fight for.

I totally agree with this. Family is the key. All of his flashbacks this season involve family and thier home. Philip is motivated by loyalty and love for his family and his country, which is completely different from Elizabeth's motivation. He's not motivated by ideology the way Elizabeth is. Elizabeth would die for the cause, Philip would die to protect those he cared about. 

[Umbelina]

Some people also try very hard to create a good family when they come from a bad one as well, so as of now, we really don't know what his family was like, other than very poor, and hungry, with a few nice things, which I still think probably came from a less desperate past.

The thing is, Philip isn't really protecting his family.  He isn't protecting Paige, he barely notices his son with Elizabeth.  He's just doing whatever he can to hold on to Elizabeth.

Both of his kids are suffering, and he has no contact with his first son, other than the lies Gabe tells him.

Pussy whipped comes to mind much more than "good family man."

He continues to kill, and risk both his and his children's well being, for a cause he doesn't believe in.  In some ways, he's much worse than Elizabeth.  At least she's doing it all for something she honestly believes in, she's patriotic and committed. 

Philip only does it to hold on to her, he'll kill, devastate his daughter, whatever it takes, just for that.  How long can he live with that?  Stay tuned.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

He continues to kill, and risk both his and his children's well being, for a cause he doesn't believe in.  In some ways, he's much worse than Elizabeth.  At least she's doing it all for something she honestly supports.

I don't think it's that black and white. Philip definitely puts Elizabeth first, but that's natural for several reasons. She's his partner. She's the one he's in it for life with. The kids are supposed to grow up and have their own lives. That was always his plan. He wants the kids to have a choice. But he also sees the family as one unit. He's keeping them all together, I think, in his mind, not sacrificing the kids for Elizabeth.

Back in The Colonel, Elizabeth said she should take the harder assignment because she thinks he's better with them. As he puts it "It looks easy." Philip does not agree. He thinks the kids need their mother. He probably grew up in a world where fathers were few and far between. Mothers are more important, and he thinks Elizabeth is a great mother and he trusts the kids with her completely. He's lost the faith that what he's doing is making the world better, but he's obviously still able to be motivated by protecting the people back home as well. A lot of the old way of thinking is still there despite his doubts. I think those ideas may have come together for him when he decided they should tell Paige about the wheat assignment.

I don't think Philip sees the big problem here as the kids not having their middle class American emotional needs met, he sees the problem as survival, and that means keeping their cover. He lives in a constant state of fear in that sense. He himself basically laid this out to Paige in talking about his past. You don't think about some other situation you'd rather be in, you work and you keep people alive. He probably doesn't see himself at all as not noticing Henry. He probably does feel completely inadequate when it comes to protecting Paige, but even there I think his perspective is warped like Elizabeth's is.

[Umbelina]

I disagree.

Philip knows exactly what he's doing to Paige, and what will happen.  He has no illusions about that.  "Until something happens, and something ALWAYS happens."  His quote when Elizabeth tried to say Paige wouldn't ever have to do the things they do.  He knows damn well she would probably end up doing the same kinds of things they have to do.  Seduce that boss to get a promotion, kill, or at least target that guy for others to kill so a vacancy opens up for her to fill, or simply have to kill someone who catches her making copies or taking photographs of secret information.  Only Elizabeth lies to herself about that, Philip knows.

So, he isn't choosing "family" and he's not some great family guy.  He's choosing to murder people, including completely innocent people, not for family, not for country, but only for Elizabeth.

I took more of this to their joint thread, but back to Philip here.

No wonder he's going to EST and having flashbacks.  He's continuing to do this shit for a seriously inadequate reason.  To keep Elizabeth.  He's really not that different than Martha in this situation.  He knows it's wrong, he doesn't want to do it, but he does?  Why?  Because of his devotion to Elizabeth.  The exact same reason Martha did despicable things for Philip.

Sure, Elizabeth has feelings for him as well, but does that justify his behavior?  For me?  No, not at all.  I don't think it does for him either, and I think that's another reason he's cracking.  His inability to even connect with Henry, and realization he has no clue about his son in this last episode is just as significant as Paige's utter despair about her life now.  Add in the realization he killed a completely innocent guy (again?)

Philip needs to man up and do what's best for his kids, and for himself.  He's not a true believer, he's certainly got plenty of information about what life is like in the Soviet Union now, and not just from the news, William, the Russian family, hell, in a few cases even Gabe has told him how fucked up it is. 

So what's he fighting for?  Family?  No.  Country?  No.  Conviction?  No. 

Elizabeth.

Is she enough to ruin his kid's lives, his own life?  So far, and that is pathetic.

[qtpye]

This is pure speculation on my part, but I am going to spoiler it, in case it is correct.  I believe Phillip will find out:

Spoiler

That his father was killed by the KGB for refusing to do something horrific.  It was obvious the family was under the mercy of the Centre and was treated badly.  This might the final nail in the coffin for his loyalty.  if he finds out his dad was killed by the KGB (though I have no idea how, maybe he gains access to his personal file...he is a master spy) and that they turned away Misha, not even the love for Elizabeth will keep him in the game.

[sistermagpie]

So any thoughts on possible ways Philip's dad died? I don't think we need to use spoiler tags for speculation. Whether or not it turns out to be correct, it's just speculation. Does Philip remember how he died? He says he knows basically nothing about the guy except what his mother told him...which might not even hold up to scrutiny in itself. Seems like the possibilities are:

Killed by his bosses for disobedience a la Philip.

Natural or accidental death

Suicide, maybe brought on by stresses of the job--he certainly doesn't look happy in flashbacks when he brings things home

Murder by the people who hate him

And meanwhile, what happened to the brother? He'd obviously told Elizabeth about him already since she didn't bat an eye when he mentioned him.

Btw, I believe Gabriel when he says Philip was not tapped for his job because of his father--he wasn't an important person like Oleg's dad, not doing this kind of work. Plus they would have needed to do a ton of psychological tests on Philip the individual to see if they could trust him. His dad taking a job as a guard of other prisoners (hell, maybe he once was a prisoner) because he needed the money wouldn't be enough.

I wonder if this will change the way Philip interacts with Alexei. Seems he'd have a hard time not questioning him on his father's experiences in the work camps, since Philip's never seen a scab he wasn't interested in picking at lately!

[kikaha]

Didn't Gabriel tell Philip something along the lines that his family connection was an added bonus for his spy work?  If the KGB killed/tortured Philip's father -- or even distrusted him -- I would think that might be the kiss of death for his offspring as well.  So I doubt the Soviets took the life of P's father. 

[RedHawk]

Thanks, Umbelina and Sistermagpie for those detailed interior shots!  Wow, so much more detail than I could pick out in the broadcast version, which was so dark. 

One thing no one seems to have mentioned either in this thread or the episode thread is that when Philip's father enters their home with the sack of bread, there is a shot of the entrance hallway that shows a pair of crutches propped against the wall. You can see them from the side in the bottom-most photo Umbelina posted on April 7 above. 

So perhaps Philip's older brother had something wrong with one of his legs or feet? My first thought was "Tiny Tim"! 

[sistermagpie]

32 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

One thing no one seems to have mentioned either in this thread or the episode thread is that when Philip's father enters their home with the sack of bread, there is a shot of the entrance hallway that shows a pair of crutches propped against the wall. You can see them from the side in the bottom-most photo Umbelina posted on April 7 above. 

 

That's right! Now that you say that I totally remember those crutches and wondering if I they just looked like crutches or--totally believable--it's another clue.

[Erin9]

On 4/25/2017 at 3:04 PM, RedHawk said:

Thanks, Umbelina and Sistermagpie for those detailed interior shots!  Wow, so much more detail than I could pick out in the broadcast version, which was so dark. 

One thing no one seems to have mentioned either in this thread or the episode thread is that when Philip's father enters their home with the sack of bread, there is a shot of the entrance hallway that shows a pair of crutches propped against the wall. You can see them from the side in the bottom-most photo Umbelina posted on April 7 above. 

So perhaps Philip's older brother had something wrong with one of his legs or feet? My first thought was "Tiny Tim"! 

I missed seeing that! Very observant. That's a good theory about his brother. 

I just hope we get answers. We're running out of time. For all the character focus this season, the show seems pretty content in giving us very little about Philip.

We've learned- they were extremely poor, his mother lied about his dad's job, his dad was a low level KGB prison guard, people around town probably hated him and his brother based on his dad's job- may have led to the later bullying, he had an older brother that Elizabeth clearly knew about, Philip is good at math, and like most people, he wanted to know he was picked for his job because someone saw something special in him- not just based on his family. For the latter, even though I think it's a normal thing, I find it interesting that Philip felt compelled to be absolutely sure why he'd been chosen. 

I really want to know what happened to his parents and his brother. I feel like we've been waiting forever- ever since Philip yelled at Paige that his father died when he was 6. I did notice on imdb they gave a name for Philip's brother. I don't think we've heard it yet. It gives me some hope we're going to continue exploring Philip's life. 

Even though Elizabeth talks about herself a lot, is it mostly a variation on a theme. There's not a lot of new anything there. 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Erin9 said:

We've learned- they were extremely poor, his mother lied about his dad's job, his dad was a low level KGB prison guard, people around town probably hated him and his brother based on his dad's job- may have led to the later bullying, he had an older brother that Elizabeth clearly knew about, Philip is good at math, and like most people, he wanted to know he was picked for his job because someone saw something special in him- not just based on his family. For the latter, even though I think it's a normal thing, I find it interesting that Philip felt compelled to be absolutely sure why he'd been chosen. 

Yes, and almost none of this stuff gives us a sense of who Philip was as a child. As you said, Elizabeth's past is mostly variations on a theme because that's so central to who she is. Pretty much every flashback gives a piece of the puzzle to what motivates her and why (even if we the audience get it more than she does) and things that shaped her. With Philip he's still so very detached from these facts they don't connect to him yet. He suddenly says that he was the subject of hostility from a young age, but we can't yet say something like "Oh, that's why he's such a people-pleaser/chameleon and ready to erase his own personality for others."

I could believe this stuff is all buried, but so far we're just as disconnected from it as Philip. The fact that he's remembering it means it probably was important to him as a kid. But it makes me think how in general, this is something that puts Philip at a disadvantage as a person. Elizabeth's past is weaponized at this point--she's honed it herself to use as a source of strength. It would be great if the all those repetitions people people asking Philip variations on "Who are you?" and even little things like people like Deirdre saying he's not "assertive" are leading up to this being the source of strength he needs. Because it does seem like he needs something to grab onto here to get some leverage and fight. At the start of the show he was more on an even keel, but that was maybe because he could believe in his Philip Jennings-persona more.

All this, btw, is making me compare Philip to Don Draper in my head, two characters I usually don't think of as being similar.

[White Sheep]

Was philllip also 18 when he was recruited by the KGB?  Or was it latter in life for him.  It seemed to be latter for him.   From the flashbacks  

E said she was 18 when she joined KGB and 25 when she come to the USA. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by White Sheep

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, White Sheep said:

E said she was 18 when she joined KGB and 25 when she come to the USA. 

 

1 hour ago, White Sheep said:

Was philllip also 18 when he was recruited by the KGB?  Or was it latter in life for him.  It seemed to be latter for him.   From the flashbacks  

i think she said she was 22 when she got to the US and maybe 17 when she joined the KGB. I don't see why Philip should have been any older than Elizabeth when recruited. His age as Philip Jennings, while not his real birthday, was stated as the same as Elizabeth's in the first season. He didn't seem to have more life experience than she does.

[MisterBluxom]

On 2014-03-12 at 10:59 PM, Kierstyn said:

I find him the most compelling character on the show.  I'm not sure exactly why... and I haven't seen all of season one, so I know I missed a lot.  But there is just something about the layers of his acting. I don't know how coherently I can put this...  But you see the masks he wears while doing his job.  And then you see him take them off, and just when you think he's being "himself", then he peels off another layer, and you never know where the character exists, or if he is just a succession of masks who doesn't know who his true self is.  That's a lot to have conveyed in the 8 episodes I have seen so far.  I'm impressed.

I would like to suggest that you do whatever is required for you to get the rest of the S1 episodes and watch them all. I suggest this to you knowing just how much more you are likely to enjoy this show after seeing all the episodes in the first season. That is my conclusion after thinking about just how much less I would enjoy this show if I missed seeing somewhere between one-third and one-half of the first season.

Good luck and Happy viewing!  Ain't this show spectacular?

On 2017-04-29 at 9:04 PM, White Sheep said:

Was philllip also 18 when he was recruited by the KGB?  Or was it latter in life for him.  It seemed to be latter for him.   From the flashbacks  

E said she was 18 when she joined KGB and 25 when she come to the USA. 

Given that all of us have the gift of hindsight, isn't it really better that we all have seen every single one of the episodes from the first season?

Edited May 1, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Razzberry]

On 4/8/2017 at 3:55 PM, Umbelina said:

The thing is, Philip isn't really protecting his family.  He isn't protecting Paige, he barely notices his son with Elizabeth.  He's just doing whatever he can to hold on to Elizabeth.

Both of his kids are suffering, and he has no contact with his first son, other than the lies Gabe tells him.

Pussy whipped comes to mind much more than "good family man."

Nail=head.  Other than early-onset Alzheimer's, it's the only explanation that makes sense.  At one point Phillip was firmly against any recruitment of his daughter.  Not only is she completely ill-suited for such a life,  which Gabe saw within minutes, but what kind of parent wants their child to commit treason and murder people for a living?  Yet Phillip seems to have forgotten his objections and looked shocked at Gabe's parting advice.