Season Two Talk

[Cotypubby]

Finally binged the entire series!

Since no one answered this and several people were asking, it was the shell casing for the marked bullet that was ejected from Barry’s gun that the large Chechen found on Esther’s body. Remember Barry had put it as the first bullet in the gun and when he shot Esther it was the first time he had shot since it had been loaded. Either it landed on Esther’s body by happenstance or Hank found it afterwards and placed it there. Most likely it just landed there by happy accident.

[aghst]

Been doing a rewatch ahead of season 3.

Been enjoying it but just got to the episode where Losch, the sad sack detective in season 1 whose wife had left him manages to flip Fuches, to make him get Barry on tape to admit to killing detective Moss, who had figured out that Barry was the killer.

Fuches tries to warn him that his place is wired but Barry wants to get off all his guilt off his chest.

Losch comes out with a gun, says “I got you!”  But then says if you get rid of the guy who took my wife, you’re free.

Barry:  What!?!  
 

What a terrific moment, shows how great the writing and acting is.

[Iseut]

On 3/22/2022 at 10:08 PM, aghst said:

Been doing a rewatch ahead of season 3.

Losch comes out with a gun, says “I got you!”  But then says if you get rid of the guy who took my wife, you’re free.

Barry:  What!?!  
 

What a terrific moment, shows how great the writing and acting is.

Bill Hader in this scene is just amazing. You can see him at first terrified and then resigned and almost relieved as he realizes Loach has him dead to rights, and then when Loach reveals his real motivation, there's that little pause right before the comically shocked "...WHAT?!?" Roll credits. It's so, so, freaking good. 

[paramitch]

I binged season 2 and thoroughly enjoyed all the conversation and discussion here, as always!

I think my favorite thing about this season was how it explored intimacy  in terms of what people choose to share about themselves, and in terms of how truthful that sharing is (and how that affects perception, liking, love, respect, from others). For instance, how the different versions of Barry's military experiences changed the hearers' opinions of him, and how Barry used those for his own benefit with both Gene and the group. Sally does something similar with her Sam story (more on that farther down).

And it's also a conundrum for Fuches and Hank in their different ways as well -- the stories they present to people, versus who they actually are. Hank wants to be seen as a strong and terrible leader, but he's really honestly a sweet guy who just wants to serve tapas (and marry the cartel leader he's obviously in love with, right?). Fuches has been gaslighting Barry that he's been Barry's salvation when in actuality he's been using Barry all along... but then we realize that Fuches has also been selling HIMSELF that lie too. I absolutely believe Fuches loves Barry, and his jealousy of Gene is what causes him to take action here in vengeance against Barry here. Fuches's love for Barry is like that of the world's most toxic parent.

I'm kind of neutral on Sally, but I thought the Sally/Sam abuse stuff was perfectly depicted this season, and I liked the additional self-awareness it brought to Barry as well. The scene where Sam lured her to his room bit by bit was genuinely suspenseful and terrifying. It's a genuinely common thing that women are frequently hurt or killed because they ignore the little voice inside that is telling them to RUN because they are afraid of being impolite (see also The Gift of Fear). Sally doesn't want to be rude to Sam, she feels like she needs to be "nice" to him (to a man who once beat her and choked her to unconsciousness!). So that was very true for me and very well-done. And terrifying. I was sincerely glad she was able to walk away unharmed from that.

One thing I would add -- as an unsuccessful playwright/scriptwriter who has worked a lot in the entertainment industry over the years, the acting/entertainment stuff drives me bonkers, because it is both 100% spot-on, and yet also occasionally (increasingly) a bit ridiculous.

What's spot-on for me: The frequent narcissism and unself-awareness by Gene and especially Sally and the other acting students -- sometimes presented as harmless and cute, but other times overpowering and cringeworthy.

The acting class scenes are all wonderful fun, and Gene is perfect as played by Winkler. I love that Gene is another Hollywood narcissist who's kind of an asshole/sweetheart combination whose life revolves around  the craft of acting as also a kind of zen religious calling. And I do absolutely buy that Gene is one of those people who had decent success on something (a show or two that pay residuals), enough that he hobnobbed with some stars and made enough of a name for himself that he could publish an autobiography and parlay that into an acting class. It's believable to me that he has a nice house and even a vacation cabin. But I also get that the constant uncertainty of the actor's life makes him constantly chasing those class fees (preferably in cash) and being cheap when he's not wooing someone.

I also love the way the show demonstrates that yes, in Hollywood, success is just as often due to silly little moments versus talent -- who you know, whose friend's brother ran into your agent, who heard about your audition at lunch, who needed a 6'2" guy for a scene, etc. (There's a great similar riff on this in the James L. Brooks movie I'll Do Anything, where a guy goes in for a screen test and meanwhile, his little girl lucks into an audition walk-in and instantly gets booked for a TV show.)

What doesn't work for me: A lot of stuff with Sally this season, although I went with it because the show made it amusing if not 100% believable.

First and foremost, I was intensely annoyed at Sally going from performing a scene from her life to thinking she's a writer now. I hate this trope and am so tired of seeing it, and it's constant (even La La Land did it). Actors are not suddenly great writers on a whim, although granted, it's in character that Sally would assume that she is because of her complete self-absorption.

It's one thing for her to think it, though, but the show seemed to buy into it as well. I did like what the revelations about Sam showed us about how Sally has evolved (and lies to herself in self-protection), even though I thought the way the scene kept changing was a little too writerly for the person we've seen Sally presented as being.

So there's that. I also don't buy that Sally being a massive tool about her scene to her agent on the phone (turning down a major audition to mess around with an acting class exercise!) wouldn't result in anything but a "Bye, Felicia," versus the agent driving all the way out to the theatre and catching Sally's "brilliant" scene, deciding to support and promote her, and getting her (and her entire class) a 400-seat showcase for a bunch of improv sense-memory scenes? I mean, really? 

But the kicker for me was the fact that this stuff THEN got Sally a big offer to headline a TV show with a Ryan Murphy type whose show might be insulting, misogynistic dreck but it would also 100% be (1) buzzworthy and (1) a probable hit.

Sally has been painted all along as being absolutely obsessed with becoming a star. Her turning down that show was unbelievable to me. As was the fact that the agency didn't drop her immediately. Agents make money if the actor makes money. Sally turning down a major TV show should have instantly resulted in a goodbye, not accolades and more pandering. So it's weird to me that this show, by people who undoubtedly know the industry, are leaning so hard into some unbelievable stuff for Sally.

I still love the show, and this season ended on a fantastic and suspenseful note. I'm excited to see what Season 3 brings.

Edited June 21, 2022 by paramitch
Barry not Batty (which is my cat's name, LOL)

[EtheltoTillie]

On 5/26/2022 at 5:34 PM, Iseut said:

Bill Hader in this scene is just amazing. You can see him at first terrified and then resigned and almost relieved as he realizes Loach has him dead to rights, and then when Loach reveals his real motivation, there's that little pause right before the comically shocked "...WHAT?!?" Roll credits. It's so, so, freaking good. 

I am new to Barry, and I’m up to episode 6 of season 2. I thought that scene was great then followed by the next episode which may be the most creative example of any any filmed product I have ever seen. How did they think of those twists and turns in the fighting?  The choreography was astonishing.  The acting?  Bill Hader always nails it with fear and self loathing and yet also genius instinct for self preservation. You read it all on his face. The costuming, where he looked like a deranged Spider-Man at the beginning. Then going through the rest of the episode with that huge red blood stain on his face. It made him look like some king of wild creature, yet he did it without self consciousness. Did this win an Emmy of some kind?  

[EtheltoTillie]

On 4/22/2019 at 1:40 AM, shapeshifter said:

I frickin love this show! 😍

 I am so glad I did not see that coming. Not any of it. I guess I should have — including Barry going all My Lai massacre in Faluja —but I didn't. When Barry was confronted by Janice's partner, at first I kept thinking Barry was going to get the gun away from him and shoot him like we'd seen him do before. But he didn't. And then the detective really lost focus and made it so easy for Barry to do. But he didn't. And then the frickin' "What!?!" bit. Wow. As NoHo Hank would say, "So great," but as when NoHo says it, it really doesn't mean anything. Still. So. Great.

BTW, did we love NoHo Hank's get up? With the floppy hat and the scarf and the sunblock? OMG. I just realized that's what I was wearing this week on my walks. Except my sunblock isn't so opaque, heh. NoHo is such a little old lady.

So even Fuches decides to turn over a new leaf this week. Huh.

Now I really want Janice to come back from the dead with amnesia. 

I love this too. Just starting to catch up three years late. I didn’t pick up on that Loach stuff either. 

[EtheltoTillie]

I just want to add something interesting about the fight episode:  Bill Hader is supposedly a cinephile, and the portrayal of the little girl was clearly meant as homage to the famous Trilogy of Terror episode where Karen Black is tormented by an evil doll. 

 

[Amarsir]

Finally got around to Barry. Finished season 2 and it's fun reading over everyone's episode-by-episode reactions.

Through the first season and a half, I had two major problems with the show.

1) I felt we were supposed to like Sally but didn't. And I know I'm not alone on that. But the way season 2 ended perhaps we're not supposed to like her. Or at least, the show is aware of her flaws and isn't simply using her to represent the good life in Barry's dichotomy.

2) Barry simply wasn't a very good hitman. I don't mean the moral conflicts because that's a premise of the show. And they've consistently shown him to be a great shot. But he doesn't do enough research, acts impulsively, isn't cautious for the unexpected, and isn't very good about evidence. (Leaving the tooth is a prime example.)

Yes that still made him relatively good when surrounded by comedy. But this show is about Barry's conflicts: famous vs anonymous. Emotionally connected vs dispassionate. And "good hitman vs bad actor," torn between the job he wants and the job he's good at. (This last is stated explicitly in the post-show commentary after episode 1.) And when I saw Barry being careless it undermined that.

But using the pin as evidence of Chechans is brilliant, and something he'd have had to come up with quickly while panicking. He cleaned up all the detective's notes, even if hiding in a dress is comical. Taking out the monastery was full-on badass. That's enough to make me buy that he could be amazingly good if not feeling conflicted.

I also felt 2 balanced comedy and drama better than 1 (except for the slapstick episode). The show proved it could surprise both ways: the classmate's story about aliens gave way to a heartfelt story about his dad. And the other classmate's story about a horse was played straight so they could throw away her actual tragedy as a joke. That's how most of the season felt - not knowing which way it would go but being pleased either way.