S05.E01: Episode 1

[Jacks-Son]

2 hours ago, Nolefan said:

And the way that Drake seems to almost baby talk doesn’t help. He seems like a boy,

Would rather Drake be on the screen than Sam. Talk about a one-track mind.  

2 hours ago, Pickles said:

Morwenna's eyebrows are distracting. Very microblade looking.

It’s not her eyebrows I find distracting, it’s her eyelids or something. She has cow eyes, if there’s such a thing.  Doe-eyed??? Something makes her eyes look droopy all the time, like she’s half-asleep.  

[Haleth]

Well of course Andrew Gower plays a homicidal lunatic. Has he ever had a role where he wasn’t unbalanced?

22 hours ago, magdalene said:

Shouldn't Demelza's dog have passed by now from old age? Not that I want him to - I was just momentarily hit over the head by the realism fairy.

Maybe she names all her dogs Garrick.

21 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Perhaps Elizabeth left a Will with a paternity claim included. 

She died trying to prove Val was George’s son. I doubt she’d leave any paperwork to the contrary. 

Yeah, feeling sympathy for George is not easy but his delusions are making his uncle crazy too. So there’s that. 

[Jacks-Son]

12 minutes ago, Haleth said:

She died trying to prove Val was George’s son. I doubt she’d leave any paperwork to the contrary.

On the contrary, she died trying to perpetuate the false belief that Valentine is George's son. She died trying to induce a premature birth to simulate her last full term birth of Valentine. I suspect she only wanted to provide for Valentine's financial future by having him be a Warleggan instead of a Poldark.  However, if she truly wanted to do something more valuable to Valentine than money, she would have left some proof of his paternity.  Something to hope that his Pa, is not that horrible man that treats him like shit, but that man with the ready smile who seems to know of him for some reason.

[nodorothyparker]

Elizabeth was trying to establish a pattern of early births to throw George off the track of believing Agatha's claim that Valentine was full term and thus couldn't have been his.  But beyond that she was a deeply conventional person.  The last thing she ever would have wanted to do was leave any sort of evidence laying around that Valentine should have rightly been a bastard but for English inheritance laws that deemed any child born within a marriage the legal offspring of the husband.

37 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Well of course Andrew Gower plays a homicidal lunatic. Has he ever had a role where he wasn’t unbalanced?

He played Bonnie Prince Charlie on Outlander as the most uselessly incompetent fop to ever half ass a rebellion against the English crown.  It's a pretty entertaining performance even if just for the line reading of "Mark me, I will take my own life if I am forced to go live in godforsaken Poland."

[Jacks-Son]

12 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Elizabeth was trying to establish a pattern of early births to throw George off the track of believing Agatha's claim that Valentine was full term and thus couldn't have been his.  But beyond that she was a deeply conventional person.  The last thing she ever would have wanted to do was leave any sort of evidence laying around that Valentine should have rightly been a bastard but for English inheritance laws that deemed any child born within a marriage the legal offspring of the husband.

I realize the circumstances that led to her decisions, it's just that I would much rather know who my father is/was then live a life in comfort that is really just a lie.

[nara]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

He played Bonnie Prince Charlie on Outlander as the most uselessly incompetent fop to ever half ass a rebellion against the English crown.  It's a pretty entertaining performance even if just for the line reading of "Mark me, I will take my own life if I am forced to go live in godforsaken Poland."

I had a little drinking game for when he said “mark me”.

[Haleth]

9 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

On the contrary, she died trying to perpetuate the false belief that Valentine is George's son. She died trying to induce a premature birth to simulate her last full term birth of Valentine. I suspect she only wanted to provide for Valentine's financial future by having him be a Warleggan instead of a Poldark.  

Isn't that what I said?  She died trying to prove Val was George's son.  But as nodorothy said, the law would regard Val as a Warleggan regardless of gossip or last minute confessions.

9 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

He played Bonnie Prince Charlie on Outlander as the most uselessly incompetent fop to ever half ass a rebellion against the English crown.  It's a pretty entertaining performance even if just for the line reading of "Mark me, I will take my own life if I am forced to go live in godforsaken Poland."

And next I saw him on Carnival Row as another incompetent fop who goes into a murderous rage due to events.

[Nolefan]

11 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

On the contrary, she died trying to perpetuate the false belief that Valentine is George's son. She died trying to induce a premature birth to simulate her last full term birth of Valentine. I suspect she only wanted to provide for Valentine's financial future by having him be a Warleggan instead of a Poldark.  However, if she truly wanted to do something more valuable to Valentine than money, she would have left some proof of his paternity.  Something to hope that his Pa, is not that horrible man that treats him like shit, but that man with the ready smile who seems to know of him for some reason.

Back in those times being illegitimate was probably one of the worst things that could happen to a child. And not only would Valentine be an outcast from George, it would sully his mother’s (Elizabeth’s) reputation, and Ross would either have to admit that he was a philanderer (and publicly humiliate Demelza) or that he “forced” himself on Elizabeth. In my opinion, what Ross has done in regard to continuing to show up in Elizabeth’s and Valentine’s lives is not love, it is just plain selfishness on Ross’s part. The main reason George treats Valentine so poorly is because he thinks (rightly so) that Valentine is Ross’s child, and George’s belief of this was mainly because Ross was incapable of staying out of Elizabeth’s life, even after — in his own words— he supposedly got Elizabeth out of his system that night Valentine was conceived. If he really loved Valentine, he would have just kept his distance. My personal opinion is that Elizabeth’s death can more squarely be placed at Ross’s doorstep, and I really find it a little disgusting that Ross can just keep on with his happy life with the woman he “truly” loves and his nice family, and Elizabeth, Valentine, and, to some extent, George are just casualties of Ross’s selfish behavior.

[Jacks-Son]

8 hours ago, Nolefan said:

The main reason George treats Valentine so poorly is because he thinks (rightly so) that Valentine is Ross’s child, and George’s belief of this was mainly because Ross was incapable of staying out of Elizabeth’s life,

I thought it was because Aunt Agatha, with scorn in her voice and a somewhat mocking tone, mentioned that Valentine was born with a full head of hair; indications to her, that Valentine was NOT born premature. Therefore conceived before marriage.

[dubbel zout]

No, Agatha was shit-stirring (magnificently!) that Valentine was Ross's child, not George's. He wasn't born prematurely, but that wasn't her point. And even if he was conceived before marriage, he was born within it, which is what matters legally.

[Jacks-Son]

2 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

No, Agatha was shit-stirring (magnificently!) that Valentine was Ross's child, not George's. He wasn't born prematurely, but that wasn't her point. And even if he was conceived before marriage, he was born within it, which is what matters legally.

Then we agree.  😉

[Nolefan]

1 hour ago, Jacks-Son said:

I thought it was because Aunt Agatha, with scorn in her voice and a somewhat mocking tone, mentioned that Valentine was born with a full head of hair; indications to her, that Valentine was NOT born premature. Therefore conceived before marriage.

I believe that the reason Agatha’s was able to s&&t stir so successfully was because Ross was constantly showing up around Elizabeth, which was like a neon sign that something must of occurred or was still occurring between Ross and Elizabeth. In other words, Ross’s behavior made Agatha’s statement seem credible to George. Add in that the sight of Ross makes George crazy, Ross’s constant presence added even more fuel to the fire.

[nodorothyparker]

George certainly knows when he first slept with Elizabeth, which wasn't until they were married.  As a banker, we also know he can count from that date.  If Valentine is indeed a full-term child as Aunt Agatha basically flung in his face, he knows what that means and who the likely culprit is as Ross has never stopped sniffing around Elizabeth ever.

For all that I do believe George loves Elizabeth, he also clearly considers her his greatest coup that he "won" over his supposed betters like Ross.  Valentine is both proof of that and a symbol of a Warleggan finally having made good without constantly having the asterisk of "blacksmith's grandson" thrown up at him.  Even the suggestion that Ross got there first and that he's yet again the proverbial runner up to Ross stuck raising Ross's child under the Warleggan name is enough to make him look like he's chewing glass.

[Jacks-Son]

I don't remember there being a constant presence of Ross at Trenwith. I know that George took any evidence of Ross' influence over things happening as evidence of Elizabeth and Ross meeting against his wishes.  This included Drake being seen with Morwenna (must be Ross' fault); Geoffrey Charles talking positively about Ross, Demelza, & Drake (again it must be Ross' fault), GC's poorly timed comment that he didn't realize until then that Valentine reminded him of Uncle Ross (dagger in the back by that Francis brat). George didn't need any evidence to accuse Ross, it was automatically implied.

[Jacks-Son]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

George certainly knows when he first slept with Elizabeth, which wasn't until they were married.  As a banker, we also know he can count from that date.  If Valentine is indeed a full-term child as Aunt Agatha basically flung in his face, he knows what that means and who the likely culprit is as Ross has never stopped sniffing around Elizabeth ever.

For all that I do believe George loves Elizabeth, he also clearly considers her his greatest coup that he "won" over his supposed betters like Ross.  Valentine is both proof of that and a symbol of a Warleggan finally having made good without constantly having the asterisk of "blacksmith's grandson" thrown up at him.  Even the suggestion that Ross got there first and that he's yet again the proverbial runner up to Ross stuck raising Ross's child under the Warleggan name is enough to make him look like he's chewing glass.

I agree wholeheartedly with this comment, except...I can't reconcile George's self-aggrandizement of having "won" Elizabeth as evidence of his "love" for her.  I don't believe George ever loved Elizabeth, he just wanted what Ross had.

[dubbel zout]

I think George probably loved Elizabeth as much as he could love anyone. I doubt George's childhood was full of warm and fuzzy moments, so he wouldn't have had much of an example. He's emotionally stunted, and that giant chip on his shoulder doesn't help.

[Jacks-Son]

Emotionally stunted, hah!  That's being kind. He's lost without an authority figure telling him what to do and how to act like a person of substance.  Elizabeth's role and her spirit death in his mind is her voice of reason. Without which he would be lost.  Uncle Cary's urging of replacing Elizabeth with that child is repugnant.  Even she saw how pathetic George is and she only just met him.  Do husband's love their "Trophy Wives"?  Some here believe Elizabeth was just a "Trophy Wife", I know I do.  The term itself "Trophy Wife" is  a pejorative.

I know the thought of Valentine being raised by Ross & Demelza is a crazy, impossible wish.  I just can't stand those kids being raised by George. Some here also think Ross & Demelza are not the ideal couple to raise Valentine.  I think however poorly you think of them as parents, they're a helluva lot better than George, his housekeeper, and good ole' lecherous, yet seemingly asexual, Uncle Cary.

[nodorothyparker]

From a purely practical standpoint, George is a rich eligible widower and Uncle Cary's not wrong that a wealthy well bred young heiress as a wife to act as hostess and stepmother would be a big asset to a man in George's position.  It makes sense by the rules of their society, which is all that really matters here.  Slimy Osborne came a courtin' Morwenna a scant week after his wife died for similar reasons, after all.  That George can't even entertain the thought of making such an advantageous match when he's usually the first to spot such an opportunity for gain actually tells you quite a lot about the depth of his grief and other feelings where Elizabeth's concerned.   Nobody says it has to be a perfect unselfish purest kind of pure love to feel genuine to him, even if he is emotionally stunted.  

By the standards of the day, most people would likely focus on the vast material advantages that Valentine and baby Ursula will have and consider them lucky compared to the ragged underfed miners' children and not think much about it beyond that. 

[Jacks-Son]

Bah!! Practicality, tradition, antiquated customs, all tools used to defeat my specious arguments. Concede.

. 

I'm left with a dwindling voice saying, but she's Geofrrey Charles age!!!! Creeeeppy.

[prelanov]

This show has made me decide to read the books. I thoroughly enjoyed it and I am hoping some other production company decides to carry on with it. Love Ross/Demelza

[nara]

6 hours ago, Alistaire said:

I’m surprised by the lack of empathy for Morwenna and Drake on this forum. Morwenna’s story is unquestionably the ugliest and most violent I’ve ever seen on television. There was nothing boring for me about the very brief scene between them in the season opener. I’d wager many marriages either are perpetually sexless or temporarily so, for any number of reasons. 

I suspect that the lack of empathy is due to the fact that most people are watching Poldark as a fun, escapist show, not a realistic view of life. There are other shows that people watch because they reflect real life very well, but this is not one of them.

I would never be annoyed at a real person for struggling to deal with the type of trauma that Morwenna has experienced. However, I confess that I find it boring TV, and I hope that she is able to heal quickly off-screen.

[Nolefan]

9 hours ago, Alistaire said:

I’m surprised by the lack of empathy for Morwenna and Drake on this forum. Morwenna’s story is unquestionably the ugliest and most violent I’ve ever seen on television. There was nothing boring for me about the very brief scene between them in the season opener. I’d wager many marriages either are perpetually sexless or temporarily so, for any number of reasons. 

Honestly, I feel my lack of empathy stems from the fact that I feel the show itself has not given this subject matter the seriousness it deserves, so why should I? While the Ossie character was indeed vile, I feel like the show made him into a joke, especially with the whole storyline with Morwenna’s sister. And now they have the cardboard character of Drake, whose sole purpose in this show seems to be some perfect, long suffering love that “heals” Morwenna. Morwenna and Drake are not being depicted in a real life way to me, so I don’t really have a real life empathy for them. And as Nara stated above, I would have tons of sympathy for anyone struggling with the aftermath of domestic abuse, but Poldark is not a “real life” show, it is a romance.

[nodorothyparker]

I feel terrible for Morwenna and have said as much before.  She's a great object lesson in how terribly wrong these marriages could go amid all the flowing tresses and gowns and how little recourse a woman or even people who wanted to help that woman actually had.  But I don't feel any investment in Morwenna and Drake as a pairing.  Their romance seemed to mostly consist of staring all moon-eyed at each other with the pounding waves in the background, and as we discussed last season, he barely exists as a character outside of that.  He and Boy Band Hugh loved to wax about their "great love" although neither seemed to have much notion of what that love meant in practical terms.  Now Drake's entire character is that of the patient long-suffering spouse whose love will surely "heal" Morwenna if he just continues to be patient enough.  I wish them well, but that doesn't mean I particularly find them interesting to watch.

[Zella]

I don't think people lack empathy for Drake and Morwenna's situation. The problem is the actors are, quite frankly, terrible and bland, and that is distracting. And as others have noted, the writing for them is shallow. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Zella

[Zella]

The problem isn't the writing and acting for them in 1 episode. It's the writing and acting for them for multiple seasons. 

[spaceghostess]

On 10/1/2019 at 2:31 PM, nodorothyparker said:

Is Ross going for a full blowout this season?  Whatever's going on with his hair or hairpiece or whatever is distractingly terrible.  Or maybe it's a deliberate choice to distract from the aged up Valentine looking a little hilariously less like a Ross mini-me than last season's model.

IKR? Calling The Wig Cop: Ross's "hair" game is seriously lacking. I don't think they ever wigged him before, but they definitely are now, for whatever reason, and it's driving me crazy. Maybe AT has/had another role that requires it short or he just wanted a change? Do shows contract the actors to keep a hairstyle? Kit Harrington kept his hair long for GoT, but I don't know if that was his choice; always had the impression it was a requirement. I wish they'd have found a reason to just cut Ross's hair rather than opt for this weird mess that's going on up in there, but production's all-in on the (pre) Byronic hero look at this point, I suppose.

OTOH,  Demelza's hair looks glorious this season, which--as a wig-hater--I attribute mostly to its being Eleanor Tomlinson's own (albeit dyed), instead of some creepy fake thing. Also, her skin is incandescent and somehow never looks like there's a stitch of makeup on it. Her stylists on the show deserve all the Emmys.

Edited October 8, 2019 by spaceghostess

[sleepysuzy]

On 10/6/2019 at 5:01 AM, Alistaire said:

I’m surprised by the lack of empathy for Morwenna and Drake on this forum. Morwenna’s story is unquestionably the ugliest and most violent I’ve ever seen on television. There was nothing boring for me about the very brief scene between them in the season opener. I’d wager many marriages either are perpetually sexless or temporarily so, for any number of reasons. 

I'm actually more interested in their story than many of the others. Demelza misjudges social protocol again, Ross is too impetuous again, etc. Drake and Morwenna's story is slow and quiet, and I like that. The only other interesting plot to me right now is George's madness. 

[Jacks-Son]

11 hours ago, Alistaire said:

Also, the issue of a sexless marriage due to prior, ongoing sexual assault has never to my knowledge been approached in any series.

Having seen the "Next time on Poldark" preview, it appears that whole sad situation is about to get worse, and may end up in tragedy.