S05.E14: Without All Remedy

[Dee]

Quote

After receiving news about Andre's health, the Lyon family does everything in its power to support him, while continuing the tour. As Cookie and Lucious hash out their wrongdoings, Kai comforts Jamal through this process. Meanwhile, Maya comes to terms with where she stands with Blake and the others, and the rest of Empire must make sure the tour stays afloat.

[SimoneS]

I am relieved that Cookie didn't have sex with Damian, but I don't think that he is going any where.

Lucious seems to have come around and is realizing that he has to make amends. Kingsley is back so I am now convinced that he is in the coffin. Just as he really forgives Lucious, he will be killed, maybe by Damian Cross trying to kill Lucious.

I know that Andre will be just fine. Ugh, Kai. Too bad he is back.

This Maya/Blake/Tiana triangle is wack.

[AsiagoSauce]

My episode thoughts:

The Cookie Lyon of season 1 would have picked up a broom and whacked Treasure in the face. I dunno who this new Cookie is. Cookie's insistence on being angry about something that happened over 10 years ago that Lucious never even knew about is starting to get really frustrating.

Jamal can't be alone, can he? Kai didn't approve of Jamal's family, so why even go back to him? Kai is annoyingly clingy. His character bounces back and forth from wanting Jamal to leaving him for "reasons". 

I get that Teri's concerned about Andre but her getting in Cookie's face was disrespectful.

Treasure's big speech about having to sleep with men to get them to listen to her does literally nothing for me. This was the actress' big moment to show that she has a speck of talent but all I saw was constant blinking, the telltale sign of a bad actress trying to pull emotions out of thin air. Besides her faux apology to Cookie, Treasure doesn't act like someone who's been given a career opportunity of a lifetime. She acts like she's an established singer with a horrible Diva attitude. Not looking forward to even more of her.

The love triangle between Maya/Blake/Tiana is tragic. I don't really like the character of Black, so his infatuation with Tiana and their storyline is blah. If the writers wanted to spice up Tiana's storyling they could have given her a stalker/obsessed fan or something.

The song about Andre was sweet but the slideshow was so low budge. Also, I think I just realized for the first time that Jessie...isn't that good of a singer. He has no real vocal range and the autotune bitch-slapping his vocals make him sound like a constipated squirrel. I guess I've just been vibing with his songs melody rather than well him.

All in all, I see Empire heading for cancellation soon. 

[Dee]

Phenomenal episode.

Craig Brewer is the best director this show has ever seen.

[tennisgurl]

The song that Jamal and Hakeem sang for Andre was sweet, but I was cracking up at the pictures they used of the three of them. Like, I had no idea the Lyon brothers started their own Boys II Men cover band!

I dont know about Kai and Jamal. They often work for me, but considering Kai bolted when he saw the Lyon family at their work, I feel like he might so something similar down the road. 

Of course Lucious has a full plan for body disposal. The flashbacks to baby Andre being sick, flashing back and fourth with grown up Andre much more sick, were so sad. Poor Andre. Even knowing that he will probably be fine (him being dying now basically makes me safe for the future death) the guy just goes through so much crap so often. Some of which he admittedly brings on himself, but not this!

Treasure really comes off like someone who is already a big name diva, not someone almost totally new to the industry. She is lucky that Cookie has other priorities now, or she might have lost most of her hair. 

[AgentRXS]

Really Cookie?! You just had multiple flashbacks of Luscious disrespecting you time and again with other women, and you are wringing yourself into knots over nothing? Girl, bye. Just because he did nothing with Treasure means nothing--we all know he's the type that will fuck around on you again when and if he feels like it and he won't feel bad about it. Ugh, I hate this kind of soap trope.

I didnt mind Andre's girlfriend standing up to Cookie. Cookie was disrespectful bringing in the doctor no one asked for and attempting to disrupt Andre's treatment so she could feel like she is doing something as a mother. 

If I were Jamal, Kai would got beat the hell down with that pushiness. You left me and now I need space and you are going to insist on a relationship because you decided thats what you want now? Get the hell on with that foolishness. It triggered me because I had an ex like that. Typical narcissist.

I always thought Smollett was just an average singer most of the time, but Jamal was always my favorite Lyon. Its annoying that he fucked up a good thing. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by AgentRXS

[Empress1]

I was actually kind of disappointed that Cookie didn't fuck Damon. She's due for some revenge sex.

[wanderingstar]

This was another good episode. Loved the heartfelt performance Jamal and Hakeem did in honor of Andre. And of course, I loved the scene of the three brothers. 

I swear, this show does not get enough credit for the authenticity of the characterizations and the character interactions. Andre's family members all rushing to his side and trying to do something - anything - to help him is so real. That's what family members do when they see one of their own in need and feel helpless.

I liked the scene where Damon talked about his daughter having cancer, and how that made him feel. Good work by Wood Harris and Taraji in that one. I do think their secret is going to come out one way or another.

I'm sad to say that I was not enthused to see Kai show up at the end. No matter what they do with that character, I just don't find him interesting. 

Quote

This Maya/Blake/Tiana triangle is wack.

Technically, it's a quadrangle since Carlito is also in the mix, but - yeah, I'm not digging it at all. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by Gillian Rosh

[Dee]

1 hour ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Technically, it's a quadrangle since Carlito is also in the mix, but - yeah, I'm not digging it at all.

I actually like the little quadrangle because it's adding a lot of strong characterization without being actively harmful to the characters themselves.

Tiana's the semi-bitchy diva instead of a full on mean girl, Blake is the good friend with a misbegotten crush instead of a total chump, Maya is the ambitious ingenue instead of an entitled brat, and Carlito is the charmingly aloof spaz instead of a sleazy opportunist.

Teri standing up to Cookie was great. She (and Quincy) will be a wonderful addition to the Lyon family.

I continue to LOVE Jamal & Kai together. Kai isn't perfect, but neither is Jamal. What I like most about them is that they illustrate how much work and personal growth comes with being in an emotionally mature adult relationship.

I also like the quiet work Bryshere is doing as Hakeem. In the past Hakeem would be right in the middle of the Carlito/Tiana/Blake/Maya quad. Instead, he's devoted to being a true team player and quietly focused on work.

I appreciated Jamal giving Porsha props for the job she's doing as tour manager.

Really liked the small touch of having recovering addict Carol working to help build Lucious future rehab center.

Loved seeing Jeremy & Ajiona back. Mini Lucious & Cookie flashbacks are always welcome

Taraji, and most especially Terrence, are doing some of the best work of their respective careers.

[AsiagoSauce]

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Treasure really comes off like someone who is already a big name diva, not someone almost totally new to the industry. She is lucky that Cookie has other priorities now, or she might have lost most of her hair. 

 

OMG, those are my exact thoughts! Treasure really needs humble herself. I might be able to feel sorry for the character if not for the actress playing her. Katlynn Simone just isn't really a good actress. I've seen her in both The Game and The Quad and she employs the same vacant-eyed technique when it comes to playing different characters. The girl could close her eyes and blend in with the walls, she's so wooden.

[marcee]

Disappointed in the sexism that Cookie didn't get hers. Instead she kind of almost cheated, but at the last minute didn't -- even though, as been said before, she deserves it. If not for Treasure, for the many MANY other instances of shitty cheating ass Lucious. Acting like there's no way for fans to forgive HER for an indiscretion even though we've forgiven Lucious a dozen times.

Agree that Cookie has no right to be angry with Lucious about Kingsley - but she has plenty of right to be angry about all his other failings over the years...the Kingsley drama just doesn't make any sense and it continues to bug me.

I enjoy Cookie's relationship with her sisters. I feel like they do a really nice job there.

Spent most of the hour wondering how they're going to write Jussie out.

Love Andre and hate seeing him suffer.

PS What happened to Kingsley's meeting with Clair Huxtable? Is she coming back into the mix ever?

Edited April 11, 2019 by marcee

[AsiagoSauce]

Am I the only one who really, really doesn't like Kingsley? His origin story just seems so haphazardly thrown in solely for the purpose of superfluous drama. I can't even really feel sorry for him because his hatred for the Lyons stems from his mother's stupid inability to tell Lucious. If Lucious is even the father considering that Kingsley's dad could be literally any guy who was around Traci. Hell, Traci could've gotten knocked up by some crackhead.

What's really annoying me is how no one has suggested that Kingsley take a DNA test. I would love to see his face when he realizes that the man and family he's hated all his life isn't even his. I have a sneaking suspicion that Kingsley's real father is Xzibit's character, Shine.

[AgentRXS]

I hate Kingsley too. Right now, Empire is doing two soap tropes I really hate: 1) Have the loyal constantly shitted on wife of the misogynist violent cheating male lead just contemplate being with another man and is already twisting herself into knots and feels like she just has to reveal all because how dare she think with her genitals for once? How dare she find herself attracted to anyone else but MVCML? Makes me want to barf!  2)MVCML's earliest tryst with a pass-a-round results in a bastard child out for revenge. Of course, MVCML"s doesn't' even bother to question whether the child is actually his, no matter the circumstances surrounding conception. It's HIS.SON. (never a daughter) and a relationship must be forged at all costs.But if it was a girl child you can be sure 20 DNA tests would have had to be ran before she could even warrant a moment of his time.

All Lucious anymore is is a R-rated black version of General Hospital's Sonny Corinthos. You're getting lazy, Lee. 

I'd really like to know how Lucious would have reacted if Cookie had been the one raped instead of Poundcake and got pregnant with an unwanted biracial girl child. 

[Margohill]

Another good episode though not quite as entertaining or engaging as the previous.

It's tough to see Andre going through his illness. It was hard watching him go through tough times like his bipolar episodes, when his baby was killed, when is wife died and the way Lucious had treated him with disdain for inheriting his mother's illness. I will repeat that it's all too much for one character. In as much as Cookis has a right to seek the best treatment for her son, she was wrong to think she can just barge in and dictate Andre's treatment plan. He is a grown man and there was a good reason he went to his girlfriend for support and not his mother. 

I don't know why there's all the hate for Treasure. I am so proud Cookie forgave her and decided to give her another chance. It shows that Cookie has really come to understand life and could sympathize with what young, vulnerable girls like Treasure have gone through which alters their way of perceiving certain aspects of life. Kudos to Cookie for that.

I could care less about Kai. He should just disappear as far as I'm concerned. The best pairing with Jamal was and always will be Michael, IMO.

I'm glad Cookie did not confess to Lucious. I hope Cross keeps his promise because I don't trust him. He could use that as leverage at some point.

I don't know what to make of Kingsley and yes I want to know what became of his encounter with Mrs. Dubois.

[AsiagoSauce]

13 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

I hate Kingsley too. Right now, Empire is doing two soap tropes I really hate: 1) Have the loyal constantly shitted on wife of the misogynist violent cheating male lead just contemplate being with another man and is already twisting herself into knots and feels like she just has to reveal all because how dare she think with her genitals for once? How dare she find herself attracted to anyone else but MVCML? Makes me want to barf!  2)MVCML's earliest tryst with a pass-a-round results in a bastard child out for revenge. Of course, MVCML"s doesn't' even bother to question whether the child is actually his, no matter the circumstances surrounding conception. It's HIS.SON. (never a daughter) and a relationship must be forged at all costs.But if it was a girl child you can be sure 20 DNA tests would have had to be ran before she could even warrant a moment of his time.

All Lucious anymore is is a R-rated black version of General Hospital's Sonny Corinthos. You're getting lazy, Lee. 

I'd really like to know how Lucious would have reacted if Cookie had been the one raped instead of Poundcake and got pregnant with an unwanted biracial girl child. 

Dang, you're right about the double standards when it comes to the double standards of cheating between husbands and wives.  The show could have really done with Kingsley's backstory. I also feel like it's an insult to Lucious to even say that Kingsley looks like him (I think Kingsley looks like a shaved ape sometimes). Hell, the actor isn't even that good. All his scenes with the Lyons come off as a spoiled and petulant child throwing a temper tantrum. Not a damaged man, haunted by his lack of a father figure during his childhood. A man who's might have had to fight tooth and nail to get to a position of power. He's literally like, "Wah, I didn't have a chance to grow up like my alleged half-brothers, I'm going to destroy everything you love and struggled for!" I'm crossing my fingers that it's Kingsley in that coffin because I'm sick of him.

[AsiagoSauce]

34 minutes ago, Margohill said:

I don't know why there's all the hate for Treasure. I am so proud Cookie forgave her and decided to give her another chance. It shows that Cookie has really come to understand life and could sympathize with what young, vulnerable girls like Treasure have gone through which alters their way of perceiving certain aspects of life. Kudos to Cookie for that.

The hate for Treasure comes from her haphazard characterization. Cookie discovers in a prison parking lot. She's supposed to be the underdog character who fights for what's hers, but the writers have made her a bitchy diva with little talent and effort. She's supposed to be humble but she's literally trash talking the woman whose child is the grandchild of her boss. She doesn't ask for chances, she demands them without even having enough of a career to do so. That isn't ambitious, it's arrogance. If this was season 1, she would've disappeared halfway through because she brings nothing to the show.

Yes, Treasure's character is young and vulnerable but there needs to be more to her than that because the same could be said about several other female characters. Even if the writers did a complete overhaul on her character's development, I still wouldn't like her purely because the actress has the acting range and capability of a cardboard cut-out or even worse, a wet dishrag.

[Dee]

Michael was, and always will be, trash.

Kai is a 1000x better for Jamal than Michael ever could be.

While Teri standing up to Cookie was great, Andre has NO right acting like the family (especially Cookie) owes him something.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Dee

[Margohill]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

Michael was, and always will be, trash.

Kai is a 1000x better for Jamal than Michael ever could be

Kai is whiny, insecure, childish and lacks substance. He met Jamal when Jamal was already highly successful and fully accepted and respected by his father, yet all he does is complain about Jamal's family, whines and throws diva tantrums. He's a mess.

Michael was with Jamal when Jamal had nothing, was a nobody, hated and despised by his father because of his sexuality. Yet Michael stood by him through all the terrible ordeal. That is someone with substance and who truly loved Jamal. Too bad the writers had to cast out Michael the way they did. In real life, Michael represents someone who is truly there for love and who cares. He stood by Jamal when he was nothing.

1 hour ago, Dee said:

While Teri standing up to Cookie was great, Andre has NO right acting like the family (especially Cookie) owes him something.

Edited 1 hour ago by Dee

I don't know what you mean. Andre had his diagnosis and chose his girlfriend for support. They were managing just fine until Cookie barged in and wanted to take control. All Andre did was to tell her he was OK with his current treatment. I don't see how he felt his family owed him anything. On the contrary, he wanted them to continue with their tour which was more important, and leave him be. If it was not for his girlfriend, they would never even have been told that he was sick.

[Dee]

Kai is the guy who Jamal proposed to, and whose proposal Jamal accepted.

Michael meanwhile remains trash.

For YEARS all Andre (and Andre fans) have complained about is how wrong the Lyons were for attempting to keep Empire running while Andre was dealing with another one of his (usually self inflicted) personal crisis.

Now that the rest of the family is willing to drop everything for Andre, suddenly he wants to bark at everyone and act as if they're being unreasonable for wanting him to have access to the best care possible. 

[Margohill]

56 minutes ago, Dee said:

Kai is the guy who Jamal proposed to, and whose proposal Jamal accepted.

Michael meanwhile remains trash

Jamal has always made the worst decision when it came to dating since after Michael. It has been one worthless,  failed relationship after another. Proposing to Kai is just another bad choice he made. Doesn't make Kai any better than the other bad choices he made. Michael remains the solid love he had who loved him when he had nothing and never made any demands from him. He was a good support system for Jamal which was critical at that point in his life. Kai will never, ever come close to that.

56 minutes ago, Dee said:

For YEARS all Andre (and Andre fans) have complained about is how wrong the Lyons were for attempting to keep Empire running while Andre was dealing with another one of his (usually self inflicted) personal crisis.

Now that the rest of the family is willing to drop everything for Andre, suddenly he wants to bark at everyone and act as if they're being unreasonable for wanting him to have access to the best care possible. 

Andre's problems stem from a  very young age all caused by Lucious. Lucious is purely responsible for Andre's problems except for this cancer. It's OK for Andre to decide the best treatment for himself. Afterall he is a grown man now. Nothing wrong with that. Expressing your wish is not barking, it's just wanting to be left alone to make his own decisions and I agree with him on that. It's his life.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Margohill

[marcee]

1 hour ago, Margohill said:

Andre's problems stem from a  very young age all caused by Lucious. Lucious is purely responsible for Andre's problems except for this cancer. It's OK for Andre to decide the best treatment for himself. Afterall he is a grown man now. Nothing wrong with that. Expressing your wish is not barking, it's just wanting to be left alone to make his own decisions and I agree with him on that. It's his life.

Certainly Lucious wasn't a model father, but Andre's bipolar disorder was and is a genetic condition. Lucious can certainly be blamed for his shitty response to it and treatment of it just as he can be blamed for throwing Jamal in a garbage can. Parents can be blamed for any number of issues their children have but at some point, adults have to take responsibility for their own choices and actions. Andre's had it hard. But he's smart and capable and Empire's success can be tracked back to many decisions Andre has made. So, on the one hand, Andre's decisions are his and they're fair - but on the other hand, family is family and when you're at death's door, your decision-making can and likely will be skewed.

[AgentRXS]

2 hours ago, Dee said:

Now that the rest of the family is willing to drop everything for Andre, suddenly he wants to bark at everyone and act as if they're being unreasonable for wanting him to have access to the best care possible. 

I didn't see him barking at anyone, considering he was passed out or near passing out most of the episode. He was already on a treatment plan, and Cookie came in and disrupted that because she decided she knew better than everyone else. The only time he raised his voice was to stop Cooke and Teri from getting into it. Andre has the right to tell his mother to back off when she's being too pushy. It's his health and his decision. Cookie was letting her guilt (UGH) get the best of her and needed to be put in her place. 

[AsiagoSauce]

 I thought I was the only that didn't like Kai. He and Jamal's chemistry is so freakin' dry. The actor who plays Kai is kind of a black hole when it comes to charisma. He's more of a professional line reader than an actual actor because he never looks like he means what says. Something I've recently noticed is that the guy talks with his eyes wide open all. the. time. Is Kai surprised or did someone stick a finger up his butt? The world may never know.

I know it's mean to say this but I was kind of hoping his plane would crash/disappear and we'd be done with him.

[Dee]

12 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

I didn't see him barking at anyone, considering he was passed out or near passing out most of the episode. He was already on a treatment plan, and Cookie came in and disrupted that because she decided she knew better than everyone else. The only time he raised his voice was to stop Cooke and Teri from getting into it. Andre has the right to tell his mother to back off when she's being too pushy. It's his health and his decision. Cookie was letting her guilt (UGH) get the best of her and needed to be put in her place. 

Andre barked at Lucious & Cookie (and by extension his brothers) when they launched into making plans to get him access to the best treatment possible.

Teri may be a nurse, but the Lyons power and influence (even at its currently reduced level) easily overshadow Teri's capabilities. But instead of Andre & Teri being willing to meet in the middle, they immediately get an attitude and act like everyone is irrational for wanting to help him.

Andre, as an adult, certainly has the right to maintain his healthcare on his own terms. However, for someone whose long acted as if his family didn't care for, or about him, to suddenly resent them for showering him with unconditional love and affection is the absolute height of irony imo.

Also? Michael was never a solid anything. At various points during the course of their relationship, Michael both abandoned and cheated on Jamal with little to no shame. 

Which was in between Michael constantly whining about the concessions Jamal had to make to make as an artist to further his career which proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, he never understood or appreciated Jamal as an artist or a human being.

So glad his wack ass is long gone.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Dee

[AsiagoSauce]

This show has become one big clusterfuck: A RANT

Empire started off as an ok music-centered drama. The main draw for me was that it features a rich/powerful black family with actors I enjoy watching. It was corny sometimes but it was always something I looked forward to each week. To me, it seemed that Empire took its first nose-dive was when the writers allowed Anika to live long after killing Rhonda's baby and sending Rhonda on a downward spiral.

It was cruel and forced us into seeing more of Anika's smug, rectangular-shaped head, shrill yet monotone voice and wooden acting. By the time they finally killed Anika off, I was already starting to grow bored of the show's storylines. The FBI constantly poking their noses into the Lyon family and their dealings is starting to getting real old, real fast. They even pulled the soap-opera card #1134: The Long Lost Relative and brought on Lucious' half-brother. I can't even tell you what happened to him because I was barely even paying attention. The second nosedive was when they gave Lucious amnesia and synesthesia. That storyline was so stupid and took up so much time that I'm not even going to discuss it further.

Now at season 5, we've reached the most detrimental and stupid nosedive. The show decided to pull card #1134 yet again; this time in the form of a long lost son. Pulling too many cards from the cliche soap-opera stack is crippling to most shows, especially when the cliches are half baked and quickly thrown away when they don't work out. The underwhelming cliches did nothing more than weigh down the show as a whole. This season's newest characters who've been more screen time than they deserve are:

Damon Cross: A businessman/gangster who claims to be "more dangerous than Lucious". In reality, however, he's a carbon copy of Lucious without the responsibility of a family. The actor tries so hard to be suave and seductive yet all it does is trigger my gag reflex. He's nothing more than a "lone wolf" who'll eventually get vanquished by the Lyons in some unbelievable and unrealistic way.

Jeff Kingsley: His entire life can be summed up as "Wah, my life sucks because I never had a dad and I grew up poor." The actor's line delivery and general acting does nothing to make his backstory any less whiney. I could honestly care less about his character and I'm actively hoping that it's him the coffin. Sorry, not sorry.

Treasure: A cliche within a cliche, wrapped around an unbearable actress with even more abysmal singing and dancing skills. Erase her from this season and next to nothing would change. Her addition does nothing for the show.

You also have a few miscellaneous characters given little development here and there. Tiana, on the other hand, has been taken all the way back to season 1. She's a mother now yet she's acting like the reckless girl we've seen her evolve from. I honestly think that Empire will be canceled in the near future because it's only gotten worse in the last years, and I don't see where they can even improve on anymore.

[jhlipton]

Weighing on the Andre-Teri vs Cookie fight:

Teri is a nurse who thoroughly researched thoroughly Andre's disease and found a strong, aggressive program that seems to be working.  Cookie spent 5 minutes on the Internet (note that she didn't recognize any of the words Teri used) and thinks she knows better.  Just no.

Family is family, but they can still be wrong and way out of line.

[Dee]

Cookie spent much longer than 5 minutes searching for a doctor, and it was made crystal clear that she went through great lengths to understand quite a bit about Andre's disease and its subsequent treatment,

Cookie is Queen Mother. All others bow down.

[sarkygal]

Terri explicitly stated that Andre had already gotten a 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinion before they started a treatment plan. Cookie can miss me with her last minute grandstanding.

As for the Lyon family resources and access to top medical care, Andre is a Lyon. I’m sure he wasn’t seeing a regular folks oncologist anyway. He would naturally use his family name to get top medical care on his own. Terri reached out to Luscious to get the emotional support Andre needed for treatment. 

[AsiagoSauce]

55 minutes ago, sarkygal said:

Terri explicitly stated that Andre had already gotten a 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinion before they started a treatment plan. Cookie can miss me with her last minute grandstanding.

2

One thing you should keep in mind is the fact that Cookie didn't even know what was going on with Andre up until that point. She wasn't grandstanding, she was trying to help her son in any way that she could.  It's only natural for a mother to try and exhaust all options/opinions even if they've already been addressed.

[Dee]

Also, Teri has no room getting self righteous since she betrayed Andre's trust by telling the rest of the Lyons in the first place.

And the fact that the whole reason Teri felt the rest of the Lyons ought to be made aware of Andre's illness is so they could/would potentially contribute to Andre's ongoing care makes her a first class hypocrite.

[AsiagoSauce]

9 hours ago, Dee said:

Also, Teri has no room getting self righteous since she betrayed Andre's trust by telling the rest of the Lyons in the first place.

And the fact that the whole reason Teri felt the rest of the Lyons ought to be made aware of Andre's illness is so they could/would potentially contribute to Andre's ongoing care makes her a first class hypocrite.

Right!? You should never try to go toe to toe with a momma bear whose cub is sick. This past season has been really trying Cookie and I'm waiting for the moment she starts scalping the people for coming for her.

[jhlipton]

If Cookie really wanted best for Andre, she'd let someone who obviously knew what she was talking about tell her what was going on.  Cookie was out of line -- "toxic motherhood" in this case, matching "toxic masculinity toe-to-toe.

[AsiagoSauce]

9 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

If Cookie really wanted best for Andre, she'd let someone who obviously knew what she was talking about tell her what was going on.  Cookie was out of line -- "toxic motherhood" in this case, matching "toxic masculinity toe-to-toe.

So you expect a mother to just trust a complete stranger with her cancer-ridden, first-born son? A stranger who could very well be poisoning him (i.e.Munchausen's by proxy) for all she knew? Terri was in the wrong to even start the "toxic toe to toe" by getting close enough to accidentally spit on Cookie and was completely disrespectful. "Toxic motherhood" on Cookie's part would be if she didn't try to help at all.

[Dee]

Cookie liked Teri well enough, but she had done her own research about Andre's condition and wanted to help in whatever way she could.

And yet the fact that Cookie trusted Andre and respected Teri enough to acquiesce to their treatment regimen, relatively quickly, speaks volumes about her feelings about their relationship.

Especially seeing as the last woman who tried to get in between Cookie & one of her sons ended up really regretting it.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Dee

[jhlipton]

On 4/16/2019 at 9:43 AM, AsiagoSauce said:

So you expect a mother to just trust a complete stranger with her cancer-ridden, first-born son? 

If that person is a trained professional, duh, yeah.  If that person's treatment had already been helping, duh, yeah.  "But she's his momma" can just miss me.

YMMV

[AsiagoSauce]

 

 

 

3 hours ago, jhlipton said:

If that person is a trained professional, duh, yeah.  If that person's treatment had already been helping, duh, yeah.  "But she's his momma" can just miss me.

You say that as if "trained professionals" don't ever screw up. All I'm saying is that Cookie's concern for her son isn't a bad thing especially when the person involved in his treatment is a complete stranger. I don't know why Cookie's actions bother you so much but it's done and over with. They've moved on from that. You should too.

[jhlipton]

23 hours ago, AsiagoSauce said:

They've moved on from that. You should too.

I was replying to @Dee, who addressed my comment.  I'm perfectly willing to move on.  As I said above, "YMMV".

[AsiagoSauce]

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I was replying to @Dee, who addressed my comment.  I'm perfectly willing to move on.  As I said above, "YMMV".

Sure. For future reference though, if you're addressing someone else's comment, you should quote that specific person.

[Dee]

They weren't replying to me. They were clearly replying to you, @AsiagoSauce.

Hence their direct response to your previous post in their subsequent post.

[AsiagoSauce]

12 hours ago, Dee said:

They weren't replying to me. They were clearly replying to you, @AsiagoSauce.

Hence their direct response to your previous post in their subsequent post.

Thanks, thought I was going blind or something because I clearly see my name being quoted. I think it's cute that they couldn't come up with a better reply other than "I wasn't talking to you.", when they literally had to click under my name to quote in the first place.

[jhlipton]

@Dee and @AsiagoSauce, sorry for the confusion.  But I have indeed moved on --> to the next episode.