Roswell, New Mexico, Roswell (OG) and Roswell High

[phoenics]

16 hours ago, bettername2come said:

 

In terms of the KH drama, I remember reading somewhere (probably on the OG thread) that some of the character shift toward Isabel stemmed from young Shiri Appleby not wanting to do the promotional stuff as she was kind of shy and thinking she could just show up and do her job and be professional and that it wouldn't impact her storylines, but it didn't work like that. 

 

Shiri talked about this in an interview, but she never mentioned Roswell specifically, she just said that when she was younger, she didn't understand how promotion worked very well and she was painfully shy so it opened the door for her to lose opportunities.  I think she was diplomatically saying that her shyness allowed a more extroverted and ambitious (and fame hungry) KH to slip and (temporarily) unseat her.

By S3, Shiri WAS outfront doing a lot more press - in fact, the show tended to push her out there whenever they hit a ratings lull because she brought ratings.

KH got her storylines from S3 because she threatened to quit.  Kevin Kelly Brown appeared surprised when, after announcing this to some fans at a fan event when they asked why suddenly it was the Isabel show, those fans' response was to be like "and - why didn't you let the door hit her on the way out?"

LMBO.  Good times, lol.

[phoenics]

16 hours ago, ellieart said:

THAT'S the show I'd watch

Same.  I still remember some promotional work they did in S1 where they are leaning into each other, their foreheads touching... Shiri is turned to look at the camera, but Jason is still leaning into her, with his eyes closed and ... whew.

Their chemistry is still pretty much unmatched.

I would sacrifice a goat to see them onscreen again in an adult relationship.

Edited April 15, 2020 by phoenics

[Cristofle]

30 minutes ago, phoenics said:

KH got her storylines from S3 because she threatened to quit.

And it was SO BAD. The whole Jesse plot was unbelievably stupid, unlike the Isabel of the first two seasons in almost every way, and completely took her out of of the rest of the show. I can't believe she threatened to quit for THAT. She was also instrumental in the George/Izzie debacle (despite later throwing it under the bus). She really, really does not have a pulse on what viewers even slightly want to see, lol.

 

29 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Their chemistry is still pretty much unmatched.

Sigh. 

[ellieart]

Lordy that gif, whew.  I have yet to witness two actors have chemistry like that, before or since.  These two are a masterclass in chemistry

I was actually thinking about the best episodes in the entire run of the series and there was not one from season 3 in there.  Yeah it had some good parts, but it just lacked any truly great episodes.  I wish all that time spent with Isabel in season 3 was with her and Kyle.  Such an opportunity, I loved them together.

[Cristofle]

Yeah...I can't say S3 has any of my overall favorite episodes. There are good moments here and there- virtually none of them with Isabel, which actually makes me sad because I loved her in the first two seasons- but the overall writing is a mess. I mean, we love to rag on this Roswell, but remember that time Liz and Maria realized Max and Michael might kill an innocent man possessed by Khivar and their reaction in the moment was mild annoyance? I laugh every time I think of that episode because it was OMGSOBAD.

The picture Shiri posted BTS was an episode that is definitely in my top three - Blind Date. I think current Kyle is decently written and Trevino's performance is solid, but nothing he ever does will possibly parallel Max and Kyle's drunken adventure.

[ellieart]

My reaction to season 3 while it aired and my reaction to this version now are pretty much the same. 

Oh man, that episode was SO BAD!  At least now when I rewatch the series and get to the third season, the enjoyment I get is from the unintentional comedy.  

Blind Date, 100% in my top 3.  I couldn't get enough drunken Kyle and Max.  They played off each other so well and that's the episode where I started really loving Kyle.

[Cristofle]

Kyle's Buddhism was also a trip, lol, but I can practically recite Blind Date.

Also in that episode, Isabel says she loves Jesse but also loves Khivar, and Katherine's line delivery was so ridiculous that I actually saw Jason Behr's brain briefly short-circuit. There are truly some sensationally bad moments in that season, and a lot of them are related to Isabel's plot, ngl. Kyle was about the only time she was enjoyable.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Cristofle

[bettername2come]

3 hours ago, ellieart said:

Yeah it had some good parts, but it just lacked any truly great episodes.  I wish all that time spent with Isabel in season 3 was with her and Kyle.  Such an opportunity, I loved them together.

The thing about Kyle and Isabel was that they just suddenly pushed them together AFTER Isabel got married and I hated liking them because I genuinely liked Jesse even though his relationship with Isabel was so ridiculously sudden and I didn't want her to cheat on him with Kyle (even if it did seem she didn't feel that way for Kyle, he certainly did for her.)

There's a lot of great moments and ideas in season 3, but the episodes aren't cohesively good. There's a reason I only watched the series when Smallville was a rerun that season. But if I may, allow me to give a shout out to some of the nice things about season 3.

1. Adam Rodriguez's smile.

2. A great ending scene.

3. Isabel and Kyle's friendship.

4. Ghost Colin Hanks

5. Liz blasting Tess and saying "Get up, bitch."

6. Interesting story of the Evanses finding out about their kids.

7. Michael makes casual friends. (seriously, character-wise this is a nice step forward)

8. "I Married an Alien"

9. Max and Maria coming back from the New Year's rave singing "Alive" by P.O.D. It was always kind of nice when they mixed up the group dynamics some.

Edited April 16, 2020 by bettername2come

[Cristofle]

The NYE episode was arguably overall my favorite, because Max and Maria were great and they didn't get enough airtime together. And nothing was actually wrong with Jesse; the terribleness of the plot was entirely Isabel and how OOC she was.

Other moments I liked....

Max and Michael's Snapple conversation. Jason's delivery of "You stole the Snapple, Michael" will never not be hilarious.

Most of Crash.

The last scene.

Arguably Emilie de Ravin's best acting on the show in her final scene*

Most Kyle scenes.

I didn't love all of I Married an Alien, but Michael and Max in the sitcom scenes were amazing and Michael on the golf course was hilarious.

Drunk Liz after Max quasi-died (although Maria's reaction to her was again strange)

This scene. For...science.

 

*If we want to talk stunningly bad line delivery, nothing will top Emilie de Ravin in the "destiny reveal" scene in S1. OMG. I can't even watch it without being shocked at how bad it is. 

[ellieart]

I only wanted Kyle/Isabel if she wasn't with Jesse, I would have never advocated for cheating.  But I completely understood why Kyle had seemed to suddenly fall for her.  They had started spending more time together at the end of season 2 and formed a friendship that obviously continued into season 3.  The way I saw it, he only realized his feelings when it was too late.  Which is something I've experienced myself, so I felt for him.  Kyle was such a good dude that no matter what, he'd rather have Isabel in his life than mess things up and have her out of it.

And yes to all these points!  I completely forget sometimes that A Tale of Two Parties was from season 3 because it was so so good.  Arguably my favorite moment overall would be Liz blasting Tess, the most deserved thing in the history of that show.  I love Emilie de Ravin, but she's not particularly the best actress at times, especially when she has to use an American accent.  I HATED Tess and hated listening to her talk...so for her to get blasted across the room and subsequently die later (no, that didn't redeem her, she was still a garbage person and turned Max into a garbage person) made me all too happy.

I'm editing this again to just thank you for your scientific evidence.  We may at some point need more samples.

Edited April 15, 2020 by ellieart

[bettername2come]

1 hour ago, Cristofle said:

the terribleness of the plot was entirely Isabel and how OOC she was.

The hair cut and dye job did not help matters at all.

And I think Emilie de Ravin was the first time I caught on that someone was faking an American accent. 'Course I didn't figure that out till she was arguing with Nasedo in the cave, but still.

Edited April 16, 2020 by bettername2come

[Cristofle]

 

1 hour ago, ellieart said:

I'm editing this again to just thank you for your scientific evidence.  We may at some point need more samples.

So many scientific ponderings.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Cristofle

[phoenics]

5 hours ago, Cristofle said:

And it was SO BAD. The whole Jesse plot was unbelievably stupid, unlike the Isabel of the first two seasons in almost every way, and completely took her out of of the rest of the show. I can't believe she threatened to quit for THAT. She was also instrumental in the George/Izzie debacle (despite later throwing it under the bus). She really, really does not have a pulse on what viewers even slightly want to see, lol.

 

Sigh. 

That Sexual Healing Episode scene was so hot I was shocked they aired it on national tv, lol.

Right after this part of the gif - they do a half-kiss thing where I swear to God Jason was trying to devour Shiri whole.

Whew.

<*insert Blanche spraying herself with the water bottle gif here*>

[Cristofle]

1 minute ago, phoenics said:

That Sexual Healing Episode scene was so hot I was shocked they aired it on national tv, lol.

Roswell S1 could get surprisingly dirty! Like when Kyle thought Liz was giving Max a blow job, LMAO. But Sexual Healing was on a whole other level - I am legit surprised this one look didn't get her pregnant.

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, bettername2come said:

 

5. Liz blasting Tess and saying "Get up, bitch."

 

I sometimes go watch that episode JUST for this part.

This episode had a pretty nice makeout session with Max and Liz in the beginning too - but it wasn't anywhere close to the heat of the Sexual Healing episode.  Pretty sure that SH ep was when JB was crushing on Shiri...

I remember in the DVD commentary, the part where Liz pushes Max's shirt off, Majandra goes, "Daaaaaaammmmnnnn... I forgot..."  Then she and Shiri have a convo about how none of the guys they went to high school ever looked like that.

I LOL'd so hard.

Cuz same girl. Same.

[phoenics]

40 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

The hair cut and dye job did not help matters at all.

 

That was when KH went full Julia Roberts in her portrayal (well, she attempted to).  There is a scene where she's arguing with Jesse over being an alien in their kitchen and her mannerisms (pointing and arms flailing) and voice inflection are a direct rip off from the scene in Pretty Woman when she's going "I say when and I say WHOO!".

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by phoenics

[Cristofle]

Just now, phoenics said:

Then she and Shiri have a convo about how none of the guys they went to high school ever looked like that.

LOLOLOL. My BFF and I, and I swear this is true, STILL talk about how Max in Sexual Healing gave us completely unrealistic views of how our male high school classmates were supposed to look.

Sigh. Jason and Shiri put so many other teen pairings to shame. They weren't here for any chaste nonsense. It was tongue or nothing.

[phoenics]

2 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

LOLOLOL. My BFF and I, and I swear this is true, STILL talk about how Max in Sexual Healing gave us completely unrealistic views of how our male high school classmates were supposed to look.

Sigh. Jason and Shiri put so many other teen pairings to shame. They weren't here for any chaste nonsense. It was tongue or nothing.

*sigh*

How could you not be a Dreamer... I just love them.

Also - fun fact.  David Nutter (who directed a lot of the episodes of S1) had to ask Shiri to open her mouth more on the kisses - so I thank him for that SO MUCH.

ETA:  Still mad they replaced Gomez's "We Haven't Turned Around" from their first kiss in the DVD and Streaming versions of the show.  I used to have video of the episodes - I think I got rid of them though - I need to check my hard drive.  I don't think I have all eps though - just Heat Wave and a few others.

Edited April 16, 2020 by phoenics

[Cristofle]

Ughhh, I'm so upset they couldn't keep the original music. It's still super hot, but just not the same without We Haven't Turned Around. Also, Max trying to get Liz to go with him to a Gomez concert in The End of the World doesn't have quite the same punch, heh.

Seriously, I am a little surprised at what they aired between these two sometimes, lol. Especially back in the day.

[phoenics]

1 minute ago, Cristofle said:

Ughhh, I'm so upset they couldn't keep the original music. It's still super hot, but just not the same without We Haven't Turned Around. Also, Max trying to get Liz to go with him to a Gomez concert in The End of the World doesn't have quite the same punch, heh.

Seriously, I am a little surprised at what they aired between these two sometimes, lol. Especially back in the day.

The EOTW reference to Gomez is why they should have left it in. 

And LOL at Kyle in this scene when he realizes what's going on.  The reboot really messed up making Kyle and Alex so ... dour and serious.  The only burst of light on the show is Maria.

[ellieart]

49 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Ughhh, I'm so upset they couldn't keep the original music. It's still super hot, but just not the same without We Haven't Turned Around. Also, Max trying to get Liz to go with him to a Gomez concert in The End of the World doesn't have quite the same punch, heh.

Seriously, I am a little surprised at what they aired between these two sometimes, lol. Especially back in the day.

Kyle's reaction in that scene is hilarious.  

Seriously, Max and Liz were always so horny and I loved seeing what this show got away with!

Have either of you tried The Roswell Restoration Project?  That's where I downloaded all the episodes with the original music intact (because it's a little easier having them on my computer than busting out the VHS tapes from the original airings).  I honestly can't watch the DVD and streaming versions of the episodes because just no thanks on that music.

[bettername2come]

33 minutes ago, phoenics said:

The reboot really messed up making Kyle and Alex so ... dour and serious. 

This version clearly wouldn't sing "American Pie" while buried alive and complaining about this club they never wanted to join.

[ellieart]

2 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

This version clearly wouldn't sing "American Pie" while buried alive and complaining about this club they never wanted to join.

Could you imagine if this version tried to do something so fun?!  I can't even imagine this Alex really knowing what fun is.  

[bettername2come]

1 minute ago, ellieart said:

Could you imagine if this version tried to do something so fun?!  I can't even imagine this Alex really knowing what fun is.  

I know! And I hate it because I like Tyler Blackburn. I enjoyed his character on Pretty Little Liars and Ravenswood. His character who was a hacker from a messed up family background who was protective of his friends and the person he loved. So I know I could like his portrayal of Alex if they'd just let him lighten up a little bit.  I liked the scenes he got with Maria where he got to be a little more playful and it felt like he was friends with the other humans instead of just Michael's love interest.

[ellieart]

58 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

I know! And I hate it because I like Tyler Blackburn. I enjoyed his character on Pretty Little Liars and Ravenswood. His character who was a hacker from a messed up family background who was protective of his friends and the person he loved. So I know I could like his portrayal of Alex if they'd just let him lighten up a little bit.  I liked the scenes he got with Maria where he got to be a little more playful and it felt like he was friends with the other humans instead of just Michael's love interest.

It was so nice to see those scenes with Maria.  It was nice to see any sort of friendship, since they've apparently been friends for so long...which is something I STILL don't believe.  Alex was actually enjoyable in their scenes together.  They should really learn to lean into that more.  The OG was so good at showcasing the friendships and the characters existing outside of being love interests.  You need something light and playful to cut the serious and intense tone otherwise it's just too bleak to watch.  No one is that serious all the damn time.

Edited April 16, 2020 by ellieart

[Cristofle]

I do not understand why Alex is written as having such a generally grim personality. It's not Tyler- he continues to be funny on the occasional times he's actually given good dialogue. And it's not how Alex was written in the books or the OG show. Alex was a military brat in the books, but he also joked around a lot and generally had an uplifting personality.

Kyle...I'm sorry, but I just don't know if Nick's Kyle can be beat.

[peachmangosteen]

13 hours ago, phoenics said:

How could you not be a Dreamer... I just love them.

I never cared about them but also I just have an irrational aversion to the ships we're supposed to root for most of the time.

12 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Kyle...I'm sorry, but I just don't know if Nick's Kyle can be beat.

I really do love the new Kyle, but man, I loved original Kyle. He may honestly be one of my top 10 male characters of all time. I don't really remember much about the original show but I do remember that lol.

I am really getting the urge to rewatch the original but I'm too lazy to download it. I wish it was on Netflix. 

[bettername2come]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

 

I am really getting the urge to rewatch the original but I'm too lazy to download it. I wish it was on Netflix. 

I looked up the Roswell Restoration Project mentioned upthread and it looks like you can stream or download. And the show is on Hulu.

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, bettername2come said:

And the show is on Hulu.

Oh, well then! I'd probably rather watch it on the project thing since it's the original music but I hate watching TV on my computer so!

[ellieart]

I saw someone on Twitter mention that they thought this Alex was much more like book Alex and I was sitting there wondering if we had read the same book series and are watching the same show.

I was a Dreamer as much as I was a Candy.  But in Season 2, my love of M&M surpassed M&L.  Mostly because there wasn't much Dreamer content, but also because Max was the biggest piece of shit for a whole season.

And I agree, watching a show on the computer is rough, but I do it for the original music!

Edited April 17, 2020 by ellieart

[bettername2come]

1 hour ago, ellieart said:

 

I saw someone on Twitter mention that they thought this Alex was much more like book Alex and I was sitting there wondering if we had read the same book series and are watching the same show.

I mean, some credit...military family, last name, brothers, alien hunting father.

Whereas OG series Alex had Book Alex’s sense of humor and was straight in a relationship with Isabel.

[ellieart]

5 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

I mean, some credit...military family, last name, brothers, alien hunting father.

Whereas OG series Alex had Book Alex’s sense of humor and was straight in a relationship with Isabel.

I mean yeah, some credit for giving him the Manes last name and certain family details, but they're nowhere near similar besides those things.  It just made me do a double take.

[bettername2come]

1 minute ago, ellieart said:

I mean yeah, some credit for giving him the Manes last name and certain family details, but they're nowhere near similar besides those things.  It just made me do a double take.

Agreed. Liz is the one who comes closest to her book counterpart. Everyone else, not so much. 

I reread the first book in the series recently and I think they’re really missing an opportunity by not making everyone closely connected as they are in the books. Cheesy though they may be, that loyalty and strength in the group’s connection was heartwarming and way better than infighting and senseless drama.

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, ellieart said:

I saw someone on Twitter mention that they thought this Alex was much more like book Alex and I was sitting there wondering if we had read the same book series and are watching the same show.

I was a Dreamer as much as I was a Candy.  But in Season 2, my love of M&M surpassed M&L.  Mostly because there wasn't much Dreamer content, but also because Max was the biggest piece of shit for a whole season.

And I agree, watching a show on the computer is rough, but I do it for the original music!

Yeah - they haven't read the books if they think this Alex is anything like that - the only time Alex got more serious in the books was AFTER he came back through the wormhole - but he didn't get less funny, he just got less dopey around Isabel.  He was never sour and depressed, except from PTSD from the wormhole - which is plot specific - not who he was as a character.

This Alex is boring, stiff and just not entertaining to watch at all.

I feel like forcing Alex and Michael together kinda killed both characters and took the parts of the characters that made them work so well.  The only time Michael feels right to me is when he's bickering with Maria, Isabel or Max.  THAT was Michael.  This Michael who constantly seems pissed at a consistently dour, wooden and stick in the mud Alex I just don't recognize.

And why does Alex seem better in scenes with Maria and Kyle? 

[phoenics]

16 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

Agreed. Liz is the one who comes closest to her book counterpart. Everyone else, not so much. 

I reread the first book in the series recently and I think they’re really missing an opportunity by not making everyone closely connected as they are in the books. Cheesy though they may be, that loyalty and strength in the group’s connection was heartwarming and way better than infighting and senseless drama.

Agreed.

This show is really just The Vampire Diaries with Aliens.  And The Vampire Diaries felt like it was trying to be Roswell with Vampires anyway.  So now we've got this show, which is a pale imitation of both, lol.

But part of the magic and charm of Roswell was the fact that the one act of Max saving Liz bonded the 6 of them together in a way that they couldn't escape, whether they wanted to or not.  In this version, you could easily see Max or Michael or Isabel leave Roswell and each other.  In the OG show and books, I could NEVER imagine that.  Not even in S1.

Some of the most iconic scenes on OG Roswell were the six of them standing on top of some amazing vista and the camera panning away. Just majestic.

Remember all the scenes of the gang all together at Michael's having to vote on some weird alien thing none of them understood?  Those moments had so much weight.

Even Alex being left out of the loop didn't marginalize him so much - especially since they finally brought him into the fray early on in the first season - like by the 6th episode in a 22 episode season.

Meanwhile, Carina sidelines Maria for the whole first season and even sidelined her whilst she was in a relationship with Michael.  Carina doesn't see her as being as important as Alex.

Carina literally made Maria black and then diminised her, giving her importance to a white male character.

I'm still mad about this. 

[ellieart]

19 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

Agreed. Liz is the one who comes closest to her book counterpart. Everyone else, not so much. 

I reread the first book in the series recently and I think they’re really missing an opportunity by not making everyone closely connected as they are in the books. Cheesy though they may be, that loyalty and strength in the group’s connection was heartwarming and way better than infighting and senseless drama.

It was such a huge part of who those characters were.  And honestly, the original high school versions of the characters in both iterations seemed way less dramatic than their adult counterparts.  I miss their connection with each other.

3 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Yeah - they haven't read the books if they think this Alex is anything like that - the only time Alex got more serious in the books was AFTER he came back through the wormhole - but he didn't get less funny, he just got less dopey around Isabel.  He was never sour and depressed, except from PTSD from the wormhole - which is plot specific - not who he was as a character.

This Alex is boring, stiff and just not entertaining to watch at all.

I feel like forcing Alex and Michael together kinda killed both characters and took the parts of the characters that made them work so well.  The only time Michael feels right to me is when he's bickering with Maria, Isabel or Max.  THAT was Michael.  This Michael who constantly seems pissed at a consistently dour, wooden and stick in the mud Alex I just don't recognize.

And why does Alex seem better in scenes with Maria and Kyle? 

100%...Alex is the best version of himself in scenes with Maria and Kyle, hell even his scenes with Mimi in season 1.  Seriously, a secondary character.  I haaaate him with Michael, they do nothing but drag each other down in both personality and emotion.  And Michael is only really Michael when he's with Maria, Isobel, and to an extent, Liz.  I also feel like he's bogged down by Max too, who is nothing more than a wet blanket.

 

[bettername2come]

49 minutes ago, ellieart said:

And Michael is only really Michael when he's with Maria, Isobel, and to an extent, Liz.  I also feel like he's bogged down by Max too, who is nothing more than a wet blanket.

Maria brings out that casual, relaxed cowboy side of him. Isobel is his closest childhood friend and probably the person who knows him better than anyone else, and Liz challenges him. They can connect on that scientific level and respect each others’ intellect. With Max, it’s so much drama and pain in their history. And I think with Max it can be healed. Going to get that tattoo like his and calling hIm family seemed like a step in the right direction.

[Cristofle]

Alex, for whatever reason, really has never matched his book counterpart in either show. On the OG show, the wise cracking personality is closer, but he didn't have Book Alex's physical strength (I remember a passage where he tackles Max to keep him from going after Kyle for taunting Liz about Rosa's death) or the military brat background that often seemed to lead him to be the most strategic thinker of the gang. And this Alex has absolutely none of Book Alex's personality (and it's very difficult to have Alex be anything like Book Alex without having any connection to Isobel- I'm not totally sure they've ever spoken to each other on this show?).

And yeah, a big chunk of the strength in the books was the connection between all six characters. There are so many gaps here in their various relationships. Alex and Isobel do not interact. Max and Alex do not interact. Max and Maria have only interacted twice (although both scenes were cute; he seems to lighten up a little around her and they appear genuinely fond of each other). Other than the nice scene early this season, Maria and Isobel are overtly hostile to each other and there's a clear indication Isobel targeted Maria to bully her in high school (which was never Isabel's way in the books or OG show; she could be haughty and self-centered but she never went out of her way to be cruel). Alex and Liz are not nearly as close. And I think we've all talked in various places how Liz and Maria's friendship seems very hollow and largely surface-level.

[phoenics]

On 4/16/2020 at 10:31 PM, ellieart said:

I also feel like he's bogged down by Max too, who is nothing more than a wet blanket.

In the pilot when Max confronts a drunk Michael in jail, THAT was vintage Max/Michael.

But then Carina made Max more wet blanket instead of the Max I remember who still had a spark.  I also feel like Carina hurt the characterizations of Max and Liz with their S1 storyline... Max's intensity made less sense than it should have - the thing that would have made it better was finding out that Isabel wiped Liz's memories of loving Max.  I don't know why Carina reversed that storyline - she was clearly setting it up and then she just handwaved it away saying she didn't that... but then she tries to give Michael/Alex the cosmic connection.

Effing Carina, lol.

[phoenics]

On 4/17/2020 at 6:15 AM, Cristofle said:

On the OG show, the wise cracking personality is closer, but he didn't have Book Alex's physical strength (I remember a passage where he tackles Max to keep him from going after Kyle for taunting Liz about Rosa's death) or the military brat background that often seemed to lead him to be the most strategic thinker of the gang.

I partially agree with this - but S2 Alex from the OG show did punch Michael out once - sent him flying.

[phoenics]

On 4/17/2020 at 6:15 AM, Cristofle said:

Max and Maria have only interacted twice (although both scenes were cute; he seems to lighten up a little around her and they appear genuinely fond of each other).

Every character in the cast lights up around Heather Hemmons - she elevates everyone in her scenes with them.  I think it's just her.  I even notice Isabel becomes more tolerable when she's paired up with Heather.  But Max and Michael especially - even Alex.

That's why it irritates me that people claim she's not like OG Maria or book Maria - she has the same quality of just lighting up any character she's around.

[ellieart]

6 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Every character in the cast lights up around Heather Hemmons - she elevates everyone in her scenes with them.  I think it's just her.  I even notice Isabel becomes more tolerable when she's paired up with Heather.  But Max and Michael especially - even Alex.

That's why it irritates me that people claim she's not like OG Maria or book Maria - she has the same quality of just lighting up any character she's around.

She's absolutely like OG and book Maria, she has that personality.  It's just too bad we don't get to see much of it.

[CabotCove]

Quote

How could you not be a Dreamer... I just love them.

Preferred Max's scenes with Isobel and Michael. Michael and Maria, Alex, Kyle..., literally anything else on the show. The group dynamic , alien lore  etc.  Just never bought into it, no matter how intense they got. 

Different strokes...

Edited April 18, 2020 by CabotCove

[phoenics]

2 hours ago, CabotCove said:

Preferred Max's scenes with Isobel and Michael. Michael and Maria, Alex, Kyle..., literally anything else on the show. The group dynamic , alien lore  etc.  Just never bought into it, no matter how intense they got. 

Different strokes...

I loved Candy too.  And Stargazing.  But M/L was the ship to end all ships for me.  And the whole point of Roswell - no matter what incarnation - is that a boy loved a girl so much that he risked everything to save her.

Heady stuff.

Carina kinda botched it on her version though - but the books and OG show got it right.  Hell, Twilight and TVD built their whole stories off that too.

But I loved Candy - I'm definitely hurting on this version.  

Don't get me wrong - I LOVED the Max, Isabel and Michael interactions - but not when they were centered at the human's expense.  The story, imo, lost its heart when that happened.  I remember an article - maybe metacritic? - back when the series ended that basically said that when Liz ran down the mountainside from the pod chamber at the end of season 1, "that she took the heart and soul of Roswell with her".

The show's problem was it could never find the right balance.

This show suffers from the same malaise - but it never achieved Season Onderful levels like the OG version.

[Bloga]

9 hours ago, phoenics said:

I loved Candy too.  And Stargazing.  But M/L was the ship to end all ships for me.  And the whole point of Roswell - no matter what incarnation - is that a boy loved a girl so much that he risked everything to save her.

Heady stuff.

Carina kinda botched it on her version though - but the books and OG show got it right.  Hell, Twilight and TVD built their whole stories off that too.

But I loved Candy - I'm definitely hurting on this version.  

Don't get me wrong - I LOVED the Max, Isabel and Michael interactions - but not when they were centered at the human's expense.  The story, imo, lost its heart when that happened.  I remember an article - maybe metacritic? - back when the series ended that basically said that when Liz ran down the mountainside from the pod chamber at the end of season 1, "that she took the heart and soul of Roswell with her".

The show's problem was it could never find the right balance.

This show suffers from the same malaise - but it never achieved Season Onderful levels like the OG version.

     They have really botched that, it started that way in the pilot...but now some people don't even see Liz as the heart of the show, that's all on the showrunner taking elements from their relationship and shifting focus from Liz...I bet it bothers Jeanine, she's just too professional to say something disparaging, but she very recently said "this is Liz's story" At first I didn't get why she repeated she was number 1 on the callsheet so much, and what it entailed, but now I get it...she sees where the story started and where it's going and how they are taking elements that were hers and Max's and given them to Michael. I like Michael's arc, but not at the expense of Liz...I gotta say, being friends with the showrunner helps...a lot,  specially when she only cares about lgbtq representation, even at the expense of the central character, who happens to be a Latina (this is an ensemble show, but Liz is the central character , the one all the characters gravitate around, the focal point if you will, but this showrunner keeps pushing for a different narrative, at the expense of the minority women on the show, both Liz and Maria) just look at her ig, it's all Michael all the time

[Cristofle]

The fact that Max saved Liz after the diner was closed took some of the immediate urgency away from how it was in the books and the show, though. Valenti immediately became suspicious of them after that, and when he did it when the diner was open, it upped the stakes for exactly how much Max was willing to risk for her. I think this Max WOULD have still saved her if the diner had been open, but for whatever reason, that's not how it was written. 

[CabotCove]

Quote

 

 is that a boy loved a girl so much that he risked everything to save her.

Heady stuff.

Carina kinda botched it on her version though - but the books and OG show got it right.  Hell, Twilight and TVD built their whole stories off that too.

 

I guess that just not my thing then, never liked that on Twilight and TVD either.  Just not onto the" super intense, all consuming" type ships. 

like i say, different strokes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ for different folk.

 

Quote

Don't get me wrong - I LOVED the Max, Isabel and Michael interactions - but not when they were centered at the human's expense.  The story, imo, lost its heart when that happened. 

Well balance is always good. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by CabotCove

[CabotCove]

Quote

They have really botched that, it started that way in the pilot...but now some people don't even see Liz as the heart of the show, that's all on the showrunner

Thats not on RNM, to me she never was, when I watched the OG Roswell. I always saw Max/Isobel/Michael as the heart of the story. Their story was the one I was watching on screen and what i stayed for. Liz, without meeting Max, without the 3 aliens, has no story. She supports Max story/their story. 

If there is one character who is the owner of story/the lead , to me it was Max, he seemed to have the most screentime and him driving the main stories of the show, main stories being centred on him [OG Roswell].  As for RNM, we shall see.  

Edited April 19, 2020 by CabotCove

[shapeshifter]

The early OG episodes had Liz voiceovers, which made the story her POV. I was glad the series finale had that too. It felt like a reward for having stuck with the show. But I always identified with Liz, so that’s my POV. Milage varies. 

[ellieart]

I always saw it as Liz's story too.  If she hadn't been shot, Max wouldn't have saved her and we wouldn't have had a story.  If none of those events happened, the aliens would have continued living their lives like they had since they came out of the pods, blending into their background. 

The Roswell story has always been a love story.  One apparently so well done that Stephanie Meyer ripped it off for Twilight.

But mileage for sure does vary on how you see the show and who you see as the lead.  There's no right or wrong answer.