The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[Trini]

21 hours ago, iarwain said:

That's true, but I still think the more respect the writer has for the source material, the more chance it has to be successful.  That doesn't mean it has to be a 100% faithful adaptation, but it shouldn't be trashed either. 

I agree -- to a certain extent. But I'd also argue that sometimes the 'source material' isn't all that awesome, and could use an update; especially when adapting it to a new medium, for a wider, modern audience.

[iarwain]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

I agree -- to a certain extent. But I'd also argue that sometimes the 'source material' isn't all that awesome, and could use an update; especially when adapting it to a new medium, for a wider, modern audience.

Sure, but I don't think the original Marvel material would be included in that description, they were enjoyable and revolutionary.  Of course anything could be updated, and you wouldn't want to follow old stories frame by frame, but keep the basics and the spirit that made it popular in the first place.

[Kel Varnsen]

5 hours ago, iarwain said:

The Ultimates (Ultimate Avengers) was a very interesting take, and popular.  The rebooted X-Men were far more popular than the originals, and they fit the concept.  They even included some members of the original team, and brought them all in eventually.  The Ultimate version of Spider-Man led to Miles Morales, also popular

The only thing I remember from reading the Ultimates comics was that Hank Pym was clearly abusive to Janet, not in an ambiguous way the had meant for it to be in the regular comics continuity. And that Wanda and Pietro had an incestous relationship. Seems like those storylines were way more disrespectful to the source material than anything in the movies. Also unfortunately a lot of people would probably think that a Black, Puerto Rican Spider man would also be disrespectful.

[JustHereForFood]

Movies can both be appealing to the hardcore comic fans and attract new fans (see early MCU).

In the same way, using one female character does not take away from other characters. Why are people acting like it's a zero-sum game?

[iarwain]

On 12/22/2024 at 8:04 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

And that Wanda and Pietro had an incestous relationship. 

Makes you wonder if they had read A Game of Thrones.

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, iarwain said:

Makes you wonder if they had read A Game of Thrones.

The Strucker twins were implied to be getting their Lannister on far before GOT. Plus, y'know, there are plenty of historical examples.

[iarwain]

7 hours ago, Anduin said:

The Strucker twins were implied to be getting their Lannister on far before GOT. Plus, y'know, there are plenty of historical examples.

Not sure what you mean here.  Are you saying incest was implied in the main Marvel Universe (Earth-616)?  I agree they were unusually close, not so sure about incest though.  Anyway, the novel A Game of Thrones came out well before the Ultimates.

[arc]

On 12/22/2024 at 5:04 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

The only thing I remember from reading the Ultimates comics was that Hank Pym was clearly abusive to Janet, not in an ambiguous way the had meant for it to be in the regular comics continuity.

In 1610 (Ultimate Universe), Hank Pym was clearly abusive, yes. But in 616, he really did hit Janet very hard. That was also definitely abusive. I think Stan Lee said he had suggested something less intense, but the Marvel way at the time was loose plots to the penciller, who was trained to draw maximum action all the time. So it came back more violent than what Stan Lee intended, but that is what got published. (Deadlines were too tight to redraw it.)

[Kel Varnsen]

2 minutes ago, arc said:

I think Stan Lee said he had suggested something less intense, but the Marvel way at the time was loose plots to the penciller, who was trained to draw maximum action all the time. So it came back more violent than what Stan Lee intended, but that is what got published. (Deadlines were too tight to redraw it.)

Yea that was my understanding too which is what I was getting at. I don't think Lee was the writer then (I looker it up and it was Jim Shooter). But yea it was supposed to be a lot less clear that it was intentional abuse in the mainline universe. But in Ultimates it was a lot more clear (doesn't he have an army of ants attack her). But if people want to talk about respecting storylines, the Ultimate line was way more of a change from the main universe than anything in the movies.

[Anduin]

8 hours ago, iarwain said:

Not sure what you mean here.  Are you saying incest was implied in the main Marvel Universe (Earth-616)?  I agree they were unusually close, not so sure about incest though.  Anyway, the novel A Game of Thrones came out well before the Ultimates.

Yes, the Struckers were being creepy before either the Lannisters or Maximoffs.

[iarwain]

1 hour ago, Anduin said:

Yes, the Struckers were being creepy before either the Lannisters or Maximoffs.

Well, maybe that's why it worked in the Ultimates.

[arc]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

But if people want to talk about respecting storylines, the Ultimate line was way more of a change from the main universe than anything in the movies.

Well yeah, the original comics still exist, esp in a post-scarcity world (well, at least for digital goods). The only point of making Ultimate Universe comics would be to do something new.

Also, yes, sorry, Jim Shooter, not Stan Lee.