All Episodes Discussion

[pdlinda]

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

This woman thought they might kill her then went anyway.

I thought that after it was revealed that Aileen's mother died of cancer when she was a child and that was followed by the death of her father from a heart attack a few years later she was left with a permanent emotional disability. 

There was no mention of Aileen ever receiving intensive psychological therapy after her parents died so when her older sister(who served as her care giver after the death of her parents) moved to CA, I thought the dye was cast for Aileen to flounder and wind up in the disastrous situation that finally killed her.

I would never advocate for a person to die, but in Aileen's case, her behaviors and choices were so self-destructive that it was almost as though she was "tempting fate" and eventually she lost her battle with "life."

The two monsters who killed her were sentenced appropriately and I hope they serve their time with the thought of how depraved and horrendous their actions were that killed Aileen churning through their minds every single day!!

 

[TVbitch]

I dunno on Saturday's ep. They were both very drunk, and she was mixing a bunch of Rx's with a history of depression. Pills that he prescribed! She looked agitated on the video, so either she spiraled down or he got enraged about something. 🤷‍♀️

Whatever happened, he is clearly not the angel his family thinks he is. I mean, he had an affair on his wife (with four young kids at home) and he was unethetically prescribing drugs to the woman.  

[LakeGal]

We kept asking what happened to his pants.  The guy walked in the building wearing jeans.  But he was sitting in the hallway in his shorts.  What happened to his pants?  Was there blood on them?  

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Whatever happened, he is clearly not the angel his family thinks he is. I mean, he had an affair on his wife (with four young kids at home) and he was unethetically prescribing drugs to the woman.  

Seriously, if he was trying to keep his wife from finding out about the affair, that...clearly did not work out well for him in the end. 

And then the guy Alex was currently dating, Shane, was talking about how in love they were and all that...and yet here she was having an affair with Matthew at one point during their relationship, and Shane openly admitted to punching a wall during a fight they had, and he also got in a fight with Matthew at the bar. My mom, when watching the episode, was like, "So they're both jerks and yet she's the one who ends up dead?" 

Given she did have a history of a suicide attempt, and did have prescriptions for antidepressants, I can see why people would assume that she'd killed herself. But my big problems with that argument are:

-She was getting these prescriptions from Matthew, who not only shouldn't have been prescribing them to her, since it wasn't in a professional capacity, but is also not a mentall health expert and thus wouldn't know what kind of medication would actually work best for her. Suppose he was prescribing her medication that exacerbated her mental health issues instead of helped? Not the smartest thing to do for someone who has a history of attempting suicide. 

On a similar note, if you know your friend does have a history of attempting suicide and she is in a stressed out state of mind and sending those kinds of texts about needing a mental health day, why, why would you bring a GUN with you to their place? I know he claimed he did it for protection against Shane, but if she did wind up shooting herself with the gun, well.. clearly the gun didn't prove helpful in the end, did it? 

-If you know your friend is scared of their boyfriend, instead of coming to their place with a gun, why not say, "Hey, why don't you stay somewhere else for the night?" He's married, so bringing her to his place wouldn't work, obviously, but maybe he could've put her in a hotel room for the night or something, somewhere where she could be away from her boyfriend, who knows where she lives. Or he could've called the police and had them ensure she had a safe place to go for the night. Anything other than, again, coming over to her place with a weapon that would only wind up adding to the drama of the situation in some form or another and put him under scrutiny. 

-I know suicidal people will not always be thinking logically or calmly or whatever when they're in that headspace. I know it can be very common for people to go about their usual activities for the day, only to wind up taking their own life afterward. And I also understand people not wanting to live their lives in fear even when they're afraid of their signiicant other, or claim they are. 

Still, the timeline of events that night did seem odd to me - she claims to be scared of her boyfriend and is not in a good mental headspace...and yet she and Matthew are just going out and about bar hopping and having drinks like it's just a normal evening out? She didn't seem scared of Shane in that video at the bar, when Shane and Matthew first met face to face. And then she goes back to her place and supposedly shoots herself? 

I dunno. It just seemed weird to me. 

Plus, Matthew openly admitted to washing his hands and moving the gun And he just volunteered both pieces of information of his own accord - the hand washing bit he said when the police arrived after the 911 call was made, when he was simply telling them his story of what happened that night. And the whole moving the gun thing he decided to share after he'd been given a bit of time to himself mid-interrogation. That, combined with the fact that he called 911 after doing that stuff, is damning to me. If she did shoot herself, as he claims, one would think he would've called 911 the minute he opened that door affter hearing the gunshot, and saw her sprawled on the floor. Or hell, he could've called the moment she barricaded herself in the bathroom with the gun. If she did shoot herself, all his hand washing and not calling 911 right away did was just delay any chances of anyone coming to try and save her in time. And I could undrestand him panicking, but he'd also have to know that moivng the gun would not help his case and would make people more suspicious of him, not less. Especially since he put it on the wrong side of her body. 

But yeah. I don't think she killed herself. I think, despite the fact that Matthew and Alex had broken up by that point, their continued friendship gave him hope that maybe he could get her back. Especially if she gave him an indication she was scared of Shane.

Then they run into Shane at the bar and Matthew finds out she's still with him, and the two guys get in their little fight at the bar. She gets mad at Matthew afterward, be it for the bar fight, or for the fact that he wants to get back with her and she's not interested, or whatever, and they get in their own fight back at her place. 

And then, because he's got some alcohol in him and is still running on whatever anger he had from the whole encounter with Shane at the bar, and has access to a weapon besides, he shoots her. Then he panics, tries to clean up and make it look like a sucidie, and calls 911. She may have had a history with suicide attempts, and certainly all this drama with Shane and Matthew could add to her mental health struggles and could be a reason for her to want to take her own life. But I just don't think that's what happened here. 

Edited October 27 by Annber03

[12catcrazy]

I think that Matthew shot her after she got him enraged about something.  Again, another case where you don't want to blame the victim for what happened to them, but my take on this is that was a very screwed up young woman who had a knack for knowing how to push people's buttons and it killed her in the end.

[TVbitch]

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen a case where the suspect's own daughter, "friends", multiple other family members, and jailhouse snitch all proactively aided cops and turned over evidence on this guy. They must all be frightened of that asshole. Only a sociopathic narcissist could sit down with Lesley Stahl and tell her with a straight face that his terrified ex-girlfriend ASKED HIM to follow her to the home of her new guy. 

[pdlinda]

2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Only a sociopathic narcissist could sit down with Lesley Stahl and tell her with a straight face that his terrified ex-girlfriend ASKED HIM to follow her to the home of her new guy. 

It was Erin Moriarty who interviewed the creep...AND I watched his eyes as he was lying through his teeth when she interviewed him in jail and he never blinked once! 

He is a real "piece of work"...too bad, with all her training in self-defense she was unable to save her own life.  She knew he was trouble and even though she cancelled him on social media, I was very surprised she didn't take more active steps to distance herself from him.

[12catcrazy]

It was pretty amazing to watch the guy being interviewed and deny, deny, deny, that he killed his ex-girlfriend and not even blink.  It's amazing that the other victim lived, but with terrible impairments.  He at least found love - I hope that the killer rots in jail the rest of his life.  

[badgerwoman]

On 11/7/2024 at 3:07 PM, 12catcrazy said:

It was pretty amazing to watch the guy being interviewed and deny, deny, deny, that he killed his ex-girlfriend and not even blink.  It's amazing that the other victim lived, but with terrible impairments.  He at least found love - I hope that the killer rots in jail the rest of his life.  

Me too.  And it was very telling his relatives helped the police.

Stalking stories are scary.  Many, many years ago when I was still in college, I knew two young women being stalked.   One moved 2000 miles away (I knew her stalker, too) and the guy eventually stopped the stalking.  they were both high school classmates with me but the stalking started when they were both freshman.  I heard at the time his parents forced him into therapy.  

the other  case was a dormmate.  the campus police were not much help, but everyone in the dorm was concerned enough we set up a rotation to make sure she could walk around campus with a couple of people at all times.  She eventually left  and went far away, too.  I've always wondered what happened in the end.  She didn't tell us where she was going.  It was all extremely frightening for all of us.  the positive is we lived in a very secure dorm and no one was letting him in if he asked.

 

[TVbitch]

Sickening episode. Holly did NOT look very happy to be going to prison, and I could not help but enjoy that mug shot without her tik tok beauty filters. Before Andrew's mom gets too excited about her son being a wonderful person with good character who just had a little "moment" of murder cuz he got manipulated by a hot chick, she needs to remember that he r son was stalking, tracking, harassing with lawsuits, and trying to financially ruin his poor ex before he even met Holly. 

[badgerwoman]

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

Sickening episode. Holly did NOT look very happy to be going to prison, and I could not help but enjoy that mug shot without her tik tok beauty filters. Before Andrew's mom gets too excited about her son being a wonderful person with good character who just had a little "moment" of murder cuz he got manipulated by a hot chick, she needs to remember that he r son was stalking, tracking, harassing with lawsuits, and trying to financially ruin his poor ex before he even met Holly. 

Yep.  the guy was scummy.  Good Character people don't decide to murder someone because their boy or girl friend think they should.

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Before Andrew's mom gets too excited about her son being a wonderful person with good character who just had a little "moment" of murder cuz he got manipulated by a hot chick, she needs to remember that he r son was stalking, tracking, harassing with lawsuits, and trying to financially ruin his poor ex before he even met Holly. 

Mmhm. I do appreciate that she did ultimately acknowledge her son did murder his girlfriend, and I can understnad struggling to accept that your child could commit such a heinous crime in and of itself, but...yeah. I do think she's still ddefinitely got some blinders on when it comes to him.

But god, yeah, what a horrifying story. The description of how Alyssa died...dear god. Just absolutely awful. The fact that nobody came outside to help her at first because they thought it was an active shooter situation just makes it that much more heartbreaking. Andrew and Holly are right where they deserve to be. 

Poor little Willow, too. I just want to give her a hug. 

Edited November 17 by Annber03

[Ohmo]

And we go from Alyssa's case (which was horrifying) to Melissa's case with Matt Plote.

She wasn't asking him for anything.  He was completely free to walk away.  Instead he murdered both Melissa and Barrett simply because he didn't want anyone to know he had fathered a child/

[pdlinda]

3 hours ago, Ohmo said:

She wasn't asking him for anything.  He was completely free to walk away. 

I could say a lot more, but out of respect to Melissa and the unborn child, I can't bring myself to say anything negative EXCEPT to remark that she had a LONG "friendship" with that man over many years so it's regrettable that she didn't understand different parts of his personality. 

My experience tells me that if he was handling "multiple women" at the time of the crime, that was probably his pattern when they were friends.  

So very sorry she AND HER FAMILY had to suffer so much, including the unborn baby.  

I will say that, based on my MANY YEARS of doing criminal defense work, they better put him in "solitary" confinement for quite a while, as killing unborn children doesn't pass muster with general population inmates.  That I can say as a FACT!

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, pdlinda said:

I could say a lot more, but out of respect to Melissa and the unborn child, I can't bring myself to say anything negative EXCEPT to remark that she had a LONG "friendship" with that man over many years so it's regrettable that she didn't understand different parts of his personality. 

I understand what you're saying, but in this day and age, it's not uncommon for women to raise children without the biological father involved.   She had family support, and that's what she and her family were planning to do.

Yet, he didn't want the child to EXIST even if he weren't involved in the baby's life.  That's a serious level of cold.

[TVbitch]

The look on his face never changed the entire episode. It said, "fuck, they caught me."

Women need to be more aware that homicide is the #1 cause of death for pregnant women, so they can be more cautious in these situations. Don't be alone with a guy who does not want you having his baby. 

[badgerwoman]

On 12/2/2024 at 8:23 AM, TVbitch said:

The look on his face never changed the entire episode. It said, "fuck, they caught me."

Women need to be more aware that homicide is the #1 cause of death for pregnant women, so they can be more cautious in these situations. Don't be alone with a guy who does not want you having his baby. 

One of the few times where someone acted really pointed the guilt. He was so unaffected by the death of his child it was scary.

[pdlinda]

On 12/1/2024 at 10:11 PM, Ohmo said:

Yet, he didn't want the child to EXIST even if he weren't involved in the baby's life.  That's a serious level of cold.

You make my point!  She was friends with him for 6 yrs before they became "intimate." 

As I stated in my original post, I'm not going to say anything judgmental or critical about Melissa's relationship with the murderer as she is deceased so I opt for letting her "rest in peace."  Hopefully, lessons learned for future women in similar situations. 

There's so much publicity and attention regarding women "being in charge of their own bodies" so that principle should be applied to women when choices need to be made regarding whether or not to engage in unprotected activities that can lead to pregnancy....especially as it pertains to whether the male involved is interested in becoming a father.  

 

[Ohmo]

On 12/5/2024 at 6:22 PM, pdlinda said:

You make my point!  She was friends with him for 6 yrs before they became "intimate." 

That road runs both ways.  He was also friends with her for 8 years.  If he were THAT insistent on not having children exist at all, then he needed to not be sleeping with women.  If he chose to do that, then HE needed to be very aware of his own birth control.

I don't see this situation as being Melissa's issue at all.  Matt was the one with issues so strident that he didn't want children to exist.  Melissa wasn't asking Matt to be a father.  He was completely free to walk away.  She was providing him with the ability to be involved if he changed his mind.  Being an absentee parent is not unheard of in today's society, and Melissa was prepared for Matt to be that.  However, she was not prepared for him to be absolutely psycho about the existence of children.  Not him raising the child, but the child simply existing even if he had nothing to do with that child.

Melissa didn't sleep with herself.  Matt participated.  He was the one asking Melissa to have an abortion.  He wanted to have the sex, and then ask another person to handle things his way.  It doesn't work that way.  His point of view was extreme.  If he really felt that way, it was on HIM to act accordingly (not have sex), so that he could be CERTAIN he didn't father children.  It wasn't on Melissa to be "on the lookout", Matt to enjoy sex, and then put the responsibility for the sex on HER!

[Chalby]

On 11/3/2024 at 1:26 PM, TVbitch said:

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen a case where the suspect's own daughter, "friends", multiple other family members, and jailhouse snitch all proactively aided cops and turned over evidence on this guy. They must all be frightened of that asshole. Only a sociopathic narcissist could sit down with Lesley Stahl and tell her with a straight face that his terrified ex-girlfriend ASKED HIM to follow her to the home of her new guy. 

I was so impressed with his 17 year old daughter. Despite his claims that his daughter clashed with her, she immediately stepped up and did the right thing. I think she has witnessed her father's history of despicable interactions (and may have been subjected to it, as well. )

[Chalby]

4 hours ago, Ohmo said:

That road runs both ways.  He was also friends with her for 8 years.  If he were THAT insistent on not having children exist at all, then he needed to not be sleeping with women.  If he chose to do that, then HE needed to be very aware of his own birth control.

I wish I could give you 100 thumbs up. Here we are in such a tech driven, modern society, and yet some behaviours never stop.

As upsetting as it may feel to be caught unexpectedly pregnant, women have historically acknowledged and accepted this predicament, while planning their futures accordingly.

However, why is it we never hear of any fathers stepping up and owning their behaviour or contribution? I've come across adult men who have been vocal in their plans to not have kids, and who have actively rejected and blocked a woman claiming pregnancy. (And 2 determined guys had vasectomies - good on them).

However, by stating "I don't want kids" but continuing sexual activity without birth control, is reckless, selfish, and now he's fully involved.

I know history has seen an abundance of responsible single moms, and we all recognize it's simply because women have to carry the physical consequence of no birth control.

(Please be aware, I know many men who've stepped up for the child, despite no relationship with mom.). But this is Melissa or Alyssa's (?) story.

I wonder if men were the ones giving birth, there would be A LOT more laws and procedures in place to ensure both parents were held accountable. Pretty sure pregnant men wouldn't allow any of their past negative or questionable behaviour be questioned during child custody cases, either.

Edited December 16 by Chalby
Forgot name

[Chalby]

On 12/5/2024 at 3:22 PM, pdlinda said:

There's so much publicity and attention regarding women "being in charge of their own bodies" so that principle should be applied to women when choices need to be made regarding whether or not to engage in unprotected activities that can lead to pregnancy....especially as it pertains to whether the male involved is interested in becoming a father.  

But that was the result of unprotected sex. She wasn't on birth control, and clearly accepted the physical consequence.

Once again, one cannot be angry at an outcome, if one contributed to the result. Matthew was beyond selfish and ridiculous to act as though something horrific was foisted upon him, without his approval.

Women "being in charge" meant no one could force her to abort or carry.  

[Chalby]

On 2/14/2024 at 11:00 AM, 12catcrazy said:

Does anybody watch 48 Hours any more?  This past episode was about the LA Therapist who had been engaged to Drew Carey and murdered by an obsessed ex-boyfriend (who she hadn't seen in 10 years, and who was "triggered" when he saw her at an event. 

And yet women are seen as too emotional. Fortunately, women don't act on this emotion as much as men. For some reason, the word "No" triggers a lot of exes...

[Ohmo]

On 12/15/2024 at 11:26 PM, Chalby said:

Once again, one cannot be angry at an outcome, if one contributed to the result. Matthew was beyond selfish and ridiculous to act as though something horrific was foisted upon him, without his approval.

And Matt wasn't even being asked to contribute.  Melissa and her family were completely ready to raise the baby without involvement from Matt.  The fact that that wasn't good enough, that he didn't want children to even exist (but still wanted to have sex) is utterly cold and mind-blowing to me.

Matt had the opportunity to be a deadbeat parent.  Melissa's mother said in court that all he had to do was walk away, and that still wasn't good enough for him.  He murdered a child simply because that child existed, even though he was not being made to be responsible for that child.

I know there are debates about the unborn, but Melissa was due to be induced in 2 days.  At that point, it's a baby who just happens not to be outside the womb yet.