Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[WendyCR72]

WE is so arbitrary in terms of showing scenes or not. "Rispetto" is on now, and this time, the part where Nyle Brite asks the hooker if her father knew she was a whore was shown, when it hadn't been during "normal" hours, but shown late at night when it aired then.

Then again, with the reality trash it shows, that scene really was no worse than half of that stuff. "The Consoler", of course, airs next.

But I notice on the schedule that, after the marathon ends with that, it circles back to S1 next week, so much of S10 will be skipped this time. Weird how sometimes the whole series is cycled through and other times, episodes get skipped. *shrug*

[Xeliou66]

I just watched View From Up Here, I really like this episode, all of the stuff going on at the building made for an interesting backdrop and the case was very good with an interesting cast of suspects. You know that season 4 was dark and weird when this was one of the more “normal” episodes.

Victor was extremely slimy and creepy looking and he was an effective perp, interesting plot with how he set up the disturbed nanny to try to take the fall. Good detective work in figuring out how he went about setting it all up. 

Impressive how Carver instantly knew the Bible passage that the nanny mentioned, we never knew what Carver’s religion was or what his background was but he must’ve had some religious education/experience to know the Bible that well.

I think this is an underrated episode, it may get overlooked because it wasn’t as dark or bizarre as some season 4 episodes but it’s a really good plot that was intricate but it all made clear sense in the end. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Victor was extremely slimy and creepy looking and he was an effective perp, interesting plot with how he set up the disturbed nanny to try to take the fall. Good detective work in figuring out how he went about setting it all up. 

I've loved Adam Goldberg ever since he was Chandler's crazy roommate on Friends. He is very good at "whackjob".

Quote

Impressive how Carver instantly knew the Bible passage that the nanny mentioned, we never knew what Carver’s religion was or what his background was but he must’ve had some religious education/experience to know the Bible that well.

IIRC, Carver did that a couple of times. Maybe his backstory is that he studied for the priesthood at some time?

I agree, it's one of my favorite episodes.

Edited November 14, 2022 by peacheslatour

[Xeliou66]

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

I've loved Adam Goldberg ever since he was Chandler's crazy roommate on Friends. He is very good at "whackjob".

IIRC, Carver did that a couple of times. Maybe his backstory is that he studied for the priesthood at some time?

I agree, it's one of my favorite episodes.

I don’t recall another episode where Carver quoted from the Bible directly, but it was impressive how he had that knowledge. I wonder if he had a religious upbringing or went to a religious based school? We just never knew anything about Carver, but I kind of like how CI never shoved the personal lives of the characters down our throats, at least not during the first 5 seasons, and even after that it never became the full blown soap opera that SVU is now.

I really like View From Up Here, I like all of the detective work they did to figure out how the disturbed nanny was being set up to take the fall and then putting the camera in the shaft to record Victor coming and going and how they got him to confess at the end. I have no idea what Darla saw in Victor, he was a sleazy looking creep. I wonder if Victor’s wife had any idea what kind of psycho she was married to, or that Victor moved there just to be near Darla again.

[WendyCR72]

I got a kick out of Alex's, "The fancier the building, the bigger the vermin in the walls!" as she, Goren, and Victor watched the tape of Victor slithering through the vents.

Victor was icky, and I suppose Darla being trashed would be the only reason she would have given him the time of day.

As @peacheslatour said, Adam Goldberg was great on Friends as Eddie. Goldberg has made a career playing oddballs and weirdos.

Also remember him from the short-lived ABC series, Relativity, in 1996.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

I got a kick out of Alex's, "The fancier the building, the bigger the vermin in the walls!" as she, Goren, and Victor watched the tape of Victor slithering through the vents.

Victor was icky, and I suppose Darla being trashed would be the only reason she would have given him the time of day.

As @peacheslatour said, Adam Goldberg was great on Friends as Eddie. Goldberg has made a career playing oddballs and weirdos.

Also remember him from the short-lived ABC series, Relativity, in 1996.

I liked that Eames line as well, and I also liked her line about how if the guy who hit the body with his boat didn’t submit to a breathalyzer test she would put him somewhere his pull didn’t reach.

Victor was a slimebag inside and out, and I have no idea why Darla had an affair with him. There was an interesting cast of suspects in this episode and it kept the suspense up. One of my favorite episodes from season 4. 

[WendyCR72]

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I liked that Eames line as well, and I also liked her line about how if the guy who hit the body with his boat didn’t submit to a breathalyzer test she would put him somewhere his pull didn’t reach.

Yes! Alex took no crap. I liked that about her.

I do think Adam Goldberg was very good/scary at the end when he kept saying, "I killed your man!" He was clearly psycho.

For her sake, I hope Darla did hightail it to California following that.

"The Unblinking Eye" ended the Tuesday Sundance marathon, and I still get a kick out of the fact that Matt Damon had a voice cameo. As I said prior, one of his first (uncredited!) roles was in the 1988 movie, Mystic Pizza, where VDO played the fiancé of one of the three female leads, so I'd like to think Matt Damon did it as some sort of favor.

But the perp in that was such a cold sleaze, too. Killing his girlfriend to gain more fame is just ice cold. His ex, Kelly, who was accused definitely dodged a bullet by dumping his ass.

[peacheslatour]

The Unblinking eye also had Pablo Schreiber (William Lewis from SVU) as the killer's actor buddy. He played Lewis as a terrifying rapist/murderer and I can never see him without thinking about how much I hated him on SVU.

[TakomaSnark]

Was watching 'Death Roe' again yesterday (have seen it countless times) and there are still some plot points I am not clear on that I hope someone can help with:

1) When Josh gets the phone call about the food poisoning and goes into a rage, is it because the pending bad review will ruin his business or that he believes his father-in-law sabotaged him with bad/tainted fish?

2) Along those lines, the editor tells Goren and Eames that the critic did have food poisoning but doesn't a guest at the dinner later say no, he was the one who had the food poisoning. If there was no food poisoning (which jives with Josh being tricked into believing there was), why did the editor say there was?

3) We know Tommy murdered Josh but I'm still not clear on who killed the critic. Josh had the immediate motive; however, if he did do it, how did he end up dead by Tommy? Are we to assume Josh killed her and then turned to Tommy for refuge, who used that opportunity kill Josh and frame him for murder? Or - going on the theory Josh believed Tommy set him up to fail - did he fly into a rage, go to confront Tommy and meet his end then (with Tommy then stalking and murdering the critic, and rigging the rest to make it look like Josh did it and then fled/took his own life)?

4) Did I miss it being mentioned if the police checked Josh's cell phone records the day he disappeared? It would seem easy to connect who fed him the information about the food poisoning from that detail.

I know the episode ultimately wants us to focus more on G/E trying to discern the exact nature of the toxic relationship between Tommy, Beatrice and Josh (just an obsessive parent or, as it turned out, a predatory rapist of his own daughter) and then using their skills to earn her trust to tell them the truth and produce the evidence so that - rather than tie herself to a life of lording it over her father, she could get justice for her husband and free herself from her father forever.

But I keep feeling like there are holes in the first half that I'm either missing or are unexplained.

Thank you!

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

Was watching 'Death Roe' again yesterday (have seen it countless times) and there are still some plot points I am not clear on that I hope someone can help with:

1) When Josh gets the phone call about the food poisoning and goes into a rage, is it because the pending bad review will ruin his business or that he believes his father-in-law sabotaged him with bad/tainted fish?

2) Along those lines, the editor tells Goren and Eames that the critic did have food poisoning but doesn't a guest at the dinner later say no, he was the one who had the food poisoning. If there was no food poisoning (which jives with Josh being tricked into believing there was), why did the editor say there was?

3) We know Tommy murdered Josh but I'm still not clear on who killed the critic. Josh had the immediate motive; however, if he did do it, how did he end up dead by Tommy? Are we to assume Josh killed her and then turned to Tommy for refuge, who used that opportunity kill Josh and frame him for murder? Or - going on the theory Josh believed Tommy set him up to fail - did he fly into a rage, go to confront Tommy and meet his end then (with Tommy then stalking and murdering the critic, and rigging the rest to make it look like Josh did it and then fled/took his own life)?

4) Did I miss it being mentioned if the police checked Josh's cell phone records the day he disappeared? It would seem easy to connect who fed him the information about the food poisoning from that detail.

I know the episode ultimately wants us to focus more on G/E trying to discern the exact nature of the toxic relationship between Tommy, Beatrice and Josh (just an obsessive parent or, as it turned out, a predatory rapist of his own daughter) and then using their skills to earn her trust to tell them the truth and produce the evidence so that - rather than tie herself to a life of lording it over her father, she could get justice for her husband and free herself from her father forever.

But I keep feeling like there are holes in the first half that I'm either missing or are unexplained.

Thank you!

Tommy murdered the critic, just to set Josh up for it, that I know for sure. It’s been a while since I’ve seen the episode so I don’t know about cell phone records. The critic definitely had food poisoning, I can’t remember a scene where a guest at the dinner said he had it, the murdered critic definitely got sick, I remember ME Rodgers going over her hospital report with Goren/Eames. I don’t know about why Josh got so angry at the start. It’s a very complex episode, but I do like it a lot, Tommy was such an evil villain and it was interesting seeing Goren/Eames get to the bottom of the situation. 

[WendyCR72]

The son-in-law seemed more concerned with the bad review than his father-in-law. Tommy seemed to pretend to like him to his face, and Josh probably didn't realize Tommy's true feelings until it was too late.

Tommy got the tainted white abalone explicitly to ensure a bad review is my guess, and Sally the food critic did get food poisoning.

The show framed it like Sally was a tough critic, so the fact that she apparently had no bad review for Apice, the restaurant, seemed weird. I mean, I know the fish she had was something she had not had in forever since it was endangered/illegal, but even so, the restaurant did make her sick, even if Josh himself didn't do it.

And Eames mentioned Apice being in the red, so it was likely a start up, and Josh was upset because such a bad review could ruin the restaurant/his dreams of running one.

[Xeliou66]

Yes Tommy spiked the fish in order to make the critic sick to try to get a bad review, I think he planned on killing both Josh and the critic and set the whole plot in motion to try to make it look like Josh had motive for killing the critic. Which Josh did have, but apparently he went to Tommy and that’s when Tommy killed him and put him in the meat grinder. I also have a few questions about the episode, such as who did Tommy kill first, the critic or Josh? and how did Tommy get Josh to the restaurant and how did he pull it all off in one night? It would seem like there would be phone records between Tommy and Josh but I don’t think anyone said anything about it.

[TakomaSnark]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes Tommy spiked the fish in order to make the critic sick to try to get a bad review, I think he planned on killing both Josh and the critic and set the whole plot in motion to try to make it look like Josh had motive for killing the critic. Which Josh did have, but apparently he went to Tommy and that’s when Tommy killed him and put him in the meat grinder. I also have a few questions about the episode, such as who did Tommy kill first, the critic or Josh? and how did Tommy get Josh to the restaurant and how did he pull it all off in one night? It would seem like there would be phone records between Tommy and Josh but I don’t think anyone said anything about it.

Yes, that's what bugs me - it seems the steps of how Tommy committed both murders and more importantly, got to Josh after Josh went into that rage and went to confront the critic, are kind of hand-waved in favor of the back-half of the episode, about the Beatrice/Tommy relationship. The reason I thought maybe Josh finally snapped and realized passive-aggressive FIL had set Josh up with bad fish was that it was the only way I could get Josh into Tommy's orbit to be killed in the same window of time Sally was murdered. Tommy would have had Josh's boots and motorcycle already in hand before killing Sally, in order to plant them on the beach after.

But that's just my trying to make sense of it all.

I really like the episode set-up and performances but end up disappointed there wasn't more resolution to how the original crime (murder of the critic) was set-up and pulled off.

Edited November 17, 2022 by TakomaSnark
Expanding Thought

[WendyCR72]

Wow, WE is really skipping episodes these days. "The Third Horseman", episode 11 of S1, is the last episode for today's long Thursday marathon on WE.

But like last week, which skipped the rest of S10 after "The Consoler", the week AFTER next Thursday (because it is off next week for Thanksgiving!) on 12/01 has one episode in late night/early morning Thursday - Episode 5 of S2, "Chinoiserie" (the one where the mom originally from China is killed in front of her kids in Chinatown!), and continuing the long marathon from 11 a.m. 'til 8:00 p.m. that same day, going in order from that.

So, this time, the bulk of S1 is skipped, as are episodes 1 through 4 of S2 come December 1st.

[Xeliou66]

32 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Wow, WE is really skipping episodes these days. "The Third Horseman", episode 11 of S1, is the last episode for today's long Thursday marathon on WE.

But like last week, which skipped the rest of S10 after "The Consoler", the week AFTER next Thursday (because it is off next week for Thanksgiving!) on 12/01 has one episode in late night/early morning Thursday - Episode 5 of S2, "Chinoiseries" (the one where the mom originally from China killed in front of her kids in Chinatown!), and continuing the long marathon from 11 a.m. 'til 8:00 p.m. that same day, going in order from that.

So, this time, the bulk of S1 is skipped, as are episodes 1 through 4 of S2 come December 1st.

It’s very strange how they are skipping episodes, don’t know what’s with that.

I’ve been watching the season 1 marathon today, just finished watching The Third Horseman, that’s a very good episode, I really like all of the detective work done in tracking Griscom down and all, but Carver got on my nerves some, he was wrong to chastise Goren for calling Griscom a “terrorist” - that’s exactly what Griscom was, a fanatic and a domestic terrorist. Carver seemed a tad too concerned about what the anti-abortion crowd would feel about the case. I wonder if Griscom had succeeded in killing the judge, would Carver be so concerned about Goren’s language then? Somehow I doubt it. It was good thinking on Goren’s part to run Griscom’s name through the legal database to find out his next target. Deakins had a good role in the episode. 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

It’s very strange how they are skipping episodes, don’t know what’s with that.

I’ve been watching the season 1 marathon today, just finished watching The Third Horseman, that’s a very good episode, I really like all of the detective work done in tracking Griscom down and all, but Carver got on my nerves some, he was wrong to chastise Goren for calling Griscom a “terrorist” - that’s exactly what Griscom was, a fanatic and a domestic terrorist. Carver seemed a tad too concerned about what the anti-abortion crowd would feel about the case. I wonder if Griscom had succeeded in killing the judge, would Carver be so concerned about Goren’s language then? Somehow I doubt it. It was good thinking on Goren’s part to run Griscom’s name through the legal database to find out his next target. Deakins had a good role in the episode. 

Yeah, I think Carver allowed personal beliefs to cloud his objectivity in this case. Notice he didn't confirm or deny his stance when he and Eames (I think it was Eames!) debated about abortion and Carver just pivoted and mentioned finding evidence to get Griscom.

Carver also seemed to lack objectivity in "Best Defense" with the Bonhams.

Not putting him down. It makes him human with shades of gray, But it does present some obstacles.

[Xeliou66]

1 minute ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, I think Carver allowed personal beliefs to cloud his objectivity in this case. Notice he didn't confirm or deny his stance when he and Eames (I think it was Eames!) debated about abortion and Carver just pivoted and mentioned finding evidence to get Griscom.

Carver also seemed to lack objectivity in "Best Defense" with the Bonhams.

Not putting him down. It makes him human with shades of gray, But it does present some obstacles.

Agreed - Carver seemed to let his personal beliefs cloud his judgment, as Griscom was definitely a terrorist, and yeah he was probably anti-abortion. He should’ve handled the situation the way Ben Stone did in the Mothership episode Life Choice, where Stone revealed he was personally against abortion but told Schiff he could prosecute the case without bias and he did exactly that. And yes it was Eames who challenged him and Carver deflected.

I felt horrible for the victim and his family in this episode, and the victim’s daughter would have a lifetime of trauma from seeing her dad killed in front of her. Griscom was a real shitbag, as was his friend Cutler, the one who Goren pretended to empathize with, I hope he got charged with aiding Griscom but I don’t know if they could make a case against him.

[WendyCR72]

Yeah, Ben Stone approached that similar case in the proper mindset for a prosecutor.

I'd also like to think Cutler was charged with SOMETHING, but as you say, making a case against him wouldn't be easy...

[Xeliou66]

7 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, Ben Stone approached that similar case in the proper mindset for a prosecutor.

I'd also like to think Cutler was charged with SOMETHING, but as you say, making a case against him wouldn't be easy...

That’s one reason why I loved Stone was his professionalism and always handling things properly and by the book regardless of the circumstances. Usually Carver was like that but in this episode it seemed to cloud his judgment.

Cutler was despicable, but yeah a case against him would be challenging to make. 

[peacheslatour]

I watched The Third Horseman last night. I'm on the West coast so I see stuff later in the day and I gotta say, that was some amazing acting by VDO. He was just brilliant in this episode.

Edited November 19, 2022 by peacheslatour

[Xeliou66]

17 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I watched The Third Horeman last night. I'm on the West coast so I see stuff later in the day and I gotta say, that was some amazing acting by VDO. He was just brilliant in this episode.

I thought Goren/Eames were both terrific in that episode, I liked Eames passion over the case, and Goren was great as usual. Goren/Eames were such a great detective pairing.

[WendyCR72]

16 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I thought Goren/Eames were both terrific in that episode, I liked Eames passion over the case, and Goren was great as usual. Goren/Eames were such a great detective pairing.

I liked the chat about abortion when Alex asked Bobby what he really thought, he tried to deflect, saying he'd answer when he got pregnant, then Alex telling Bobby he'd have to do a lot better than that.

Good way to explore both characters a bit without getting ham handed, and useful since it was the first season and Bobby and Alex were still taking shape, so to speak.

[Xeliou66]

In The Wee Small Hours was on this morning and I caught part 2 of it, it’s my favorite CI episode as I’ve said before. I love the scene where Goren confronts pervert Judge Garrett and provokes him into admitting he had sex with the 16 year old victim while she couldn’t consent, as I’ve said before I admire Goren’s restraint after Garrett sent one of his minions after his mother, it would’ve been easy for Goren to beat Garrett to a pulp and I can’t say I would’ve blamed him if he had, but instead Goren used his anger to provoke Garrett into incriminating himself, it was a great scene.  
I also love the Carver/Branch scenes, I liked when Arthur said he would promote Carver to bureau chief if he wanted to.  
The Garrett’s were such trash, I’m not sure who was worse, “Hot Tub Harry” or Elise, both were despicable. Ethan was no good himself but given who his parents were, it’s sadly no surprise.  
It’s an outstanding episode.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

 I admire Goren’s restraint after Garrett sent one of his minions after his mother, it would’ve been easy for Goren to beat Garrett to a pulp and I can’t say I would’ve blamed him if he had, but instead Goren used his anger to provoke Garrett into incriminating himself, it was a great scene.  

And Eames and Carver's reactions were just perfect too.

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

And Eames and Carver's reactions were just perfect too.

Agreed. And as I’ve said before I liked how they did the bit about Eames initially requesting a new partner, and how that revelation didn’t cause conflict between Goren/Eames but Goren agreed he was an “acquired taste” and said he was glad Eames withdrew her letter, and Carver was able to mitigate the damage by redirecting Eames and getting her to talk about how she came to respect Goren’s abilities.

Really everything about that episode was done excellently, it’s why it’s my personal favorite episode with a lot of great stuff.

[peacheslatour]

10 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed. And as I’ve said before I liked how they did the bit about Eames initially requesting a new partner, and how that revelation didn’t cause conflict between Goren/Eames but Goren agreed he was an “acquired taste” and said he was glad Eames withdrew her letter, and Carver was able to mitigate the damage by redirecting Eames and getting her to talk about how she came to respect Goren’s abilities.

Really everything about that episode was done excellently, it’s why it’s my personal favorite episode with a lot of great stuff.

A lot of people don't like the sccene in that episode where Goren felt like he was going to hurt her career and she says -

"It used to,"

"And now?"

"It's too late."

Isn't her being dismissive or cold to him. It's that her ambitions don't lie that way and she values working with him more than she does her career.

[Xeliou66]

18 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

A lot of people don't like the sccene in that episode where Goren felt like he was going to hurt her career and she says -

"It used to,"

"And now?"

"It's too late."

Isn't her being dismissive or cold to him. It's that her ambitions don't lie that way and she values working with him more than she does her career.

That was from a totally different episode, in season 7, once they started portraying Goren as a “wacko” who was disliked by the bosses, which was so stupid and made no sense because Goren had solved a lot of cases and was a brilliant detective so it made no sense why the bosses would have disdain for him. I didn’t care for those lines either, mainly because I just really disliked how they portrayed Goren in seasons 6-7. So glad Goren got back to his real self by the end of the show, and while I know most people hate Eames’ appearances on SVU, I did like how she had made Lieutenant in those episodes, I just wish they hadn’t thrown in the stupid lines about Goren “moving on” or at least clarified what Goren was doing.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

A lot of people don't like the sccene in that episode where Goren felt like he was going to hurt her career and she says -

"It used to,"

"And now?"

"It's too late."

Isn't her being dismissive or cold to him. It's that her ambitions don't lie that way and she values working with him more than she does her career.

It turned out that way, that Goren meant more to her than the job (IMO!), hence Eames turning down being captain and quitting in S9 in "Loyalty". (UGH!)

BUT...

I do think the "It's too late!" crap was something Warren Leight approved to pile on unnecessary angst, mainly because Eames sounded sort of resigned when she said that. I have made it absolutely no secret that I HATE that scene and think it was wildly out of character.

But Eames' actions in S9 more than made up for it.

46 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

That was from a totally different episode, in season 7, once they started portraying Goren as a “wacko” who was disliked by the bosses, which was so stupid and made no sense because Goren had solved a lot of cases and was a brilliant detective so it made no sense why the bosses would have disdain for him. I didn’t care for those lines either, mainly because I just really disliked how they portrayed Goren in seasons 6-7. So glad Goren got back to his real self by the end of the show, and while I know most people hate Eames’ appearances on SVU, I did like how she had made Lieutenant in those episodes, I just wish they hadn’t thrown in the stupid lines about Goren “moving on” or at least clarified what Goren was doing.

If Eames had to appear on SVU, I'm also glad she did make Lieutenant - and used Goren's interrogation technique with getting in a suspect's face and the lean!

But yeah, like you, I still will never buy that "Goren moved on". He made it more than clear to Paula Gyson that he wanted to keep his job. And - this is my own bias, which I freely admit to! - I doubt he would have just dropped all contact with Eames. Nope. Don't buy that. Especially since he was ornery in S3 when she was gone to have her sister's baby, not to mention "Blind Spot".

But Warren Leight loves/loved unnecessary crap, so... *shrug*

[Xeliou66]

4 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

It turned out that way, that Goren meant more to her than the job (IMO!), hence Eames turning down being captain and quitting in S9 in "Loyalty". (UGH!)

BUT...

I do think the "It's too late!" crap was something Warren Leight approved to pile on unnecessary angst, mainly because Eames sounded sort of resigned when she said that. I have made it absolutely no secret that I HATE that scene and think it was wildly out of character.

But Eames' actions in S9 more than made up for it.

If Eames had to appear on SVU, I'm also glad she did make Lieutenant - and used Goren's interrogation technique with getting in a suspect's face and the lean!

But yeah, like you, I still will never buy that "Goren moved on". He made it more than clear to Paula Gyson that he wanted to keep his job. And - this is my own bias, which I freely admit to! - I doubt he would have just dropped all contact with Eames. Nope. Don't buy that. Especially since he was ornery in S3 when she was gone to have her sister's baby, not to mention "Blind Spot".

But Warren Leight loves/loved unnecessary crap, so... *shrug*

I wasn’t sure if Goren had dropped all contact with Eames, just that he had moved on from his job. But yeah Warren absolutely loved soapy crap and he wrecked CI with it and brought a lot of it onto SVU as well. He is a terrible show runner for the most part, and I absolutely hate what he did with Goren on CI.

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, Xeliou66 said:

I wasn’t sure if Goren had dropped all contact with Eames, just that he had moved on from his job. But yeah Warren absolutely loved soapy crap and he wrecked CI with it and brought a lot of it onto SVU as well. He is a terrible show runner for the most part, and I absolutely hate what he did with Goren on CI.

At least, as was said, Goren seemed to get his groove back in S10. Loved his impersonating the fashion designer on the phone in "Rispetto", and the wide smile he gave Eames when he handed her phone back to her.

It was nice seeing Goren having some fun again.

[Xeliou66]

23 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

At least, as was said, Goren seemed to get his groove back in S10. Loved his impersonating the fashion designer on the phone in "Rispetto", and the wide smile he gave Eames when he handed her phone back to her.

It was nice seeing Goren having some fun again.

Agreed, it was awesome seeing Goren get his mojo back in season 10. I would love to see Goren again, I wish they would make a CI movie with Goren/Eames or something, it’s unlikely but I never thought the Mothership would return for more seasons, so anything is possible. And they did name drop Goren in season 22 of SVU, so it was nice to see they hadn’t forgotten him, and everyone knew who he was despite only Barek having met him probably. So you never know, the Mothership is back with Jack McCoy on our screens every week, who’s to say we won’t see Goren or Eames again? 

[WendyCR72]

26 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed, it was awesome seeing Goren get his mojo back in season 10. I would love to see Goren again, I wish they would make a CI movie with Goren/Eames or something, it’s unlikely but I never thought the Mothership would return for more seasons, so anything is possible. And they did name drop Goren in season 22 of SVU, so it was nice to see they hadn’t forgotten him, and everyone knew who he was despite only Barek having met him probably. So you never know, the Mothership is back with Jack McCoy on our screens every week, who’s to say we won’t see Goren or Eames again? 

That would be nice. But only a movie, if it ever could happen. Not because I am tired of G/E, but a movie makes things far less likely for TPTB to tarnish the characters/CI as a whole!

[WendyCR72]

Someone mentioned a show called Work In Progress, where the lead character crushes on Bobby Goren and mentioned how VDO revived Bobby for this show. Never heard of it, but coincidentally, a video on YT popped up from it in my recommendations.

My VPN is currently on, so I don't know if this video will be accessible in the US. I'll turn it off to see if it is.

If not, well...I tried. 😋

[peacheslatour]

4 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Someone mentioned a show called Work In Progress, where the lead character crushes on Bobby Goren and mentioned how VDO revived Bobby for this show. Never heard of it, but coincidentally, a video on YT popped up from it in my recommendations.

My VPN is currently on, so I don't know if this video will be accessible in the US. I'll turn it off to see if it is.

If not, well...I tried. 😋

Thank you! OMG, that's the best thing I've seen in ages! Oh Bobby, be still my heart.

[Xeliou66]

Tomorrow was just on, this is a memorable episode with a unique plot of the 2 nannies living out a soap opera, really interesting how Goren and Eames got to the bottom of the situation and figured out their plot. I do wonder though about Goren/Eames/Carver plotting to drive a wedge between Hannah/Sara, and just how ethical/legal that was, I thought their might be repercussions for them with how Bill Davenport hired a lawyer for Sara and paid her bail just as part of the scheme, and I assume as soon as Hannah flipped on Sara he would stop paying for the lawyer and her bail would be revoked, it just seems like there might’ve been blowback for their scheme, and they are fortunate it worked and that Davenport went along with it. I really wish the scene with Emil Skoda had been kept in the episode, because it helped flesh out the nannies motivations and their obsession with Davenport, and Skoda was great as usual.

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Tomorrow was just on, this is a memorable episode with a unique plot of the 2 nannies living out a soap opera, really interesting how Goren and Eames got to the bottom of the situation and figured out their plot. I do wonder though about Goren/Eames/Carver plotting to drive a wedge between Hannah/Sara, and just how ethical/legal that was, I thought their might be repercussions for them with how Bill Davenport hired a lawyer for Sara and paid her bail just as part of the scheme, and I assume as soon as Hannah flipped on Sara he would stop paying for the lawyer and her bail would be revoked, it just seems like there might’ve been blowback for their scheme, and they are fortunate it worked and that Davenport went along with it. I really wish the scene with Emil Skoda had been kept in the episode, because it helped flesh out the nannies motivations and their obsession with Davenport, and Skoda was great as usual.

And both Merritt Wever and Tammy Blanchard, who played the sisters, have gone on to great careers. I recall that Blanchard (Sarah) also played a young Judy Garland in some movie.

But yeah, the father of the victims actively aiding one of the killers (even if for a ploy) was certainly not a great look.

[Xeliou66]

22 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

And both Merritt Wever and Tammy Blanchard, who played the sisters, have gone on to great careers. I recall that Blanchard (Sarah) also played a young Judy Garland in some movie.

But yeah, the father of the victims actively aiding one of the killers (even if for a ploy) was certainly not a great look.

I’ve always wondered about that ending - how was the father able to fake it so well to act like he would go to bat for one of the people who killed his children? And it seems like that the whole “hiring a lawyer and paying for Sara’s bail” stunt could’ve backfired on them big time, if it hadn‘t driven a wedge between them would what’ve happened and how long could the father keep up the act? And even though it did work, it seems like it could’ve caused ethical trouble for Carver and possible claims of entrapment, and especially since they were talking to Hannah at the end without her lawyer present. I would guess Hannah would take a plea and agree to testify and then Sara would take a plea as well probably, but it seems like their stunt could’ve gone bad.

I do like the episode a lot, it’s very memorable and unique, but it was stupid of them to cut Skoda’s scene, because his scene helped explain the psyche of the nannies and why they were so fixated on the soap opera and on Davenport and how they became violent when their fantasy was threatened. A lot of it was left up to the viewers to unpack what went down and Skoda’s scene shed some light on it, plus it’s always awesome to see Skoda. 

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’ve always wondered about that ending - how was the father able to fake it so well to act like he would go to bat for one of the people who killed his children? And it seems like that the whole “hiring a lawyer and paying for Sara’s bail” stunt could’ve backfired on them big time, if it hadn‘t driven a wedge between them would what’ve happened and how long could the father keep up the act? And even though it did work, it seems like it could’ve caused ethical trouble for Carver and possible claims of entrapment, and especially since they were talking to Hannah at the end without her lawyer present. I would guess Hannah would take a plea and agree to testify and then Sara would take a plea as well probably, but it seems like their stunt could’ve gone bad.

I do like the episode a lot, it’s very memorable and unique, but it was stupid of them to cut Skoda’s scene, because his scene helped explain the psyche of the nannies and why they were so fixated on the soap opera and on Davenport and how they became violent when their fantasy was threatened. A lot of it was left up to the viewers to unpack what went down and Skoda’s scene shed some light on it, plus it’s always awesome to see Skoda. 

I really wish Skoda's scene was left in, too.

But that ending makes me wonder - still! - if it was a mere ploy or if the father sort of felt sorry for Sarah. The show seemed to frame it like Sarah was under her sister's thrall, even if it wasn't strictly the case. Even the wife said how Sarah was appreciative about the sweater they bought her as a gift, and then how her sister was seen wearing it, etc.

So, I wonder if that lawyer was indeed fired or if the father's pity went that deep for Sarah or not. Hope not, as those were his kids as the victims. But people can be complicated...

[Xeliou66]

1 minute ago, WendyCR72 said:

I really wish Skoda's scene was left in, too.

But that ending makes me wonder - still! - if it was a mere ploy or if the father sort of felt sorry for Sarah. The show seemed to frame it like Sarah was under her sister's thrall, even if it wasn't strictly the case. Even the wife said how Sarah was appreciative about the sweater they bought her as a gift, and then how her sister was seen wearing it, etc.

So, I wonder if that lawyer was indeed fired or if the father's pity went that deep for Sarah or not. Hope not, as those were his kids as the victims. But people can be complicated...

I’m pretty sure it was a complete ploy, I don’t think the victim’s father felt any sympathy for Sarah, I’m pretty sure he just pretended to be sympathetic so they could drive a wedge between Sarah/Hannah. But the plot was complex and could’ve backfired.

[WendyCR72]

20 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m pretty sure it was a complete ploy, I don’t think the victim’s father felt any sympathy for Sarah, I’m pretty sure he just pretended to be sympathetic so they could drive a wedge between Sarah/Hannah. But the plot was complex and could’ve backfired.

Like I said before, the actress playing the stepmother to the victims in "Tomorrow" returned as Debra Brite in "Rispetto" in S10. The franchise certainly liked to recycle actors.

[WendyCR72]

"Zoonotic" just ended, leading to the last episode of today's marathon, "Person of Interest". Odd how the virus/toxin count in the last - concerning G/E - somehow connected to this one.

Just wish more was done with that, instead of dragging Nicole (UGH!) into it.

[WendyCR72]

Someone just recently posted this video of some of Bobby's best "Bobby-isms", I guess. Thought it was amusing, so putting it here:

[Xeliou66]

On 12/8/2022 at 7:05 PM, WendyCR72 said:

"Zoonotic" just ended, leading to the last episode of today's marathon, "Person of Interest". Odd how the virus/toxin count in the last - concerning G/E - somehow connected to this one.

Just wish more was done with that, instead of dragging Nicole (UGH!) into it.

Yep, had they not dragged Nicole into it it would’ve been a lot more interesting. I’ve always said though I found the ending of Zoonotic to be stupid - no way would the higher ups let the murder of an officer go unpunished, regardless of how Goren/Eames felt, the bosses and the media would demand answers and the 2 creep doctors would’ve been charged with the murder. And frankly it was OOC for Goren/Eames to not want the doctors charged, and the L&O franchise has always been about trying to see justice done, not protect the reputation of the victim or anyone else, so I found the whole ending stupid. 

[WendyCR72]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yep, had they not dragged Nicole into it it would’ve been a lot more interesting. I’ve always said though I found the ending of Zoonotic to be stupid - no way would the higher ups let the murder of an officer go unpunished, regardless of how Goren/Eames felt, the bosses and the media would demand answers and the 2 creep doctors would’ve been charged with the murder. And frankly it was OOC for Goren/Eames to not want the doctors charged, and the L&O franchise has always been about trying to see justice done, not protect the reputation of the victim or anyone else, so I found the whole ending stupid. 

Yeah, I recall the debate we had regarding this. I'm still in the camp that the sickos would be in prison for a long time with the viruses and targeting women. So, since it was made clear they would be old geezers IF they ever got out, I could see why G/E wanted to shield the cop's minor daughter and not jeopardize any pension her father had that would likely contribute to her support.

And I'm not certain the department would be too concerned about the cop's murder since he was dirty, and the PD seems to cover stuff like that up, so as to not give the department "a black eye". Sucks, but politics is ripe in cases like that, or so the franchise would have one believe.

I would think the department at large would be worried about the discrepancy in the toxin counts, as G/E were. That rang false that it was just sort of shrugged off.

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, I recall the debate we had regarding this. I'm still in the camp that the sickos would be in prison for a long time with the viruses and targeting women. So, since it was made clear they would be old geezers IF they ever got out, I could see why G/E wanted to shield the cop's minor daughter and not jeopardize any pension her father had that would likely contribute to her support.

And I'm not certain the department would be too concerned about the cop's murder since he was dirty, and the PD seems to cover stuff like that up, so as to not give the department "a black eye". Sucks, but politics is ripe in cases like that, or so the franchise would have one believe.

I would think the department at large would be worried about the discrepancy in the toxin counts, as G/E were. That rang false that it was just sort of shrugged off.

I could buy Goren/Eames wanting to not jeopardize the pension for the cop’s family, but I don’t buy at all the idea that the police higher ups or especially the DA’s office would go along with it - when a law enforcement officer is murdered, everyone demands the case be closed and an arrest be made, no way would they let the case be closed without an arrest and go on the books as officially unsolved. Same with the DA’s office - Arthur Branch would’ve been DA at the time and he would want to send a message and punish the killers as harshly as possible and would’ve ordered Carver to charge them, and I think the by the book Carver would’ve wanted them charged as well. So the entire ending rang very false to me and just didn’t seem realistic or very much like L&O. 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I could buy Goren/Eames wanting to not jeopardize the pension for the cop’s family, but I don’t buy at all the idea that the police higher ups or especially the DA’s office would go along with it - when a law enforcement officer is murdered, everyone demands the case be closed and an arrest be made, no way would they let the case be closed without an arrest and go on the books as officially unsolved. Same with the DA’s office - Arthur Branch would’ve been DA at the time and he would want to send a message and punish the killers as harshly as possible and would’ve ordered Carver to charge them, and I think the by the book Carver would’ve wanted them charged as well. So the entire ending rang very false to me and just didn’t seem realistic or very much like L&O. 

Well, optics being what they are/were in police land, it could be argued that Branch also wouldn't be too concerned with a "dirty" cop.

And, as much as I like Carver, he answered to Arthur - not to mention, some of Carver's own judgment calls weren't the best. See: "Magnificat" and "Best Defense" (the latter with his personal connections).

Continue to agree to disagree where the end to "Zoonotic" is concerned! 😎

[Xeliou66]

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, optics being what they are/were in police land, it could be argued that Branch also wouldn't be too concerned with a "dirty" cop.

And, as much as I like Carver, he answered to Arthur - not to mention, some of Carver's own judgment calls weren't the best. See: "Magnificat" and "Best Defense" (the latter with his personal connections).

Continue to agree to disagree where the end to "Zoonotic" is concerned! 😎

Yeah we’ll just have to agree to disagree about the ending to Zoonotic, because I just don’t see the higher ups ever letting the murder of a law enforcement officer go unpunished, dirty or not. 

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah we’ll just have to agree to disagree about the ending to Zoonotic, because I just don’t see the higher ups ever letting the murder of a law enforcement officer go unpunished, dirty or not. 

Well, they weren't unpunished, strictly. They were going to prison for decades. It kind of sounds to me like something I often hear when watching real crime shows: One example was a woman that killed her second husband. Seems her first hubby died under similar circumstances.

But since the woman was convicted and spending life in prison for that murder, it was decided not to pursue charges for hubby #1.

So it happens.

[Xeliou66]

5 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, they weren't unpunished, strictly. They were going to prison for decades. It kind of sounds to me like something I often hear when watching real crime shows: One example was a woman that killed her second husband. Seems her first hubby died under similar circumstances.

But since the woman was convicted and spending life in prison for that murder, it was decided not to pursue charges for hubby #1.

So it happens.

Yeah I just meant not charged with the officer’s death, I just didn’t buy that part at all, it’s always a big deal when a law enforcement officer is murdered and so regardless of motive or circumstances I believe charges would be brought against the killers, so we’ll have to agree to disagree about Zoonotic. That episode had a really interesting premise so it’s too bad the ending and then the next episode becoming about Nicole weakened everything. 

[WendyCR72]

'Tis the season and all, so I was watching Scrooged, the 1988 movie with Bill Murray as the Scrooge character, and early in the movie, his character, Frank, is greeted by an acquaintance, Bryce Cummings.

It's John Glover (Declan Gage)! The only recognizable part of him was the eyes, as he had floppy blonde hair in this! Here is a screencap. His voice was a lot less raspy, too. But, you know, 34 years ago, in 1988...