Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Another recurring character that I liked seeing on both the Mothership and CI was ballistics expert Arlene Shrier - she appeared in 16 episodes of the Mothership starting all the way back in season 2, and she appeared in 3 CI episodes : Crazy from season 1, Consumed in season 3 and The Unblinking Eye in season 4. I really liked the continuity there and she was a good character. 

Yep, I remember her well. The Mothership S2 episode she appeared in, "Wages of Love", was the take on the Broderick murders where Shirley Knight's character kept whining how she and her hubby "were married for 25 yeeeeeeears!". I remember Logan mentioning Shrier could do card tricks, too (after mentioning gun registration stuff), to Ceretta.

So when she popped up on Criminal Intent a few times, it was pretty cool. It actually felt like this show was part of the franchise rather than off on its own island as seemed to happen later.

[peacheslatour]

7 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yep, I remember her well. The Mothership S2 episode she appeared in, "Wages of Love", was the take on the Broderick murders where Shirley Knight's character kept whining how she and her hubby "were married for 25 yeeeeeeears!". I remember Logan mentioning Shrier could do card tricks, too (after mentioning gun registration stuff), to Ceretta.

So when she popped up on Criminal Intent a few times, it was pretty cool. It actually felt like this show was part of the franchise rather than off on its own island as seemed to happen later.

I was so happy to see Eames show up on SVU. Her using Goren's interview methods on a suspect was a joy to behold.

[WendyCR72]

26 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I was so happy to see Eames show up on SVU. Her using Goren's interview methods on a suspect was a joy to behold.

Yeah, I didn't like it, because it negated CI and its end. Bobby loved his job and wanted to keep it. Then Leight has Bobby in Maine so Olivia can have someone to whine to about Elliot and how their partners left them and...yuck. So I mind wiped it away out of existence.

But glad you liked it! Really.

Something for everyone.  🙂

"Frame" is on, and there's a hole I missed and have never seen mentioned!

You all recall Nicole was at the flower shop with her crocodile tears ordering bunches of bouquets for Bobby and Gwen and the florist mentioned another. Well, that one was obviously Declan's. However, I think it was supposed to be Declan waiting in the car she motioned to.

And the syringe G/E had showed she was interrupted in killing him with poison, so why and how the hell could Declan get that "get well" bouquet since she ordered it earlier and Declan was supposed to be dead?

Oops!

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yep, I remember her well. The Mothership S2 episode she appeared in, "Wages of Love", was the take on the Broderick murders where Shirley Knight's character kept whining how she and her hubby "were married for 25 yeeeeeeears!". I remember Logan mentioning Shrier could do card tricks, too (after mentioning gun registration stuff), to Ceretta.

So when she popped up on Criminal Intent a few times, it was pretty cool. It actually felt like this show was part of the franchise rather than off on its own island as seemed to happen later.

Yes, The Wages of Love was Shrier’s first appearance in the franchise, that was of course a memorable episode for both the whiny bitch perp and for Jerry Orbach playing the defense lawyer, but yeah Shrier appeared quite a few times on the Mothership and it was nice to see her pop up on CI 3 times as well. I loved it when they had characters from the different L&O shows crossover, or even when they mentioned a character from one of the other shows. 

34 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, I didn't like it, because it negated CI and its end. Bobby loved his job and wanted to keep it. Then Leight has Bobby in Maine so Olivia can have someone to whine to about Elliot and how their partners left them and...yuck. So I mind wiped it away out of existence.

But glad you liked it! Really.

Something for everyone.  🙂

"Frame" is on, and there's a hole I missed and have never seen mentioned!

You all recall Nicole was at the flower shop with her crocodile tears ordering bunches of bouquets for Bobby and Gwen and the florist mentioned another. Well, that one was obviously Declan's. However, I think it was supposed to be Declan waiting in the car she motioned to.

And the syringe G/E had showed she was interrupted in killing him with poison, so why and how the hell could Declan get that "get well" bouquet since she ordered it earlier and Declan was supposed to be dead?

Oops!

I don’t remember SVU saying where Goren was, where did you get it that he was in Maine? I admit it’s been a long time since I’ve seen the episode, but all I remember them saying was that Goren had “moved on”. I have mixed feelings about Eames’ appearance on SVU, I liked seeing her again and her interacting with the SVU characters and I liked the crossover continuity element, but I didn’t like how they undid CI’s ending, I felt like they could’ve had Eames appear without mentioning that Goren had moved on from the Major Case Squad. 

Interesting plot hole you mention in Frame, I’ve never caught it, I guess because I hate that episode and that storyline, I’ve said many times how utterly ridiculous I found the Nicole episodes to be, especially as the storyline went on, the main thing that’s memorable about Frame is Ross being an ass (as usual) and Goren going bonkers on Rodgers, that was the only compelling part of the episode IMO.

[WendyCR72]

22 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I don’t remember SVU saying where Goren was, where did you get it that he was in Maine?

Maybe that wasn't in the episode, but there was stuff that did not make the episode eons ago, bonus stuff. And if I recall, Eames told...someone...that Goren had gone to Maine to write a book.

[Xeliou66]

29 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Maybe that wasn't in the episode, but there was stuff that did not make the episode eons ago, bonus stuff. And if I recall, Eames told...someone...that Goren had gone to Maine to write a book.

Interesting, so there were deleted scenes from the episode? I never knew that, I wish that had made the episode, I would’ve liked to have known where Goren was instead of them just saying he moved on.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I LOATHED that SVU episode because not only was Eames not herself-she had her own style of questioning which I liked-but she used Goren’s “leaning” there. And the conversation between her and Olivia was that inference that Goren had “abandoned” her and there was something more than respect, friendship, and partnership between them.🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And the conversation between her and Olivia was that inference that Goren had “abandoned” her and there was something more than respect, friendship, and partnership between them.

As I said above, I hated that talk. but for myself, I do think the relationship was a lot more complex. Still, as I also said, that interpretation is up to each viewer. I did like Eames taking a page from Goren's interrogation style, because she had seen it was effective.

But the entire events around the SVU appearances just made me ragey at how it undid CI, so...*shrug*

Why the show just couldn't have Goren undercover again or out of town while Eames helped Benson, I don't understand. (Well, that talk, but yuck.)

The one cameo I wish we could have seen more than once is with Lennie, but Jerry Orbach's health and subsequent death made that impossible.  😞 I liked the bit with Green/Briscoe and G/E in "Poison".

But then, this franchise has forever been hit or miss regarding writing out characters. I hate what SVU did to reverse Goren wanting to keep his job (and he did!), but it didn't treat Jesse L. Martin's Ed Green's exit that much better on the Mothership, IMO. (Gambling again, being investigated, etc. Ed was a good cop and that whole bit sucked. So at least Bobby Goren was in good company. At least Mike Logan - while quitting - left on his terms, more or less.)

[WendyCR72]

On another note, there is a brief glimpse of VDO in the trailer video for the upcoming Netflix series, Ratched, towards the tail end of the video.

 

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

As I said above, I hated that talk. but for myself, I do think the relationship was a lot more complex. Still, as I also said, that interpretation is up to each viewer. I did like Eames taking a page from Goren's interrogation style, because she had seen it was effective.

But the entire events around the SVU appearances just made me ragey at how it undid CI, so...*shrug*

Why the show just couldn't have Goren undercover again or out of town while Eames helped Benson, I don't understand. (Well, that talk, but yuck.)

The one cameo I wish we could have seen more than once is with Lennie, but Jerry Orbach's health and subsequent death made that impossible.  😞 I liked the bit with Green/Briscoe and G/E in "Poison".

But then, this franchise has forever been hit or miss regarding writing out characters. I hate what SVU did to reverse Goren wanting to keep his job (and he did!), but it didn't treat Jesse L. Martin's Ed Green's exit that much better on the Mothership, IMO. (Gambling again, being investigated, etc. Ed was a good cop and that whole bit sucked. So at least Bobby Goren was in good company. At least Mike Logan - while quitting - left on his terms, more or less.)

It’s too bad Briscoe and Green only appeared once on CI, I would’ve liked to have seen another cameo by them on the show, their appearance in Poison was awesome. But yeah it’s really a shame that Orbach’s death prevented Lennie from appearing later on in a Logan episode, I would’ve LOVED for Briscoe and Logan to have interacted again, especially since their last interaction we saw was in that awful movie where Lennie was so OOC. At least we got to see Logan talking about Lennie and how he still thinks about him in Renewal (that was the best part of that bizarre episode). 

And yeah the franchise has always been hit or miss with writing out characters - Green’s exit on the Mothership pissed me off with how he had to leave because his reputation was in ruins, he was a great character and deserved a better send off. And also the infamous Serena “is this because I’m a lesbian” exit was really strange. Other than that the Mothership did a good job with exits - Lennie’s exit was perfect and for the most part they kept the character exits low key but they did a good job with them. And SVU has always been hit or miss with exits as well - Cragen and Munch got great send offs, but don’t get me started on how awful the exits for Barba and Peter Stone were. 

 

[WendyCR72]

57 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I would’ve LOVED for Briscoe and Logan to have interacted again

Pretty much this.

[peacheslatour]

14 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

On another note, there is a brief glimpse of VDO in the trailer video for the upcoming Netflix series, Ratched, towards the tail end of the video.

 

Sarah Paulson as Nurse Ratched? Hell yes!

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Sarah Paulson as Nurse Ratched? Hell yes!

Cynthia Nixon (also in a brief snippet) appeared, obviously on CI in "Icarus" in S10 as the "other" Amanda Rollins, alcoholic Broadway producer. So between Nixon, Paulson (who appeared on the Mothership eons ago!) and VDO, it's like a little mini franchise reunion!  🙂

[Dirtybubble]

21 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Sarah Paulson as Nurse Ratched? Hell yes!

Ryan Murphy behind the wheel Hell NOO!  I'll wait to see the reviews before I watch it.  Loved Ryan Murphy in the early 2000s but lately his AHS have flopped (1984) and he seems to have lost his mojo.  I had to watch the preview a couple of times to see VDO in there but finally did catch him towards the end.

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, Dirtybubble said:

Ryan Murphy behind the wheel Hell NOO!  I'll wait to see the reviews before I watch it.  Loved Ryan Murphy in the early 2000s but lately his AHS have flopped (1984) and he seems to have lost his mojo.  I had to watch the preview a couple of times to see VDO in there but finally did catch him towards the end.

Ryan Murphy is why I am hesitant about watching this. But we'll see. I guess Netflix gave this a two-season order, so there will be one following this one, regardless.

I know VDO mused about revisiting Goren on his Twitter feed in April. I'm 90% sure he was just spitballing, and maybe COVID would prevent it, but that is what I would frankly be interested in...providing Eames returned in some capacity (which VDO also told someone he wanted when asked...) and as long as Bobby doesn't die.

But since Stabler is now back, maybe Wolf would only want to tackle that right now. And, again, maybe it was just talk.

[peacheslatour]

Is it just me or was Wheeler a lot more aggressive with suspects after she was partnered with Nichols?

[Sigmagirl]

"Lady's Man": Boz Burnham gets out of his frozen ocean birthday dip to find a redhead with a gun standing between him and his clothes. If he had just been stung by a jellyfish, wouldn’t he be exhibiting some distress about that? 
I just watched that scene very carefully. He seemed pretty happy coming out of the water and there was no mark on his left shoulder. So Mulrooney brought the jellyfish with him and got it to bite Boz as he was dying?

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

"Lady's Man": Boz Burnham gets out of his frozen ocean birthday dip to find a redhead with a gun standing between him and his clothes. If he had just been stung by a jellyfish, wouldn’t he be exhibiting some distress about that? 
I just watched that scene very carefully. He seemed pretty happy coming out of the water and there was no mark on his left shoulder. So Mulrooney brought the jellyfish with him and got it to bite Boz as he was dying?

Maybe his shield of evil protected him! (He did kill his first wife, after all!)

Still love the scene where Bobby was on Faith Yancy's case about how Boz got his hosting gig, so much as to steal her seat and then having to duck the camera.  🙂

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Maybe his shield of evil protected him! (He did kill his first wife, after all!)

Still love the scene where Bobby was on Faith Yancy's case about how Boz got his hosting gig, so much as to steal her seat and then having to duck the camera.  🙂

Lady’s Man is probably the weirdest episode in CI history - the whole thing was just wacko with the unstable psycho ADA and his ties to Eames and him cutting off his victims genitals, the whole thing was seriously strange and weird, but I liked the episode nonetheless. 

I love the scene where Goren questions Faith Yancy as well, very funny, I liked the Faith Yancy character in that she added an interesting dynamic with the media commentary on their cases and the actress looked and sounded like Nancy Grace. 

I loved that they referenced Jack McCoy in Lady’s Man!!!! As I’ve said many times, I love the continuity between the shows, and in its later seasons CI seemed to be out on its own, so I loved that they mentioned McCoy. It’s a real shame McCoy never appeared on CI, I would’ve loved to have seen him interact with and work a case with Carver, or in the later seasons drop into the squad room to discuss a high profile case that he would be involved with as DA. McCoy was only referenced a couple of times on the show so it was nice to hear them say his name in Lady’s Man.

[Ambrosefolly]

12 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Lady’s Man is probably the weirdest episode in CI history - the whole thing was just wacko with the unstable psycho ADA and his ties to Eames and him cutting off his victims genitals, the whole thing was seriously strange and weird, but I liked the episode nonetheless. 

I love the scene where Goren questions Faith Yancy as well, very funny, I liked the Faith Yancy character in that she added an interesting dynamic with the media commentary on their cases and the actress looked and sounded like Nancy Grace. 

I loved that they referenced Jack McCoy in Lady’s Man!!!! As I’ve said many times, I love the continuity between the shows, and in its later seasons CI seemed to be out on its own, so I loved that they mentioned McCoy. It’s a real shame McCoy never appeared on CI, I would’ve loved to have seen him interact with and work a case with Carver, or in the later seasons drop into the squad room to discuss a high profile case that he would be involved with as DA. McCoy was only referenced a couple of times on the show so it was nice to hear them say his name in Lady’s Man.

Nothing against Linus Roche, but I wish that they offered the mothership's ADA role to Carver.

[WendyCR72]

16 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Lady’s Man is probably the weirdest episode in CI history - the whole thing was just wacko with the unstable psycho ADA and his ties to Eames and him cutting off his victims genitals, the whole thing was seriously strange and weird, but I liked the episode nonetheless. 

I love the scene where Goren questions Faith Yancy as well, very funny, I liked the Faith Yancy character in that she added an interesting dynamic with the media commentary on their cases and the actress looked and sounded like Nancy Grace. 

I loved that they referenced Jack McCoy in Lady’s Man!!!! As I’ve said many times, I love the continuity between the shows, and in its later seasons CI seemed to be out on its own, so I loved that they mentioned McCoy. It’s a real shame McCoy never appeared on CI, I would’ve loved to have seen him interact with and work a case with Carver, or in the later seasons drop into the squad room to discuss a high profile case that he would be involved with as DA. McCoy was only referenced a couple of times on the show so it was nice to hear them say his name in Lady’s Man.

I know Logan and McCoy butted heads on the Mothership. But I would have loved to see how McCoy (who's pretty conventional in manner) reacted to Goren's quirkiness. Eames would have probably been the buffer, keeping diplomacy going.  🙂

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I know Logan and McCoy butted heads on the Mothership.

Not really. Only in "Bad Faith" when Jack didn't do more to prevent his friend's name from being dragged through the mud. Otherwise, they got along well enough.

The less said about Jack being dismissive and and a jerk at the end of Logan's last episode where it was reported he got booted to Staten Island, the better. And NO MENTION of the THE MOVIE THAT NEVER HAPPENED. Thankyeverramooch.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Not really. Only in "Bad Faith" when Jack didn't do more to prevent his friend's name from being dragged through the mud. Otherwise, they got along well enough.

The less said about Jack being dismissive and and a jerk at the end of Logan's last episode where it was reported he got booted to Staten Island, the better. And NO MENTION of the THE MOVIE THAT NEVER HAPPENED. Thankyeverramooch.

Maybe this is something better discussed on the Mothership forum, but I didn’t find Jack to be dismissive or a jerk at the end of Pride, he was just being a realist about the situation. But the final scene of Pride should’ve been of Logan, Briscoe and Van Buren where Logan was informed he was being demoted and sent to Staten Island. And yeah I won’t get into the movie because everyone was so OOC in that and McCoy was only on screen for about 15 seconds. 

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Maybe this is something better discussed on the Mothership forum, but I didn’t find Jack to be dismissive or a jerk at the end of Pride, he was just being a realist about the situation. But the final scene of Pride should’ve been of Logan, Briscoe and Van Buren where Logan was informed he was being demoted and sent to Staten Island. And yeah I won’t get into the movie because everyone was so OOC in that and McCoy was only on screen for about 15 seconds. 

And again, the whole movie debacle is that much more confounding because apparently Chris Noth had input in the writing. I mean...I wouldn't want my character crapped upon, but maybe he thought the drama would give him something meaty to play? *shrug*

As I said, at least Logan's last exit was on his terms. But I wish the case that Criminal Intent tackled was something from the Mothership, since Lennie played into this by way of the priest being a friend of his.

What there was was kind of a dud. (JMO here!)

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

And again, the whole movie debacle is that much more confounding because apparently Chris Noth had input in the writing.

Yeah; he either co-wrote it or there was that "story by" credit. IF it happened. Which it didn't!

16 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Maybe this is something better discussed on the Mothership forum, but I didn’t find Jack to be dismissive or a jerk at the end of Pride, he was just being a realist about the situation.

You know I'm biased when it comes to Noth/Logan. But Jack's line reading came off as "that's what he gets for what he did. Let's move on." Not that I expected him to rail against the injustice of it or anything. But some sympathy would have been nice. Then again, Wolf and Noth were at odds when he left, so there's that. But I expected better from the writers.

[WendyCR72]

Someone here mentioned Ron Carver replacing McCoy instead of Cutter. I liked Cutter, but that wasn't a bad idea. Barring that, it would also have been nice to see a scene or two between McCoy/Carver on CI as was done with Carver and Branch in "In The Wee Small Hours".

Or, hell, ANY explanation of where Carver went after Season 5.

[GHScorpiosRule]

22 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Someone here mentioned Ron Carver replacing McCoy instead of Cutter. I liked Cutter, but that wasn't a bad idea. Barring that, it would also have been nice to see a scene or two between McCoy/Carver on CI as was done with Carver and Branch in "In The Wee Small Hours".

Or, hell, ANY explanation of where Carver went after Season 5.

Assuming that Wolf or whoever was in charge of casting, could make a good offer for Courtney B. Vance to do it. Or did he not want to renew because he was moving to the West Coast? I don't recall if he and Angela Bassett were married during the years he was on this show or not.

ETA: Never mind. They got married in 1997. Maybe they moved out to California?

Edited August 14, 2020 by GHScorpiosRule

[Xeliou66]

55 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Someone here mentioned Ron Carver replacing McCoy instead of Cutter. I liked Cutter, but that wasn't a bad idea. Barring that, it would also have been nice to see a scene or two between McCoy/Carver on CI as was done with Carver and Branch in "In The Wee Small Hours".

Or, hell, ANY explanation of where Carver went after Season 5.

Carver never got enough of a role, he was a really good character who should’ve gotten more to do. I always thought Carver would’ve made for a good judge, and I like to think that that’s why he left his role as ADA for Major Case, to become a judge, I wish they could’ve brought him on as a judge on one of the L&O shows. Any explanation of where Carver went would’ve been nice though, it was a travesty that they didn’t explain his departure. 

I really wish McCoy had appeared on CI in any capacity - whether to assist Carver with a case in the earlier seasons or to discuss a big case with the squad during the later seasons when he was DA. I would’ve loved for any interaction between McCoy/Carver or McCoy and Goren/Eames or even Logan. It’s a real shame McCoy never made a crossover appearance on CI the way he did on SVU, all too often, especially in the later seasons, CI seemed out on its own apart from the franchise. 

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I really wish McCoy had appeared on CI in any capacity - whether to assist Carver with a case in the earlier seasons or to discuss a big case with the squad during the later seasons when he was DA. I would’ve loved for any interaction between McCoy/Carver or McCoy and Goren/Eames or even Logan. It’s a real shame McCoy never made a crossover appearance on CI the way he did on SVU, all too often, especially in the later seasons, CI seemed out on its own apart from the franchise. 

Especially since most of the nameless disposable ADAs of the latter seasons seemed like power-hungry criminals in their own right (the recurring ADA - in "Neighborhood Watch", "Last Rites", and "All In" in S8) that finally caused Logan to say fuck it and leave the force at the end of S7!) or were just painfully annoying. (See the redheaded ADA in "Silencer" that was pissed off because Goren, Eames, and what's his face wouldn't divulge a PRIVATE discussion between the accused and his ATTORNEY. You'd think, being a lawyer herself, she'd get why they would not spill.)

[Xeliou66]

56 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Especially since most of the nameless disposable ADAs of the latter seasons seemed like power-hungry criminals in their own right (the recurring ADA - in "Neighborhood Watch", "Last Rites", and "All In" in S8) that finally caused Logan to say fuck it and leave the force at the end of S7!) or were just painfully annoying. (See the redheaded ADA in "Silencer" that was pissed off because Goren, Eames, and what's his face wouldn't divulge a PRIVATE discussion between the accused and his ATTORNEY. You'd think, being a lawyer herself, she'd get why they would not spill.)

The ADA from Neighborhood Watch and Last Rites, Queens ADA Terri Driver, wasn’t the same as the ADA from All In, who’s name was Emma Niles (Niles also appeared in 2 season 9 episodes). Terri Driver was a corrupt bitch, I was frustrated that they weren’t able to put her in prison/hold her accountable for her corruption - but it’s worth noting she was a Queens ADA, she wasn’t working for McCoy. I don’t remember much about Emma Niles. 

Frankly the show was really hurt by them basically eliminating the legal stuff after Carver’s departure, it didn’t feel like an L&O show without any legal stuff, that along with other issues (the soapy personal melodrama, replacing Deakins with the awful Ross) really made the show weaker in the second half of its run compared to seasons 1-5. 

[WendyCR72]

19 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The ADA from Neighborhood Watch and Last Rites, Queens ADA Terri Driver, wasn’t the same as the ADA from All In, who’s name was Emma Niles

Huh! Thanks. They looked/sounded a lot alike to me. Just proves my overall point how forgettable/interchangeable the disposable ADAs were (even if Terri Driver was in Queens!).

Thinking budget indeed was a factor where the absence of the "Order" was concerned on Criminal Intent. Because while it was Warren Leight who started the phase out in Seasons 6 and 7, Walon Green was the EP for S9 and Chris Brancato for the final season, and they followed Leight's trajectory and never cast a new ADA. So the show was probably getting less money from USA (even if NBC was also showing the show weeks later and presumably chipping in, it probably was not a lot of funding, as they already owned USA!).

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Huh! Thanks. They looked/sounded a lot alike to me. Just proves my overall point how forgettable/interchangeable the disposable ADAs were (even if Terri Driver was in Queens!).

Thinking budget indeed was a factor where the absence of the "Order" was concerned on Criminal Intent. Because while it was Warren Leight who started the phase out in Seasons 6 and 7, Walon Green was the EP for S9 and Chris Brancato for the final season, and they followed Leight's trajectory and never cast a new ADA. So the show was probably getting less money from USA (even if NBC was also showing the show weeks later and presumably chipping in, it probably was not a lot of funding, as they already owned USA!).

Yeah I agree, but it sucked that they all but wrote out the legal stuff, it didn’t feel like L&O without the legal stuff. That’s a main reason why I think seasons 1-5 were far superior to the later seasons. 

Terri Driver was one of the most loathsome powerful people on the show, and I hated that she didn’t go down, especially since it was her corruption that drove Logan to quit as he was disgusted with the system. I know that frequently powerful corrupt people do get away with their despicable behavior, but I like to see them go down and on CI they almost always got the bad guys. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

This show was a different animal than the mothership. And even SVU in that there was hardly the Order side of things. We got only two trials that I can remember. Having Carver in scenes where they talk about plea deals wasn’t enough. Wolf should have done a better job or just not have this as part of the franchise.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:This show was a different animal than the mothership. And even SVU in that there was hardly the Order side of things. We got only two trials that I can remember. Having Carver in scenes where they talk about plea deals wasn’t enough. Wolf should have done a better job or just not have this as part of the franchise.

Yeah we only got 2 episodes with actual trial scenes - The Good Doctor and In The Wee Small Hours. While Carver occasionally got good material, there was just never enough legal stuff in CI. I really wished they had used Carver more and done more with the legal side of things. 

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah we only got 2 episodes with actual trial scenes - The Good Doctor and In The Wee Small Hours. While Carver occasionally got good material, there was just never enough legal stuff in CI. I really wished they had used Carver more and done more with the legal side of things. 

I did like Carver in "No Exit", too, answering questions from jurors when trying to shut down the suicide website. That was a different angle and I thought it was natural and served the plot and character well.

Still think there should have been an episode where, perhaps, something court related maybe led to Carver being a potential target and G/E having to work to find out who/why, etc.

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I did like Carver in "No Exit", too, answering questions from jurors when trying to shut down the suicide website. That was a different angle and I thought it was natural and served the plot and character well.

Still think there should have been an episode where, perhaps, something court related maybe led to Carver being a potential target and G/E having to work to find out who/why, etc.

Carver got good material in Best Defense as well, with Peter Bonham one of the prosecutors working under him apparently facing threats on his life (that of course it turned out he set up himself to frame his wife). Carver was even directly involved the plot in that he foiled the guy’s plan at the start of going to the apartment after he got the phone call saying his wife was found unconscious, with Carver pointing out that the guy on the phone called Bonham and not 911 and told Bonham to call his wife. That was a really good episode and I liked Carver’s role in it and how his actions directly affected the plot. 

[WendyCR72]

23 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Carver got good material in Best Defense as well, with Peter Bonham one of the prosecutors working under him apparently facing threats on his life (that of course it turned out he set up himself to frame his wife). Carver was even directly involved the plot in that he foiled the guy’s plan at the start of going to the apartment after he got the phone call saying his wife was found unconscious, with Carver pointing out that the guy on the phone called Bonham and not 911 and told Bonham to call his wife. That was a really good episode and I liked Carver’s role in it and how his actions directly affected the plot. 

Yeah, but in actuality (and being TV, I know Carver could not do this or he would not be seen!), Carver probably would have had to recuse himself given his relationship with the Bonhams. (Ironically, I recall the scene where Peter Bonham was asked to recuse and he got all pissy with the guy.)

Like I said, though, TV. Alex would not have been 100 yards near Joe's murder in "Amends", either. (Still, as was discussed, at least the show did address that, with Alex not being connected to Joe outwardly because she never took his last name, but still!)

[Xeliou66]

20 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, but in actuality (and being TV, I know Carver could not do this or he would not be seen!), Carver probably would have had to recuse himself given his relationship with the Bonhams. (Ironically, I recall the scene where Peter Bonham was asked to recuse and he got all pissy with the guy.

Like I said, though, TV. Alex would not have been 100 yards near Joe's murder in "Amends", either. (Still, as was discussed, at least the show did address that, with Alex not being connected to Joe outwardly because she never took his last name, but still!)

Yeah I’m not sure if Carver would’ve been able to be involved with the actual case - I guess it would be Arthur Branch’s call as he was DA at the time as to what to do (another time where a crossover cameo from the DA would’ve been nice, given that a prosecutor was involved in, and turned out to be the perp in, a case), but I liked how Carver was involved intricately in the plot by unknowingly foiling Bonham’s plan in the cold open and it was Carver who brought the situation to the attention of Major Case. 

It’s interesting as I was just having a discussion of “conflict of interest” scenarios over on the SVU forum, and yeah there have been some times where characters probably would’ve had to recuse themselves (especially in the case of Eames investigating her husband’s murder) but they frequently called out conflict of interest scenarios throughout the franchise and brought in outsiders to investigate things. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Xeliou66

[WendyCR72]

Browsing eBay and someone is selling photos of BTS shots from CI I thought this photo of Chris Noth and VDO was cool. Looked like they were having an amusing chat. Based on VDO's haircut, thinking this shot was from around Season 5.

[peacheslatour]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Browsing eBay and someone is selling photos of BTS shots from CI I thought this photo of Chris Noth and VDO was cool. Looked like they were having an amusing chat. Based on VDO's haircut, thinking this shot was from around Season 5.

Lol. Either VDO is sitting down or Chris Noth is standing on a box.

[Dirtybubble]

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Lol. Either VDO is sitting down or Chris Noth is standing on a box.

That's what I was wondering because VDO is like 6'4" (I think) and I don't think Noth is that tall....I was thinking maybe Chris was standing on the sidewalk or something =)

[peacheslatour]

14 minutes ago, Dirtybubble said:

That's what I was wondering because VDO is like 6'4" (I think) and I don't think Noth is that tall....I was thinking maybe Chris was standing on the sidewalk or something 😃

VDO is 6'4", Noth is 6'1".

[WendyCR72]

It occurred to me that the picture had to be from S5, likely from "In The Wee Small Hours", because Noth and D'Onofrio were in no other episodes together.

[peacheslatour]

25 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

It occurred to me that the picture had to be from S5, likely from "In The Wee Small Hours", because Noth and D'Onofrio were in no other episodes together.

They were in that episode where Logan was dating a prison doctor or nurse and there is rampant corruption in the prison.

[GHScorpiosRule]

38 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

It occurred to me that the picture had to be from S5, likely from "In The Wee Small Hours", because Noth and D'Onofrio were in no other episodes together.

While they didn't share any scenes, they were shown when Noth showed up in the premiere of Season Five.

12 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

They were in that episode where Logan was dating a prison doctor or nurse and there is rampant corruption in the prison.

That was from Season 4, when Noth guest starred.

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

They were in that episode where Logan was dating a prison doctor or nurse and there is rampant corruption in the prison.

True, but I'm still thinking S5. Don't ask me why.  🙂

[ML89]

18 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Either VDO is sitting down or Chris Noth is standing on a box.

Looks like he’s sitting. Got to be season 5 when Noth had that awful hair cut. I wish they’d done more mix n match because I would have loved Eames and Logan to have broken a case with good shoe leather detective work while Barek and Goren were using psychological means for another case. Or Falucci and Goren, which would have been crazy. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Or Falucci and Goren, which would have been crazy.

That would have been really interesting. Who did they partner Goren with while Eames was on maternity leave? Was is Wheeler?

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

That would have been really interesting. Who did they partner Goren with while Eames was on maternity leave? Was is Wheeler?

Nope. Bishop. Played by Samantha Buck.

[peacheslatour]

3 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Nope. Bishop. Played by Samantha Buck.

There was a moment when he made one of his weirdo remarks and she didn't react and he goes "Eames would have gotten it." Classic Goren.