Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[Xeliou66]

12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I liked when Rodgers started singing opera and Logan mentioning that he envied the dead then.  😛

That was a hilarious line. 

[wknt3]

On 3/1/2021 at 4:26 AM, WendyCR72 said:

I have no idea if it is an error (as the original Law & Order airs there and maybe it means that version!), but listings for this show on the Zap2It site have Criminal Intent airing on Sundance as of March 16th.

While this is obviously one of my favorites in the franchise, CI never seemed like a "Sundance" kind of show, if it makes sense? But I guess we'll soon find out if it is going to air there or is, as I said, an error in the listings...

If true it's another data point supporting my theory of Cable TV Entropy which states that over time every cable network tends towards an end state where it is a mix of police procedurals (and/or sitcoms) and reality shows no matter what the starting point. And it makes me imagine a scene of Goren interrogating a Sundance exec and watching them try to deny the network is trying to save money and desperately trying to increase ratings. "A cop show. High art there! Definitely can't get that sort of programming anywhere else..."

Edited March 4, 2021 by wknt3

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, wknt3 said:

If true it's another data point supporting my theory of Cable TV Entropy which states that over time every cable network tends towards an end state where it is a mix of police procedurals (and/or sitcoms) and reality shows no matter what the starting point. And it makes me imagine a scene of Goren interrogating a Sundance exec and watching them try to deny the network is trying to save money and desperately trying to increase ratings. "A cop show. High art there! Definitely can't get that sort of programming anywhere else..."

Yeah. Still, the show still must make enough bank if channels are still picking it up to air after a decade off the air in first run. Considering newer dramas are having a hard time getting into syndication at all, and I guess a little money on a tried and true than no money is the name of the TV game these days. And considering how far many such channels have strayed from their original premise [hi, MTV!], Sundance showing scripted shows at all versus 24/7 reality trash as sister channel WE does could still be seen as a win these days. 

[Xeliou66]

I watched the Loyalty 2 parter today and I still barely understand what went on or what the ultimate motivation for the murders was - I get that it was all part of a political power play and Ross was killed because he was working undercover for the FBI but what specifically was the motivation for all of the murders? It was so convoluted that it’s damn near impossible to figure it all out. 

And like I’ve said before, Ross was a dick and I felt nothing when he got killed, and I didn’t like how they were all referring to Ross as their friend and all, he was a dick to them and him dying didn’t make him a saint. 

I did like seeing Nichols work with Goren/Eames, and I sided with Nichols at the end in that I didn’t think Hassan, the guy who was behind all of the murders, should walk so they could find terrorist cells, and I had a hard time believing that the higher ups would go along with that, the murder of a police captain is a huge deal and they would want someone held accountable. I hope Hassan got what was coming to him at some point, as Nichols threatened that he would. 

Anyway the episode was a convoluted mess and I’m really glad Goren/Eames came back for season 10 so they could get a good sendoff because their send off here sucked. 

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Anyway the episode was a convoluted mess and I’m really glad Goren/Eames came back for season 10 so they could get a good sendoff because their send off here sucked. 

That was the exact reason, if I recall, both VDO/KE gave in returning for a Season 10. I guess they wanted to reward the devoted fans. If I recall, the bulk of those fans [me, included!] were not at all happy with the way Goren and Eames' first exit went.

(Not naive to think that was the only reason. Money talks. But I do recall it was a reason given, just the same.)

[Xeliou66]

38 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

That was the exact reason, if I recall, both VDO/KE gave in returning for a Season 10. I guess they wanted to reward the devoted fans. If I recall, the bulk of those fans [me, included!] were not at all happy with the way Goren and Eames' first exit went.

(Not naive to think that was the only reason. Money talks. But I do recall it was a reason given, just the same.)

Their original exit, in Loyalty, sucked badly. Extremely unsatisfying, and the plot of the episode was a disaster. Only thing satisfying about Loyalty was Ross biting the dust LOL. But yeah Goren getting fired and Eames apparently quitting was not a good exit at all, so glad they decided to do a season 10 and give Goren/Eames a good sendoff, season 10 really felt like a return to CI’s best years (1-5) in many ways. 

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Their original exit, in Loyalty, sucked badly. Extremely unsatisfying, and the plot of the episode was a disaster. Only thing satisfying about Loyalty was Ross biting the dust LOL. But yeah Goren getting fired and Eames apparently quitting was not a good exit at all, so glad they decided to do a season 10 and give Goren/Eames a good sendoff, season 10 really felt like a return to CI’s best years (1-5) in many ways. 

I just wish we could have seen the original ending in some form, even as just bonus DVD material. I do know Rene Balcer (EP from S1-5) made a cameo.

On another note, I have the original pilot script from "One" coming (written in January 2001 by Dick Wolf himself) coming from eBay. Just based on the sample pages I saw, there were some differences. It will be interesting to see just how much the pilot evolved into its final form.

(One example is the final lines. Per the original script, Goren and Eames were back at 1PP, not where they arrested Atwood, as a bunch of cops were huddled around G/E's desks, oohing and aaahing over the diamond stash. Then comes the lines that did make it to air, sort of. Another cop named DeMaio in the script, not Eames, made the remark of with the diamonds, why Gia didn't run...

Goren says it wasn't about the diamonds, but Atwood.

Then Eames says to Goren, "Men come and go, but diamonds are forever." (Instead of Goren interrupting and saying diamonds don't keep you warm at night...)

Goren responds to that, "So is a bullet."

The ending based on the sample pages then has Goren asking Eames to handle the diamonds with the insurance folks, as he wants to call Mr. and Mrs. Kerstin. The scene says we see him dialing the phone, then beginning to talk, and then fade out.)

I'm intrigued to see any other differences.

[WendyCR72]

I know we talked about secondary characters before, but I still like and appreciate how Season 10 (airing on WE as I type!) also brought back one of them. The blonde female cop filling Goren and Eames in on the crime in "Trophy Wine" was the same cop in the episodes "Siren Call" and "Privilege" in Season 6 and "Vanishing Act" in S7.

She seemed to have a dry wit, kind of like Eames herself.

Don't think she ever had a name mentioned, though.

[WendyCR72]

As there is nothing else on, I switched on CI on Sundance. Maybe it's just me or my television, but the picture on that channel seems a lot sharper than it is on WE. Looks good.

[Xeliou66]

I just watched Poison on Sundance, it’s a great episode, as I’ve said before though, I would’ve liked to have seen more on how Goren convinced Carver to go along with his scheme to charge Trudy’s mom with the murders, because if their plan didn’t work they would be left with a disastrous situation as Trudy’s lawyer could argue the mom was guilty and have reasonable doubt even though they all knew Trudy did it. I was surprised Carver apparently quickly agreed to go along with Goren’s plan, because they couldn’t be sure it would work. And I would like to know what Carver told Nora Lewin about the case, we all know with 7 cyanide murders Nora would be keeping a close eye on the case, and how would he convince her to agree to the plan to charge the mom despite Trudy being the one who did it? It seems like Nora might’ve had some ethical issues with it and would also be concerned about it not working. So I’ve always wondered about how all that went down, because I feel like Goren, Carver etc took a big risk with their plan. 

Still a terrific episode, and I especially love the Briscoe/Green scene, 4 of the best L&O detectives in one scene, I loved Briscoe calling the commissioners office “those idiots” and then Goren suggesting they leak it to the media, and then when the story leaks they kept their mouths shut about who did it. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Still a terrific episode, and I especially love the Briscoe/Green scene, 4 of the best L&O detectives in one scene, I loved Briscoe calling the commissioners office “those idiots” and then Goren suggesting they leak it to the media, and then when the story leaks they kept their mouths shut about who did it. 

Also liked Deakins asking, "Who opened their big yaps?!" as Goren and Eames say nothing and just sort of try and play coy.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Also liked Deakins asking, "Who opened their big yaps?!" as Goren and Eames say nothing and just sort of try and play coy.

Yeah I love that scene, I was glad Goren and Eames stayed quiet about it, I thought Goren was right to suggest Briscoe and Green leak the story to the media, the public deserved to know about what was going on, it was one time I strongly disagreed with Deakins.

I loved seeing Briscoe and Green crossover, as I’ve said before I wish they had done more crossovers. Poison is a great episode but I would’ve liked more insight on how Carver agreed to Goren’s plan to trap Trudy. 

[peacheslatour]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I love that scene, I was glad Goren and Eames stayed quiet about it, I thought Goren was right to suggest Briscoe and Green leak the story to the media, the public deserved to know about what was going on, it was one time I strongly disagreed with Deakins.

I loved seeing Briscoe and Green crossover, as I’ve said before I wish they had done more crossovers. Poison is a great episode but I would’ve liked more insight on how Carver agreed to Goren’s plan to trap Trudy. 

And all of that death and mayhem just so she could sell baby clothes. What a fucking sicko.

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

And all of that death and mayhem just so she could sell baby clothes. What a fucking sicko.

Extreme narcissist, that was Trudy Pomeranski. Which is why, when J. Smith Cameron appeared again in Season 6 as one of Mark Ford Brady's living victims, it was hard for me to forget how loathsome a character she played in Season 1. LOL! (I ultimately did feel for her second character as she detailed what Ford did to her, but the memory of Trudy always lingered!)

[peacheslatour]

6 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Extreme narcissist, that was Trudy Pomeranski. Which is why, when J. Smith Cameron appeared again in Season 6 as one of Mark Ford Brady's living victims, it was hard for me to forget how loathsome a character she played in Season 1. LOL! (I ultimately did feel for her second character as she detailed what Ford did to her, but the memory of Trudy always lingered!)

Same. 

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

And all of that death and mayhem just so she could sell baby clothes. What a fucking sicko.

Absolutely - Trudy was a real sicko who was living in loony land. She cared about nothing aside from getting her store open. And something was off about her mom as well - the way she wouldn’t say anything at her arraignment and just the whole way she acted. 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Absolutely - Trudy was a real sicko who was living in loony land. She cared about nothing aside from getting her store open. And something was off about her mom as well - the way she wouldn’t say anything at her arraignment and just the whole way she acted. 

The mom was probably in denial about her psycho daughter. As for her conduct in the courtroom, probably the silence was a form of protesting her being accused or something.

I did like Goren's hacker buddy in that episode, too.

[WendyCR72]

Funny how I never noticed until now (as I watch "Diamond Dogs" on MyNetwork) that the heavyset perp with curly hair that Logan drags out of the bar is - I think - the same actor that played the store clerk two seasons later in "Betrayed", when Goren/Eames asked him about Woody Sage

[Xeliou66]

On 3/17/2021 at 7:08 PM, WendyCR72 said:

The mom was probably in denial about her psycho daughter. As for her conduct in the courtroom, probably the silence was a form of protesting her being accused or something.

I did like Goren's hacker buddy in that episode, too.

I don’t know - the mom seemed to know her daughter was a killer, based on their interaction at the store, but something just wasn’t quite right with her it seemed. 

So much to like about that episode, particularly the Briscoe/Green crossover, I loved that. Like I say my only complaint is how they glossed over the huge risk they took in charging the mom. 

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, Xeliou66 said:

I don’t know - the mom seemed to know her daughter was a killer, based on their interaction at the store, but something just wasn’t quite right with her it seemed. 

So much to like about that episode, particularly the Briscoe/Green crossover, I loved that. Like I say my only complaint is how they glossed over the huge risk they took in charging the mom. 

I do hope, though, on another note, that that nurse was charged for something. She may not have been the cyanide killer, but she admitted to giving a drug to patients to stop their hearts for 30 or so seconds so she could "save" them and look good!

This episode was full of psychotic women, it seems.

[Xeliou66]

28 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I do hope, though, on another note, that that nurse was charged for something. She may not have been the cyanide killer, but she admitted to giving a drug to patients to stop their hearts for 30 or so seconds so she could "save" them and look good!

This episode was full of psychotic women, it seems.

I’m sure they charged the nurse with attempted murder/assault. Yeah there were some disturbed women in that episode. One of the best episodes of season 1. I’ve said it before, but CI didn’t have many growing pains in its first season, they had their solid formula down from the start. Most season 1 episodes are excellent. Poison would definitely make my top 5 episodes of season 1.

[peacheslatour]

I'm so irritated with WE. Whenever they start CI over with season 1 it seems that they skip season 2 and go right to season 3. WTF?

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm so irritated with WE. Whenever they start CI over with season 1 it seems that they skip season 2 and go right to season 3. WTF?

WE is showing season 2 episodes late tonight, at least where I’m at. I don’t know if there programming is different where you are, but WE will be showing Cold Comfort, Legion and Cherry Red starting at 1 AM tonight.

[peacheslatour]

9 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

WE is showing season 2 episodes late tonight, at least where I’m at. I don’t know if there programming is different where you are, but WE will be showing Cold Comfort, Legion and Cherry Red starting at 1 AM tonight.

Great. I go to bed at 10:00. 😴

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

WE is showing season 2 episodes late tonight, at least where I’m at. I don’t know if there programming is different where you are, but WE will be showing Cold Comfort, Legion and Cherry Red starting at 1 AM tonight.

Not to mention, it seems CI is now on daily from the mornings 'til early afternoons now, since WE has dropped CSI: Miami, so the seasons go at a fast clip.

Still, the show should be in Season 2 on Sundance this Tuesday or next, since it has around 12-hour marathons on Tuesdays now, too.

9 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Great. I go to bed at 10:00. 😴

Always the DVR!

[WendyCR72]

Kenny Strickland - the perp in "Maledictus" - the cross-dressing Mommy killer, had to be one of the creepiest, skin-crawliest perps the show had. At least in the early years. (Ending now on Sundance.)

Was always kind of surprised the mother's poisoning was never discovered via autopsy back then. (Unless she did not have one, forgot if that was possible.)

And now...Viola Davis as ice-cold Terry Randolph in "Badge". Ken Strickland was weird. Terry was just COLD.

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Kenny Strickland - the perp in "Maledictus" - the cross-dressing Mommy killer, had to be one of the creepiest, skin-crawliest perps the show had. At least in the early years. (Ending now on Sundance.)

Was always kind of surprised the mother's poisoning was never discovered via autopsy back then. (Unless she did not have one, forgot if that was possible.)

And now...Viola Davis as ice-cold Terry Randolph in "Badge". Ken Strickland was weird. Terry was just COLD.

Yeah the perp in Maledictus was creepy, his relationship with his sister seemed like it bordered on incest.

And I watched Badge as well, I love this episode, Terry Randolph was a chilling, evil villain, one of the most memorable in CI’s history. I really liked her Goren was able to get under her skin and trick her into incriminating herself. Goren’s interactions with Randolph were vintage Goren. I also liked his interaction with Phil, the one who had been forced to resign and who later shot himself when being booked, I liked Goren examining his grocery bag and Goren’s questioning of the guy at the boat place was good as well.

I wonder just how many cops were involved in Randolph’s corruption schemes and helped her kill the Sherwood family, I would’ve liked some clarification on that. 

A small thing I liked in that episode is how, after the guy shot himself, Deakins was very good with the officer whose gun got grabbed and calmly told him to wait in the squad room instead of chewing him out. Deakins was a good boss. 

As I’ve said before, the one thing I don’t like about Badge is how Van Buren was OOC, while it was nice to see her make an appearance, it didn’t make her look very good, she had a major blind spot when it came to Randolph, and it seemed like she was okay with Randolph roughing up suspects, which is something Van Buren never tolerated. While she did help them nail Randolph at the end, she just didn’t look good and came across as OOC. That is my only complaint about the episode. 

[WendyCR72]

"Anti-Thesis" is on now. And I stand by my belief that this could have been a one and done with Nicole Wallace, and the show would have been better for it.

 (And at some point, wasn't Nicole Wallace basically an alias, too?)

I did still love Goren and Eames as the yuppie couple in the shoe store, though!

The next and last episode of the Sundance marathon is "Best Defense", a.k.a. Peter Bonham, loser attorney, who feels threatened by his more successful lawyer wife, trying to frame her for trying to have him killed.

Hope Linda and Sarah Bonham went on to have a fabulous life without that piece of dirt! (Yes, I know it's not real. LOL! But still...)

[Spartan Girl]

14 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Hope Linda and Sarah Bonham went on to have a fabulous life without that piece of dirt! (Yes, I know it's not real. LOL! But still...)

On a related note, I hope that the mom in “Happy Family” who emotionally terrorized her adopted kids into thinking their dad would send them back to the orphanage leading to his murder would die a slow, painful death of cancer and burn in seven hells.

[peacheslatour]

45 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

On a related note, I hope that the mom in “Happy Family” who emotionally terrorized her adopted kids into thinking their dad would send them back to the orphanage leading to his murder would die a slow, painful death of cancer and burn in seven hells.

After my passionate hatred of Nicole Wallace, I'm saving the rest of it for the dad in Magnificat.

[Xeliou66]

14 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

"Anti-Thesis" is on now. And I stand by my belief that this could have been a one and done with Nicole Wallace, and the show would have been better for it.

 (And at some point, wasn't Nicole Wallace basically an alias, too?)

I did still love Goren and Eames as the yuppie couple in the shoe store, though!

The next and last episode of the Sundance marathon is "Best Defense", a.k.a. Peter Bonham, loser attorney, who feels threatened by his more successful lawyer wife, trying to frame her for trying to have him killed.

Hope Linda and Sarah Bonham went on to have a fabulous life without that piece of dirt! (Yes, I know it's not real. LOL! But still...)

Best Defense is a great episode, really good plot, and I like how at the start Carver inadvertently spoiled part of Bonham’s plot, that was unique having one of the main characters being involved in the villain’s plot like that. Peter Bonham was quite pathetic, going to all that length to frame his wife just because he felt sorry for himself. 

34 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

On a related note, I hope that the mom in “Happy Family” who emotionally terrorized her adopted kids into thinking their dad would send them back to the orphanage leading to his murder would die a slow, painful death of cancer and burn in seven hells.

I think the 2 adopted kids in Happy Family may be the most sympathetic perps in CI’s history, they were terrified of being sent back to that orphanage and they thought the dad would send them there because of the mom and her lies. She was an evil bitch for doing that to those kids and her actions resulted in murder. 

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I think the 2 adopted kids in Happy Family may be the most sympathetic perps in CI’s history, they were terrified of being sent back to that orphanage and they thought the dad would send them there because of the mom and her lies. She was an evil bitch for doing that to those kids and her actions resulted in murder. 

The cancer angle makes me wonder if we were supposed to feel sympathy for Paula Connors.

If so, it failed. Miserably.

And since we are throwing shade, I hope Lucas Coulter was left alone and miserable and that his wife, Susan, took Maggie and Sarah far away from his ass, since it was his embezzling and borrowing from scumbags that led to his family getting kidnapped and Maggie raped.

Then he tries to play "concerned dad", telling his wife he didn't want Maggie to talk to G/E, because she would have to face her rapist, etc. Well...again...if not for HIM, there'd have been no rapist TO face.

[Xeliou66]

5 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

The cancer angle makes me wonder if we were supposed to feel sympathy for Paula Connors.

If so, it failed. Miserably.

I don’t think we were supposed to feel sympathy for the bitch. She was responsible for the murder, she brainwashed the kids to hate the father.

CI didn’t often have sympathetic perps, after all in the opening it says the show is about the “worst criminal offenders”, but the 2 kids in Happy Family are arguably the most sympathetic in CI history. I completely understand why they did what they did, and it’s a rare case of the victim being sympathetic as well, it was the bitch ex wife who was the ultimate villain.

[Sigmagirl]

It’s hard to say what is a Sundance kind of a show, what with the Hogan’s Heroes marathons…

 

So, in "The Saint," Stephen Colbert kills a lady with a exploding poison candy and his mother’s mental illness causes her to give away every penny they have. So when he goes to prison for murder, does she get the money back? I hope so. She’s going to be living on the street without it, and she needs help. 

[peacheslatour]

21 minutes ago, Sigmagirl said:

It’s hard to say what is a Sundance kind of a show, what with the Hogan’s Heroes marathons…

 

So, in "The Saint," Stephen Colbert kills a lady with a exploding poison candy and his mother’s mental illness causes her to give away every penny they have. So when he goes to prison for murder, does she get the money back? I hope so. She’s going to be living on the street without it, and she needs help. 

I don't care. I hated her.

[basiltherat]

But Lois Smith plays crazy ladies SO well!

[WendyCR72]

This case (from "The Saint") was inspired by forger and murderer, Mark Hoffman, who dealt with falsified Mormon documents. Netflix has a documentary about this called "Murder Among The Mormons", which is streaming now.

[peacheslatour]

I just finished up watching Want. I think Goren was sympathetic to the perp (NPH, lol) because he empathized with his profound loneliness and need, yet inability to get close to anyone.

Edited March 27, 2021 by peacheslatour

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

I just finished up watching Want. I think Goren was sympathetic to the perp (NPR, lol) because he empathized with his profound loneliness and need, yet inability to get close to anyone.

Yeah, that was pretty much my thought. But I still despised Goren sympathizing with such a freaking psycho. I was actually glad the way it ended. Tagman deserved everything he got.

[peacheslatour]

42 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, that was pretty much my thought. But I still despised Goren sympathizing with such a freaking psycho. I was actually glad the way it ended. Tagman deserved everything he got.

I don't know. He was extremely remorseful, if anyone needed to be beaten to death in prison I can think of more deserving characters. Like Nicole Wallace or Paul Whitlock from Magnificat. Or Terry Randolph.

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I just finished up watching Want. I think Goren was sympathetic to the perp (NPR, lol) because he empathized with his profound loneliness and need, yet inability to get close to anyone.

 

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, that was pretty much my thought. But I still despised Goren sympathizing with such a freaking psycho. I was actually glad the way it ended. Tagman deserved everything he got.

Yes I agree Goren could relate because of his loneliness and all, but still, Tagman was one of the sickest perps the show ever had, he was a cannibal for god’s sake, and I didn’t like seeing Goren be so sympathetic to him and strongly going to bat for him. This was 2 episodes after Goren seemed sympathetic to another psycho perp in Semi-Detached. I’m not sure what was going on at the start of Season 4 but I didn’t like it at all. 

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I don't know. He was extremely remorseful, if anyone needed to be beaten to death in prison I can think of more deserving characters. Like Nicole Wallace or Paul Whitlock from Magnificat. Or Terry Randolph.

Eh, let them all suffer.  😛 I just cannot muster any sympathy for someone who would perform a homemade lobotomy on a woman by pouring hot water on her brain.

[peacheslatour]

11 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Eh, let them all suffer.  😛 I just cannot muster any sympathy for someone who would perform a homemade lobotomy on a woman by pouring hot water on her brain.

But I will never forget from Blind Spot, where Bobby realizes it could have gone either way for him, really hit him hard. I think he was overly influenced by Declan to believe his own pathology was ambiguous.

[Xeliou66]

16 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Eh, let them all suffer.  😛 I just cannot muster any sympathy for someone who would perform a homemade lobotomy on a woman by pouring hot water on her brain.

Agreed - Tagman’s crimes were so gruesome and bone chilling that I had no sympathy for him. I really didn’t like whatever they were doing with Goren at the start of season 4, glad it didn’t continue.

A lot of the perps on CI were extremely despicable, after all it was a show about “the worst criminal offenders”. 

[WendyCR72]

On 3/26/2021 at 9:20 PM, peacheslatour said:

But I will never forget from Blind Spot, where Bobby realizes it could have gone either way for him, really hit him hard. I think he was overly influenced by Declan to believe his own pathology was ambiguous.

Yeah, but based on Bobby's long look at Declan after Jo was taken away, I think Bobby realized that his mentor was a lot less admirable than he first thought. Based on the fact that Bobby did not even know about Declan's failing health a season later, it seems like he did his level best to put some distance back between them.

Of course, much of that probably had to do with Jo going after Alex. And realizing that Jo did it to get Declan's attention because he was shit as a father, thus causing the whole damned thing. (I still remember Bobby closing his eyes, struggling not to show his horror as Jo detailed wanting to kill Eames.) She is one of the few people Bobby also feels close to and the whole thing, as we saw, really affected him psychologically, too.

So it was probably also about doing it for his own sake as much as Eames.

[WendyCR72]

I have the show on now on Sundance and, damn, Julie in "Suite Sorrow" with her scuzzy daddy, Hal Linden, is so damned shrill and unlikable. The scene with Eames in the waiting room next to the older woman quizzing Alex about her skin is still worth a laugh, though.

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I have the show on now on Sundance and, damn, Julie in "Suite Sorrow" with her scuzzy daddy, Hal Linden, is so damned shrill and unlikable. The scene with Eames in the waiting room next to the older woman quizzing Alex about her skin is still worth a laugh, though.

I like Suite Sorrow, that was one of the most twisted episodes in the franchise, with the dad working with his lover to try to gain control of the hotel and having the lover become the daughters fiancé, that was one of the most shocking twists on CI when they revealed the dad was the lover of the daughters fiancé. Like I say, twisted episode. 

I liked the crossover appearance of the defense attorney Peter Behrens, he appeared in several Mothership episodes.

I also liked ME Rodgers line about Botox leaving a good looking corpse. 

 

[WendyCR72]

I'd forgotten actor Mark Blum played the professor ex of Malcolm McDowell's character's wife in "Proud Flesh", on WE now. He succumbed to COVID last year. He also played the rival to the character of Mick Dundee for the affections of love interest Sue Charlton [Linda Koslowski] in Crocodile Dundee.

[WendyCR72]

We discussed pages back about a French adaption of this show. Well, per this page, apparently there was also a Russian adaption! (Though I know zip about that one!)

[WendyCR72]

"Ten Count" is airing on WE as I type. Miguel Ferrer really was a pretty great actor (who got overshadowed by cousin George Clooney- even as I read they were quite close, and I know both Ferrer and his mother, Rosemary Clooney, also guest starred on ER with George!). He played so sincere yet also a cold, ruthless dirtbag underneath so well.

Always sort of sadly ironic to me that, in the ER pilot, when Ferrer had his guest role, his character was told he was dying of cancer. It's exactly how he died in 2017.