Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[Xeliou66]

I saw But Not Forgotten today, that’s an outstanding episode, a complex but very good plot, gripping from start to finish, with some very good twists. I did wonder what happened to Frieda’s body, Earl never confessed to Frieda’s murder even though we know he did it, I wonder if he was charged with their being no body, they had Earl for Bennie’s murder but I wonder if he was charged with Frieda’s as well or if her body was ever found. I loved the twist of Isobel knowing all along Dan was a hitman and setting Earl up when she found out he killed Dan. The whole plot was excellent and it’s one of season 3’s best episodes, I also liked the heavier role Deakins and Carver got in it, they were CI’s unsung heroes. 

[WendyCR72]

On 12/19/2019 at 2:44 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I saw But Not Forgotten today, that’s an outstanding episode, a complex but very good plot, gripping from start to finish, with some very good twists. I did wonder what happened to Frieda’s body, Earl never confessed to Frieda’s murder even though we know he did it, I wonder if he was charged with their being no body, they had Earl for Bennie’s murder but I wonder if he was charged with Frieda’s as well or if her body was ever found. I loved the twist of Isobel knowing all along Dan was a hitman and setting Earl up when she found out he killed Dan. The whole plot was excellent and it’s one of season 3’s best episodes, I also liked the heavier role Deakins and Carver got in it, they were CI’s unsung heroes. 

Alicia Coppola has always been a compelling actress, so she was a good pick for Isobel. Stone cold she was, though! In any case, the actor playing Earl also played the guy that beat up Felix Perez in "The Extra Man" in S1, although he thought he was beating up Dennis DuPont.

I do agree "But Not Forgotten" was a good episode. I can easily see Earl charged with Frieda's murder as there have been such cases without a body in real life.

[WendyCR72]

Oh, good. WE is showing "Prisoner" right now. Can't wait to see Bobby's dumb little dance again.  😛

[WendyCR72]

And the last of WE's mini S5 marathon for the night has "Unchained" on. David Keith, who played the dirty cop, apparently played Elvis in some movie, "Heartbreak Hotel". I never saw it, and can't picture him as Elvis, but hey, many have played him, so...

He does have the sort-of southern drawl down, though, even as scummy as his character was in this episode.

[WendyCR72]

I just noticed something, and you'd think I would have caught it long before now...but "Slither", the non-Nicole-appearing "Nicole" episode just started on WE, and the beginning of that episode was strangely almost identical to the beginning of "Bedfellows" a season later in S6. Cops find a husband and wife in bed together with the male dead and the wife freaking out when the cops approach them.

Of course Russ in "Slither" was injected with heroin and died and Adlai had his protein shake poisoned by his sister-in-law, but the rest was pretty similar in their respective openings. Weird, especially being only a season apart.

[Xeliou66]

17 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I just noticed something, and you'd think I would have caught it long before now...but "Slither", the non-Nicole-appearing "Nicole" episode just started on WE, and the beginning of that episode was strangely almost identical to the beginning of "Bedfellows" a season later in S6. Cops find a husband and wife in bed together with the male dead and the wife freaking out when the cops approach them.

Of course Russ in "Slither" was injected with heroin and died and Adlai had his protein shake poisoned by his sister-in-law, but the rest was pretty similar in their respective openings. Weird, especially being only a season apart.

Interesting, I’ve never thought about that connection but they are similar. 

Slither had the potential to be such a good episode with that chilling and gripping cold open but then they ruined it with the stupid Nicole bullshit. And the ending still makes me laugh with how they just stand there on the steps instead of telling people to shut down the building and pursuing the killer, who was likely Nicole. Epically stupid ending. 

[WendyCR72]

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Interesting, I’ve never thought about that connection but they are similar. 

Slither had the potential to be such a good episode with that chilling and gripping cold open but then they ruined it with the stupid Nicole bullshit. And the ending still makes me laugh with how they just stand there on the steps instead of telling people to shut down the building and pursuing the killer, who was likely Nicole. Epically stupid ending. 

And even more, while some poisons may work fast, would one work instantly?! I doubt it. It's like he got jabbed, the scream, and BAM! Dead.

[WendyCR72]

Looks like - besides the morning blocks during the week - ION will now be showing the show late night/early morning, starting at 1:00 a.m. and 2:00 a.m. tomorrow for the insomniac crowd, like Oxygen and WE do.

[Xeliou66]

19 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

And even more, while some poisons may work fast, would one work instantly?! I doubt it. It's like he got jabbed, the scream, and BAM! Dead.

Yeah that whole ending was stupid. Like I say, that episode had a lot of potential with its creepy opening and it could’ve been really good but then they had to throw in the Nicole shit. Such a waste.

[WendyCR72]

"Badge" is on ION now, and it still makes me queasy when Bobby puts on the bloody shirt from the dead hubby! I mean, I get why, to discover the splatter discrepancy. But still...eeewww!

[WendyCR72]

"Vanishing Act" just started on WE. As I said before, I really like this episode. VDO just looked happy for once and like he was having a blast. And the case was interesting, too.

[WendyCR72]

Just saw a commercial for CI on ION (ironically during a commercial break from CI just now). The weird thing is, it looks like a fairly-recent commercial with VDO/Bobby in the usual suit/badge talking about how he gets in the head of monsters and how he has tried to save others - and himself.

I would think it was from a few years back, but that had the weird-assed orange background before and I never recalled seeing this one. So I really don't know, as this had more of a gray/black background... It had clips from the show interspersed in between VDO/Bobby talking.

[Sigmagirl]

I just saw that promo again just this second. I think it’s pretty recent. 

Have you seen the promos for L&O and Criminal Minds where they dub goofball lines over scenes from the shows? Usually the characters are trash-talking each other about whose seasons and episodes are the best and who has more lines. I’d love for them to do that with CI and Goren and Logan.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Sigmagirl

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Sigmagirl said:

Have you seen the promos for L&O and Criminal Minds where they dub goofball lines over scenes from the shows

On WE, right? Yeah, I've seen those. And I agree that Goren, Logan, Eames, and Wheeler (or Barek or Falacci) should get such a promo, too.  🙂 It'd be fun!

[peacheslatour]

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

On WE, right? Yeah, I've seen those. And I agree that Goren, Logan, Eames, and Wheeler (or Barek or Falacci) should get such a promo, too.  🙂 It'd be fun!

It wouldn't work for Nichols. He already says silly, goofball stuff without the need to dub it.

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

It wouldn't work for Nichols. He already says silly, goofball stuff without the need to dub it.

Yeah. Hence why I never included him in the list. LOL! Forgot his partner in S9, too, but Serena Stevens was so dull, can you blame me?

[WendyCR72]

The Logan/Olivet scene in "To The Bone" is on ION as I type. I really did like that. For the history franchise wise - and how it was so easily captured in such a short scene - and because it was one of the very few times this spinoff seemed connected to the rest of that universe.

Chris Noth and Carolyn McCormick did have good chemistry together, no matter what that unnamed dynamic was.

[WendyCR72]

WE finished up S2 and began S3 during today's marathon. The actor playing bigamist architect in "Undaunted Mettle", Ben Laurette, I wonder if the actor also played the photographer that was murdered a season later in "The Posthumous Collection"? Hmm.

I have no idea what his name is, so just call this post a bit of spitballing...

[WendyCR72]

"Silencer" from S6 just wrapped up on ION, and we discussed Det. Peter Lyons before. But one look I still can never decipher is at the very end of the episode after the uniformed officers lead a handcuffed Tommy out and Goren goes and sits next to Lyons at the end.

Lyons sort of has his head turned and his arms crossed and looks almost pissed at something. And I cannot for the life of me figure out just what the hell has him looking so petulant!

[Xeliou66]

18 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

WE finished up S2 and began S3 during today's marathon. The actor playing bigamist architect in "Undaunted Mettle", Ben Laurette, I wonder if the actor also played the photographer that was murdered a season later in "The Posthumous Collection"? Hmm.

I have no idea what his name is, so just call this post a bit of spitballing...

No they were played by different actors, they looked similar though. 

[peacheslatour]

20 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

WE finished up S2 and began S3 during today's marathon. The actor playing bigamist architect in "Undaunted Mettle", Ben Laurette, I wonder if the actor also played the photographer that was murdered a season later in "The Posthumous Collection"? Hmm.

I have no idea what his name is, so just call this post a bit of spitballing...

No but he was in four different Mothership eps and in an SVU ep called Russian Love Poem. I can see why he seems familiar.

[WendyCR72]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

No they were played by different actors, they looked similar though. 

Yep, they did. Which is why I asked.  🙂

12 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

No but he was in four different Mothership eps and in an SVU ep called Russian Love Poem. I can see why he seems familiar.

That would definitely explain why he looked familiar, I agree! And thanks.  😉

[WendyCR72]

Dick Wolf's entire catalog, including both Law & Order (including spinoffs SVU and Criminal Intent) and Chicago franchises, will be streaming on NBC's upcoming service, Peacock .

[peacheslatour]

17 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Dick Wolf's entire catalog, including both Law & Order (including spinoffs SVU and Criminal Intent) and Chicago franchises, will be streaming on NBC's upcoming service, Peacock .

Is it free?

[WendyCR72]

24 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Is it free?

I looked it up, and no. It will be $6.99 per month or $69.99 per year. I believe it debuts in April.

ETA: Wikipedia says differently - at least for one tier. Free AND paid. And the paid price is different than what Google itself said.

[WendyCR72]

Oxygen had its CI block early this morning as usual. It's in S7 and one of the three episodes was "Depths" which I always liked, even if Kelli Giddish's Dana annoys me.

That being said, and I'm not sure I ever mentioned it, I always did like the scene with Goren, Eames, and Walter. We had never seen Walter before, but it was obvious Goren and Eames knew the guy. Wonder if he was supposed to be a former perp they busted or an informant? But I really like - in just minutes - how the whole scene sort of showed that never-shown history.

Surprised Walter just let Goren take that gold coin without a fight, though!

[peacheslatour]

19 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Oxygen had its CI block early this morning as usual. It's in S7 and one of the three episodes was "Depths" which I always liked, even if Kelli Giddish's Dana annoys me.

That being said, and I'm not sure I ever mentioned it, I always did like the scene with Goren, Eames, and Walter. We had never seen Walter before, but it was obvious Goren and Eames knew the guy. Wonder if he was supposed to be a former perp they busted or an informant? But I really like - in just minutes - how the whole scene sort of showed that never-shown history.

Surprised Walter just let Goren take that gold coin without a fight, though!

Are you sure you don't mean ION? Here all that's on Oxygen in the morning is Snapped.

[Broderbits]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Are you sure you don't mean ION? Here all that's on Oxygen in the morning is Snapped.

I believe it's only on Oxygen Tuesdays from 3am to 6am.

[peacheslatour]

12 minutes ago, Broderbits said:

I believe it's only on Oxygen Tuesdays from 3am to 6am.

Ah, thanks.

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, Broderbits said:

I believe it's only on Oxygen Tuesdays from 3am to 6am.

Yep, what @Broderbits said! I sometimes actually catch it around 3 as I work weird hours. If I don't, there's DVR. 🙂

[peacheslatour]

I'm watching To The Bone right now. I got a kick out of the ME slapping Bobby's hand when he was reaching for something on the corpse.

[WendyCR72]

On 2/16/2020 at 1:09 PM, peacheslatour said:

I'm watching To The Bone right now. I got a kick out of the ME slapping Bobby's hand when he was reaching for something on the corpse.

I don't think that was "To The Bone". That was the Logan/Chesley Watkins (Whoopi Goldberg) episode...

[Xeliou66]

On 2/16/2020 at 1:09 PM, peacheslatour said:

I'm watching To The Bone right now. I got a kick out of the ME slapping Bobby's hand when he was reaching for something on the corpse.

 

20 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I don't think that was "To The Bone". That was the Logan/Chesley Watkins (Whoopi Goldberg) episode...

Goren wasn’t in To The Bone, so you must be thinking of another episode - but there were several times that Goren would get up close to the bodies in the morgue and ME Rodgers would look annoyed with his antics, it was very funny and something which happened in several episodes. 

One thing that always annoyed me though is when they would have Goren notice things that Rodgers or other forensics people missed - it was done just to make Goren look even smarter, Rodgers was a thoroughly competent ME and the forensics people were elite as well but we’re expected to believe they missed stuff and only Goren could notice it? This happened a few times throughout the course of the show. 

[peacheslatour]

15 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

 

Goren wasn’t in To The Bone, so you must be thinking of another episode - but there were several times that Goren would get up close to the bodies in the morgue and ME Rodgers would look annoyed with his antics, it was very funny and something which happened in several episodes. 

One thing that always annoyed me though is when they would have Goren notice things that Rodgers or other forensics people missed - it was done just to make Goren look even smarter, Rodgers was a thoroughly competent ME and the forensics people were elite as well but we’re expected to believe they missed stuff and only Goren could notice it? This happened a few times throughout the course of the show. 

Just part of his characterization. I just had never seen her slap him before.

Quote

Goren wasn’t in To The Bone, so you must be thinking of another episode

You're right. The show is on ION and WE at the same time and I tend to jump between them.

[Xeliou66]

11 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Just part of his characterization. I just had never seen her slap him before.

You're right. The show is on ION and WE at the same time and I tend to jump between them.

Yeah I always found it funny when Goren would get up close to the bodies and poke around at them and ME Rodgers reactions to him. Rodgers was awesome, her interactions with the detectives on both the Mothership and CI were great. 

[WendyCR72]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I always found it funny when Goren would get up close to the bodies and poke around at them and ME Rodgers reactions to him. Rodgers was awesome, her interactions with the detectives on both the Mothership and CI were great. 

Rodgers definitely had her roots in the Mothership, no denying it. But as I have said before, she was practically another semi-regular part of the CI cast, at least in later seasons. Of course, much had to do with her....whatever...with Ross, but Rodgers still had good interactions with Goren [and got involved in his family drama], Eames, Logan, and such.

As an aside, I wish Leslie Hendrix kept her red hair. [Not even sure if that was her natural color, but she looked good as a redhead - and had the temperament for it!]

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Rodgers definitely had her roots in the Mothership, no denying it. But as I have said before, she was practically another semi-regular part of the CI cast, at least in later seasons. Of course, much had to do with her....whatever...with Ross, but Rodgers still had good interactions with Goren [and got involved in his family drama], Eames, Logan, and such.

As an aside, I wish Leslie Hendrix kept her red hair. [Not even sure if that was her natural color, but she looked good as a redhead - and had the temperament for it!]

Rodgers was awesome, I liked how she got featured on CI, although I didn’t like how they hinted at a relationship between her and Douchebag Ross and I especially didn’t like how she gave Ross Goren’s confidential info about his father and I thought Goren had every right to go bonkers on her. But Rodgers always had great interactions with the detectives on both the Mothership and CI, she really brought a spark to her scenes. It’s funny, after we had this conversation yesterday about Rodgers annoyance with Goren poking at the bodies, I was watching the Mothership last night and Lupo tried to take a swab from the victims hair and Rodgers stopped him and said “any time you want to change jobs, let me know”. LOL, I thought that was funny after our discussion yesterday and I liked how that happened on both shows. 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Xeliou66

[WendyCR72]

One scene, and there was no real dialogue highlighting it, but just by action that I liked with Goren/Rodgers was in "Loyalty", actually. (First, to get this out of the way, in real life, I doubt Rodgers would even be the M.E. on scene considering her dalliance with the deceased, but whatever!)

Rodgers was haltingly speaking/emotional [for her] as she told Goren and Eames how the FBI was running roughshod, etc., and how they would never get through to Ross' body, and Goren just sort of put a comforting hand on Liz's shoulder and rubbed it in a consoling manner before he and Eames went and fought with the Feds. It showed kindness, yes, but I guess it also showed that, even if Rodgers did get irked by Goren, there was a sort of camaraderie/respect, too.

[peacheslatour]

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

One scene, and there was no real dialogue highlighting it, but just by action that I liked with Goren/Rodgers was in "Loyalty", actually. (First, to get this out of the way, in real life, I doubt Rodgers would even be the M.E. on scene considering her dalliance with the deceased, but whatever!)

Rodgers was haltingly speaking/emotional [for her] as she told Goren and Eames how the FBI was running roughshod, etc., and how they would never get through to Ross' body, and Goren just sort of put a comforting hand on Liz's shoulder and rubbed it in a consoling manner before he and Eames went and fought with the Feds. It showed kindness, yes, but I guess it also showed that, even if Rodgers did get irked by Goren, there was a sort of camaraderie/respect, too.

There's something about Bobby Goren that makes me feel protective of him.

[Xeliou66]

Yes I liked that scene in Loyalty as well and I definitely think there was a mutual respect between Rodgers and all of the detectives. 

[WendyCR72]

16 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

There's something about Bobby Goren that makes me feel protective of him.

I approve this message. Eames seemed to feel that way more often than not, too. Hell, as we discuss "Loyalty", I recall how pissed she got when Nichols was trying to throw the FBI off of Bobby as he [Nichols] told Eames they would have to investigate Bobby (for murder) and gave Nichols the death glare and told him to go alone.

"Loyalty" was such a depressing two-parter, but the characterizations were spot on.

[Xeliou66]

Loyalty was just exceptionally confusing to me - I’ve seen it several times and I still can’t exactly put my finger on who all the characters were and what exactly their motives were - it was just too complex. Yeah it had a depressing overtone to it as well, with them having to let the main villain go at the end, but I just didn’t care when Ross was killed off, the guy was a massive douchebag, so I wasn’t sad to see him go. I did like seeing Nichols work with Goren and Eames, I wish they had had more episodes with all of the detectives working together, they should’ve done that more often. But overall Loyalty was a confusing, jumbled mess where it was very hard to figure out what the hell was going on.

[WendyCR72]

On 2/24/2020 at 3:50 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Loyalty was just exceptionally confusing to me - I’ve seen it several times and I still can’t exactly put my finger on who all the characters were and what exactly their motives were - it was just too complex. Yeah it had a depressing overtone to it as well, with them having to let the main villain go at the end, but I just didn’t care when Ross was killed off, the guy was a massive douchebag, so I wasn’t sad to see him go. I did like seeing Nichols work with Goren and Eames, I wish they had had more episodes with all of the detectives working together, they should’ve done that more often. But overall Loyalty was a confusing, jumbled mess where it was very hard to figure out what the hell was going on.

All I really remember from the whole "Loyalty" arc was that a good number of the audience really did not like how it ended for Goren and Eames. (Probably why both agreed to return for a final hurrah since the S9 change seemed to fail so spectacularly, and I know VDO/KE have said as much about coming back - to give the fans a more satisfying ending.)

[Xeliou66]

30 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

All I really remember from the whole "Loyalty" arc was that a good number of the audience really did not like how it ended for Goren and Eames. (Probably why both agreed to return for a final hurrah since the S9 change seemed to fail so spectacularly, and I know VDO/KE have said as much about coming back - to give the fans a more satisfying ending.)

Yeah it was a very unsatisfying end for Goren and Eames, with Goren being fired and Eames declining to take over the squad, I’m glad that they came back for season 10 to get a good ending. The plot of Loyalty was a convoluted mess - featuring pirates, warlords and an attempt to start a new country in Africa, it was way too complicated to follow who killed who and why, I just know they had to let the main villain go in the end because the feds needed him for something. And I felt nothing when asshole Ross bit the dust. Overall Loyalty was just a disaster. 

[Dirtybubble]

I'm still disappointed in the series finale.  I was hoping the session with the psychiatrist would go somewhere with Det. Goren but it just sort of ended....and gosh darn it I wanted to see Goren in a love relationship with SOMEONE!  God lawd that man needed to get laid! 

This is a good article that airs out the same grievances I had with the episode.

 

[WendyCR72]

On 2/27/2020 at 11:42 AM, Dirtybubble said:

I'm still disappointed in the series finale.  I was hoping the session with the psychiatrist would go somewhere with Det. Goren but it just sort of ended....and gosh darn it I wanted to see Goren in a love relationship with SOMEONE!  God lawd that man needed to get laid! 

This is a good article that airs out the same grievances I had with the episode.

 

Frankly, I liked the ending. No explosions, no one died. And just G/E doing what they do best. But I do think S10 was to please shippers and anti-shippers alike. Goren said he didn't love Eames in session with Gyson, BUT the show also brought up the "EVERYBODY lies..." theme and the scene at the end with Goren staring intently at Eames as he exited the shrink brownstone, etc.

So maybe Goren did get some loving if you look at it in "middle of the road" mode - or not. It all comes down to each POV and/or imagination. But, like I said, I liked how the show ended. A nice, upbeat PEACEFUL ending. And I like that - in not going drastic - it seemed to make the audience happier than their S9 exit ever did.

On another note, I wonder if SVU will end with Olivia dying of old age, since SVU just got renewed for three more seasons. LOL!

[WendyCR72]

On another note, the last episode of today's WE marathon is "The Pilgrim", the one with the American teacher - played by Ryder Strong - who sympathized with the whole 9/11 deal. I STILL get a kick out of John Bolger as the FBI guy, considering he would later end up the dead guy on two different episodes of the show.

I will say Ryder Strong was good here. I didn't expect much when I originally saw it since I had only ever seen him on Boy Meets World. Speaking of which, I wonder whatever happened to him? I know he made appearances on the "sequel" BMW show, Girl Meets World, but then, he seemingly went poof!

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

I STILL get a kick out of John Bolger as the FBI guy, considering he would later end up the dead guy on two different episodes of the show.

Ironic I wrote this just hours before: "Slither" from S5 is on MyNetwork and John Bolger plays the first of his two dead characters. (The other would come in S9, "Traffic".) As a bit of trivia, John Bolger's uncle was actor Ray Bolger, who played The Scarecrow in The Wizard of Oz.

[WendyCR72]

Read in some news article about Harvey Weinstein that Annabella Sciorra was actually one of those who testified against him in court. Sounds like she had a trying time because of him for a while.

Hope the verdict against him has brought her a measure of peace.

[Jaded]

I think I first saw John Bolger as Gabe on Another World when Lorna was played by Robin Christoper. I loved them as a couple and was sad when his character was killed off. I hated it when Robin left too.