Last Tango In Halifax - General Discussion

[IrishPirate]

I missed this one. Have to hunt it down now.

[kieyra]

I watched both but it didn't leave much of an impression, or else maybe re-trod old ground too much. There's something about the show that doesn't click for me the way Happy Valley does. The showrunner does seem to have a penchant for having middle-aged, exhausted, overworked ladies be handed babies to take care of. (Gillian and Caroline here, and Catherine on Happy Valley.) 

I also watched the Christmas special as a new viewer who'd just binged the first three seasons, so I was still somewhat nonplussed about Kate's lesbian death trope death and John's ongoing presence in the show. All I really remember from the special is another endless game of "Gillian killed Eddie and here's another new twist". 

Theres something about LTIF that doesn't feel quite as organic as Happy Valley, and HP, while being a much more brutal show, has at least a few characters who are genuinely likeable/good people (Clare, and Ann's dead mother). It's difficult to watch Gillian continually blow up her life, and Caroline's mother is like a de-fanged Emily Gilmore. 

[albaniantv]

http://tellyspotting.kera.org/2016/12/20/new-last-tango-in-halifax-2-part-series-special-headed-to-pbs-in-2017/

 

Looks like we get the 2 parter, but not clear to me if there's anymore to this season

[Quilt Fairy]

AFAIK, there is no season 4 yet, this was a one-off Christmas special, which is a delightful UK custom that I wish we had here in the US instead of endless sports/repeats for the holidays.  But I'll take good news where I can get it.  One thing where I totally disagreed with the reviewer (who had obviously not watched the series at all) is that binge-watching this show is not the same as wasting 18 hours of your life.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Quilt Fairy

[Valny]

Oh so cool about the Christmas special but damn I wish they'd give us a US date.

 In the trailer- I wonder who that lady is that Caroline is talking to in the kitchen. Did Kate have a sister? Don't think so.  Aw and little Flora looks so cute, what I could see of her.

Quote

 

[Emily Thrace]

On 2017-01-08 at 9:50 PM, kieyra said:

Theres something about LTIF that doesn't feel quite as organic as Happy Valley, and HP, while being a much more brutal show, has at least a few characters who are genuinely likeable/good people (Clare, and Ann's dead mother). It's difficult to watch Gillian continually blow up her life, and Caroline's mother is like a de-fanged Emily Gilmore. 

LTIF is a comedy though and the characters are actually supposed to be larger than life. I like to think of it more as a pleasant diversion where Happy Valley is gripping. Happy Valley is actually something of a departure for British drama where its gritty and realistic.  You might want to try Scott and Bailey its probably more your style.

I did like that they really seem to delve into Gillian's pysche and the scars Eddie left there. Even if they did it in an off the wall sort of way. Whether it was all in her head Eddie does still haunt in a very real way and its at the root of so much of dysfunction. Even the verbal diarrhea was shown how it was a defense mechanism in the scene with Robbie. She probably used to do that with Eddie just saying whatever popped into her head to keep him calm or distract him when something set him off. As much as I love Gillian and wanted her to be happy with Robbie the final outcome is a lot more realistic. I also wonder if he might come back yet once he's had some time to think. The way he tells it he's been in love with Gillian most of his life

Although it would have been nice to get more of Raf in all of this. They never did say if he was off at university or not. Or even address how he feels about his Dad. He's very perceptive about his mother and seemed to get why she was freaking about Calamity's imaginary friend. Yet they've never addressed whether he was aware of the abuse or how his mother put an end to it. I almost thought she might tell him when they were sitting at the table together after Robbie left. Its something they hinted at heavily but its never been addressed. Maybe that will be part of Gillian's story next season. Of all the boys he's my favourite and he has the most actual personality, it would be nice to see him get an actual arc.

I liked Olga. In a lot of ways she feels like a better match for Caroline than Kate was. Caroline needs some to challenge her I think and Kate was always a bit of a pushover. Although Kate was something of a cipher so it nice that Olga has if anything too much personality.

[Emily Thrace]

On 2015-08-04 at 2:25 PM, dcalley said:

Yep, and she had a great excuse to call it off herself (Robbie being drunk & sick at the altar), and she passed it up. Gah! I don't even know why the man marrying them went on with it, unless everyone really believed Robbie's assertions that it was a stomach bug and not alcohol that made him sick.

I was almost wondering when he started sweating if he was going to have a heart attack at the altar.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Per Derek Jacobi, there will be no more Last Tango in Halifax due to Sally Wainwright's schedule

The BBC responded to Jacobi’s comments with a statement:  “Sally is presently engaged with another BBC project, but has every intention of revisiting Last Tango when she is able to.”

[Valny]

Aw, that sucks. I was really looking forward to a new season.

Well I hope that BBC statement will come true, and Wainwright will one day get back to writing  for new LTiH eps.  ...even though Jacobi says no.

But don't wait too long Sally, some of these actors are getting older!

But if I can't see the great Sarah Lancashire anymore in Halifax, I really need to see her again in Happy Valley!

Edited November 14, 2017 by Valny

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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Two widowers rekindle a passionate relationship that fate stole from them decades ago.

Edited November 24, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Even though I don't know any of these characters yet, I was disappointed when Caroline let John move back in. He left her for another woman and wants to come back, not because he loves Caroline and their family, but because his new girlfriend is an alcoholic? GTFO!

Alan and Celia telling their families how they'd reconnected on facebook was so adorable. I love that no matter how old you are, the excitement of having a crush and not knowing exactly how to say or what to do are still there.

Loved the short scene where we got to see both Gillian and Caroline beginning their work days.

I'm all for Gillian having sex, but Paul was so skeevy when he came to the store. Grooooooooss.

Ha, loved Celia chasing down the kids who stole Alan's car!

While I totally understand both Celia and Alan lamenting what might have been, getting engaged after one afternoon together? Slow your roll, kids! Maybe have tea a few more times first just to make sure you get on in real life, not just your fantasies.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Celia: What's the collective noun for women who aren't very fussy?

Celia: Caroline says it takes two people to make a marriage go wrong.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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Celia and Alan decide to buy an extravagant sports car instead of an engagement ring.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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Celia and Alan's search for a wedding venue leaves them trapped in a haunted mansion.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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Caroline and Gillian become unexpectedly close when Alan and Celia go missing all night.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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Alan finds it hard to choose his best man, and John outs Caroline and Kate.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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Gillian and Robbie grow closer, and Alan calls the wedding off.

[Anothermi]

I saw this show back when it 1st aired, and everyone is in for a treat with this 1st Season/Series(UK). I found the characters both believable and strange. (there are some personalities I've not encountered much in my own life).

I'm only going to be able to post in reaction to what turns up in each episode because it was so long ago that I saw this that I can't trust my memory to not mix up the episode events.

Enjoy.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One thing I liked was when Celia and Alan realized that they bad both thought the other was at fault all because Eileen never gave Celia's letter to Alan. It's easy to wonder about what might have been with the one who got away, which is why I liked that Celia said that even if Eileen had given her letter to Alan, she still would have married her cheating husband because he represented everything that she wanted at the time. It would have been easy for her to imagine a Sliding Doors scenario where she and Alan got married and had their own family, so I liked that she was very honest and practical about the fact that the letter itself wouldn't have completely altered the courses of their lives. But I still blame Eileen for not giving Alan that letter. Imagine thinking for 60 years that someone had stood you up or didn't like you enough to write even once.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm not sure I can make the leap from "had one missed date in high school with someone I had a crush on" to "I've been in love with Alan for 60 years" and "I know him better than I know myself." As Caroline pointed out, Celia and Alan have spent the last 60 years apart and people change, so how well do they know each other right now? I have no objection to them dating/being in a relationship. I just don't see why they feel they need to get married right away.

Heh, my grandmother was the opposite. About twenty years after my grandfather died, she started dating someone. She really liked him and he kept asking her to marry him and she kept saying no. She said she'd already been married and didn't need to do it again. She was perfectly happy having a relationship with this new guy but she said she didn't want to live with him or marry him.

I loved that when Michael tried to blackmail Caroline about her relationship with Kate, she told him to fuck right off. Ugh, what a slimeball.

I'm glad that Gillian decided to tell Raff the truth about his father's death. I know she was trying to protect him, but he's old enough to know the truth and it's much better that he hear it from her now that Robbie is trying to put the "your mom killed your dad" story out there.

But, oh, Gillian. You can do SO MUCH BETTER than Paul. No matter how physically attractive she may find him, his personality is loathsome. And he's engaged which just makes him even grosser for prowling about for other women.

Also gross - John's persistence in trying to move back into Catherine's bedroom. I don't understand why she doesn't toss him out on his ear instead of giving in whenever he asks for something. First she lets him move back in and now she's ready to let him back into her bed? Catherine, you can do so much better too. She and Gillian need to have someone tell them that.

Also on my shit list: Judith. Her reasons for wanting to be with John were very sad. She's 43, she's unemployed, she's bored, and her life lurches from one embarrassing thing to another. How is being with someone like John going to change any of that?

And poor William - his dad is such an asshole for asking him to keep a big secret like JUDITH COMING TO THEIR HOUSE. All I know about John so far is that he's a shit husband and a shit father. But he did seem pretty happy for Celia and Alan, so I guess there's that. Cute that William was so excited about it too. And it was nice to see Raff and William getting along.

I totally support Celia and Alan buying a car instead of an engagement ring. What you want when you're 20 is different from what you want when you're 70. If you want to buy a car, then you should! Loved when Celia asked the car salesman why he assumed that she and Alan were married. Ha!

I was so glad when William finally let out John's secret. That poor kid didn't deserve to be put in that position. Hell of a way to end an engagement party!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Michael: It's not just me that [Katie] may be saying these things to, and it could be damaging to you if any governors or parents et cetera, or one of your two boys even, for instance, got wind of-
Caroline: What do you want, Michael? Bigger budget for your Hands Across Europe project? Head of department when Mrs Aspinall moves on?
Michael: Look, I can be discreet.
Caroline: Sod off, you little prick. Do you really think you can humiliate me? Go for it, genius. Spread a few rumors. It'll say more about you than it ever will about me. This is 2012. I'm single. She's single. We're adults. We had a fling. The ladies have landed. Quite a long time ago, in fact. Get over it. She spoke to you because she was upset, and this is how you respond? Bad move. And shame on you, as well.

Judith: You think you can just pick people up like that, and then just drop them?
John: Well, certainly when people start hitting people, yes. It makes it more of an option.

John: Mum has got some news for everyone.
Caroline: What? Have I?
William: You're not pregnant?
Caroline: Oh, don't be stupid. I'm 45.

Edited November 29, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

William: Mum. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said anything. They weren't doing anything.
Caroline: They were just drunk. He let her into the house. It doesn't matter whether they were doing anything or not. What matters is that he's shallow and weak-willed and I can't trust him. Much as I'd like to. For your sake. My sake. Everyone's sake.

Caroline: I've spent the best years of my life married to an unreliable, shallow-minded self-centered jerk.
Kate: Yes.

Alan: Why shouldn't you have a pop song at a funeral if it's something that you've liked, something that's meant something to you?
Celia: Pop songs are for for discos and pubs and social clubs.

Celia: And he's Scottish.
Alan: Now there's an unassailable political argument!

Alan: I thought I spotted a Daily Mail lurking in your recycling bin.
Celia: What's wrong with the Daily Mail?
Alan: What's wrong with it? What's right with it?

Vicar: When did you last go to church?
Alan: Christmas...1977.

Celia: Oh, I used to love South Ouram Hall. Is it still there?
Alan: Yeah, yeah, far as I know.
Celia: They've not mucked it up?
Alan: No, I think it's just as creepy as it ever were.

Edited November 29, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Oh, Lawrence, it's not William's fault for telling Caroline that Judith was at the house. It's John's fault for letting his ex-girlfriend into his family's home and getting drunk with her in the middle of the day. That's poor judgment if ever I saw it.

It was gross watching John try to get Gillian over on his side. And then just because she didn't tell him to piss off, he thought he could just call her to go on and on about his life? Some people have jobs, John. I'm just counting down the minutes before he tries to sleep with Gillian.

Heh, I'm with Caroline. As happy as I am for Celia, I do not need to hear about my mom's sex life ever.

Am I supposed to feel sorry for Paul? BECAUSE I DON'T. His fiancée dumped him, her brothers beat him up, his dad kicked him out, and his mom doesn't want to see him. Yeah, that sounds about right. It's called karma, you idiot. If he hadn't (1) cheated on his fiancée and (2) been absolutely lascivious every time he saw Gillian and (3) TAUNTED Gillian's son with the fact that he was having sex with his mother, then none of this would have happened. He couldn't just leave well enough alone. It wasn't enough that he was cheating on his girlfriend. He had to rub it in Raffy's face because that's how mature he is.

Now we are beginning to see the cracks in the whole "I know Alan better than I know myself" that Celia tried to feed to Caroline. If she really knew Alan, she would know that he never liked church and their politics are opposite. But she didn't know that because (1) she didn't really know him when she was 16 and (2) she hadn't spoken to him in 60 years. Don't get me wrong - people don't have to agree on EVERYTHING in order to have a happy marriage. I just think it was silly for her to claim that she knew Alan so well after six decades of absolutely no communication, and this just proves it.

Why on earth would Celia want to get married in that creepy haunted hall?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Gillian: Biking and boozing were his two big career choices.

John: You can't make a career and a living out of potential!

Raff: I don't mind [Gillian] having a boyfriend, but why can't she pick somebody who (A) isn't a dickhead, (B) isn't 300 years younger than she is, and (C) wasn't engaged to somebody else?

Gillian: Don't be depressed. It's a waste of time. Just move on. It's easier said than done, I know.

Edited November 29, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Although it was a bit contrived to have Alan and Celia locked in a creepy old hall in order to bring the others closer together, I still love that Gillian and Caroline have connected and are forming a friendship and I'm glad that it got Raff to stop being mad at Gillian for a little while. I normally disagree with just about everything John says, but he did have a bit of wisdom last week when he said Raff will have to get over the fact that his mom has sex. If she's having sex with someone half her age, more power to her.

I am a big fraidy cat so I wouldn't have been at that spooky hall in the first place, but Alan and Celia were remarkably calm about it, joking about the ghost and playing cards.

John can GTFO. It's perfectly fine for him to leave his family to live with his girlfriend for four months, come crawling back, let his girlfriend into their home to get drunk in the middle of the afternoon, guilt trip his son into keeping her visit a secret, and then reprimand his kid for having the gall to tell the truth, but how dare Caroline date someone?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Loved how delighted Gillian was when she came home to find Alan and Celia dancing. The way she was hiding and taking pictures while smiling was adorable.

I really felt for Caroline because my parents have been known to call me when I'm at work and then go on and on and then act slightly offended that I don't have all day to chitchat with them WHILE I AM AT WORK.

I am totally fine with Celia staying at Alan's for a few days, but that doesn't mean she should expect Caroline to put together an overnight bag full of underwear, toothbrushes, and other necessities and drive it to her. As Caroline pointed out, Celia can go to the store. If you can go to the pub and test drive cars with your boyfriend, you can ask him to stop at the store. When Celia started guilt tripping Caroline about how she could have caught pneumonia the night before and she should be resting instead of going to Halifax, I just rolled my eyes. Classic mom guilt trip.

I thought it was cute when Paul asked how old Gillian would be on her birthday and Alan kind of dodged the question. And how weird is it that Gillian and Caroline have the exact same birthday?

I totally disagree with Celia - it's not weird to have two best men. Have as many as you like! I have two sisters so I had both of them be my maids of honor. I didn't care if people thought it was unusual. It's my wedding so I get to decide how many attendants I have! Besides, if you're going to buy a Lexus instead of an engagement ring, are you really concerned with what other people think?

Gillian and Robbie? Uh, no thanks.

John needs to GTFO. He has no right to demand who Caroline has been seeing. I wish I could say that his level of arrogance was astounding, but it's not.

Paul's mother can also GTFO. Just because Gillian had sex with Paul doesn't mean that he is now her responsibility and that his mother can dump him on her doorstep like an unwanted kitten.

Is it wrong that I started to like Judith when she told John what an idiot he was being about lesbians?

Very sweet that Alan bought Gillian another car to replace the one that went up in flames.

Damn it, Gillian, you can do so much better than idiots like Paul and John! Quit sleeping with these losers.

Edited November 26, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Caroline: When is it your birthday, by the way, out of interest? Just cause it's mine tomorrow.
Gillian: Tomorrow. You're kidding. It's mine tomorrow.
Caroline: How weird is that? How old are you?
Gillian: How old are you?
Caroline: 46, I will be tomorrow.
Gillian: Oh, good Lord!
Caroline: That's a bit-
Gillian: We're twins!
Caroline: Well, we're something.

John: She's not a lesbian.
Judith: Oh, okay, so what would you call it then if she's getting into bed with another woman?
John: No, she's just not a lesbian. Whatever it is she's doing with this other woman, she's not. She just doesn't look like a lesbian. I know what lesbians look like. We have them on campus. They meet in Derwent Bar on Monday nights.
Judith: God! Aren't you quaint? What decade do you live in?
John: Do you think she looks like a lesbian? Oh, you've never seen her.
Judith: No, but I'm warming to her. I wonder what it's like.
John: What?
Judith: To get hot and steamy with another woman.
John: God, well, I can't imagine it's- What do they do? They haven't got anything to do anything with, have they?
Judith: Are you being deliberately stupid? No, course not, you're just lashing out. Who wouldn't? You've just found out that the woman you've been married to for how long?
John: 18 years.
Judith: 18 years! Has probably been faking it, every single time.
John: No, no, she hasn't, she wouldn't.
Judith: Well, either that or every time you made her come she was pretending that you were, you know, a girl. A girly, a girly-whirly!
John: No, no, no, that's... We had... Me and Caroline had fantastic...
Judith: You don't know what's in people's heads. You don't know what was in my head when I shagged you.

Edited November 29, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Anothermi]

That's what I love about the writing.  No easy outs. What Eileen did was  truly a betrayal, but Celia - with hindsight, bless it -  was able to recognize that she would have broken Alan's heart anyway. 

Alan, on the other hand  didn't have to live with the bitterness of knowing how shallow Celia's decision was.  She only knew that Alan was the better choice because she'd lived with, endured so to speak, the one that she made.

[Anothermi]

Hee!  It's complicated.  Just the tip of the iceberg.

Re: wanting to get married right away.  I can relate, I guess.  They both had had other options way back when.  That is irresistible when life throws you a curve ball.  They both had the fall back of what might have been to compare to what was.  Fantasy, yes, but it can feel real if you imagine it often enough. 

Just the fact that they both wanted to re-connect could trigger (completely separate) imagined "memories" and clearing up the reason Celia didn't reply would have been enough for Alan. Knowing that someone had pined for her all these years would have been enough for Celia.

Gillian.  Can't help but feel for her, but she IS complicated.

Michael. Yeah. Such a slime ball. But one hates to think someone you chose to marry has NO redeeming features. That's what I think is confusing Catherine.  Who wants to admit they are THAT STUPID!

Didn't Michael and Catherine have 2 sons? Is William the younger? If yes?  Just grrrrrrrr.

[Anothermi]

@ElectricBoogaloo  I love that you gather and post quotes.  I've stopped, but it's been one of my favourite threads on show forums. 

THANK YOU.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 hours ago, Anothermi said:

Michael. Yeah. Such a slime ball. But one hates to think someone you chose to marry has NO redeeming features. That's what I think is confusing Catherine.  Who wants to admit they are THAT STUPID!

Didn't Michael and Catherine have 2 sons? Is William the younger? If yes?  Just grrrrrrrr.

Yes, they have two sons. William is the older one with the curly reddish hair who is studying for his A levels. Lawrence is the younger one with dark hair.

Michael is the slimy coworker who Kate accidentally told about dating Caroline. He is the one who was trying to blackmail Caroline with this info. John is her sucky ex-husband.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

@Anothermi - there have been some great quotes so far! Looking forward to S2!

[Anothermi]

19 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Yes, they have two sons. William is the older one with the curly reddish hair who is studying for his A levels. Lawrence is the younger one with dark hair.

Michael is the slimy coworker who Kate accidentally told about dating Caroline. He is the one who was trying to blackmail Caroline with this info. John is her sucky ex-husband.

Right. Thanks. Working on fuzzy memories. Michael was not a retained memory, so he became John for me.

Sorry.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Just now, Anothermi said:

Right. Thanks. Working on fuzzy memories. Michael was not a retained memory, so he became John for me.

Sorry.

No worries! It's all fresh in my mind since I just watched it! Heh, plus I know it's easy to mix up one jerky guy for another.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I loved that Alan called off the wedding. If there's anything that's become crystal clear in the last year or so, it's not enough to say that you love someone lumps and all when those lumps include being a bigot and being blatantly rude to people for being gay.

It took a lot for Alan to tell her how he felt, so it made me like him even more. It's too easy to look the other way or say "that's not my business" so I was glad that he told her how disappointed he was with her terrible behavior.

It felt like a copout to have Celia's blatant bigotry chalked up as "I thought it was my fault she's gay" and now all's well - after she was petty and rude to both Kate and Caroline, accused Kate of cozying up to Caroline just to get a promotion, and said it sickened her to see Kate touch Caroline's hand. And then she had the nerve to go to Caroline and blame her for Alan dumping her and want sympathy from Caroline! Celia can be quite the self-centered whiny brat. It's a wonder she doesn't get along better with John since they have that in common.

I'm still a bit wary of Robbie. I don't know how Gillian can so easily forgive him for years of his shitty attitude, accusing her of murdering his brother, or telling Raff that. But even with all that, he STILL seems way better than John so there's that. Gillian at least had the sense to know that sleeping with John was a mistake as soon as the morning after.

Edited December 4, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

John: Who are you?
Gillian: That's Paul. He was here yesterday. You have met him.
John: No, I mean, what is he?
Paul: I'm a gigolo.

Paul: You been at it with [John]?
Gillian: What's it to you?
Paul: Slapper.
Gillian: He is a very erudite man.
Paul: So am I.
Gillian: Yeah, you don't know what it means.
Paul: Yeah, but if I did, I would be.
Gillian: Yeah, good point, Paul. Can't argue with that!

Gillian: Why does [Celia] have to move out so fast? Is she frightened she's going to get infected with lesbian spores?

Caroline: I specifically asked you not to tell my mum. I said, "Tell who the hell you like, but let me tell the boys and my mum."
John: I didn't plan it.
Caroline: You didn't plan it? What do you mean, you didn't plan it? You drove 60 miles over to Halifax - how is that not planning it?

John: Can I ask you something, just out of interest? Out of all the hundreds, thousands of times we had sex . . what were you thinking about?
Caroline: Do you mean, was I dreaming about other people? I don't know. I can't remember. Possibly. You know when you were screwing me at the same time you were screwing Judith? What were you thinking about?
John: Yes, OK, but the point- 
Caroline: I was a good wife. You were the one who blew it, John, not me.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Gillian: I need to tell you this thing.
Caroline: Okay.
Gillian: You'll probably think I'm a complete dipstick when I've told you, but I'd rather be upfront about it and then you know, and then we can either move forward or not. So first of all I don't regret it. I don't regret anything, I make a point of not regretting things. However-
Caroline: You've slept with John.
Gillian: I was pissed. It was my birthday. I felt sorry for him, for being such a twat, he looked so pathetic.
Caroline: Oh, you really have slept with John? What was it like?
Gillian: To be honest . . I don't actually remember very much about it, except that it happened. Are you hating me?
Caroline: No.
Gillian: I didn't want you to find out later from someone else and think there was any more to it than there was, because there wasn't, there really wasn't. It was one of those things you do and after you go, "God, why did I do that?!" And the truth is . . I was pissed. I don't even fancy him. I mean, you know, I don't mind him, but- I'm daring to hope that this isn't going down too badly judging by the expression on your face.
Caroline: I'm pleased you told me.
Gillian: It won't happen again.
Caroline: No, no you can have him.
Gillian: I don't want him.
Caroline: He's got a good income.
Gillian: I don't care. Do you hate me?
Caroline: No.
Gillian: Are you laughing at me or with me?
Caroline: I don't know, I'm just, I'm, I don't know, just laughing.
Gillian: You're thinking, "Braindead, low-life, trailer trash," aren't you?
Caroline: Yeah. But that's cause I'm a snotty bitch.
Gillian: It's good that you're taking it so well. Maybe you're in shock. Maybe the implications haven't sunk in yet.
Caroline: Are there any? You're not pregnant, are you?
Gillian: No! That really would thicken the plot.

Celia: I've got my new hat. So that's that bit covered. Something old, something new.
Alan: Something old we've not got.
Celia: Well, we're both old.
Alan: Are we?
Celia: Well, you are, I'm not. I started counting backwards when I got to 36.
Alan: So how old does that make you now then?
Celia: Minus three.
Alan: Fancy.
Celia: We had a very interesting experience in 1988, when me and our Caroline were both 22.

Alan: I thought we were plumbing depths with Susan Jatri's lad, but John? He's practically your brother-in-law.
Gillian: For the record, he is not my brother-in-law because, A, you're not married yet, and two - him and Caroline are getting divorced. Ipso-facto, QED, NOT my brother-in-law.

Gillian: I'm seeing Robbie.
John: I thought you hated Robbie.
Gillian: Yeah, I thought you hated Judith.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ugh, John is such a needy whiny little fucker. Even as he's insisting to Caroline that they should reconcile, he's having sex with Judith in their home while the kids are home and calling Gillian to say he's in love with her. I don't know what's worse - his complete narcissism or his insistence on making himself the victim in all of this. He is also really immature. He does what he wants and then has temper tantrums when he doesn't get his way. The way he's treated Gillian so far is what I'd expect from a 14 year old boy, not a grown man.

I'm glad that Gillian told Caroline that she slept with John. As painful as the fallout has been, it's better that she admitted it right away instead of keeping it a secret until John decided to drop another bomb on their families. On top of his lying, cheating, and selfishness, he's just such a sour negative person.

Once Gillian told John that she might lose the farm because she doesn't have enough money, I knew that he would use that to slither back into her life like an insidious snake. I'm counting the moments until he swoops in to try to rescue her like a white knight by saving the farm.

I think that one of the reasons Alan was so upset with Gillian for sleeping with John is that it's one thing to screw one of the neighbors (like Paul) but it's another to sleep with someone like John who, although not directly related to Gillian (yet) is someone in their extended family. Alan loves Celia and he has grown to care for Caroline and the boys. Gillian sleeping with John has the potential to blow all of that up.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Gillian: You can't get from Harrogate to Halifax in the space of 15 minutes. Not unless you're Captain Spock and you can disappear up your own backside in a cloud of glitter with a cheesy sound effect and land on another planet two seconds later. I don't think even Caroline can do that. I may be wrong.
Azeem: She means Mr. Spock.
Gillian: Who's he?
Alan: That's Azeem.

Alan: "Hobbies include farting about and doing bugger all."
Celia: I might put it on my CV.
Alan: Have you got one?
Celia: Have I, hell! I don't need one. I'm a woman of leisure. And means. Have been for some significant time. I'm quite a catch, let's face it, in oh so many ways.
Alan: And modest, too.
Celia: Hell, no! When did being modest ever get you anywhere?

Celia: Well, we've got married and had a baby in just 48 hours.

Edited December 4, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On the one hand, I think that your wedding day should be whatever YOU want it to be, even if that means getting married in the registry office with just the two of you. Not everyone wants a big fancy wedding with a lot of people, and that's your prerogative, even if there are no big health concerns.

I do understand that Gillian felt left out and that weddings are about bringing families together, but for me the only two people who the bride and groom need to make happy on their wedding day are the bride and groom. Not to sound like a total bridezilla, but your wedding day should be about marrying the person you love, not making everyone else in your family happy. You can include your families by having a celebratory dinner later.

Caroline is far too kind of John. After everything that he's done, she lets him come to her office at work in the middle of her busy day and bitch to her about how his life has gone to shit - despite the fact that it's all his own fault. I don't understand why she or Gillian ever answer the phone when they see that it's John calling.

Heh, I only like Judith when she's antagonizing John so I enjoyed her in this episode when she told him that she was chickenshit and not a very good writer and then threw him out. The only down side was that he then enacted his "manipulate Gillian with the promise of saving her farm" plan. He is so gross and predictable.

I had to laugh when Caroline's younger son said that maybe he'll go live with his dad. Oh, okay, upstairs at the house where you already live? Or at Judith's?

So Kate and Caroline are going to adopt Ellie's baby?

Edited December 4, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Hahahaha, I laughed so much every time John tried to inject himself into Kate and Celia's conversation about the baby (mostly to ask about Gillian) and they kept ignoring him.

Celia was being so judgmental (again). So Ellie's mom doesn't want to give up her high paying job to stay home and raise her granddaughter? What a monster! Seriously, STFU, Celia.

Gawd, why does Gillian answer the phone when John calls? He gets more pathetic as the show goes on. The look on her face when he said that she was the heroine in his new book was priceless.

What is up with Raff and Ellie's shitty attitudes? That baby is their responsibility so they can't just ignore both of their grandfathers telling them that the baby needs her diaper changed because they're playing a fucking video game. If you don't want to take time out of your busy video game schedule to care for your kid, put it up for adoption, but don't expect your grandparents to do everything for your kid while you spend your after school time doing really important things like watching tv.

Celia really screwed up. You don't get to talk about other people's abortions. The end. Even when Celia expressed some remorse later, she was still defending the fact that she opened her big mouth by saying that she didn't know Gillian even knew Robbie when she was 15. THAT'S NOT THE FUCKING POINT. Regardless of who knew who when or whose baby it was, that was not information about Gillian that Celia should share with ANYONE.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Kate: Has [Raff and Ellie's baby] really not got a name?
Celia: Well, nothing that's stuck. Gillian calls her Flossie, which to me is more what you might call a King Charles Spaniel. Alan calls her Emily Jane, but that's just so he can make it rhyme with stuff. Harry calls her Foo-Foo Tinkerbell or summat. But he's an idiot.

Celia: Where did you say [Caroline] was?
Kate: The year-12s are doing King Lear tonight.
Celia: That'll be one to slit your wrists to.

Alan: She needs her nappy changed.
[Raff and Ellie keep playing video game]
Harry: Little Nelly needs her nappy changed, kids. I said, the baby needs its nappy changed.
[turns off video game]
Ellie: Grandad!
Raff: What y' doing?
Harry: Ooh, knackers! Were you saving the universe?
Raff: Y'shouldn't have done that.
Harry: It's not real. Me and your grandad lived through the Blitz.
Ellie: Did you, heck? Blitz was in big cities. Halifax got one bomb dropped on it, and that were by accident cause some plank in the Luftwaffe couldn't find Manchester.
Harry: Oh, they know it all don't they? Except, oh, yeah, how to avoid getting pregnant.

Catherine: Why don't you talk to me about Alison Waterhouse? "A flaccid, overripe fruit of a woman."
John: I was experimenting with language, similes. It's a metaphor.
Catherine: It's a lazy metaphor. I mean, what sort of fruit are we talking about? A banana? A tangerine?
John: You know, people always think you've based characters on them and you haven't.
Catherine: And can we leave Alison's "dusky Negress" right out of it or Matthew Waterhouse will be getting his withering, shrivelling, starved-of-light, pink little bollocks chopped right off.
John: Right. Fine.
Celia: Is that what he's put?
John: Adjustments will be made. Can I have it back?
Caroline: No. You can whistle.
John: Caroline!
Caroline: And what about Lizzie Cunningham? Hmm? "A latter-day Bathsheba Everdene" no less, who owns her own sheep farm and has more suitors than she knows what to do with. Who does that remind us of? "A sullen, sinewy 40-something woman with the purposeful frame and carriage of a 16-year-old boy." Ooh, la-la! So Mummy isn't the only gay in the village. I'm sorry, I am sorry, I'm going to have to ring Gillian.
John: You are not going to ring Gillian.
Caroline: I am. I'm going to have to ring Gillian.
John: You are not ringing Gillian! Right! Ring bloody sodding Gillian then!
Caroline: Do you mind not using language like that in front of my mother?
John: Give it back. CAROLINE!?!
Celia: What's he put about me?
John: It's not you.
Caroline: The basic upshot is two people in their 70s in love who get together after ooh, 60 years? But it's not about you. And then their respective daughters - Alison, the flaccid, overripe fruit, who just happens to be the headmistress of a very marvelous public school, and Lizzie, with the body of a 16-year-old boy and a sheep farm.
Celia: I want to read it.
John: I've not written the bloody thing yet!
Celia: No, and I don't think you should if you're going to be rude about people.

Celia: This is my husband. And that's the baby.
Alan: We've not been married a week and look. You can't hang about, y'see, not when you get to our age.
Real estate agent: Right.
Celia: He's pulling your leg, love. We're actually the great grandparents. And me only 36.

Edited December 4, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Raff: I don't know then, how things are - legally. I don't know if that means [Ellie]'s left her with me and that's it, or if it means she can just come back any time she likes and just take [the baby].
John: No. No. You have rights too. You're on the birth certificate as the father.
Raff: Not yet, we've not-
John: Oh, well. You'll want to sort that out. I would, straightaway, right now. You've got to protect your interests. The law is weighted massively, ridiculously, on the side of the mother. If you're not even on the birth certificate, legally you're stuffed. Listen, I'm talking as someone whose relationship with his children has been really compromised by being married to a mad manipulative lesbian.
Raff: I thought it was cause you had a fling with that, um, Judith?

Maurice: She were a character were Alan's mother.
Harry: By God, she was. Do you remember that time she hit you over the head with a frying pan?
Maurice: I've still got a mark to prove it. Six-year-old. I were seeing stars for a fortnight.
Harry: You shouldn't have said that about her big knickers on the washing line.
Maurice: It were only an observation. It wasn't a criticism.

Caroline: When we were leaving, just before, my mum said this thing. She said, "We've discussed it and Alan doesn't mind "if you want to call him dad now we're married."
Kate: Is that not? That's nice. Isn't it?
Caroline: I don't know. I like Alan. I like him a lot but he's not my dad. My dad's dead. But he's still me dad. He'll always be me dad for all his faults.

Celia: Can I help you?
Judith: Yes. I'm looking for John.
Celia: He's not here.
Judith: Well, where is he then?
Celia: Who wants to know?
Judith: I do.
Lawrence: That's Judith.
Celia: Is it.
Judith: And you are?
Celia: I'm Caroline's mother.
Judith: Ah.
Celia: So you're her, are you? You're the whore.
Lawrence: Whoa, Granny.

Gillian: So tell us about this novel then.
John: Oh, the novel. Well, it's barely started. It's at a very preliminary stage.
Gillian: What's the plot?
John: Well, essentially, it's a sort of - well, it's a family saga, I suppose, potentially.
Gillian: Okay, and what happens?
John: Well-
Gillian: Who's in it besides me?
John: Well, when I said it was you I didn't mean literally you, I meant more-
Raff: Am I in it?
John: More sort of you were a sort of inspiration, as it were. If that doesn't sound too-
Gillian: Wanky. Yeah, does a bit.

Caroline: This is hard for me.
Kate: Yeah, well grow up. You think it's easy for anyone?

Edited December 5, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Why do these people keep telling their secrets to the two most gossipy people? You can't tell Celia or John anything!

I hate that Gillian apologized to Celia for overreacting. I wanted to reach through the screen and tell her that she DID NOT overreact and Celia was a blabbermouthed bitch for telling Robbie that she had an abortion.

I had mixed feelings about the entire Caroline/Kate situation. On the one hand, Caroline was very sweet to take Kate to a cute little hotel for her birthday weekend. That's about all I've got on the pro list for Caroline. I totally understand why Kate was upset that Caroline booked two single rooms for them. What the hell? I'm not saying that sex is the point of a birthday weekend, but separate rooms? If you are that paranoid, just go to a town far away where you don't know anyone, but for crying out loud, book a room together!

I get that Caroline is not 100% being totally out yet, and that's fine. I also understand that Kate is her employee and that adds another level of weirdness to the situation.

I thought it was not cool for Kate to invite her sperm donor ex to the romanti weekend that Caroline had planned. She didn't know at the time that things would blow up the way they did, so yeah, great, it worked out for her in the end that she got to sleep with her ex that weekend in the hopes of getting pregnant, but it was just inviting him to meet them there in the first place that was weird to me. She could have introduced him to Caroline any other weekend but she insisted on doing it then.

Despite all my back and forth about the weekend, I'm glad that it resulted in Kate realizing that there was no real relationship between her and Caroline. I loved that she finally admitted that she would have done anything for Caroline but that Carolie wasn't all in with her.

Is there any situation where John doesn't make things worse? He is a whirlwind of destruction and drama. Okay, fine, the ONE time he was actually useful was when he told Raff he was taking him and Ellie to get the birth certificate sorted out immediately. I also loved that while John was making it all about himself again and telling Raff that his relationship with his kids had been compromised as a result of being married to a crazy manipulative lesbian, Raff pointed out that it was because he'd cheated on said lesbian with Judith. He wasn't even there when it happened and he still knows!

Heh, I can't wait to hear what Caroline has to say about Lawrence and Angus getting drunk while she was gone.

On 7/20/2014 at 9:31 PM, LittleIggy said:

What were those terms Gillian used to describe the school her dad and Maurice went to as opposed to where Celia went?

Gillian: I've known him all my life. He's always been there. Uncle Maurice. Me dad's known him since they were tiny. They were in infants together at the Board Knackers.
John: Sorry?
Gillian: There was the National School and The Board School. Not boarding school, just The Board School. So you were either a Nashbog or a Board Knacker. Me dad and Maurice were Board Knackers. Celia was a Nashbog. But Maurice and me dad in their little shorts during the war. Bless him, Maurice.

Edited December 5, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Valny]

ElectricBoogaloo-  are you just watching this show now... or just commenting now?
great comments, btw.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Celia: Here, get your washing done regularly. Girls like boys with clean underwear, don't let anyone tell you different.
Lawrence: Do I get a twencer, Gran?
Celia: Yeah, when you get in at Oxford.

Caroline: How're the wedding plans going?
Celia: Oh, we never seem to get any closer.
Caroline: Why?
Celia: Well, for one reason, he's gone and invited Ted, his brother.
Caroline: I didn't know Alan had a brother.
Celia: Yeah, Ted. He was two years above us.
Caroline: Right. So what's wrong with Ted coming?
Celia: He's in New Zealand. He's got five kids and they're all married and they've got 13 grandchildren between them, and, God knows why, but, because they've never met Alan, they all want to come over.
Caroline: Oh, gosh. So?
Celia: Well, we weren't planning on having that big a venue, really. But now it's all become a logistical nightmare.
Caroline: How?
Celia: Oh, well, it has.
Caroline: How?
Celia: One of them's a vegetarian.
Caroline: Well, that's not insurmountable, is it, as problems go?

Gillian: Calamity, is there no end to your shining wealth of talents?

Alan: What is there down at the wharf?
Gillian: Water? Ducks? Geese? Industrial waste?

Alan: How do you go on opening locks on your own?
Harry: Piece of piss, what you on about?
Alan: Hey, ladies present.
Celia: Oh, I've heard worse.
Alan: I meant baby.
Celia: He means when you get even older, you dozy old sod. How're you going to open locks when you're juggling with a Zimmer frame?
Harry: Nay, I'll shoot me sen before I get to that stage!

Celia: Oh, hell! Orange again. I hate sport and nature.
Alan: No, it's sport and leisure.
Celia: No, that's green.
Alan: No, that's science and nature. Is it?
Celia: Yeah. Oh, OK. Sherlock Holmes. The Beatles. Shakespeare.
Alan: Sorry?
Celia: The answer.
Alan: But I haven't asked the question yet.
Celia: No, I know, but it will be one of them. It always is, the answer. Or Manchester United.

Caroline: Mum, I've explained what happened. I won't go through it again, because you are choosing not to hear what's being said.

Celia: Why do folk ask a question, and then interrupt as soon as you embark on an answer?

Muriel: Instead of tea, can I tempt anyone to a gin and tonic?
[Alan gives her a thumbs up]

Gillian: If I drink too much, can you drive my Land Rover?
Caroline: What if I drink too much?
Gillian: We'll be up shit creek.

Judith: You don't know what you're talking about, you never did! It's all so easy, isn't it? It's all so cut and dried and black and white. That's why you've been so successful all your life! Because you've got all the bloody answers to bloody everything! "Just get rid of it, Judith. You're killing it, anyway." Can you hear what you sound like? Can you hear how nasty it is? Women create, men destroy. Fact. Women create life, men shoot people. Name me one war started by a woman.
John: The Falklands.
Judith: Yeah! Exactly! That's the one. Out of how many? Since time began? One war. And don't say the Trojan War, because that's bollocks. Pollux and Castor, they started it. They invaded Athens. Helen was just an excuse to get the guns out.
John: Boadicea, Joan of Arc, Elizabeth I, Cleopatra, Queen Anne, Golda Meir, Indira Ghandi, Catherine the Great, Queen Isabella of Spain - she was a bitch. Cixi.
Judith: You made that last one up.
John: You don't know what you're talking about! Let's face it. Gun-boat diplomacy! Who started that? Queen Victoria!

Edited December 6, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On a selfish note, I'm sad that Caroline is selling the house because I loooooove looking at their beautiful home every episode.

Ha, I laughed my ass off when John said Judith was pregnant and didn't want to take Lawrence for the weekend. He just expected Caroline to put her foot down and make Lawrence stay with her. She did try a little bit, but I loved that she just put in the minimal effort and then left it to John. His pleading faces made me roll my eyes. If you're going to flake

The irony of Celia asking Alan not to say anything to Muriel about Kenneth cheating on her was not lost on me. It's okay for her to go blabbing about other people's abortions and it's okay for her to tell Muriel that John was cheating on Caroline, but she doesn't want anyone telling her sister that Kenneth sucked.

Drunk Caroline and Gillian was the best!

Poor Lawrence - he finally realizes that his mom is the dependable one and then she doesn't call him back.

You know, seeing Gillian tell both John and Caroline about Eddie makes me wonder how she managed to keep it a secret until now.

On 7/27/2014 at 8:58 PM, LittleIggy said:

At least we now know that Eddie wasn't just a lad who liked to drink too much. He sounds as if he was a rotter. Gillian must have hidden the abuse from Alan. I don't see why Caroline would go to the police.

We knew bits and pieces, like that he would shoplift and go joyriding and get Gillian to do it with him. I'm 99% sure that in a previous episode, Alan told Celia that Eddie used to knock Gillian around.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Muriel: Had you thought about - well, not a hen-party, Celia - I know that's not very you - but something the evening before?
Celia: Like?
Muriel: Well, you can't spend the evening together, can you, beforehand? Celia: Can't we?
Alan: Why not? We did first time we got wed.
Muriel: Well, it's not what you do.
Celia: Well me and Alan don't always play by the rules, do we, Alan?
Alan: Not if we can help it. We like to think laterally. Outside the box.
Celia: We're forever pushing the envelope.
Muriel: So you'll be stopping in, then? Together?
Celia: Do you fancy a stag night, Alan? Like in a lap-dancing club, with strippers and so on?
Alan: Yeah. Do you?
Celia: I could do. With the girls. That what you had in mind, Muriel?
Muriel: It's not - no, I said
Alan: Do they do lap-dancing with fellas?
Celia: Probably. Is that the same as polo dancing?
Alan: No, it isn't.
Muriel: Do you mean pole dancing?
Celia: Ooh! How do you know?
Muriel: No, that's not what I had in mind. I don't think you'd-
Alan: Google it.
Celia: A sleazy night in Amsterdam! What more could a woman ask for?
Muriel: I did start off the conversation by saying-
Celia: Making assumptions.
Muriel: I don't mind going to Amsterdam for the art galleries if that's more-
Celia: Oh, bugger the art galleries! They'll be full of them daubs by that twerp who chopped his ear off. This is my hen night we're talking about. What you thinking, Alan?
Alan: Personally, well, I've been there, fallen over, got the t-shirt, but if you fancy it, Amsterdam?
Celia: Have you?
Alan: Yeah. More than once.
Celia: So you'd recommend it?

Celia: Do you think John would give me away?
Caroline: John?
Celia: Well, who else can I ask?
Caroline: Do you need giving away?
Celia: Well, it's traditional.
Caroline: Mum, you don't like John. You've never liked him. I'm surprised you're even thinking about inviting him. You'll be inviting Judith next.
Celia: I bloody won't. Well, Harry's doing a speech about Alan, and traditionally, before that, the father of the bride does one about the bride, and, you see, for all his being a waste of space, I thought that might be something John'd be quite good at, making a speech.
Caroline: Wouldn't you be worried he might say things you'd rather people didn't hear?
Celia: Like what?
Caroline: Well, there was that time you slapped him across the face over at the farm.
Celia: Oh, yeah.
Caroline: And then that Christmas when you let all his tyres down, when you both got drunk together on barley wine and he called you a rancid old bag.
Celia: Oh, I don't think he ever knew that was me.
Caroline: Oh! He did.

Harry: I shan't tell them about that time you fell down that man-hole in the snow when you'd been on the razzle.
Alan: It should've been better lit.
Harry: Then that time you nearly choked to death laughing when he snapped all the tendons in his ankle falling off that jetty in Porta Pollenca.
Alan: That was comical.
Harry: Or that time you drove t'wrong way round Bull Green roundabout in Halifax when you came back from the Continent.
Alan: That were quite exciting!
Harry: Or that time you got caught shagging that sheep.
Alan: Hey, it's not funny. Our Gillian once caught a lad-
Harry: I know, she told me.
Alan: Funny thing was he kept coming back to see the same sheep.

Harry: Is this what you want? What you really, really want?
Alan: You're going to get sacked if you carry on like that.
Harry: I'd have made a good Spice Girl, me. Manly Spice.
Alan: Old Spice.

Harry: She's got personality, Gillian. And balls. I like a woman with balls.

Harry: I've always known Alan, I can't remember not knowing Alan. One of my earliest memories of Alan was down Elland Wood. We were about four years old and we'd just found a pond full of frog  spawn, and he wanted to take it home, like you do, only we'd nowt to carry it in. So he said, "Harry, you take your wellies off, they'll do," and course, like a dozy bugger, I did. He had his wellies on as well, I hasten to add, but for some reason in his head mine were the only ones with "frog spawn container" written on 'em. Then at home, me mother'd be saying, "How come Alan's always so tidy and you're always such a mucky mess?"

Alan: I told you it'd be embarrassing.
Raff: Yup, well, maybe next time I'll listen.

Caroline: Is this like, what? Forever?
Kate: Well, to quote Prince, forever's a mighty long time.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Gotta love that Lawrence called William who told him to call Kate.

Amazing what a fresh coat of paint can do! Harry's boat looked so nice after that.

Ted pretending he couldn't come and then surprise Alan was such a brotherly prank.

Ha, I've never heard The Entertainer used for the recessional music at a wedding before.

I loved how happy William looked when he saw Caroline and Kate! He is such a sweet and supportive son. I laughed when Caroline enthusiastically welcomed him home for Christmas and then he told her that he'd brought his laundry home.

I love Caroline and Gillian's growing friendship. They really are becoming sisters.

Alan's dance with Raff, William, Lawrence, and Angus was so cute!

I thought Celia's sour face and grousing were more about Kate's presence as Lesbian Girlfriend than about the PDA (although I'm sure she wasn't a fan of that either). She seemed to be fine with Kate as a person (I remember the scene where they were talking in the kitchen earlier in the season) and as a pianist for her wedding, so it seems that her issue with Kate is only as her daughter's girlfriend, which just goes to show that despite the complete 180 she did in the S1 finale, she's still not really okay with Caroline being gay.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 12/5/2017 at 0:24 PM, Valny said:

ElectricBoogaloo-  are you just watching this show now... or just commenting now?
great comments, btw.

I just started watching the show a few weeks ago. I had to take a break between S1 and S2 when I realized that I'd never finished watching The Crown and I had to catch up before that came back!