S02.E04: Point of Departure

[Bort]

Quote

Howard Prime, Quayle and Clare must unite against a common enemy. Emily Prime turns her investigation towards her other. Yanek probes Howard's past.

Airdate: Sunday, December 30, 2018

[mxc90]

Did Emily's mother quickly forget about girl's weekend? I guess she's an agent/spy. Who was the man she was with? Maybe a young Pope?

Mira is responsible for the epidemic and deaths of millions  Clare's parents?! That's one cold woman. Now Clare knows her mentor killed her parents and the lies she was fed at the school.

Howard had to know his friends were in danger by giving Baldwin a knife and not letting them in on plan for Lambert. He is more responsible for their deaths than Baldwin.

The blood gushing from the guy was gruesome.

What is Lambert's plan by letting himself get caught? I doubt Emily talked him in to surrendering to Naya.

Why is Quayle surprised to see another Lambert? Unless alpha was supposed to be dead years ago. I was hoping Emily said Lambert's name to Howard.

If Osman was following Ian with case, why didn't he take it earlier? Management was pretty slow tracking the case. I will assume Osman left the tracking device at Mortiz' place.

All is forgiven between Baldwin and Clare?

Howard's plan to show Yaneck he is not going to fight like Prime but try to bond with Marcel. How long will that last?

Emily don't pay the late fee! Use the excuse: "I was hit by a car". 

Edited December 30, 2018 by mxc90

[shapeshifter]

The title, "Point of Departure," is very descriptive of the episode's theme, which is mostly at what point did the counterparts personalities diverge or "depart," except for the two Claudes, for whom "till death do us part" was never more true. I guess the sex scenes from last week served to make clear their symbiotic or codependent [or put better adjective here] relationship.

 

So I guess we should use "kind" rather than "meek" to differentiate the 2 Howards and Quayles; meek Peter Q. says: "It's not easy being the kind one, Howard. You know, nice guys always finish last." 

In this show, at least "finishing last" is better than the alternative.

And un-Kind Howard's unkindness ultimately gave him away to head-trauma Emily. Plus he doesn't cook.

 

3 hours ago, mxc90 said:

The blood gushing from the guy was gruesome

Yes, but served to slightly redeem Baldwin the Assassin when she apologized and put him out of his misery.

 

 

3 hours ago, mxc90 said:

I was hoping Emily said Lambert's name to Howard

Really? Because unKind Howard would kill him? I'm not sure he's not more valuable alive. Especially with his Other gone.

 

 

3 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Howard's plan to show Yaneck he is not going to fight like Prime but try to bond with Marcel. How long will that last

Perhaps until he bonds? Of course, IRL, 2 traumatic brain injuries in such close succession would likely be the end of Kind Howard, or at least he'd have to be protected to be of any use. But on TV and film, TBIs are just shaken off—even Emily seems on the road to a full recovery without any ongoing therapy.

Anyway, Yaneck thinks the two Howards differ because of Daddy issues, whereas I think we were supposed to take away that equally important were the Emilys—although evidentally both Emilys had the same Mommy trauma, or, at least, they had the same hiding place.

Edited December 30, 2018 by shapeshifter

[Quilt Fairy]

4 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Mira is responsible for the epidemic and deaths of millions?! That's one cold woman. Now Clare knows her mentor killed her parents and the lies she was fed at the school.

I didn't get that Mira is responsible for the epidemic, only that Clare Prime was a good candidate for her school because of her diplomat father, so Mira poisoned the parents in order to get Clare and covered up the murder as flu deaths.

I'm beginning to wonder who's who between the two Lamberts.  I know we're supposed to think that Baldwin killed Lambert Prime and Emily turned in Lambert Alpha, but if they've been working closely together for some time, couldn't they have substituted for one another?  And frankly, if the Prime world is keeping close track of important personnel on Alpha, why isn't Alpha keeping better track of important personnel on Prime?  Particularly the other of the Prime ambassador to Alpha. 

And Ian, supposedly smart spy guy?  You find a hidden case whose owner was brutally tortured and killed, you find out that it's the Management computer, and you just leave it with your rogue IT guy?  Seriously?

As an FYI to later posters, in case you've forgotten or never knew, Starz has the new episode available On Demand early Sunday before the episode airs Sunday night. 

Edited December 30, 2018 by Quilt Fairy

[mxc90]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Really? Because unKind Howard would kill him? I'm not sure he's not more valuable alive. Especially with his Other gone.

I wasn't thinking that far. I wanted to see his reaction to his counter wife knowing him and he thought he was dead. 

 

49 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I didn't get that Mira is responsible for the epidemic, only that Clare Prime was a good candidate for her school because of her diplomat father, so Mira poisoned the parents in order to get Clare and covered up the murder as flu deaths.

Yes. Thanks for the correction. 

Please open the door. I want to see the Clare vs Mira match!

[Notwisconsin]

4 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

As an FYI to later posters, in case you've forgotten or never knew, Starz has the new episode available On Demand early Sunday before the episode airs Sunday night. 

I just found this out by accident. It's finally getting good. It seems the halfway point's going to be really violent.

[Coxfires]

Oh I really really love this show so much!

Intersting introspection in the past of both Emily and Howard. We never knew about Howard's father, but it seems that Prime and Alpha were already different before Emily's betrayal 

So Emily was passing info to Lambert, uh? Is she discovering that she was an antagonist little by little? Still loving O. Williams. Last year was JK's season (and he still is awesome) but for now she is the one who shines. And A!Emily seems to be onto P!Howard 

Another one is Harry Lloyd. Alpha Quayle is a smug incompetent but Prime Quayle is...a lost kid (and deep down who Alpha tries to pretend he is not). Yanek said they "took him in so young", I wonder why? I thought Quayle got to director of strategy because of his relation with Clare, but was it planned by management to put him in his position for that long that they locked his Prime so early ? We know nothing about him besides his position and Clare.

Clare learning the truth about her parents (although why keep this veeeery compromising recording?) That is going to put a whole new spin on her loyalty to "her" side. All these years of training, killing your other, fake marriage all for a revenge on the wrong people? OUCH 

Baldwin... still can't care for her character, she needs something To make her more intersting

How did anyone know so fast about Ian and the case? Not really careful here, mate.

So we are semi rid of Lambert...the remaining one is up to something but that look on Quayle's face...you thought you crawled your way out of the deep shit you were in just to take a deeper dive!

[shapeshifter]

On December 30, 2018 at 8:09 PM, Coxfires said:

Clare learning the truth about her parents (although why keep this veeeery compromising recording?) That is going to put a whole new spin on her loyalty to "her" side. All these years of training, killing your other, fake marriage all for a revenge on the wrong people? OUCH 

It will be interesting to see Clare's story arc as she changes sides; I trust it will be thoughtfully done.

 

 

On December 30, 2018 at 8:09 PM, Coxfires said:

Baldwin... still can't care for her character, she needs something To make her more intersting

Last season I just wanted Baldwin gone. Now I'd be satisfied with her as the plot device she is (serves to eliminate superfluous villians)  so long as they don't spend too much time on her fight scenes.

Edited January 2, 2019 by shapeshifter
Spelling

[scrb]

I guess they’re going to introduce red shirts and then off them in a couple of episodes.

But they keep incompetents like Quayle around.

Looks like Fancher isn’t com8ng back?  Nobody for Quayle to answer to.

[Coxfires]

48 minutes ago, scrb said:

But they keep incompetents like Quayle around

I highly doubt Management doesn't know Quayle is a major screw up. Him being where he is is 100% intentional, he even recognized it with Aldrich. Now in terms of plot, he is far more involved than the Red Shirts and his arc is clearly discovering what he is made of when his luck runs out.

[Haleth]

Why the hell didn't Redshirt just shoot Baldwin?  Do they never learn?  Shoot first, then talk. 

[Bort]

Probably still wanted the leverage. Lambert was already dead and a dead Baldwin would've been no good to them.

I definitely would've been fine if Baldwin had stayed gone, Mira is a much more effective villain, but at least they're utilizing her better this season. She's actually part of the storyline instead of languishing off in her own little world most of the time.

[scrb]

Baldwin might be the one character that viewers and Marks disagree on as to whether she’s worthy of screen time.

Looks like she’s pretty much a regular though I don’t know if she’s listed in the opening credits.

Edited January 2, 2019 by scrb

[shapeshifter]

34 minutes ago, scrb said:

Baldwin might be the one character that viewers and Marks disagree on as to whether she’s worthy of screen time.

Looks like she’s pretty much a regular though I don’t know if she’s listed in the opening credits.

90% sure I noticed she was. I think about 4th.

[Bort]

The opening credits vary as to who's in the episode that week. If she's in the episode, she's in the credits. Ditto for any of the other characters that aren't always in every episode.

[Mardo2044]

On 12/30/2018 at 1:02 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

And Ian, supposedly smart spy guy?  You find a hidden case whose owner was brutally tortured and killed, you find out that it's the Management computer, and you just leave it with your rogue IT guy?

I think the East Berliners (prime if you will) have learned to keep their circle of people they trust VERY small.  We don't know why his motives might diverge from Emily Prime, but I think they may to some extent.  Obviously BIG mistake.

[tennisgurl]

Real classy, Emily's mom. Take your daughter on a vacation as an excuse to cheat on your husband. At least, thats what I assume was going on, who knows with this show?

Of course all of Howard Primes pals all get killed by Baldwin. Really, could he possibly be surprised? That neck stabbing was nasty, thank God Baldwin put him out of his (and our) misery. I have no idea which Lambert was actually killed, for all we knew, they took turns being the same Lambert, but they seem to both know everything. It reminds me of a creepy story I heard of these twins who regularly lived each others lives, answered to both of their names, and basically ended up living in their own world, with basically one identity split between the two of them.

I wonder what Emily was really up to meeting with Lambert, I dont think she was actually working with Mira and company. But she clearly had some larger plan, or was maybe playing several sides against each other, for some greater goal, or to smoke Mira out. Or something else, she really was an enigma to everyone, even herself!

I feel like an idiot for not realizing right away that Mira killed Claire's parents to get their diplomats daughter. So now Claire knows she lost her parents to the very people she gave her whole life to, who broke her knees, brainwashed her, got her into a fake marriage, and forced her to give up her very self. Oh man, Claire vs. Mira is gonna be EPIC when they meet up again. 

Poor Peter Prime is so childlike and seemingly not close to all there mentally, it makes we wonder how long they've had him at this place. It sort of feels like he was raised there, willingly giving up memories for years. Maybe Peter Alpha is from a rich or powerful family, and they always wanted information on him? Really, if he has been there since he was young, like the doctor said, it makes his upbringing a bit similar to Claire Primes.

[shapeshifter]

Great, thoughtful post, @tennisgurl! Based on your screen name, maybe you have special insights for this series from having watched a lot of tennis balls getting hit back and forth across a net? Heh.

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I have no idea which Lambert was actually killed, for all we knew, they took turns being the same Lambert, but they seem to both know everything. It reminds me of a creepy story I heard of these twins who regularly lived each others lives, answered to both of their names, and basically ended up living in their own world, with basically one identity split between the two of them. . . .

Yes, no idea which Lambert was which and /or if we will ever know or if it matters beyond it not mattering. And now I wonder if Counterpart creator Justin Marks at some point Googled: short story twins living one shared life 

Just skimming the search results (which seemed all nonfictional even when I added the word fiction to the search) seems to support the (perhaps erroneous) idea that variations between twins separated at birth are exceptional rather than the norm.

 

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Claire knows she lost her parents to the very people she gave her whole life to, who broke her knees, brainwashed her, got her into a fake marriage, and forced her to give up her very self. Oh man, Claire vs. Mira is gonna be EPIC when they meet up again

Having had an emergency Cesarean birth without anaesthesia, I have often considered the psychological difference between unintended extreme pain and intended (torture). I wonder to what degree we will see Claire grapple with this particular aspect of her "training." At least she might question whether having to have her legs broken without anaesthesia was really to make her more like her counterpart, or if it was to break her spirit.

 

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Maybe Peter Alpha is from a rich or powerful family, and they always wanted information on him? Really, if he has been there since he was young, like the doctor said, it makes his upbringing a bit similar to Claire Primes

There is still (barely) enough psychological room for Peter and Claire to bond in some way over this revelation, but probably not romantically.

Edited January 4, 2019 by shapeshifter

[tennisgurl]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Based on your screen name, maybe you have special insights for this series from having watched a lot of tennis balls getting hit back and forth across a net? Heh.

So many tennis balls going back and fourth! The tennis ball here is clearly Emily Prime :) I love hearing your insights as well!

Edited January 4, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Mardo2044]

Not critical to the show but it has been bothering me.  A real librarian might mention, "glad to see you enjoy this book" but would never divulge information about another lender.  I know they needed to explain this tool of communication, but it would have been more believable to show the librarian leaving for the restroom and a volunteer working circulation.  I just had to get that off my mind as I am studying to be a librarian!  :)  Librarians stand up for the right to read varied sources and uphold patron privacy.   https://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/31/nyregion/31library.html

[AudienceofOne]

Oh damn this episode was really good and now I've remembered there's only 6 more left and it's been cancelled. Why why why?