12 Monkeys - General Discussion

[David T. Cole]

This topic replaces the old forum for this show which has been vaulted here:
http://forums.previously.tv/forum/1061-12-monkeys-v/

[Chaos Theory]

Jumping this up because it is truly a sin that people have stopped talking about this truly inspired show.  It was always one of the best time travel shows With a fun cast and the final season was awesome.   I wish more people had watched it because it often gets forgotten and it should be put on top ten lists for best finales.   Cole and Cassie were a great OTP and they worked throughout the show.  Jennifer Goines was inspired.  I loved Dr. Jones and the friendship between Cole and Ramsey was really well done.  This definitely is an underrated underwatched show.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I just started watching S3 of Stranger Things and in the first scene of the season premiere, the scientists fired up something with a giant blue laser and I thought OMG, it's the machine from 12 Monkeys!

[angora]

OMG, no lie. When I saw that thing, the first thought that ran through my head was, "Looks like somebody raided a Syfy warehouse!" Although, I have to say - Jones makes many mistakes and does all kinds of ethically-shady science stuff, but she wouldn't be nearly as stupid as those guys.

[Chaos Theory]

Ethically shady sciencey stuff is kinda a trademark of science fiction though.  Brings to mind another favorite show of mine Fringe.  Another show always on the bubble that should have gotten a lot more viewers because it was awesome but it dealt heavily with ethically questionable science.  

Still I really loved Jones because she cane from the exact same vein as Walter Bishop.  Every bad thing that ever happened started with one horrible but understandable desperate decision.

[angora]

Oh, absolutely, there's stuff like that in every genre show - I was just going for the "Jones would never be that stupid," re: the Stranger Things scientists with their NotSplinter machine.

Yeah, it's fascinating to me to see just how deep Jones's devotion to her ultimate aim goes. She's so focused on changing the past that she'll do horrible things to achieve it (like sacrificing all the failed subjects who came before Cole,) but then she tells herself it's okay because, once she succeeds, all those horrible things will have been erased (also, she'll have saved the world.) Only problem is, if she doesn't succeed, then those horrible things will a) exist forever and b) have been for nothing, so then she does even more horrible things in her desperation to make sure it gets undone.

I really like that, that the moral questions of this time travel show go deeper than just "can I change this or not?" It's something all the characters grapple with at some point or another

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Emily Hampshire at the Emmys with the Schitts Creek cast:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

All the coronavirus panic has been reminding of Cassie’s lectures about pandemics during S1 of 12 Monkeys. 

[Grammaeryn]

I’m doing a grand rewatch as a kind of exposure therapy. When New Rochelle was quarantined, I thought of the West 7. 

[Grammaeryn]

Holy chills Batman - I’m on season 2 Deacon grew up in New Rochelle! We need to find the Primary ASAP.

[Trini]

Anyone know if this is streaming anywhere? I never got to finish the series, and I'm trying to see if I can now.

[justmehere]

47 minutes ago, Trini said:

Anyone know if this is streaming anywhere? I never got to finish the series, and I'm trying to see if I can now.

It's on Hulu.

[Trini]

Thanks!

[lavenderblue]

I just finished this series tonight and the last two months have been me reading the old episode threads on the archived forum and not being able to discuss theories with ANYONE because it was all in the past and anywhere new risked spoilers....felt an extreme relatability with the characters through this time gulf. 

[kickingnames]

On 4/12/2021 at 3:07 AM, lavenderblue said:

I just finished this series tonight and the last two months have been me reading the old episode threads on the archived forum and not being able to discuss theories with ANYONE because it was all in the past and anywhere new risked spoilers....felt an extreme relatability with the characters through this time gulf. 

I’m about to do the same. Watched for the first time last year, just finished a rewatch — and realized I have NO ONE to talk to about. It’s hard for me to explain to people I know, who aren’t into time-travel stories like I am, what a wonderfully crafted show this was. Such a heartwarming, well-deserved ending… I just really, really like this show.

[Bort]

Just dropping this in here:

Hee hee!

[kickingnames]

Adding this in, because this show still deserves all the kudos it gets:

TV's Best Series Finales of All Time, Ranked: Cheers, Six Feet Under, Friends, ER, 12 Monkeys, S.H.I.E.L.D. and More
By Team TVLine / August 12 2021

Quote

17. 12 Monkeys

However difficult it is to craft a satisfying series finale, take that and triple it for a time-traveling genre show full of complicated mythology. And yet, the Syfy series completely nailed the landing with a conclusion that felt carefully crafted and completely earned. When the final minutes echoed the pilot’s opening scene, we were left a bit breathless at how beautifully the story came full circle.

 

[lavenderblue]

I was today years old when I learned that Aaron Stanford played Ho-Ho the Jai Alai promoter in S3 of Mad Men and what an absolutely flabbergastingly bizarre crossover between two of my favorite television shows. This will add some time travel piquancy to any future rewatches of Mad Men, though.

[angora]

Lol, that's going to be my new headcanon whenever I see Aaron Stanford in a period piece--clearly, this is just Cole time traveling.

[lavenderblue]

I'm just about to finish my third run-through of the series and I have to confess there is one plot point that I still haven't gotten a handle on, and I don't know if it's addressed and I've missed it each time like an idiot, or if it actually is sort of a minor plot hole: where did the Messengers actually come from, genetically?

We're first introduced to them as babies in 2015 that Olivia has some sort of oversight of. They're then adults in 2043/4, and one of course becomes mother to both Olivia and Tall Man almost a century earlier. But who were the Messengers' parents?  There's no indication that in the show's universe of the 2010s, genetic engineering has advanced such that humans are being created in any ways other than those available in our own world, and even Olivia, as engineered as she was, still had parental donors (and had to become pregnant by a random dude in the '70s to produce her own child). Yet these babies just sort of show up and then become critical to the plot and it feels like a loose thread somewhere unless, as noted, I've totally missed something.

Since I only first watched the show in 2021 I never interacted with any of the podcasts or anything, so if this actually did get addressed by the showrunners at some point would be happy to know!

[Bort]

17 hours ago, lavenderblue said:

where did the Messengers actually come from, genetically?

We're first introduced to them as babies in 2015 that Olivia has some sort of oversight of. They're then adults in 2043/4, and one of course becomes mother to both Olivia and Tall Man almost a century earlier. But who were the Messengers' parents?

It’s been awhile since I’ve watched it but from what I remember, the messengers were harvested from Olivia. They didn’t really go into excruciating detail about it.

[lavenderblue]

Thanks! That was about the most I could deduce and when every other detail is so filled out, it drove me crazy that this one thing was sort of left like "uh it happened, anyway, moving on." 

[tv echo]

Cast reunion at Creation Entertainment's STLV (Trek to Vegas) con this past weekend...

[kickingnames]

I was just thinking yesterday how much I miss this show….