Parenthood - General Discussion

[Guest]

This topic replaces the old Parenthood forum which has been vaulted at the location below:
http://forums.previously.tv/forum/237-parenthood/

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Peter Krause and Lauren Graham at the Golden Globes:

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[caitmcg]

Aw, I'm glad to see they're still together.

[ApathyMonger]

Sarah Ramos was interviewed on this week's Busy Phillips podcast, and revealed that it wasn't her decision to leave the show. She was told her contract wasn't being picked up, and they used "she's going to college" as an excuse for the press. https://podcastaddict.com/episode/117414441 (About 1hr 27mins in)

[Blergh]

On 1/10/2021 at 10:06 AM, ApathyMonger said:

Sarah Ramos was interviewed on this week's Busy Phillips podcast, and revealed that it wasn't her decision to leave the show. She was told her contract wasn't being picked up, and they used "she's going to college" as an excuse for the press. https://podcastaddict.com/episode/117414441 (About 1hr 27mins in)

Wait! They thought that MAX and his tantrums, whims and rants constantly being enabled and catered to was more entertaining/appealing than Haddie?! No wonder the show didn't last    long after Miss Ramos was no longer a regular! 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Blergh

[Marley]

I’ve recently been rewatching this show cause there’s nothing else on and I’m just reminded how much I hate Max. He is a serial killer in the making. Kristina would prob make excuses for him too and say it was the victims fault Max stabbed them to death. I know he has Aspergers but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t teach him manners. I just saw the episode where he barges in to use the printer while Sarah is trying to do a work project. Somehow Kristina and Adam make everything Sarah’s fault when their kid is the asshole and they think the world should bend to his every whim. Like how is he going to be an adult.

I hate Kristina too lol.

Anyways rant over lol.

[Blergh]

16 hours ago, Marley said:

I’ve recently been rewatching this show cause there’s nothing else on and I’m just reminded how much I hate Max. He is a serial killer in the making. Kristina would prob make excuses for him too and say it was the victims fault Max stabbed them to death. I know he has Aspergers but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t teach him manners. I just saw the episode where he barges in to use the printer while Sarah is trying to do a work project. Somehow Kristina and Adam make everything Sarah’s fault when their kid is the asshole and they think the world should bend to his every whim. Like how is he going to be an adult.

I hate Kristina too lol.

Anyways rant over lol.

Oh, I totally agree with you how infuriating it was how Adam and, especially, Kristina seemed to think that there was nothing more they could have done to have attempted to teach Max to be the best person he COULD have been even factoring the high-functioning autistic diagnosis. Instead, they just threw up their hands and expected everyone else (including their older daughter and possibly their baby [though this was unclear]) to cater to his every whim- and rant. And despite all the show's claims to the contrary, it seemed  to me that Max knew EXACTLY what he was doing- and he knew that his rants and tantrums WORKED. It was ironic that the ONE time anyone attempted to better him wasn't a parent, a teacher or an 'expert' but his problematic 'street smart' cousin Amber who simply told him was capable of at least ACTING as though he had empathy for others  and this would be to his own benefit (though this didn't last because no one else followed up on it). 

Of course, it's possible he may have learned this kind of manipulative behavior from Kristina who NEVER got called on her worst stunts (e.g. guilting the one-shot mother of a classmate to cough up an invite Max to a party that the host classmate didn't want him to be there for and Max himself had expressed no interest in attending- AFTER unsuccessfully confronting the classmate in her classroom about not inviting Max) but was constantly overpraised and sanctified to the gills with every pie-in-the-sky whim ( an unsuccessful mayor's race, starting a school for Max that gave him carte blanche to bully all other pupils,etc) catered to regardless of how limited and strained the family income was supposed to be! UGH! 

 

As I've said elsewhere, what's sad is that this show COULD have depicted  growth and positive changes in Max (and done its best to encourage viewers to believe that high functioning autistics could become vital and productive family and society members). However, instead it was just one long pity party for Adam and Kristina with them doing nothing but catering to Max AND ruining Haddie's childhood and teenhood in the process (and was it any wonder that she insisted on going to college on the opposite US coast to put as much distance as possible from all that).

Edited August 13, 2021 by Blergh

[ifionlyknew]

1 hour ago, Blergh said:

Oh, I totally agree with you how infuriating it was how Adam and, especially, Kristina seemed to think that there was nothing more they could have done to have attempted to teach Max to be the best person he COULD have been even factoring the high-functioning autistic diagnosis. Instead, they just threw up their hands and expected everyone else (including their older daughter and possibly their baby [though this was unclear]) to cater to his every whim- and rant. And despite all the show's claims to the contrary, it seemed  to me that Max knew EXACTLY what he was doing- and he knew that his rants and tantrums WORKED. It was ironic that the ONE time anyone attempted to better him wasn't a parent, a teacher or an 'expert' but his problematic cousin Amber who simply told him was capable of at least ACTING as though he had empathy for others (though this didn't last because no one else followed up on it). 

Of course, it's possible he may have learned this kind of manipulative behavior from Kristina who NEVER got called on her worst stunts (e.g. guilting the one-shot mother of a classmate to cough up invite Max to a party that the classmate didn't want him to be there and Max himself had expressed no interest in attending- AFTER unsuccessfully confronting the classmate in her classroom about not inviting Max) but constantly overpraised and sanctified to the gills with every pie-in-the-sky whim ( an unsuccessful mayor's race, starting a school for Max that gave him carte blanche to bully all other pupils,etc) catered to regardless of how limited and strained the family income was supposed to be! UGH! 

 

As I've said elsewhere, what's sad is that this show COULD have shown growth and positive changes in Max (and done its best to encourage viewers to believe that high functioning autistics could become vital and productive family and society members) but instead it was just one long pity party for Adam and Kristina with them doing nothing but catering to Max AND ruining Haddie's childhood and teenhood in the process (and was it any wonder that she insisted on going to college on the opposite US coast to put as much distance as possible from all that).

I have done rewatches of just about everything but everything you said is why I have not watched Parenthood again.  The show had so many actors I liked but I simply cannot put myself through that again.

[Marley]

I made it to season 6 but they are getting to the part where Max likes and harasses the Dylan girl and I don’t think I can handle watching that shit again.

[Blergh]

Even the latter part of Season Five in which Drew gets cheated on by his self-justifying classmate and expresses his woes to Amber who- encourages them both to get high f to  'cope'  even with him  missing classes for weeks on end- and no one ever calls out Amber or Drew for having done this (nor does Drew ever confront Amber over this even after he wakes up from his stupor). ALL that happens is that, after they show up to an extended family dinner high, is that the aunts and uncles  cattily dump on SARAH for them being her offspring!  Oh, and let's not forget not only Amber's previous near-death experience with drugs but also her righteous anger at her estranged male DNA Donor Seth for having put their family through bad times via his own addictions but even HE had never urged either of his kids to get high.

I hated that storyline! 

[Eeksquire]

When Parenthood was good, it was very very good, but that was rare. Any time I think of the show, I remember the scene when Julia has returned to work at her high-powered lawyer gig and they are fostering and Julia is trying to make toast and it's burning and she's missed a deadline and she just... collapses in the kitchen with a panic attack.  Man, I felt that so hard.

But... other things, not so much, Max's whole arc over the series (with the possible exception of his interactions with Amber and/or Ray Romano), hard pass.

[Blergh]

1 hour ago, Eeksquire said:

When Parenthood was good, it was very very good, but that was rare. Any time I think of the show, I remember the scene when Julia has returned to work at her high-powered lawyer gig and they are fostering and Julia is trying to make toast and it's burning and she's missed a deadline and she just... collapses in the kitchen with a panic attack.  Man, I felt that so hard.

But... other things, not so much, Max's whole arc over the series (with the possible exception of his interactions with Amber and/or Ray Romano), hard pass.

I agree that there were times the show was excellent  and I thought it was intriguing the initial arc of having Julia's husband being the stay-at-home parent to their daughter while she worked AND him at times chomping at the bit while being the only stay-at-home dad in a neighborhood of stay-at-home moms who weren't entirely above trying to flirt with him. I also initially liked Crosby evolving from a self-important drifter flake to becoming a (somewhat) responsible husband and father of two after his son and son's mother came back into his life (and yes, I thought it interesting addressing the issue of having folks of different ethnicities in the same family). 

What was frustrating about Max's arc was, with some of the more thought-out plots and twists, I was hoping that they'd show at least SOME growth on his part (and some actual awareness on his parents')  even if there may have been some backsliding here and there instead of just the whole 'we MUST forever cater to his tantrums and we demand the whole world starting with our extended family to do the same and anyone who dares to dissent from our POV  is a bad person we must force to conform to our thinking' arc. 

Yeah,even   Amber backsliding (with no attempts of anyone to address it or herself acknowledging) wound up being less frustrating than the Max arc.

I also liked Ray Romano's arc (even though it got bogged down with his incredibly annoying ex and their blah preteen daughter who got transformed over a summer to a majorly annoying teen). And thought his character actually had had more chance for independence and to make his own way due to NOT being tagged at a young age instead of Max's deal of getting tagged and forever using said tag as a shield and weapon against others (with parental approval). 

[Marley]

I really liked Joel and Julia until they did the whole separation thing that made no sense. Especially since in season 1 he didn’t tell her about a mom kissing him for months. I just think Joel is hot too lol. 

This will sound bad but I kind of wish they killed off Kristina. It would’ve been interesting for storylines. Plus she was an insufferable bitch lol.

Still can’t get over their stupid school. Pretty horrible them being in charge with their horrible son running around being an asshole and him not even being called on it.

Another thing I hated was Natalie and Drew. I actually started hating Drew once he was in college. I also wanted him to cut his damn hair! Lol.

It sounds like I hate the show but I did really like it but it just could’ve been so much better.

[ifionlyknew]

13 hours ago, Blergh said:

What was frustrating about Max's arc was, with some of the more thought-out plots and twists, I was hoping that they'd show at least SOME growth on his part (and some actual awareness on his parents')  even if there may have been some backsliding here and there instead of just the whole 'we MUST forever cater to his tantrums and we demand the whole world starting with our extended family to do the same and anyone who dares to dissent from our POV  is a bad person we must force to conform to our thinking' arc. 

My nephew has autism and I asked my brother once how he could tell when his son was doing something that was autism related or just being a brat.  He said they could tell the difference and yes his son did get punished.   Adam and Kristina could have learned something from my brother.

13 hours ago, Blergh said:

. I also initially liked Crosby evolving from a self-important drifter flake to becoming a (somewhat) responsible husband and father of two after his son and son's mother came back into his life (and yes, I thought it interesting addressing the issue of having folks of different ethnicities in the same family). 

I didn't like the Crosby character but that might have been colored by my not liking Dax Shepherd.

[Blergh]

15 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

My nephew has autism and I asked my brother once how he could tell when his son was doing something that was autism related or just being a brat.  He said they could tell the difference and yes his son did get punished.   Adam and Kristina could have learned something from my brother.

I didn't like the Crosby character but that might have been colored by my not liking Dax Shepherd.

Interesting about your nephew and brother's parental insights re what's the challenging condition and what's deliberate brattiness. 

Crosby was tough to like but I liked that he was  willing to become more responsible after his son came back into life (and then would marry the son's mother and have another child with her). FWIW, I  liked Mr. Shepherd on this show more than I do now mainly because he wasn't so TMI re letting it all hang out back then.

[Bastet]

I like a lot of things about the film, but never had any interest in watching this show when it was on.  Seeing it pop up on Roku, for some reason this time around I thought, why not.  I've watched the first eight episodes, and generally liked them, but I cannot take Max, or how his parents expect the entire family - and world, really - to cater to him.  He's newly diagnosed, so I was hoping as the show goes on they figure out that a kid can have ASD and also be a brat - not everything he does is something he's helpless against because of his disorder.  But I took a quick look at this thread and the vaulted forum, and, nope, it seems that will not come to pass. 

But I like the extended Braverman family dynamic, so I'll keep on with it at least for a while.

I liked Haddie getting her moment when Adam apologized for them having completely forgotten her championship game because they were too busy foisting Max on the school administrator (because, even though that grade was full - and this is an environment in which an appropriately small class size is even more important - if she just met him for five minutes, of course she'd realize he's the most amazing kid in the world and admit him) and said he knows it's been a rough couple of weeks for her, too.  She looks at him like he's the delusional dolt he's being, and says it's been years, not weeks, and she has no idea why anyone is acting surprised by this diagnosis, since it has been clear since he was quite young there was something going on and, oh by the way, she's the one who's always had to suffer for it.

[Bastet]

Hmm.  I finished the first season and thought, yes, definitely I want to continue on with this, but seven episodes into season two I am starting to hate some of these people.

I thought first season Kristina was written well, but now she's an utter cartoon, every horrible TV stereotype of the controlling SAHM (and, in the case of teaching Haddie to drive, fucking psychotic).  And first season Sarah was a believable mess, and now she turns into an idiot any time a man passes within five feet of her.  It's like the writers all came down with a terminal case of misogyny over the hiatus.

At least things are finally getting interesting over at Julia and Joel's; he was written as ridiculously perfect, so now that he's working again and they're having to figure out how to coordinate schedules, there's some realism. 

I hope we continue to see Jasmine's family, because apparently everyone else who married a Braverman is an orphaned only child, so it's no problem within any of these marriages how much time is spent at Braverman family dinners and events, because there's no other family to be factored in.

On a shallow note, I never thought Bonnie Bedelia was particularly attractive back in the day, but, damn, she's beautiful in this.

[Bastet]

Okay, having finished the second season, I'm out. Because they left a few words out of the title; it should be How to Suck at Parenthood.  And, of course, their parenting fails are going to be part of it, but they're just so bad at this; Jabbar is the only kid who isn't running his family.

I was so glad when after Camille and Zeek babysat Sydney Camille told Julia that Zeek may be a cranky jackass who handles a lot of things wrong, but he is absolutely right about that kid.  It's not "stifling her spirit" to teach her some damn rules and respect.  That's the job!

And, of course, the way Kristina and Adam's house revolves around bribing Max not to be a fucking terror, but there's also their totally ineffectual handling of Haddie.  After they relent and say she can see Adam twice a week, she immediately starts having him over EVERY DAY.  They do nothing.

Amber jeopardizes her aunt's professional reputation by getting baked on the job, and Sarah's response is to take her out for pasta.  It takes getting shoved by her daughter for her to realize, gee, I shouldn't have been letting my teenage daughter do whatever the hell she wants these past few years.

Also, if I took a drink for every time Sarah barges into a sibling's office when there's someone else in it, I'd ... well, maybe I'd be buzzed enough to deal with some of these people.  They don't produce enough alcohol to make Max bearable, though.

[LeisureTime]

I'm watching for the first time, so I can't read all these comments right now, but I'm midway through season 3, and the one where Zeek drags everyone to his mother's birthday shall now be known as the episode where I couldn't hold it in any longer and had to pause it so I could find somewhere to say that Max, Haddie, Sydney, to a lesser extent Amber and Drew and very rarely Jabbar are the whiniest, rudest bunch of brats I've ever seen congregated on one show.

The light skimming I did on the way to the comment box made me feel like I'm probably not alone. I was mentally grumbling over Kristina asking -- not telling, and in fact literally begging -- Max to turn his video game while he ignored her but I mostly brushed it off as par for the course in that family. But my last straw (that was primed a few episodes earlier with Drew and Sarah -- was when Haddie could not put her goddamn phone down for 30 seconds to talk to Adam during the car ride.

Why are these kids so incredibly rude?! This stuff would not have flown for one second in my house growing up.

[LeisureTime]

I just saw the one where Haddie got into Cornell, and her parents tried to tell her she couldn't go. That was literally the one time she could have screeched "That's not FAIR!!" and I would have been 100 percent on her side.  Also the first time since the pilot-- and maybe the situation with Steve -- that I've really felt a lot of sympathy for her. She was definitely taking the high road before Adam and Kristina changed course, and it was a really mature conversation on her side when she told Kristina they can tell her she can't go to Cornell because of Max and Nora and Adam's job and she can accept it, but they can't tell her not to be upset about the loss.

On the other hand, there's a part of me that really wanted her to say that they DON'T get to make that decision for her. If she does her research, and she decides that the student loans she would incur -- sure to go down for her sophomore year as Adam's income report is adjusted, unless the Luncheonette makes major bank -- then that's her prerogative and her responsibility to do everything else she can do to mitigate the cost during her time there through jobs and scholarships. They don't get to say she can't go because they don't want her to have student loan debt at the end. 

But my parents couldn't afford to pay a dime for my college, so maybe I'm coming from  a different perspective.

[LinkAiris]

On 5/11/2022 at 4:42 PM, LeisureTime said:

I just saw the one where Haddie got into Cornell, and her parents tried to tell her she couldn't go. That was literally the one time she could have screeched "That's not FAIR!!" and I would have been 100 percent on her side.  Also the first time since the pilot-- and maybe the situation with Steve -- that I've really felt a lot of sympathy for her. She was definitely taking the high road before Adam and Kristina changed course, and it was a really mature conversation on her side when she told Kristina they can tell her she can't go to Cornell because of Max and Nora and Adam's job and she can accept it, but they can't tell her not to be upset about the loss.

On the other hand, there's a part of me that really wanted her to say that they DON'T get to make that decision for her. If she does her research, and she decides that the student loans she would incur -- sure to go down for her sophomore year as Adam's income report is adjusted, unless the Luncheonette makes major bank -- then that's her prerogative and her responsibility to do everything else she can do to mitigate the cost during her time there through jobs and scholarships. They don't get to say she can't go because they don't want her to have student loan debt at the end. 

But my parents couldn't afford to pay a dime for my college, so maybe I'm coming from  a different perspective.

It sounds like you resonated deeply with Haddie's storyline in that episode, especially regarding her desire to attend Cornell despite her parents' concerns. Your empathy for her frustration and admiration for her maturity in handling the conversation with her parents are evident. It's understandable that you found yourself torn between wanting Haddie to assert her independence in making her own decisions about college and also recognizing the financial realities her parents are concerned about. Your perspective, shaped by your own experiences with college finances, adds a layer of understanding to your reaction.