Downton Abbey: The Movie (2019)

[Hiyo]

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Henry’s kid has zero claim to Downton

Well, of course. None of Mary or Edith's suitors did, nor any of their kids also (if they had kids with Mary and Edith). Once Mary popped out George, things were secure.

[Crs97]

IIRC, Matthew used his inheritance to create a partnership with the Earl, but we don’t know what that looked like.  The title of course will go to George, but Matthew’s share of the Downton partnership went to Mary so Caroline has some claim.

[sark1624]

Yes, in one hand it is the the tittle and the estate, if i remember well, Robert still owns 50% of the estate and Mary the other 50%, so when Robert dies, George inherits the tittle and that 50% and he would have to share with Mary. But this is not treated neither in the series or in the movies, but most of the times and in order to avoid death duties those families would normally transfer the estates to the next heir, so it would be the normal way of doing things that Robert starts to give his share to George when him is older (21 something years old). The thing is that Mary dies, Henry Talbot (if there is no will) would inherit her 50% as husband. But again, this type of families would made all sort of arrangements in order to not divide the estates. Is the same with Edith and Bertie, if they have a son, he would inherit almost everything, the tittle and the estate, probably Marigold would inherit all that Edith got from Gregson. In the cruel world of aristocracy, the girls and second boys were always shafted.

In economic therms, marrying Henry Talbot was a bad choice, a woman like Mary should marry  someone who can bring a lot of money to the family, a Carlisle kind of man, the marriage is not only about love, it has an important economic impact, how it is divided and the administration, etc. In the other hand, Edith hit the jackpot, she married a rich aristocrat, her "job" now is produce an heir for them, because by inheriting that tittle and estate Bertie suddenly became a real catch, so Edith las lucky that she could marry him when she was in her 30s, 

[Crs97]

And yet Edith still found a lot to complain about - why does everyone have to want me on their committee?  Why does the king have to like my husband so much?  She is ridiculous.

[Megara]

3 hours ago, Crs97 said:

IIRC, Matthew used his inheritance to create a partnership with the Earl, but we don’t know what that looked like.  The title of course will go to George, but Matthew’s share of the Downton partnership went to Mary so Caroline has some claim.

Not if she doesn’t want to split up the estate. Even though Mary has the 50% stake, the end goal was to keep the property with the title (which was the whole point of the entail to begin with), and the title holder will be George. Robert is passing on his half to George so naturally you’d think she’d give her whole 50% to the future Earl.

Henry Talbot was a terrible economic choice and I’m hoping she had sense enough to write a will because it’d be unfortunate if he somehow got a hold of Mary and George’s money.

Caroline can have half of that used car dealership, leave Downton Abbey alone 😂

Edited October 8, 2019 by Megara

[Crs97]

I don’t think Caroline would demand part of Downton itself, but she still is entitled to some inheritance.  Henry and Tom’s auto shop looked like it had expanded and was doing well, and frankly I wanted to know why he was having meetings in the US.  He may not have Carlisle’s money, but Mary and Henry looked like they were doing fine.

[Megara]

Caroline doesn’t have a claim to any of Matthew’s money. I have to go back and listen to the scene where they read his letter, but I was under the impression that “you must take charge” meant she was his heiress for the purposes of being in charge of George’s half of the estate (i.e. Matthew’s half which he left to his son). In other words she’s just the trustee with a fiduciary duty to George not to do anything crazy with his money until he’s of age (like leave it to a stepsister). I mean I don’t think Julian Fellowes knows what he’s talking about because the letter is saying two different things: “you’re my sole heiress” + “take charge (of the estate) for our child’s sake”—like which is it? The debate wasn’t who was ultimately going to get the money because the answer is George, just who was going to look after his share until he was of age. None of that money specified in the letter acting as a will would Caroline have a claim on. Or at least that’s what I would argue if I was George’s lawyer at any rate.

She’d probably get something but that something would come from Mary’s allowance or Henry himself, not from Matthew Crawley’s estate.

EDIT: So I went back and read a transcript and she is the beneficiary, and I’m assuming it’s fee simple so she could theoretically convey it to Caroline, but I don’t really think she would because the intent of this letter was clearly for the interest to go to their kid eventually.

If anyone’s interested: 

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My darling Mary, we are off to Duneagle in the morning and I have suddenly realized that I've never made a will or anything like one, which seems pretty feeble for a lawyer and you being pregnant makes it even more irresponsible.

I'll do it properly when I get back and tear this up before you ever see it but I'll feel easier that I've recorded on paper that I wish YOU to be my sole heiress. I cannot know if our baby is a boy or a girl but I do know it will be a baby, if anything happens to me before I've drawn up a will and so you must take charge.

And now I shall sign this and get off home for dinner with you.

What a lovely, lovely thought.

Matthew.

So the heiress part was clear, but I feel like they could have still disputed the part at the end because I read his intentions as being her caring for the estate for the benefit of their son. I’d lose all respect for Mary if she did break up the estate.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Megara

[sark1624]

2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

And yet Edith still found a lot to complain about - why does everyone have to want me on their committee?  Why does the king have to like my husband so much?  She is ridiculous.

Also it was illogic, ovbiously the role of Cora and Edith by marrying a tittled man would have been a hard one, for that reason, also was totally idiotic seeing Cora doing nothing and that Violet would have been still active. In the moment that Robert´s father dies, inmediatily Robert becomes the earl and Cora the countess, in that aspect, Cora would have been 24/7 participating in charities (along with ALL her daughters), in meetings, and so on. Curiosly, managing hospital committees became very handy for the country, because all those aristocratic girls knew how a hospital is run at least in its administrative way, those women stated inmediatily to prepare hospitals in those houses and very few people in the country knew how a hospital really works and with thousands of casualties it helped a lot. Also common people expected that from them that sort of action, people understood that if they had privilegies they also have obligations, for that reason Mary doing nothing would have been very bad seeing by the rest, just compare that the royal princess were also nurses, that the gardens of Buckingham palace were used to plant vegetables. Idiotic also, that Robert only in 1916 o 1917 opens the house because he didnt want to be disturbed in his tea room, with that thinking Robert would have not lasted 5 minutes in the trenches infested of roting corps, rats and lices. 

The thing with Edith, is that she is the first woman in the family that tasted "freedom" by having and indepent job (outside of what aristoratic lady was supposed to do), so going back to the rol of hostess could have been a shock, but if she acepted Bertie when he was already a marquess she should have known very clearly whats was in ahead. 

[Atlanta]

When Tom and Talbot started their car company, I imagined the beginnings of Jaguar or Aston Martin and that it may be what keeps the roof on Downton repaired.

[Megara]

I was thinking more they’d go bankrupt during the Depression but I’m awful like that 😂. Apparently the auto industry didn’t tank completely in England so maybe they had a chance. Tom has a good head on his shoulders sometimes.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Megara

[Crs97]

34 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

When Tom and Talbot started their car company, I imagined the beginnings of Jaguar or Aston Martin and that it may be what keeps the roof on Downton repaired.

I always envisioned some scene in which Henry and Tom design a car and Henry wants to name it somehow after Mary.  Mary tells him the British version of over her dead body, and they banter a bit before she says, “I like cats.”  And we are all left thinking they started the Jaguar company and Downton really is saved.

[sark1624]

3 hours ago, Atlanta said:

When Tom and Talbot started their car company, I imagined the beginnings of Jaguar or Aston Martin and that it may be what keeps the roof on Downton repaired.

In the movie they showed the garage, it didnt look impresive to be honest, but it is a small business and they are just starting. The great depression didnt affect all sectors in the same way, for example the aristocracy always put their money in the land, so they didnt suffer too much in comparison to the heavy industries, banks and so on, and curiously in our days any acre of land is gold. Probably they would have been affected but also the middle class keep buying cars and other consumer goods, hard to tell. 

[Hiyo]

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He may not have Carlisle’s money, but Mary and Henry looked like they were doing fine.

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When Tom and Talbot started their car company, I imagined the beginnings of Jaguar or Aston Martin and that it may be what keeps the roof on Downton repaired.

Yeah, even when the series ended, I always got the feeling that while they weren't necessarily going to be the next Jaguar or Aston Martin, the "everyone gets a happy ending" nature of the finale meant Henry and Tom's new business would be successful financially.

[Megara]

I hope they’re not just for the sake of drama. The thing about happy endings is I felt like it was hard to justify this movie when hardly anything happened. I enjoyed having new content but I want Mary’s marriage to fall apart in the sequel 😈

[Crs97]

Mary and Henry’s marriage was happy.  Edith was the one complaining.  If anyone’s marriage was going to implode . . .

[Megara]

Is it though? He’s barely there 🙃

[Hiyo]

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Mary and Henry’s marriage was happy.

I also hope they last. I like them together.

[Megara]

I just wanted her with someone who complements her personality moreso than he does. I thought it was insulting to the audience that they had to tell us they were in love rather than show us. I’m just reminded of how when Charles Blake basically said she’ll get bored with Gillingham because she’s smarter than he is—there’s very little that distinguishes Henry Talbot from him. Same smarmy attitude that she’s in love with him despite her repeatedly telling him no, same pushiness, same overall dull personality. Even her parents were scratching their heads as to why this was even a thing. I always thought Anna’s opinions were a good gauge for what’s actually going on—her tepid reaction to Talbot made me think maybe this isn’t the right guy (she was the same way with Gillingham).

Tom seemed more in love with Talbot than she did.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Megara

[Atlanta]

So I guess there will be a sequel

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7553393/Downton-Abbey-film-sequel-movie-takes-110million-box-office.html

I would like the car biz to be a success. It's in its nascent stage right now, but it shows people like Robert that it's not just all about titles and inherited fortune. They can open an auto plant in the village of Downton and bring jobs there.

[Megara]

Interesting. Wonder if Julian Ovenden’s available...

[nora1992]

9 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Mary and Henry’s marriage was happy.  Edith was the one complaining.  If anyone’s marriage was going to implode . . .

But I wonder if part of Edith's woe is due to a fear of deja vu: last time she was pregnant and the father went abroad, he never returned.....

[Crs97]

I still want Gregson’s wife to claw her way out of the asylum he dumped her in so that he could steal her family’s newspaper business.  That would make a fun sequel. 

[Atlanta]

Edith does not have fond memories of pregnancy. I do really like Bertie and the actors have chemistry. It's funny that Edith and Andy are dating in real life. LOL

[sark1624]

i saw again and since i like history it was weird that Henry Talbot didnt wear campaign  war medals in neither scene, that means that he is not a war veteran. I am not saying that was something bad per se, Robert and Bates medals are those from the boer wars, Thomas and Bertie have ww1 campaign medals (Matthew, Gregson, Strallan, Gillingham, Blake and Napier were also veterans but we never saw wearing them). From what i know the only way to avoid being service in that period is by having a medical problem (Tom, who didnt want to fight anyway and Molesley in wich Violet faked his medical records) or have some special skill that make you important to stay working in that area a engineer or diplotmat, etc. 

From what i saw, i saw both sisters happy with their husbands, Mary seemed happy with Talbot, what worried her was the vast amount of work that Downton requires, and Edith was happy by being pregnant and with Bertie, but also was tired of "working" as a marchioness. In fairness, both of them knew what was ahead, Mary knew about the big task of keeping the estate afloat and even Bertie talk about being always on parade by being the new king of the county.  

[Megara]

Wasn’t his father a politician? Maybe he used his influence to get him out of it.

[Quilt Fairy]

I finally saw the movie yesterday and it was...….. OK.  I found it very disjointed as we're hopping around from one storyline to another so each character gets their HEA.  Almost like a bit of fan fiction.  The acting was surprisingly wooden, given that these actors had 6 years with their characters.  There were also scenes where the camera was bobbing around, which I really hate. 

Didn't like Violet's storyline.

Anna Bates sure learned a lot in prison. 😉

[sark1624]

On 10/9/2019 at 12:10 PM, Megara said:

Interesting. Wonder if Julian Ovenden’s available...

Well if is in that way, that would be a very big stain in a upper class man, as i wrote before, all those men were expected to serve, even Robert was very dissapointed when he couldnt go to the front. 

[Megara]

Wouldn’t be the first time Henry Talbot or his did something objectionable.

[Hiyo]

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i saw again and since i like history it was weird that Henry Talbot didnt wear campaign  war medals in neither scene, that means that he is not a war veteran.

Or someone in production just screwed up,

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Wouldn’t be the first time Henry Talbot or his did something objectionable.

What was so objectionable?

[Crs97]

If they care to, it’s an easy fix in which they say Henry was working on the diplomatic side or in some sort of intelligence position during the war.

[sark1624]

29 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

If they care to, it’s an easy fix in which they say Henry was working on the diplomatic side or in some sort of intelligence position during the war.

Most probably, but that is the frustating part of the character they never more gave info about his background, we never saw other relatives. Maybe he stayed in england working in some ministery or something, but that contradicts his profession as a car driver. Perhaps he stayed in england working in something related to motorcars, remember that in that area the army was replacing horses for trucks and so on, so perhaps he stayed in the private sector developing new technologies and thay way he avoided service. 

[Hiyo]

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If they care to, it’s an easy fix in which they say Henry was working on the diplomatic side or in some sort of intelligence position during the war.

Good enough for me.

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we never saw other relatives

Besides Lady Shackleton?

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Maybe he stayed in england working in some ministery or something, but that contradicts his profession as a car driver

Or he could have worked in some Ministry then took up race car driving, which was a passion of his, after the War.

Is Henry's lack of war medals that big a part of the narrative that it needs to be explained?

[Megara]

I object to his entire existence but I’ll give you the short version: he’s a younger, allegedly fitter version of Sir Richard Carlisle in that he tells Mary what’s what and gets a pass because it’s Matthew Goode.

Or he just didn’t serve because he didn’t want to and didn’t care.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Megara

[Hiyo]

I guess we'll never know for sure unless they address in the next movie.

[sark1624]

5 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Is Henry's lack of war medals that big a part of the narrative that it needs to be explained?

A bit yes, if Downton praises itself by have some connection with history it should have been mentioned, the first world war was a big thing, Sybil became a nurse, William was bullied by women for not being a soldier and then he was killed, Thomas was wounded Matthew was wounded and so on, Robert was frustated by not being sent to the front, Blake and Gillingham knew each other for the war, Edith worked in the farm and helped in the house, Cora was happy because finally she fell useful, Strallan got incapacitated, Gregson commented about the trenches with Matthew, Bertie stayed in the army, Tom was going to protest when he would be on parade, and so on. If Mary is true to her own words that she should marry "sensibly" and as tipically women from the aristocracy she could have never married a person who "ducked" service for his country, one of the roles of upper class men was to serve their country in the armed, for that reason they died in masses as officers, in reality a humble private had far more chances of coming alive than a upper class young man.  But if they accepted him in the family is perhaps his motives to not go to the war here honourable. 

[Hiyo]

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 Gregson commented about the trenches with Matthew, Bertie stayed in the army,

But none of that was all that important to the overall narrative (and not really all that important to the movie), since none of them were around in season 2.

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If Mary is true to her own words that she should marry "sensibly" and as tipically women from the aristocracy she could have never married a person who "ducked" service for his country

I also doubt many women from the aristocracy married their Irish Catholic chauffeurs either.

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But if they accepted him in the family is perhaps his motives to not go to the war here honourable. 

Except we don't know anything about Henry's involvement during the war, so we don't really know what happened.

I still it was a mistake from production, probably because Henry's whereabouts during season 2 really have no bearing on what happened during seasons 5 and 6 and none really on the movie itself. Maybe they will it address it if the sequel takes places during WWII, who knows.

[Megara]

The only thing I’ll say in his defense is historically there would have been slim pickings after the war, so the decision worked out for him.

Mary didn’t marry sensibly period, and Fellowes acknowledged that after the show ended. I think his excuse was had she married someone with better prospects, we would have questioned her motives. I questioned her motives because everybody else had to tell her and the audience she loved him. It was ridiculous.

But I feel validated by another possible stain on his character 😂

Edited October 11, 2019 by Megara

[Hiyo]

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he’s a younger, allegedly fitter version of Sir Richard Carlisle in that he tells Mary what’s what and gets a pass because it’s Matthew Goode.

I don't see him as a younger Carlisle at all. And I'm neutral on Mathew Goode.

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Mary didn’t marry sensibly period, and Fellowes acknowledged that after the show ended.

When did he do that? I have a feeling if he really felt that way, he would have corrected things by having them be divorced or decide to divorce in the movie.

[Roseanna]

On 10/8/2019 at 11:17 PM, Megara said:

I have to go back and listen to the scene where they read his letter, but I was under the impression that “you must take charge” meant she was his heiress for the purposes of being in charge of George’s half of the estate (i.e. Matthew’s half which he left to his son). In other words she’s just the trustee with a fiduciary duty to George not to do anything crazy with his money until he’s of age (like leave it to a stepsister). I mean I don’t think Julian Fellowes knows what he’s talking about because the letter is saying two different things: “you’re my sole heiress” + “take charge (of the estate) for our child’s sake”—like which is it? The debate wasn’t who was ultimately going to get the money because the answer is George, just who was going to look after his share until he was of age. None of that money specified in the letter acting as a will would Caroline have a claim on. Or at least that’s what I would argue if I was George’s lawyer at any rate.

She’d probably get something but that something would come from Mary’s allowance or Henry himself, not from Matthew Crawley’s estate.

As Matthew's letter was accepted as binding before law, I think that "you are my sole heiress" can only mean that Mary is the owner until she dies. 

If Matthew had meant that Mary was just taking charge until the child was of age, he would have written "our child is my sole heir(ess), but you are taking charge until he or she is of age"   Plus, given Mary an allowance.

Actually, being a lawyer, Matthew was unbelievably lazy. He should have made a testament right after he made an agreement with Robert and that testament should have covered all possible situations: no child, only son(s), son(s) and daughter(s), only daughter(s). 

Even the letter didn't include the possibilities that the child would born dead, or Mary wouldn't survive or both. 

[Roseanna]

On 10/8/2019 at 10:24 PM, Crs97 said:

And yet Edith still found a lot to complain about - why does everyone have to want me on their committee?  Why does the king have to like my husband so much?  She is ridiculous.

On 10/9/2019 at 1:30 AM, sark1624 said:

The thing with Edith, is that she is the first woman in the family that tasted "freedom" by having and indepent job (outside of what aristoratic lady was supposed to do), so going back to the rol of hostess could have been a shock, but if she acepted Bertie when he was already a marquess she should have known very clearly whats was in ahead. 

Edith had to have some plot in the movie, so Fellowed invented that she was dissatiesfied with her new duties - after having her no possibility to ponder these things in the series but presenting her marriage with a marquis only as a fairy tale ending, with no thought that she would give up her magazine and an independent life in London.

If Fellowes wasn't such a reactionary snob, he would have let Edith began to edit her magazine and possibly marry a decent man who worked in London (also Bertie could have got a job with the help of his army comrades).

And Tom would have become a Labor journalist or even a MP or stayed in Boston. That he woud got an estate by marrying an illegimate heiress is most ridiculous of all.  

[Megara]

8 hours ago, Hiyo said:

I don't see him as a younger Carlisle at all. And I'm neutral on Mathew Goode.

When did he do that? I have a feeling if he really felt that way, he would have corrected things by having them be divorced or decide to divorce in the movie.

Just not a fan of how emotionally abusive he came off as particularly in the episode where they got married. I just watched 5x04 last night and perhaps a more recent comparison would be with Lord Gillingham. They both have trouble comprehending the word “no.”

Sometime in 2016 I believe. It’s been a while since I read it but his words were something along the lines of his being fearful people would question her motives.

@Roseanna: I’m a law student and although Murray believed it was binding, I still think Robert had the basis of a challenge because of the vagueness of the last sentence. Now he wasn’t going to challenge it period, but I think it’s written in a way that there’s room for argument that his intentions were sole heiress until the child was of age. It would have been interesting had they actually gone to probate court 😂. I agree with you that he meant to leave it to Mary and I think the meaning behind that is wonderful and extremely romantic considering she was barred from having Downton because of the entail, but you’re right that he was extraordinarily careless for a lawyer. He should and would have had a will accounting for every contingency. Fellowes just did it for drama.

Edited October 12, 2019 by Megara

[Hiyo]

I still don't see him as being emotionally abusive.

My main issue with their romance was I wish they had started exploring it a bit earlier in season 5, it did feel rushed in season 6 though I still enjoy the pairing.

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It’s been a while since I read it but his words were something along the lines of his being fearful people would question her motives.

That seems more an issue with the audience than him regretting having them end up marrying.

[Megara]

I never said he regretted it, only he acknowledged that it wasn’t necessarily the “smart” choice when Edith outranks her now. I personally don’t care about his title, I just care that he’s more of the same—he bullied her into marriage. He, like Gillingham, could not take no for an answer. She was on the verge of a mental breakdown and he took advantage of her PTSD and guilt instead of giving her space and I personally think that’s disgusting.

I say this as someone who was looking forward to his appearance on the show, but he just wasn’t a good man when you compare him to someone like Charles who when he knew she didn’t want a relationship, backed off and respected her wishes and saw her as an equal, instead of “If you’re trying to get rid of me, I’m going to make things as hard and as horrible as I can”. It just echoes of “If you’re trying to jilt me, just remember: you’ve given me the power to destroy you, and don’t think I won’t use it”, or Gillingham’s “Well I don’t accept your answer and this is something we’re going to get through together.” I mean what is with these men and their inability to recognize the fact that no means no?

Edited October 12, 2019 by Megara

[sark1624]

8 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Edith had to have some plot in the movie, so Fellowed invented that she was dissatiesfied with her new duties - after having her no possibility to ponder these things in the series but presenting her marriage with a marquis only as a fairy tale ending, with no thought that she would give up her magazine and an independent life in London.

If Fellowes wasn't such a reactionary snob, he would have let Edith began to edit her magazine and possibly marry a decent man who worked in London (also Bertie could have got a job with the help of his army comrades).

And Tom would have become a Labor journalist or even a MP or stayed in Boston. That he woud got an estate by marrying an illegimate heiress is most ridiculous of all.  

Well in fariness she didnt married him because of being a marquess, she told Robert and others that she was happy with plain Bertie. In anyway, a important person like the marquess of Hexham would be traveling betwen his differents homes. They would be spend a big period of time in London when Bertie would go to the Lords, i also think that was only to make drama,

But yes, as a marchioness and we have to consider that they are only 34 marquesses compared to 190 earls, and Brancaster (Alnwick) is impressive, so Bertie was one of the seniors and more richest, so yes, Edith would have to face a whole set of new duties, more than Cora as marchioness. 

[Roseanna]

6 hours ago, Megara said:

I never said he regretted it, only he acknowledged that it wasn’t necessarily the “smart” choice when Edith outranks her now. I personally don’t care about his title, I just care that he’s more of the same—he bullied her into marriage. He, like Gillingham, could not take no for an answer. She was on the verge of a mental breakdown and he took advantage of her PTSD and guilt instead of giving her space and I personally think that’s disgusting.

I say this as someone who was looking forward to his appearance on the show, but he just wasn’t a good man when you compare him to someone like Charles who when he knew she didn’t want a relationship, backed off and respected her wishes and saw her as an equal, instead of “If you’re trying to get rid of me, I’m going to make things as hard and as horrible as I can”. It just echoes of “If you’re trying to jilt me, just remember: you’ve given me the power to destroy you, and don’t think I won’t use it”, or Gillingham’s “Well I don’t accept your answer and this is something we’re going to get through together.” I mean what is with these men and their inability to recognize the fact that no means no?

This was Fellowes's idea of romance. 

In the same way, he thought that when Pamuk came to Mary's room and bed and threatened to destroy her reputation if she called for help, Mary actually wanted sex but couldn't admit it. 

[Roseanna]

On 10/9/2019 at 2:41 PM, Crs97 said:

Edith was the one complaining.  If anyone’s marriage was going to implode . . .

I think that any marriage will have some problems and the crux of the matter is to be open and tell to the other what troubles oneself. So Edith was right to "complain", but Bertie was shown to be weak when he couldn't oppose the king.

 Of course, at the time it was hardly expected that a husband would put his wife, even a pregnant one, before his duty. On the other hand, the king's idea wasn't very clever - the Prince of Wales would no doubt have consired Bertie a bore.

[sark1624]

1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

I think that any marriage will have some problems and the crux of the matter is to be open and tell to the other what troubles oneself. So Edith was right to "complain", but Bertie was shown to be weak when he couldn't oppose the king.

 Of course, at the time it was hardly expected that a husband would put his wife, even a pregnant one, before his duty. On the other hand, the king's idea wasn't very clever - the Prince of Wales would no doubt have consired Bertie a bore.

Yes, i think that the Prince of Wales would have considered Bertie too boring, but that was basically the whole idea of the king, basically "babysit" the Prince of Wales. If they wanted of him having fun, they should have send Henry Talbot, i dont know why, but i think that him is some sort of play boy. Yes, he is starting a business and have a baby with Mary but i never got the feeling that he was the "right one", i mean Matthew, Blake, Napier, looked more mature men. I can understand a man in his 20s being like that, but in their 30s he already should have settled and have a steady career in something for someone of the upper class (politics, army, managing land, civil service, etc).

In therms of Mary and Edith marriages i think that both of them have their own set of problems, ovbiously it seems that Mary is trying to work alone in Downton, we didnt seem Henry to involved in runnig the palce neither knows much about farming and counry life, and even in the last series he didnt seem to involved with Mary´s parents, just a good looking object there to keep Mary calm. In the other hand Edith being stretched by the obligations that being a marchioness it is. For example they are close to the 29 crash, how that would impact Tom and Henry business, and those estates, then the whole abdication crisis, meaning that if Edith is still a marchioness, as a woman in high rank should have to play some sort of role in the coronation and the rest, and she already said that those things are boring to her. 

Edited October 12, 2019 by sark1624

[AZChristian]

So this movie was set in 1927, and Queen Elizabeth was born in 1926.  How come Papa George V wasn't sending his SON (also Bertie) along with the Prince of Wales?  If fatherhood wasn't that important to the king to where he was willing to send Edith's Bertie away to babysit a grown man, why not send his son, who had also proven himself to be stable?

[Megara]

4 hours ago, Roseanna said:

This was Fellowes's idea of romance. 

In the same way, he thought that when Pamuk came to Mary's room and bed and threatened to destroy her reputation if she called for help, Mary actually wanted sex but couldn't admit it. 

I hated that scene too for that precise reason.

[Quilt Fairy]

5 hours ago, AZChristian said:

If fatherhood wasn't that important to the king to where he was willing to send Edith's Bertie away to babysit a grown man, why not send his son, who had also proven himself to be stable?

I'm no expert, but presumably the Duke of York would have other duties at home in England.   There would be no need to waste two royals on a tour where one would do.