The Best and Worst of One Life to Live

[TeeVee329]

Male-centered triangles almost never work. They seem to inevitably lead to the guy being a passive, entitled, smug douche (which was often the default setting for a ABCDaytime leading man, anyway), while two women - almost always the more interesting and layered characters - did all the heavy lifting.

 

And the John McBain love triangle in particular was a formula - John is involved with someone, but is clearly feeling feelings for someone else, constantly trying to save them or smooching them or sniffing their hair.  And eventually, his actual girlfriend has to be the one to hand hold him through the breakup and push him towards the other woman.

 

The very hasty patch job they attempted to try and 'fix' her character right as she exited, and then later, was even worse. "Patrick will cure her!"

 

I haaated that.  "Marty went crazy because she lost the love and wang of a good man, John McBain.  But no worries, the love and wang of another good man will cure her right up!".  Ugh.  

 

And poor Dr. Buhari - an actually competent soap shrink - was still dead!  Casually making Marty a murderer for no good reason really was the cherry on the crap sundae.

Edited August 27, 2015 by TeeVee329

[AndySmith]

Reading these comments...I'm glad I wasn't around for the rapemance story. It sounded horrible. TV shows have a tendancy to try and revisit past glories (Marty being raped in the early 90s was a classic, well done story), but in this case, it seemed like revisiting the story was just done badly. And honestly, was just not necessary.

[Mecca]

I make allowances for many, many things on soaps, including many of the bad things Todd did, because he was one of my favorite characters. The rape was not one of those things. When the rapemance happened I wrote the character off, until it turned out that Todd was not Todd.

 

You were able to make allowances for Todd when he raped Marty in the 90's so much so that he became one of your favorite characters, but you wrote the character off when he did essentially the same thing in 2008.

 

Why is one sexual assault more excusable to you than the other when in both cases Todd is still a rapist?

Edited August 27, 2015 by Mecca

[jsbt]

You were able to make allowances for Todd when he raped Marty in the 90's so much so that he became one of your favorite characters, but you wrote the character off when he did essentially the same thing in 2008.

 

Why is one sexual assault more excusable to you than the other when in both cases Todd is still a rapist?

 

You misunderstand. I never, ever made allowances for Todd raping Marty in the '90s; in fact, I explicitly said I didn't. I said I made allowances for some of the terrible things he did to people later on in his life. But I was also speaking very broadly when I say 'allowances.'

 

Todd raping Marty is his original sin, it is unspeakable and it will never be erased. Todd was never redeemed for what he did, but he did suffer, he did come to understand something of what he had done to Marty, and he did make some efforts to atone. Todd is a deeply dysfunctional character, and as I said, he did terrible things to many of his loved ones because he was a paranoid, often delusional villain whose worst self got the best of him. IMO, the rooting value for the audience was seeing how much this monster could make himself into a better man, whether he would crawl out of the pit he was in, or slip again, or gain some new footing. Often he did slip and fail and do terrible things, and I hated when he did them and condemned his behavior, but I also usually understood the character's psychology and the twisted choices and logic that led him there. Even when I disliked what he did, I understood how it happened while not excusing it, so maybe 'allowances' was the wrong word. Also, I at least knew that Todd would continue trying to be better, that sometimes he'd even succeed in incremental ways. I also firmly believed they'd established one rule with Todd in the years after his rape of Marty, which was that he had come to keenly understand the horror of sexual violence, and that he would never rape again.

 

When Victor raped Marty, in the guise of "Todd", in 2008, the message the show appeared to be wanting to send was that this was a Todd who had genuinely fallen in love with Marty for questionable reasons, and had become convinced he could unmake his horrific past with her if he romanced her and she, amnesiac and brain-damaged, consented to some sort of loving union. They seemed to be trying to suggest that this might be kinda sorta okay/acceptable because hey, now Marty wants it too.

 

In reality, though, that was all disgusting horseshit. That was a Todd that was willing to take his own rape victim to bed, knowing she was brain-damaged, knowing she was impaired, knowing she had no other context or agency and would never have touched him in her right mind, and raping her all over again in order to service his own self-image. Rape is the one thing I believed Todd would never do again, let alone do it to Marty, let alone do it to a Marty who can't remember, and that's what singlehandedly made the character unrecognizable to me. I could hardly look at their 'love scene.' The actors are attractive people with definite chemistry but it still turns my stomach. So no, I never made allowance for him raping anyone and I never will. And if Roger Howarth's Todd had played the storyline I would have written him off as well.

Edited August 27, 2015 by jsbt

[AndySmith]

You know in the 90s female fans would scream "Rape me, Todd!" at Roger Howarth at OLTL fan events...and they meant it. Needless to say, it made RH extremely uncomfortable.

 

In some ways, Todd is like Luke from General Hospital. A short-term character who commits a rape but for whatever reason caught on with audience and is added to the show full time. And will always have that icky part of their history following them around, unfortunately. In Todd's case though, it wasn't as detrimental, since he was never redeemed to the point of being an out and out hero the way Luke was (especially during the 80s).

Edited August 27, 2015 by AndySmith

[dubbel zout]

Marty's terrible shrinking during the Teen!Jess mess.

 

Oh, GOD, that was the worst. "Just let her think she's a teen; it'll work itself out." 

[TeeVee329]

I dunno who hindered Teen!Jess' recovery worse.  Marty with her "Let her be" attitude or VicTodd buying her way into the high school to, I believe, score points with Dani.

[dubbel zout]

I'd go with Marty; if Tess had been getting the intensive treatment she so desperately needed, it's likely the other events wouldn't have happened. Plus, Marty is supposed to be a mental health professional. VicTodd was merely a professional asshole.

Edited August 27, 2015 by dubbel zout

[TeeVee329]

The only person who seemed to fully get that Teen!Jess was mentally ill was Layla, even as the show was portraying as the jealous, insecure girlfriend.

[Melgaypet]

Another difference between Todd's two rapes of Marty: consequences. It is easier to accept a villainous character as long-term when they are punished for their terrible actions. Todd was punished - he went to prison, he lived in poverty as the town pariah, Crazy Powell Lord terrorized him in a similar way to how Todd terrorized Marty.

 

How was Victodd punished for the rapemance? He wasn't. Tea got him off all criminal charges (by manipulating Starr into perjuring herself - lest we forget that the rapemance included Victodd's intention to re-create Todd's other great sin - Dead Baby Lie - by stealing Hope), he didn't lose his money, he didn't (permanently) lose his children's or sister's affections, within six months he was the smirking centerpoint of a "fun" sexytimes love triangle with Tea and Blair.

[Dandesun]

Another difference between Todd's two rapes of Marty: consequences. It is easier to accept a villainous character as long-term when they are punished for their terrible actions. Todd was punished - he went to prison, he lived in poverty as the town pariah, Crazy Powell Lord terrorized him in a similar way to how Todd terrorized Marty.

 

This is all too true. It's why I have such a hard time with Sonny and Franco over on GH and I don't even watch that shit anymore! There are no consequences! Certainly none that last.

 

Todd became viable through a long storyline that took it's time and took the right steps but still never made him a hero or even a good person. Until the last days of OLTL, Todd was still reviled by most of Llanview. He never got the benefit of the doubt and he was never taken as anything but a liar and a criminal who would always cover his own ass first.

 

Look, I write stories about Todd and Blair. And back in the day they were wildly sexually explicit because they certainly never were on the show... and they are far more romantic and mature than they are on the show as well because... that's not what I got on the show for the most part. (I also tend to focus on Blair's issues because Odin knows the show never bothered.) But they are both wildly flawed creatures that are looked down on by most of Llanview. They are the broken heroes of their own story but they are not the king and queen of the prom and they never will be. They are outsiders due to their own behaviors (which Blair didn't really deserve in later years because she cleaned up her act a LOT) and the designated righteous are never going to invite them into their inner circle.

 

That works. VicTodd had a few too many people on his side at times and he started believing his own hype as well and that made him rather insufferable. Todd was always weighed down by his lesser angels. He could be flippant and dismissive (early 2000s are a good example of this) and that made him rather insufferable as well.

 

But jsbt is right in that the one thing they seemed to make clear with Todd during his redemptive story was that rape was something he was never going to revisit. The audience accepting a character who did this brutal thing on screen has to know that if they're expected to believe him as viable and not just as a super-villain waiting for a murder mystery he's not going to revisit that crime again. He was shown being tempted to give into that darkness and he rejected it... and then Malone came back and did the he said/she said mess with TSJ and KDP -- which was a fucking travesty. And then they had TSJ's Todd prove Marty wrong after all by raping her via Stockholm Syndrome.

 

The biggest problem with both of those issues were that they threw the women under the bus both times to protect Todd as a character. And by the time of the Grossening Rapemance it was too much. Malone actually did take some time dealing with Not!Todd and Blair after the he said/she said and Not!Todd did suffer some actual consequences there for a bit. Blair got reduced to brain tumor 'I remembered it wrong' shenanigans to make Todd salvageable but the Rapemance was Ron and he doesn't do consequences.

 

It was only Howarth returning that fixed any of it. Ron was tone deaf about that mess until then. He still probably doesn't get why it was so wrong.

[Mecca]

You all have written some well thought out and insightful examinations of Todd's life.  He is definintely a multifaceted character with a lot of layers.  Reading all your responses has given me a better understanding as to why Todd's treatment of Marty was so despised in 2008.  Although my feelings haven't changed regarding these two, I do appreciate being involved in this type of intelligent back and forth discussion vs. the outright dismissiveness I came across when the subject of Todd and Marty was brought up in the past.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Mecca

[AndySmith]

Interestingly enough, the idea of a Todd/Marty romance was floated around in the 90s post-rape, but both Roger Howarth and Susan Haskell were totally deadset against that idea. For some reason, SH was open to the idea when she returned in the 2000s...I guess she bought the whole "Marty + amnesia = of course she'll hook up with the guy who raped her!" idea floated about by TPTB...

Edited August 27, 2015 by AndySmith

[Mecca]

You always hear rumors about actors making certain demands to the producers or flat out refusing to play out certain things.  I wonder how true that is.  There might be some actors like Susan Lucci who have been playing the same role for 20+ years that could have that kind of clout, but I don't believe most actors have that much influence on what their characters say or do.  I think we as viewers like to believe that the actors are as invested in their character as we are, but at the end of the day they are doing their job and getting that paycheck and the writers are the real deciding factor.

[Dandesun]

Oh God... Malone's Marty/Todd thing was a hallucinatory, noxious obscenity. The idea he had of Blair actually always loving Max and eventually Todd and Blair would hook up, respectively, with Marty and Max and fight over the custody of Starr?

 

I mean... can you even imagine that?

 

Malone denied later that he ever intended to go there with Todd and Marty but that whole premise of Todd/Marty vs Blair/Max is from his mouth. What's more, it's why I don't really buy the idea that Roger left the first time because of Todd and Blair. They had broken up and were fighting all the time while Todd was getting more and more involved in Marty's life again. They were really working on building this connection between Todd and Marty that, suddenly, went away immediately after he spent the night at her house (which... ugh). All of sudden she was off in Ireland meeting Patrick and he was having a hesitant lunch with Blair that resulted in them having sex in the stables.

 

I recall hearing about TPTB floating the idea of Todd/Marty at the actors involved. Howarth apparently said the idea was reprehensible especially since it was portrayed so grapically on screen. Apparently someone pointed out Luke/Laura to Haskell and she reminded them that Luke didn't bring two friends along to join in. I was never able to really understand why she went for the rapemance. From Marty's standpoint, yes, she was amnesiac and he had a completely different face but it was still abhorrent. That utterly killed Todd for me. Hell, I didn't even think he and Blair had the same chemistry after that just because the stench of rapemance was all over him.

 

Then they gaveth me Eli and they tooketh away.

 

Bastards.

 

But Howarth came back ready to play so that made a difference. He was engaged and focused on the Todd/Blair story which was lovely to see.

[AndySmith]

Roger Howarth did say that one of the main factors for his first departure during the 90s was he felt they were redeeming Todd a bit too much.

 

I mean... can you even imagine that?

 

I don't mind Blair and Max together as a couple, but Todd and Marty? Um, no.

Edited August 27, 2015 by AndySmith

[Dandesun]

The amount of power that Howarth had is not something that can be confirmed. He certainly didn't get everything he wanted because he and KDP did go to the powers that be during the Tea year and ask to be paired up again and were refused.

 

That being said, he did have some significant clout and I would say it was because of three reasons:

 

1. He was a man.

2. He played a character the show-runners had decided was extremely important.

3. He was not afraid to leave.

 

 

Roger Howarth did say that one of the main factors for his first departure during the 90s was he felt they were redeeming Todd a bit too much.

 

He'd have to be redeemed quite a bit to be paired up with Marty.

[AndySmith]

He'd have to be redeemed quite a bit to be paired up with Marty.

 

Which is how he felt the show was going...and did not agree with that.

[jsbt]

I'm pretty sure both Roger and Susan were in print and on record about Todd and Marty.

 

Knowing how deadset she was, I don't think SH knew how far the rapemance would go when she was sold the story, or how it would play in the scripts. I think she expected it to play as a horror show, with more retribution for Todd/Victor than he got. She became much more disenchanted with that creative team later on.

Oh God... Malone's Marty/Todd thing was a hallucinatory, noxious obscenity. The idea he had of Blair actually always loving Max and eventually Todd and Blair would hook up, respectively, with Marty and Max and fight over the custody of Starr?

 

I knew he'd wanted a Todd/Blair/Max thing revived at some point, and that he was fixated on Todd and Marty, but this particular wrinkle is something I've never heard. I can buy it, but it's new to me.

Edited August 27, 2015 by jsbt

[Dandesun]

I have to change my stance. I went to find the quote regarding Todd and Blair fighting over Starr and Malone never actually mentioned having Blair/Max vs Todd/Marty. So that is my fault and totally wrong. He wanted Blair with Max battling Todd over custody of Starr as 'the ultimate prize.'

 

Again. My bad for misquoting.

 

However, given that he HAS referred to Todd and Marty as 'soulmates separated by a single act of violence' which was burned into my brain ages ago as in such bad taste (I'd swear that was during Todd and Rebecca's relationship...) I might be forgiven for confusing that particular issue.

[dubbel zout]

Until the last days of OLTL, Todd was still reviled by most of Llanview. He never got the benefit of the doubt and he was never taken as anything but a liar and a criminal who would always cover his own ass first.

 

Todd knew that and (mostly) accepted it, which is why I can handle his crimes without going into a rage blackout the way Sonny's send me. Sonny NEVER takes responsibility, or if he does, it's extremely grudgingly and still with excuses.

 

Ron was tone deaf about that mess until then. He still probably doesn't get why it was so wrong.

 

I don't think Ron cared. He wanted to tell this disgusting story, he was enamored with his TwoTodds vision, and he stuck with it until the bitter end. The viewers were the ones misinterpreting everything, not terrible, terrible story writing.

 

I was never able to really understand why she went for the rapemance.

 

An Emmy? I know they practically guaranteed her one if she came back. 

[Dandesun]

Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. It was pretty apparent that the big reveal all but guaranteed her the trophy again. Marty the Eternal Victim.

 

It would have been so much better if they focused on any aspect of Marty OTHER than 'Todd's Victim' but, alas, it was not to be.

[UYI]

I have to change my stance. I went to find the quote regarding Todd and Blair fighting over Starr and Malone never actually mentioned having Blair/Max vs Todd/Marty. So that is my fault and totally wrong. He wanted Blair with Max battling Todd over custody of Starr as 'the ultimate prize.'

 

 

Yep, it's from a Q&A for a Malone fansite:

 

http://www.members.tripod.com/magnifmalonian/id30.htm#__1

 

Here's the relevant part:

 

 

 

Question:  What made you choose to pair Blair with Todd? I never would have thought of these two together.

Malone:  Todd and Blair were a great deal alike, two bad apples, two lost souls: conniving, deceitful, wounded and hiding the wounds for all they were worth behind a smart and sexy facade. Both were very much on guard against ever being susceptible to love. (A Scarlett and Rhett match-up, to use my perennial GWTW analogy that used to drive Josh Griffith crazy.  I loved the movie, he didn't.)  The idea for Todd/Blair came from wondering what would happen if two tricksters set out to trick each other, with no genuine thought of romance,

and what if the ultimate trick was on them and they fell in love?  In the beginning, Blair was trying to marry Todd for his money before he found out he was the heir to the Lord fortune, and Todd was trying to hurt any and

everybody in town.  Slowly they learned how much they had in common--both had rotten childhoods that left them with deep insecurities, both had rotten reputations in Llanview (and deserved them), both were willing to go to any lengths to get what they wanted--the safety of immense wealth, the thrill of somebody else's spouse, social acceptance by those who'd rejected them. 

As soon as we put them together, the chemistry between Roger and Kassie was wonderful and we knew they would work as a couple.  But deepest down, we planned to play that Blair was still in love in Max. That old flame was going to flare up and start fireworks as she and Todd started to fight over the ultimate prize of their daughter, Starr.

Different producers, network folk, different writers took their story other places.

 

It IS pretty crazy to think that Todd & Blair weren't the original long-term plan, because the chemistry was there from day one. And I can't help but wonder how much of Max & Blair's initial chemistry had to do with James & Kassie's own forbidden attraction to one another, as they were still married to their previous spouses when they met. That, I think, is the one exception to RL couples not having chemistry onscreen: I think, when they are first becoming attracted to each other and are not yet officially together, it can absolutely translate onscreen, and I think the fact that JDP & KDP were unable to be together at first because of their other marriages probably heightened it even more. The Atlantic City love scene between M&B in 1994 has never been posted on YouTube, so I've never seen it, but I can only imagine what must have been going through their minds, especially if they were still with Misty Rowe and Richard Hankins (their respective former spouses) at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if that love scene was the final nail in the coffin for both of their marriages, given everything I've heard about it before. 

Edited August 29, 2015 by UYI

[UYI]

Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. It was pretty apparent that the big reveal all but guaranteed her the trophy again. Marty the Eternal Victim.

 

 

I will say this: Susan fucking owned the reveal of that story, and earned every inch of that second Emmy. I was thrilled she won. It's the only thing that saved that story for me.

[jsbt]

And now, some more of the Worst of OLTL. Since ulkis asked about this over on the GH side - more of Ron Carlivati's penchant for making the worst people on his shows 'sympathetic' by getting them shot, beaten up and put into comas. Now featuring Rapin' Vic's death dream. Our heroic rapist has to fight to live so John McBain doesn't marry his fifteen (sixteen?) year old daughter!

 

 

 

Please note: These scenes came about because Victor was beaten to a pulp by the son of the crippled woman he had abducted and raped. Poor Victor! Cole went too far!

Hilariously, what I'd forgotten here is that almost exactly a year later, Victor was in another coma with his family praying over him.

 

 

God, it's really an indictment of how bad Ron and Frank got when you pile up the dates. They have their talents and there was good on OLTL in both periods (in 2011, the 'real' Todd was already on his way back), but for fuck's sake.

Edited September 4, 2015 by jsbt

[ulkis]

Aw, I was hoping they had to make out.

 

What's with the candelabra.

 

If I have that to look forward to with Sonny and his family, I don't think I can make it through the episodes.

Edited September 4, 2015 by ulkis

[TeeVee329]

Please note: These scenes came about because Victor was beaten to a pulp by the son of the crippled woman he had abducted and raped. Poor Victor! Cole went too far!

 

And let's not forget why rage monkey Cole attacked VicTodd - Marty had just gotten pushed down the stairs and lost her baby and VicTodd, in the previous episode, had been in her office viciously berating her (again, the woman he held prisoner and rapemanced) and thus was the prime suspect.

 

I remember that scene of VicTodd screaming at Marty so vividly because it was Kyle Lewis/Brett Claywell's last day (no last scene with Fish, just him popping in to get the Rexes With Wolves retcon going, ugh) and I was aghast that we were losing him/Fish/Schuyler and keeping a character like VicTodd, who snarled at his victim that as long as he was miserable, she would be too or something to that effect.

 

ETA...found it.  I forgot he barged in her door to start yelling at her.  Our romantic lead, ladies and gentlemen! 

 

Edited September 4, 2015 by TeeVee329

[jsbt]

Those scenes with TSJ and SH were actually very good, and fairly well-written, and very disturbing. I recommend that anyone who hasn't seen them watches them. Bear in mind: At this point, as far as the audience knew, Victor was "Todd" and had raped Marty twice over the course of two decades, with the most recent being less than two years prior. When he screams "no!" and she jumps I have no idea why she didn't call the police. Or really, why she didn't when he came in.

 

It showed just how sick a creature Victor was at that point, and his behavior and his insane paranoia made my skin crawl. TSJ clearly loved doing that shit, and he was good at it. But it was also yet another nail in "Todd's" coffin for me after the rapemance. And to RC and crew, this was all apparently just great shading for their dark antihero who had a heart of gold. It would be another year-plus before they revealed this character was not Todd Manning, and the dream sequences above with his fantasy juxtaposed with the hospital scenes where all the women cry and plead for poor Todd to live followed not long after this.

 

It was way too far. It had already gone way too far over a year before. They apparently thought they were writing cable-ready drama or something. They knew how to write a sociopath, but they didn't realize (or didn't care) that they were also writing a sociopath as their romantic lead. This makes Sonny's antics over the last year look like a walk in the park.

 

 

Too slow, TeeVee! Get on my level!

Edited September 4, 2015 by jsbt

[TeeVee329]

They knew how to write a sociopath, but they didn't realize (or didn't care) that they were also writing a sociopath as their romantic lead.

 

This.

 

Taken in a bubble, these are good scenes (I always thought SH and TSJ had good antagonistic chemistry, actually).  But right after this, we were expected to sympathize with VicTodd because they showed it couldn't have been him that pushed Marty.  Poor VicTodd, he's been wrongly accused, he doesn't deserve getting beaten by Cole, how he suffers!  Please.

Edited September 4, 2015 by TeeVee329

[jsbt]

And now, a year later, Victor, Téa and their kids work through family issues!

 

So here's a lot of context ahead of time - this was in 2011, and they'd already hired back and announced the return of Roger Howarth, the original Todd. He had not aired yet and the audience didn't know who he'd play, but they knew something was up. The Two Todds mystery was just beginning at this point, with Blair having traveled to Paris to meet the man (Ted King/Tomas) who'd painted a picture of her that closely resembled her from her famous "golden wedding" to Howarth's Todd in 1995. The painting was dated to 2003 - the year Todd had changed his face, supposedly with plastic surgery. Blair had long since broken up with TSJ's Todd, and the show was going full tilt with "Todd" and Téa as played by TSJ and the unstoppable Florencia Lozano. It was a good setup with Blair and the painting, and it paid off well in August.

 

The thing is, Todd and Téa, in both incarnations with both actors, had always been a twisted, deeply dysfunctional and at times violent relationship. Todd and Téa under Roger Howarth had been emotionally tortured, driven by Todd's personal demons, his angst over his past, and his resulting inability to give himself physically to Téa the way he had Blair, the only woman he was ever with intimately after his rape of Marty in 1993 (until GH). In over a decade, Howarth's Todd only slept with Téa once, and that was on a deserted island as a rebound action, shortly before going back to Blair who had spurned him. For their fans, it was an endless cocktease. For Téa and Todd, they ended up working out their sexual tension through a series of insane capers, kidnappings, assaults, various people being tied up, and at least one time where Todd punched Téa square in the face, knocking her out. I wasn't a fan of the pairing, but I understood the chemistry and I understood how sick they were together. It often made for at least interesting scenes.

 

When RC took over and brought Téa back in 2009, though, he took it to a whole new level. He saw Todd and Téa as a rooting couple, but the way he executed it was (IMO) both very true to their past dysfunction and very inappropriate for a romantic frontburner couple. Less than six months after he had re-raped Marty (a crime which Téa managed to get him exonerated for), TSJ's "Todd"/Victor and Téa fucked like rabbits in a series of kinky, wallbanging scenes, set up by a sequence in which Victor taunted Téa about their past lack of intimacy and told her to get on her knees - "beg me and you shall receive!" This was, again, only the second time Todd and Téa (as they were known then) had ever had sex since meeting in 1997.

 

Out of their context, they were very hot (and fairly well-written) scenes featuring two actors with incredible chemistry who happened to be playing horrible people. I was not a fan, at all, but I admired the performances. It was also something Howarth's Todd would never have done to Téa, and to me it indicated how much of a predator "Todd" had regenerated into. And sure, WTF, here are those scenes from 2009.

 

 

 

Anyway. This brings me to 2011. "Todd" and Téa are at this point established, whether we like it or not, as one of the central couples of the show. They're crazy! They're wild! They're hot! But deep down Todd has a good heart! Victor (stop me when these names get confusing) and Téa's daughter, Dani, wants to have sex with her boyfriend, Nate, but the kids are scared of Victor's disapproval. Especially since back when Starr had sex with her boyfriend, Cole, Victor beat him up, then plotted to steal Starr and Cole's baby and raise it with his rape victim (Marty). They decide to hide out in a family cabin together, aided and abetted by Starr, her boyfriend James, and Téa herself. Téa and Victor are, at this point, 'happily' married and living with Dani under one roof. So then this happens.

 

 

How does Téa deal with her wayward husband's mischief? By going back to what they've always done! These wacky kids! They love hard!

 

 

Again: While I'm sure part of this was the beginning of the setup to reveal TSJ's Todd to be the 'not-right' imposter - they emphasized later on what fans already knew, that "Todd's" relationships with Starr, Blair, Viki and Jessica had never been the same since his "new face" - this was their frontburner veteran couple in 2011.

 

I don't find any of this to be alien to Todd/Victor and Téa; it's classic behavior for them. But I just can't believe the show was cool with portraying it in the schizophrenic way they did. Again, a month after this? Victor is in another coma being wept over by his wife and kids.

Edited September 4, 2015 by jsbt

[AndySmith]

Blech. Lets all cleanse our palettes with a genuinely classic scene.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2015 by AndySmith

[UYI]

And some classic Cord & Tina! He's trying to convince her here not to marry Richard Abbott (who was her cousin, BTW) and be with him. The background here is AMAZING.

 

 

And Tina imagines she's Queen of Mendorra! 1989:

 

[dubbel zout]

It was way too far. It had already gone way too far over a year before.

 

These were the types of scenes that made me super irritated when the Two Todds thing was revealed. I'm supposed to feel sorry for a guy who has been acting so appallingly because it suddenly turns out he was a victim of abuse and brainwashing? Sorry, not going to happen. I can't hand wave it just because the writer demands I do.

 

Todd/VIcTodd/Victor and Téa I bought, though, because as jsbt explains so thoroughly, those two were always a mess together. That wasn't going to change no matter who Todd ended up being. Those two epitomize Tom Lehrer's classic

[Dandesun]

What's with the candelabra.

That's what made it fancy.

Sorry guys, I can't give Tea and Vic!Todd any kind of kudos. It was awful and it continued the trend started whenTea first started up with Todd: shitting all over Blair.

[TeeVee329]

And at least for a while Blair had her sexy, adult relationship with Eli, but of course that was torched but good to prop up VicTodd, Tea, and Dani as the golden family.  Remember when they had that re-do wedding or whatever and Dani sang to her parents?  Crrriiinnngggeee.

[ulkis]

Remember when they had that re-do wedding or whatever and Dani sang to her parents?  Crrriiinnngggeee.

 

Me:

 

[jsbt]

Yes! God! I can't remember if it was even a wedding, I thought it was just some Family Event. "We've invited you all here tonight for this tribute to our enduring love after that whole thing where a serial killer made my wife think she had cancer. Here now, our singing daughter, who hated me for being a serial rapist but she's over all that now." And five or so months later, we have the above scenes with Victor, Dani and the fake gun.

 

And it shows what the writing and creative choices sometimes did to people, because Dani (Kelley Missal) was a shocking revelation on Prospect Park's OLTL - she owned the show almost singlehandedly. The best young heroine I've seen on soaps in a long time. But on Ron and Frank's show, she was just a slightly louder Mini-Starr, or Starr Jr., teen queen. Then there was the time Ron had Dani show up in the courtroom pretending to be a lawyer like her mom, with a power suit and glasses. I think she and Starr(?) fooled the judge? I can't even remember WTF that was about. Poor Kelley. Poor everyone.

Edited September 5, 2015 by jsbt

[ulkis]

 

yes, it's always good to sing to my mom in my sexy voice

[jsbt]

I'd forgotten all about Rapin' Ford being on the scene! 2010 was the year they were really trying to put Ford over as a Good Guy at Heart after he raped Teen Jessica - IIRC, Ron even invoked the original Todd story in the press as a defense for what they were doing with the character, like Ford was Todd Jr. but much nicer or something because his mom abandoned him. All this for a guy who started out as a dayplayer the previous fall, pouring a bucket of water on his abs. It's a Raper Party!

 

That whole Celebrate Our Insane Love Party is much more hilarious now, with hindsight - at the time it was just infuriating and rage-inducing because we were expected to treat Victor and this sick couple like the heroes of the show the same way they were, when he had just re-raped Marty two years before and taunted her about it only months prior. There is no way Bo and Nora would have attended that, among others. Back then this was the show as it was happening, and like others with GH today it made me crazy. Looking back, not only with OLTL off the air but with it having returned much improved on Hulu (IMO), and with Todd having been restored, I can have a more relaxed outlook, knowing this didn't last and was undone.

 

Dani in particular became a really different character on the new show, and IMO an incredible one. I always felt Kelley Missal was talented, but as is obvious here Frank and Ron really had no interest in her being anything but Starr 2.0. Starr's teen travails, singing interludes, etc. had gotten Frank a youth demo, so he duplicated it with Dani. When she wasn't doing this stuff (or literally taking Starr's place in the High School Musical special episodes) she was basically reduced to Starr's little sister following her around for the last year or so of the show, asking what's wrong and dating her boyfriend the amateur porn star. (Lifer kid Matthew Buchanan was deemed too 'un-hot' for Dani, so Frank made Ron end that teen couple and put her with Plastic Nate, one of Rapin' Ford's two hunky brothers, all introduced together en masse.) Anyway, on OLTL 2.0, they blew all that up and she was one of the best young performers I've seen on soaps since the 90s. But looking back at Starr Jr., oh, it's difficult, like night and day.

Edited September 6, 2015 by jsbt

[TeeVee329]

I'd forgotten all about Rapin' Ford being on the scene!

 

And he, as I recall, tried to step to Dorian* at the party, who rightfully did not want his scuzzy ass anywhere near Langston.  And Lang totally took Ford's side!  UGH!

 

* Why the hell would Dorian have even bothered going to Todd and Tea's Celebrate Our Love party?  I know the reveal about Echo being Rex's mom also happened that night, and Dorian was a part of that story, but...she would never.

And it shows what the writing and creative choices sometimes did to people, because Dani (Kelley Missal) was a shocking revelation on Prospect Park's OLTL - she owned the show almost singlehandedly. The best young heroine I've seen on soaps in a long time.

 

100% agree.  I was shocked how much and how quickly I was into Dani on the reboot, after being pretty much over her once she dumped Matthew for Old Man Nate.  Kelley Missal is a definite talent, I hope we see her in something soon.

Edited September 6, 2015 by TeeVee329

[jsbt]

Why did any of them go? Why are Rex and Kelly there again? Who knows.

 

JPL and Gina Tognoni actually had decent chemistry because they were both incredibly 'busy' onscreen, especially when not given good writing (Gina) or not handled by another strong actor who can center them (JPL). Not to say that Gina isn't good, she was fantastic on GL and is incredible right now on Y&R (I hope they never give Michelle Stafford that role back), but when she doesn't have good material she suffers and leans back on tics and nervous energy. Her last stint on OLTL was, sadly, a disaster. They'd tried to abruptly push her with all their 'hot' male leads when she came on - John and Victor/Todd, when Todd and Kelly had despised each other for years - and then eventually, at this point, were giving up on that for a bit and trying to bring back Joey Buchanan to reheat the tired old embers of the romance they'd had when Nathan Fillion had played Joey in the '90s. It was weak, but IIRC there were some mildly amusing scenes during this where she gets plastered, goes up on the roof of the Palace Hotel and drunk-dials Joey's voicemail in London all night long.

 

Anyway, Rex and Kelly kind of worked well together as a duo because they were both these deeply arrested adolescents. She was an older woman with a young son who had no business hanging around with this young idiot but she did, because as usual with Kelly her whole life was a mess. Romantically it didn't work, so they left it at a kiss and then kept them as friends. It was mildly diverting for me to watch them only because everything else about her return was so bad. (Also, she did end up fucking John later.)

[jsbt]

100% agree.  I was shocked how much and how quickly I was into Dani on the reboot, after being pretty much over her once she dumped Matthew for Old Man Nate.  Kelley Missal is a definite talent, I hope we see her in something soon.

 

It helped that people who were not Frank and Ron were finally going back to Matthew and Dani full speed ahead, and she and the new Matthew, Robert Gorrie, were scorching hot. Their frontburnering turned a number of people off on the new show and I do think the balance of the show got a little off at times, but it was really only two months of episodes and the writers were finding their equilibrium. I thought the triangle/quad with them, Destiny and Corbin Bleu's character had immense potential to run for years and years, especially since during the show's brief run neither Matt nor Dani had yet dared to own up to being anything but friends. It was all about the building tension and Dani's renewed infatuation for the boy whose heart she'd broken when they were kids.

 

Their relationship had always been the road not traveled since she'd rejected him for Plastic Nate during the Frank/Ron years, and it had always hung like a shadow over Matthew's subsequent complicated relationship with Destiny, even back on the ABC show. On the new show he gravitated back to Dani and her wild ways while avoiding his responsibilites to Destiny and his son - it all made sense and the history was there and now that they were grown, it was messy. I was invested in all variations of those young couples, because Destiny was good for Matthew and Dani might have been bad for him, but God, they were hot.

 

Edited September 6, 2015 by jsbt

[TeeVee329]

Their relationship had always been the road not traveled since she'd rejected him for Plastic Nate during the Frank/Ron years, and it had always hung like a shadow over Matthew's subsequent complicated relationship with Destiny, even back on the ABC show. On the new show he gravitated back to Dani and her wild ways while avoiding his responsibilites to Destiny and his son - it all made sense and the history was there and now that they were grown, it was messy. I was invested in all variations of those young couples, because Destiny was good for Matthew and Dani might have been bad for him, but God, they were hot.

 

Yup, I was super into all of this.  And Jeffrey was a good character to fill out the quad.  His friendships with both Matthew and Dani felt real right from the jump and he was the seemingly solid nice guy you'd expect Destiny to gravitate towards after being disappointed by Matthew (while of course, as we know, keeping one whopper of a secret).

 

Even Dani's diversion with Arturo Bandini worked in a dirty, doomed to fail kinda way.  Michelle was the major problem with this set, much too much of her in sadly what was the final stretch, though it was fun watching Dani bitch her out from time to time.

 

It was all so messy and soapy and real, especially coming off the Starr Years with the Quad of Boredom and Starr drinking milk in a bar and dreaming of pop stardom and the Fords hanging over that end of the canvas like locusts.

Edited September 6, 2015 by TeeVee329

[TeeVee329]

Anyway, Rex and Kelly kind of worked well together as a duo because they were both these deeply arrested adolescents. She was an older woman with a young son who had no business hanging around with this young idiot but she did, because as usual with Kelly her whole life was a mess. Romantically it didn't work, so they left it at a kiss and then kept them as friends.

 

They had some okay chemistry and I was amused by how annoyed Gigi was by them because she kept catching them in these awkward situations ("Rex and Kelly!  How can this be if nobody's naked!"), but I'm glad they cut it off where they did.  Of the chem tests Kelly had with the three "male leads", this one was the one I hated the least.

 

But sadly, on the other side of this, was this strange push to pair Cristian and Gigi with her being his teaching assistant during that two second focus on the college as as a source for stories (I still love you, Dean Buffy's Mom!), which culminated in them super grossly making out in Paris and Cris propositioning her and St. Gigi turning him down.  Icky.

[jsbt]

I forgot all about Joyce Summers! Oh, my God.

 

I thought Farah Fath and David Fumero did have some nice chemistry, but the whole thing was so random and unnecessary. It made sense she would gravitate to him while going back to school but it's probably best it never went anywhere real. I thought Gigi propositioned Cristian! Oh, I can't remember. They were both licking their romantic wounds. They were right to not go all the way with both them and Rex/Kelly.

[TeeVee329]

I forgot all about Joyce Summers! Oh, my God.

 

Dean Buffy's Mom was the best.  She humiliated Ford in front of a classroom of students and then fired his ass for violating policy by dating Langston.  It was so awesome!

 

I thought Gigi propositioned Cristian! Oh, I can't remember. They were both licking their romantic wounds.

 

They were in Paris.  Cris was upset because he only saw Layla for a few minutes, she had to leave on a last-minute business trip.  Gigi had let Adrianna get under her skin (though I enjoyed the hell out of Adrianna knocking her down a few pegs), but I don't remember what Rex and Gigi's deal was, they were back together at that point.  Anyway, I don't recall who initiated the kiss, but I do remember Cris was the one who suggested they get a bottle of champagne and a room, ick.

[AndySmith]

And Tina imagines she's Queen of Mendorra! 1989:

 

Here is a hilarious similar scene of Gabrielle "owning" Llanfair:

 

 

Of course, this was probably the ugliest I've seen the main living room at Llanfair. Between the floral walls and random leopard prints on the chairs, yikes!

 

Also, speaking of older women/younger men couplings, Dorian and Joey were definitely the best:

 

 

And of course, the scene where Viki catches them in the moment:

 

Edited September 6, 2015 by AndySmith

[drtslim]

They were in Paris.  Cris was upset because he only saw Layla for a few minutes, she had to leave on a last-minute business trip.  Gigi had let Adrianna get under her skin (though I enjoyed the hell out of Adrianna knocking her down a few pegs), but I don't remember what Rex and Gigi's deal was, they were back together at that point.  Anyway, I don't recall who initiated the kiss, but I do remember Cris was the one who suggested they get a bottle of champagne and a room, ick.

 

Gigi and Rex had just gotten back together and had decided to take things slow (not have sex).  Gigi was annoyed with constantly finding Rex and Kelly with their heads together or in other weird situations and was mad that Rex head told Adriana so much about their relationship (them not having sex).

[jsbt]

They had some okay chemistry and I was amused by how annoyed Gigi was by them because she kept catching them in these awkward situations ("Rex and Kelly!  How can this be if nobody's naked!")

 

One thing Farah Fath was always very good at was the dry humor and delivery thereof, possibly because she has a reputation for being, let's say, somewhat bitchy IRL. Her sarcastic reactions to shit like that consistently cracked me up, and it's one of the reasons I always had a soft spot for Gigi despite her character having been profoundly damaged since her first mostly great year on the show, when she was one of my favorites in 2007-8.

 

There was also the incredibly pointless and stupid summer subplot from earlier that year where Rex, Gigi, Cris and Layla stumbled across that fateful briefcase - I can't remember who it belonged to, maybe Evil Eli - and Rex kept lugging it around, insisting it must have some big secret inside. Finally Rex and Cristian got it open, and Gigi and Layla's simultaneous reaction to its nonexistent contents was an excited cry of "Nothing!" and applause. That almost redeemed the whole thing.

 

I just rewatched that and man, I miss Tika Sumpter. She was so wasted by the show. She's also wasted doing Tyler Perry's show, but at least there she is the lead, and she is an incredible force of nature, a black Erica Kane. She's also doing a lot of other things. She should have gotten so much more on the show but they often didn't know what to do wth her (or most people of color). I also really loved Cris and Layla and Kish as a unit. Even Rex and Gigi worked opposite them, because at the time they weren't expected to be running big story.

Edited September 6, 2015 by jsbt

[TeeVee329]

There was also the incredibly pointless and stupid summer subplot from earlier that year where Rex, Gigi, Cris and Layla stumbled across that fateful briefcase - I can't remember who it belonged to, maybe Evil Eli 

 

Wasn't there some nonsense that summer of teens, Teens, TEENS where Old Man Nate found a bunch of money, possibly in that briefcase, and stole it because Poor Inez couldn't pay the bills or some shit.  And there was some mob guy who came after them and then Starr accidentally shot Crybaby James...or something?  Anyway...

 

I also really loved Cris and Layla and Kish as a unit. Even Rex and Gigi worked opposite them, because at the time they weren't expected to be running big story.

 

Unsurprisingly, Cris and Layla being all buddy-buddy with Rex and Gigi pissed me off because I wanted Kish there for summer shenanigans with Cayla.  I recall Rex and Gigi toasting to Cris and Layla's new jobs right before Tika Sumpter left and I was like, "NO REX AND GIGI ARE NOT THEIR FRIENDS KYLE AND FISH ARE THEIR FRIENDS!!!"  But obviously, I am extremely biased.

 

I also recall that Layla had to semi throw Adrianna under the bus to butter up to Gigi and I wasn't a fan of that either.