Da Vinci's Demons - General Discussion

[Lisin]

Discuss Da Vinci's Demons Here!

[attica]

Elliot Cowan exudes a heady masculinity, my dearie me.

Nice they could mount all those not-heavy-at-all-looking (NOT) brass bowls in about five minutes. Florentine elves, I guess.

[AllAboutMBTV]

Smelt and shape and and cool and carry those massive brass bowls up to the rooftops while the rabble just milled about waiting in the piazza. Eye roll... Oh, well, I don't watch this show because it makes the least bit of sense. I'll own that I just watch it for Tom Riley.

[attica]

Heh. Next thing you know, DaVinci will invent CGI!

[BindsTheTuna]

Oh, well, I don't watch this show because it makes the least bit of sense. I'll own that I just watch it for Tom Riley.

I feel you. When he was telling Lucrezia that he too dreamed of a life where they could be together (paraphrasing) and his eyes filled with tears? My pants fell clean off. 

[ganesh]

I actually was surprised that Riario had sex with the girl. You know in the back of his mind he was thinking of DaVinci ripping his shirt off when he was tied to the tree.

[The Collector]

Leonardo, Amerigo and Zoroaster go to Pisa to steal Prince Alfonso's ship.  Conflict ensues, so Leo invents the submarine, saves the slaves, and sets off for the New World.  Wait, what year is this?

The pope is not the pope, but a doppelganger.

Lorenzo is no longer magnificent, but Lara Pulver is. 

[attica]

I'm liking the little mental competition between Riario and Nico. I think they're both learning from each other.

I have no idea why Leo didn't plant a big smooch on Zo. He almost did; it was clearly a tease to the audience. The real Leo would've. Come on, show!

I think it would be big fun to road-trip with Lorenzo. Shotgun!

[GreyBunny]

I wanted to love this, but it's been known since at least the 3rd century BCE that the earth is round. No one was worried about falling off the edge of the earth by da Vinci's time.  The worries aboard ship that they would kept taking me out of the show.

[atomationage]

I thought the shipboard part of the episode was pretty ridiculous.  Leo has to be ahead of Copernicus? 

I liked how they explained how the wrong guy ended up being pope, and Riario was great in those scenes.

[AlliMo]

I really feel like this show doesn't get nearly enough love. I find it highly entertaining and absorbing.

There was a moment in the cell where I honestly expected DaVinci and Riario to finally just make out already.

[attica]

I'm amusing myself by singing "Vespuccia The Beautiful".

[ganesh]

Would uneducated slaves know the earth was round though? And, it's not like they didn't believe DaVinci, as soon as he explained it, they were like, oh, ok. 

Really, this is 2014, and we've got people in this country, arguably the most advanced in human history, that don't believe in evolution. 

[GreyBunny]

Every time I see Alfonso I laugh and laugh.  The way he carries his two swords makes him look every part the douchebag that he is.

The way the sword hilts stick up, they look like the handles of a handtruck and I keep wishing someone would tip him back and wheel him away.

Edited April 21, 2014 by GreyBunny

[homesickalien]

Well, that was interesting. Lorenzo almost killed Leonardo for sleeping with his mistress. What will he do to his half-brother when he finds out that he sleeps with his wife?

[atomationage]

The natives looked like Incas.  Did they already get to the Pacific side of Vespuccia?  This episode was terribly bloody, with the natives and King Ferrante.  I had to keep looking away. 

Prince Alfonso said that Leonardo gave him a gay vibe when they met. 

Isn't Carlo Lorenzo's uncle?  I thought Cosimo was his grandfather. 

[atomationage]

 

Wait, what year is this?

The Pazzi Conspiracy was in 1478, so it should be soon after that. 

 

The pope is not the pope, but a doppelganger.

Sixtus IV della Rovere had a big personality change from before he was pope to after.

 

Lorenzo is no longer magnificent

I don't think he's gotten Magnifico yet.  His children by Clarice haven't been born yet either.  They had six who survived him, including the future Pope Leo X.

Edited April 22, 2014 by atomationage

[atomationage]

Pazzi means crazy in Italian, but I don't know if  the family is the reason.

[homesickalien]

Isn't Carlo Lorenzo's uncle?  I thought Cosimo was his grandfather. 

You're right, Carlo is Lorenzo's uncle. My mistake. I thougt they're half-brothers because actors are nearly the same age.

Edited April 23, 2014 by homesickalien

[Sonja]

I don't remember why, but I thought the show went off the rails last year, and I'd had enough.

 

 

Same here. The show had initially lost me when they thought they had to bring Dracula into the mix. If they had just stuck with the historical Vlad Tepes without the insinuation of the supernatural I would have been fine with it (the supposed year of death would even have matched, so brownie points for that).

 

I read the Total Film article about season 2 on a flight before the new season started and Tom Riley's rather eloquent pitch (and admission of certain shortcomings of S1) convinced me to try again and I'm glad I did. Good choice there with the casting showrunners, your lead is cleaning up your mess.

 

The new setting is interesting. While the historical facts about the Italian states of that period are known, they can go more or less crazy with what happens in Vespuccia. This ep was also good for my health. It aired on Easter Sunday over here and I suddenly lost the urge to eat more chocolate bunnies...

Edited April 25, 2014 by Sonja

[attica]

I for one am grateful for the working out the various actors did for all the shirtlessness in this episode.

 

Poor horsie.

 

Lots of gore in this week's FX. My favorite was probably the decapitation-by-hanging. Way to commit, there, Ferrante!

[atomationage]

Gore, darkness and rain, and a trip to the future without any TARDIS.   The scenes in Naples didn't interest me.  I don't care about Lorenzo that much.  They confrimed that they are in Macchu Picchu and it is 1478.

Edited April 27, 2014 by atomationage

[ganesh]

So we're calling it Vespuccia? Fine by me. 

 

This episode provided the right proportion of DaVinci in the, uh, Vespiccias, and the plots in Italy for me. I agree, since TPTBs aren't constrained by history with the the Incas, they might as well go wild on it. We know Nico and DaVinci make it out, but that's it.

[atomationage]

Cardinal Riario makes it out too.  He died in 1521

Edited April 27, 2014 by atomationage

[ganesh]

There's no way DaVinci would leave his bf behind.

[GreyBunny]

Blake Ritson was fantastic this episode. My heart broke for Riario - he had to kill the woman he loves to save the man he hates.  

[AlliMo]

There is so, so much sexual chemistry between Leonardo and Riario that I can't even stand it. Every time they get all up in each other's faces, I'm yelling at the screen, "Just make out already!"

[Sonja]

Gore, darkness and rain, and a trip to the future without any TARDIS.   The scenes in Naples didn't interest me.  I don't care about Lorenzo that much.  They confrimed that they are in Macchu Picchu and it is 1478.

 

I didn't care about those scenes too much either, we already knew that Ferrante and his equally unhinged offspring have a stange sense of both entitlement and entertainment. I had to laugh though when Lorenzo shot the horse because this ep was co-written by Matt Fraction who is one of the writers of the new Hawkeye comics. Kudos on Cowan shooting left-handed when his left eye is apparently the dominant one. Most shows would probably have had a right-handed actor shooting right too. Sorry, I'm an acher and there has been some rather creative archery in TV and movies in the last years.

 

Blake Ritson was fantastic this episode. My heart broke for Riario - he had to kill the woman he loves to save the man he hates.  

 

The difference between ruthless Riario killing off the 'guardians' and him with Zita was very nicely done. Of course her death was needed so Riario and Leonardo remained bitter rivals even when having to depend on one another to survive, but I had actually hoped she would stay around for a bit. She brought out another side in him and I like multi-dimensional characters.

 

I liked this ep a lot. I'm glad they are categorising the show as fantasy though because Leonardo being poisoned by a snake, barely holding on to conciousness but at the same time having no performance issues whatsover is actually less believable than him talking to the dead.

[atomationage]

I also thought the poison part of it was ridiculous.  Besides what you said, Sonja, I was surprised that he had the strength to drink the antidote.

[Sonja]

I was surprised that he had the strength to drink the antidote.

 

Well, he did wake up right before that and swallowing is pretty much a reflex, but I guess I'm willing to believe that because if I didn't it would actually occur to me that just seconds before there was something going the other way, so that scene should have been a lot more disgusting than it was. ;-)

Edited April 29, 2014 by Sonja

[ganesh]

On this episode, Lorenzo faces the Kobayahshi Maru, Riaro goes Apocalypse Now on crack, and DaVinci gets super high and fucks a very fit and shapely Aztec princess who is from an advanced civilization we know because she grooms well. 

 

More. Of This. Please. Show. 

 

I actually don't care much for the Italy stuff, but this was a good study into Medici and having the brother come back for both plots was cool. And those scenes in the cornfield were *nuts*. 

 

 

 

My heart broke for Riario - he had to kill the woman he loves to save the man he hates. 

There is so, so much sexual chemistry between Leonardo and Riario that I can't even stand it. Every time they get all up in each other's faces, I'm yelling at the screen, "Just make out already!"

I refuse to believe that Riario loves anyone but DaVinci. TPTBs can tell me what they want, but the actors are totally playing the hoyay. Please. That's what makes a show like this work. Two straight men don't eye fuck one another, shirtless, and then one slaps the other. 

 

I honestly didn't know enough about Riario's woman to care about her much at all. 

 

I do hope Medici can put one over on Naples on his own without any fancy DaVinci magic. I have a feeling this "book of leaves" isn't going to be what we would call a "book."

 

The "dead" stuff was cool too, showing the Mona Lisa and old DaVinci kind of looked like how he's been depicted. The dialogue was sufficiently cryptic, which was expected, but I liked how young DaVinci was all like, "wait, this is a causal loop, and you're there, so..." And the old one was, "ugh. Shut up already."

Edited May 2, 2014 by ganesh

[Sonja]

On this episode, Lorenzo faces the Kobayahshi Maru, Riaro goes Apocalypse Now on crack, and DaVinci gets super high and fucks a very fit and shapely Aztec princess who is from an advanced civilization we know because she grooms well. 

 

They should let you write the promo synopses.

 

More. Of This. Please. Show.

 

Agreed. Telling that the best ep of this season so far was co-written by someone who has never written a screenplay before. They should go for fresh perspectives more often.

 

The "dead" stuff was cool too, showing the Mona Lisa and old DaVinci kind of looked like how he's been depicted. The dialogue was sufficiently cryptic, which was expected, but I liked how young DaVinci was all like, "wait, this is a causal loop, and you're there, so..." And the old one was, "ugh. Shut up already."

 

I cracked up when the Abyssinian went all Freud on Da Vinci, only to earn a 'fuck you' in return. It's great that even in 'philosophical' scenes like this and the one you mentioned, the show never takes itself too seriously.

[ganesh]

This is a classic case of 'know the show you have,' which so many TPTBs just can't seem to do. *coughLostcough* 

 

This is the show. So just go with it. I mean, you basically have a gay bdsm porn with the Duke of Naples and the current ruler of the Florence republic ffs. Who has to shoot a horse to stay alive. Roll the cameras!

 

I can't imagine what the director said for the cornfield scene. "So, uh, we're going strip Riario down and paint him all weird and shit. Then, you have to basically just go primal. We don't have any dialogue per se, so do a whole bunch of grunts and screams and act like you're getting super horny after you kill the other guys."

 

They reeled me in with Blind Dracula On Fire. I was like, "so it's going to be like this now? Ok." 

 

Edited May 2, 2014 by ganesh

[GreyBunny]

I refuse to believe that Riario loves anyone but DaVinci. TPTBs can tell me what they want, but the actors are totally playing the hoyay. Please. That's what makes a show like this work. Two straight men don't eye fuck one another, shirtless, and then one slaps the other.

 

When you put it that way...hey, why not? 

 

We know that the show version of Leo loves men and women and he awesomely isn't ashamed of it and refuses to be defined by it.  If Riario gets on board with that philosophy, life will be good.  Very, very good.  (Is it too much to ask for one rollicking sex scene with them, even if it's just a drug-induced, hallucinated fantasy of either Leo or Riario?)

 

ETA:  I don't like Lucrezia.  She can die any time (unfortunately she'll probably end up being Leo's great love interest of the entire series. Ugh.).  When Riario was grilling her I was really hoping he'd pop her eye out.  

Edited May 3, 2014 by GreyBunny

[ganesh]

Well, we know Riario, DaVinci, and Machiavelli make it back to Italy. Riario's ship is gone, so he's going to need a ride home. They've got all that time at sea. 

[atomationage]

The Vault of Heaven is hard to get into, and it isn't all it's cracked up to be once you get there.

Leo and Riario don't make out yet. 

There's some other story in Istanbul with the sword of Osman, besides some goings on in Florence.

Edited May 4, 2014 by atomationage

[GreyBunny]

I liked that it wasn't just Leo who figured out everything.  Riario and Zo put some pieces together as well; and Nico was the Riario-whisperer.  I also liked that by the end of the episode, Riario and Leo could communicate intention with just a look or a slight head nod.  The beginnings of a grudging bromance.

 

Inca woman got miffed that they entered the vault without her.  Pfffft.  Hey lady, if it was so important for you to go in at the same time, you should have stayed on the retracting bridge with the rest of them and gone with them.  Dummy.

 

I'm getting a kick out of Carlo.  He gets stuff done and doesn't waste time.

 

Lucrezia did...something.  Whatever.  Don't care about her.

Edited May 5, 2014 by GreyBunny

[atomationage]

I don't know why they have to try to do 4 different stories at the same time.  The story with Lucrezia came completely out of the blue for me.  I had no idea what that was about, except vaguely remembering something mentioned about a sword before.  I like the story with Pope not Pope, and the intrigue and sex in Florence, but I have a suspicion that they do these different stories in the same episode this way due to contractual obligations to the actors.   I would rather have them tell one story at a time.

[attica]

Are we sure Inca-lady isn't played by Nicole Scherzinger? I keep waiting for her to taunt Leonardo with a chorus of "Don't cha."

Nico was the Riario-whisperer.

 

Because we need more whispering where Riario is concerned!

 

I did not know Feudal Japan outsourced ninjas to Renaissance Florence. Hm!

[AllAboutMBTV]

This episode strained my last good Credibility Nerve. When Leonardo made that little scuttling contraption of gears and wheels and catapult, all I could think was 1) What pocket did he pull that Erector set from? and 2) I'm sorry, Show, despite Tom Riley and a few others I don't mind inviting into my living room every week, I just can't with this nonsense anymore and deleted the episode mid-watch. Ciao, bello.

[Sonja]

I liked that it wasn't just Leo who figured out everything.  Riario and Zo put some pieces together as well; and Nico was the Riario-whisperer.  I also liked that by the end of the episode, Riario and Leo could communicate intention with just a look or a slight head nod.  The beginnings of a grudging bromance.

 

Nico's 'I missed this part' was great too. Leo's 'huh?' face when Nico talked Riario down was almost as good as the one he pulled when the llama met its end. BTW, how about throwing an object heavier than a five year old in there instead of wasting a llama? Considering it was smashed to mush including the bones and wool, one can not even make an argument for delicious llama tartar vault-style with corn purrée.

 

Inca woman got miffed that they entered the vault without her.  Pfffft.  Hey lady, if it was so important for you to go in at the same time, you should have stayed on the retracting bridge with the rest of them and gone with them.

 

Tz tz tz, bad dreamer! We killed two of your companions, decided marriage was in order even though it was a scam from the start, daddy tried to kill you, I more or less raped you when you were trying not to shuffle off this mortal coil, we made your not-friend kill the woman he loved and would have killed them all if he hadn't succeeded and you dare clear the way for us to just conveniently walk through all disabled traps without waiting for me to enter the final chamber first?!

 

Ima, dear, you might want to get bitten by a snake, seek out the Abyssinian and ask him about entitlement issues as well as self perception/third person perception while you're at it.

 

I still don't care about Carlo and his 'I've been wronged all my life' routine and really hope that the pay-off for the Turkish storyline is so effing good that I forgive the snooze-worthy way there.

 

The station airing the series where I live always repeats the last ep Sundays at 8pm followed by the new one at 9. Watching this one right after the last one highlighted how good episode 6 was.

[GreyBunny]

Nico's 'I missed this part' was great too. Leo's 'huh?' face when Nico talked Riario down was almost as good as the one he pulled when the llama met its end. BTW, how about throwing an object heavier than a five year old in there instead of wasting a llama? Considering it was smashed to mush including the bones and wool, one can not even make an argument for delicious llama tartar vault-style with corn purrée.

 

Yes!  When Nico said that I was all, "I missed it too!"   Tom Riley pulls some fab faces.

Why build an elaborate kiddie kart when all you needed was a long pole?  (Yes, I know, they need to keep showing off Leo's mechanical genius, but really, I can't believe the Inca would be so dumb not to have figured out putting the key thingie on the end of some kind of a pole).

I agree about Ima.  Plus, the actress and Riley have zero chemistry.  When she's on screen she's just a <void>.  I hope Ima gets chucked out that sky cell or whatever that cave was that opened up to thousands of feet above sheer cliffs and empty sky.

Edited May 6, 2014 by GreyBunny

[GreyBunny]

Checking the snake's stripe pattern and, as I suspected, they used a king snake (harmless) to stand in for a coral snake (deadly), which is understandable.  

 

"Red and yellow, kill a fellow,

Red and black, venom lack."

[Sonja]

Why build an elaborate kiddie kart when all you needed was a long pole?  (Yes, I know, they need to keep showing off Leo's mechanical genius, but really, I can't believe the Inca would be so dumb not to have figured out putting the key thingie on the end of some kind of a pole).

 

The whole thing was inconsistent. On one hand, Topa thinks they should just stay out of there which might have explained why no one had built a stable pole yet, on the other hand, the skulls (which were not smashed to bits how exactly?) prove that they did in fact try to get through. So did Topa just indulge Ima and let her send a bunch of children to their deaths to keep her occupied, hoping she would not succeed or is it just sloppy writing?

 

I agree about Ima.  Plus, the actress and Riley have zero chemistry.  When she's on screen she's just a <void>.  I hope Ima gets chucked out that sky cell or whatever that cave was that opened up to thousands of feet above sheer cliffs and empty sky.

 

Her pouting is grating on my nerves and I agree about the lack of chemistry. I would actually prefer her ending up empty-handed and frustrated having lost the book of leaves if I didn't think she would throw a tantrum of sacrificial proportions. Her making a swan dive out of the sky cell (nice one, btw!) trying to catch the Florentines and their Roman escaping by whatever flying means of transport they came up with would however be hilarious. Especially if she had her ceremonial feathers on.

 

I think that they are going to drag them back all the way through the vault though and we are probably going to pick up where the episode 1 teaser left us with the guys about to be sacrificed.

[GreyBunny]

The show's been picked up for a third season.  Yes!  More shirtless Tom and Blake, that's all I ask!

http://tvline.com/2014/05/06/da-vincis-demons-renewed-season-3-starz/

[GreyBunny]

Leo's obsession with finding his mother leads him to no book and no mom, but at least he gets a message from her.  

 

Meanwhile we find out Riario had killed his mother on orders from his father and that's whose grave we saw him visit.

 

Happy Mother's Day, everyone!

 

 

 

 

[Sonja]

That's what happens when I do the laundry when I should be watching TV: was that Topa getting crushed in the doors? Nice work by the foley department in that scene.

 

When they were walking around the vault of heaven and its ante-chambers last week, I assumed Ima had some poor guys stationed on key-holding duty. How did the doors just conveniently stay open for everyone to run back and forth when Leo and Riario initially had to leave Nico and Zoroaster there to hold the keys in position?

 

Dear writers: you might want to check your predictability filters. 'He taught me how to survive' slipped through. This lazy line aside, Nico's character development is interesting this season. I'm curious what they are planning for him. I'm equally curious how this little adventure changed Leo. He can't regress to his old Florence-persona as soon as they are back after having seen so many people die on his quest and still coming home more or less empty handed (I doubt Lorenzo is going to be thrilled about the recording device).

 

When Riario told Leo about killing his own mother he also mentioned the pope was actually his father. Is this common knowledge and the 'nephew' angle just pro forma or should that have been new info for Leo?

 

Leo got the green eyes from his mother apprently ;-P

 

The episode was fine overall, but the Naples storyline is boring me to tears (or laundry). At least we got the flying escape from the vault with bonus realism of harsh landings.

[attica]

Oh, I'm glad we're done with supernatural Vespuccians. Take the gold head back to your workshop and reverse engineer it! That's what I watch the show for!

 

I lost Quon in the fight; I didn't see him get away. I figured he did, though. He's essential for the plot.

 

I was hoping we'd get more equal-opportunity nudity in the Lorenzo/Ippolyta shag scene. This season has been a disappointment on that score.

[Sonja]

I lost Quon in the fight; I didn't see him get away. I figured he did, though. He's essential for the plot.

I didn't see him make his escape either, but he turned up later on a roof signalling (the real) Sixtus with his Sword.

[OakGoblinFly]

When Riario told Leo about killing his own mother he also mentioned the pope was actually his father. Is this common knowledge and the 'nephew' angle just pro forma or should that have been new info for Leo?

 

I took "father" as in "Holy Father and father to us all" who ordered him to kill his mother and not that Sixtus is Riario's actual father - more his spiritual father or perhaps surrogate father.

 

And I can't be the only one who got an Adrien Brody meets Severus Snape vibe from flashback Riario, can I?

Edited May 12, 2014 by OakGoblinFly