Criminal Minds Unpopular Opinions

[Guesswht]

3) I always liked JJ and still do. Please don't kick me off these boards for that one!!!!! 

!!!

 

_________

MGG's acting feels forced to me. (i love him but... Hey! I don't need to explain it, i'm already hated because of my very unpopular opinions, i'm obviously not here to make friends.lol)

The worst seasons of the show are S10 and 6.

I loved Alex Blake and season 9 is one of my fav seasons.

I love 200 and The Forever People.

AJ Cook is a wonderful actress and she's also one of the most beautiful creatures i've ever seen. (i can't believe she's being called a mean faced b**, she has such beautiful, innocent doe eyes, i have no idea how can someone see her as a mean faced b**..whatever..)

I loved (almost) everything about Elle.

I find Gideon "weird" but i didn't hate him, i like Rossi much better though

I'd want to see more JJ episodes and i hope we get to see her emotions about her miscarriage while she's pregnant.. - something i'd wanted to see while Kate carried her beer belly around :p

They wasted way too much time on Kate Callahan and there's no way she had less screen in s10 than JJ had.. oh and i can't stand her and i'm not going to watch s12 if she's coming back. Also: she should've been a serial killer not a profiler.

[BookWoman56]

 

I know it's not at all easy, but a person has to be very flexible if they plan to live with someone the "rest of" their lives.

 

I agree with this observation in general, but to me there's a significant difference in someone transitioning from one profession to another where the difference might be in pay or location, as opposed to switching careers into something that brings the dangers of the job into one's personal life. But I also believe for any relationship to work on a longterm basis, there has to be give and take on both sides. Yet it seems to me that in that marriage, Haley was the one who had to make all the adjustments, dealing with a spouse who was frequently away for several days at a time, who worked excessive hours, and who as noted, chose a new profession that brought messages from psychos to her doorstep. I just don't see evidence that Hotch made any similar compromises for Haley; I can fanwank that he did but the writers didn't show it effectively. But regardless of the reasons Haley had for divorcing Hotch, she was well within her rights to do so. Even if she no longer loved Hotch, which did not seem to be the case, the fact that one person in a relationship no longer feels love for the other person doesn't make that person morally inferior. In the same way that you can't necessarily expect a spouse to have the same job in their mid-30s as they did in their mid-20s, I don't think you can assume that a person's emotions or needs are going to remain the same either. I just get tired of the sentiment (obviously not from you) so often expressed that "Haley divorced Hotch; therefore, bitch." It's interesting to see that kind of reaction from fans and consider that people can get so invested in a fictional character that they perceive anyone who causes that character emotional pain is somehow automatically at fault.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I agree with this observation in general, but to me there's a significant difference in someone transitioning from one profession to another where the difference might be in pay or location, as opposed to switching careers into something that brings the dangers of the job into one's personal life. But I also believe for any relationship to work on a longterm basis, there has to be give and take on both sides. Yet it seems to me that in that marriage, Haley was the one who had to make all the adjustments, dealing with a spouse who was frequently away for several days at a time, who worked excessive hours, and who as noted, chose a new profession that brought messages from psychos to her doorstep. I just don't see evidence that Hotch made any similar compromises for Haley; I can fanwank that he did but the writers didn't show it effectively. But regardless of the reasons Haley had for divorcing Hotch, she was well within her rights to do so. Even if she no longer loved Hotch, which did not seem to be the case, the fact that one person in a relationship no longer feels love for the other person doesn't make that person morally inferior. In the same way that you can't necessarily expect a spouse to have the same job in their mid-30s as they did in their mid-20s, I don't think you can assume that a person's emotions or needs are going to remain the same either. I just get tired of the sentiment (obviously not from you) so often expressed that "Haley divorced Hotch; therefore, bitch." It's interesting to see that kind of reaction from fans and consider that people can get so invested in a fictional character that they perceive anyone who causes that character emotional pain is somehow automatically at fault.

 

Prefacing this by saying that I hate, hate, hate, the TV trope where one person in a marriage realizes that their husband/wife has mostly the same job they did before the marriage, I'm going to try not to let my natural bias affect this post too much.

 

Haley's changed attitude first surfaces in season one's Machismo, because dumbass Gideon calls Hotch on his day off and says there's a case. Yes, its easy to say that Aaron should have declined to come in, or perhaps that Jason shouldn't have called to begin with, but what of Haley passive-aggressively saying, "No, its fine, go ahead and go" instead of telling him that she wants him to stay at home? Fair enough to say that Hotch should have been direct with Gideon and said he was taking a personal day to be with his family, but why should Haley not be just as direct with her husband when, with different writing, it would have actually gotten her what she wanted? Jessica's "You're a hell of a profiler" is chuckle-worthy, but it also implies that Aaron is about as observant as a rock.

 

Moreover, if it isn't as simple as "Haley divorced Hotch so she's a bitch", then IMO it in turn isn't as simple as "Aaron wouldn't give up fieldwork so he's a thoughtless asshole." They'd known each other since high school, and I would hope that they'd discussed whatever future plans they had in mind before Jack was conceived. Having a child is of course a big change, no  matter the career path people are on, but he was a lawyer and then a prosecutor and then an FBI agent and then a profiler, and in all that time it never once occurs to Haley that he isn't going to be home for dinner every night? Forget weirdos coming to the door after dark, just the "normal" hours of such work would be more than a lot of people could handle.

 

I'm sure this sounds like I'm blaming Haley, holding her solely responsible, but I''m not. Aaron tells Reid in Damaged that she wanted to have a non-contested divorce so that neither of them would waste money on lawyers, and Spencer asks him, "You don't want to?" Hotch replies, "What I want I'm not going to get." Looking at it that way, he knew that he wasn't going to concede to Haley's wishes and take a desk job, be a nine-to-five guy that was home every night. But why is it kosher for her to more or less change all the rules one day, apparently without a conversation in there somewhere about how the way things were didn't work for her anymore? A conversation that doesn't involve ultimatums and then him coming home to find that she's packed her bags and taken the kid to her sister's, I mean? Its bad writing.

[JMO]

I've never understood the Haley-hate either.  She married her high school sweetheart, who pursued a career in law.  We're not told if she had a career, but we do know that she had a job when she was in hiding, so maybe.  A career as an attorney, and as a prosecutor, may involve long hours, but it doesn't necessarily mean days of unpredictable travel all over the country.  That means that Hotch's working for the FBI, and for the BAU in particular (as it's portrayed, of course), was a major change in life circumstance for both of them.  While Haley may have found it tolerable before they had a child, she obviously didn't find it tolerable afterwards.  That would make her just like millions of other spouses who hoped having a child would ground their marriage.  For all of my own complaints about bad writing on the show, this isn't it.  It's exactly how real life unfolds for many, many couples. 

 

I didn't feel at all like there wasn't build up to Haley leaving Hotch.  We had snippets of her being unhappy about his being away from home, and understandable disappointment when he forgot about Jack's being evaluated for his unnamed 'condition'.  (That was bad writing, since it remains a mystery.)  Had the writers chosen to give us more scenes like those, there would likely have been complaints of too much focus on home life.  As it was, I thought it was an adequate amount to allow the viewer to read between the lines. 

 

We were given scenes where Hotch seemed conflicted about leaving home, but I don't recall any scenes where he actually chose his family over his work.  (I know, it would be a different show if he stayed home.)  On the receiving end of that, Haley may well have concluded that she was never going to have a family life with Aaron.  She had to decide if it was worth staying together, and she obviously decided it wasn't.  I think it could have realistically gone either way. To me, it didn't feel sudden, or unexpected, or a 'change of the rules'.

 

Bottom line is, I think it was a reasonably well done long story arc, with the kinds of interpersonal conflicts I've seen played out in my own circle of acquaintences.  As is true in life, neither character was entirely right, and neither entirely wrong.

[thewhiteowl]

If you feel someone is baiting you, report, don't respond.

Posters do not get sanctions for a difference of opinion just for how they express it when they disrespect others, usually.  There will be some warns and time outs, take a breath and calm down.

 

Giving a high five to someone for breaking the rules is so not cool.

[smoker]

In the matter of the Hotch/Haley divorce (...)

 

If Haley had married Hotch knowing he was going into a dangerous career that meant he would frequently be away from her and their child, I would have less sympathy for her, even though I firmly believe that either party has a right to bail on a marriage when one or both realizes it’s just not working any more. But it bothers me that now Haley is dead, all of a sudden Hotch seemingly does have more time to spend with Jack than he did previously. What that says to me is that he could have cut back on his crazy hours while they were still married, but chose not to. Again, Hotch was entitled to make the decision he did regarding his career, but I can’t in any way see him as a victim in the divorce issue. He made his choices and those were the consequences; to me, it doesn’t say much for Hotch that Haley had to die for him to make Jack a higher priority in his life.

 

 

I love this subject, I know I've already post things about it but I can't resist add my two cents when there is a chance. 

 

the different perception of storylines and characters (in any show) always amazes me.

 

I can't imagine Hotch being nothing but a workaholic, that means a lot of time away from your family with or without danger.

they had been together since high school, thats a lot of time and a lot of issues if you grow up to become someone really different, I guess the key (at least one of them) is both "landing" in the same page. That didn't happen.

 

If I had to make an autopsy of their marriage I would say fantasy kill it:

-he fell in love with this ethereal creature he watched performing plus The Brooks looked like a happy family, something Hotch wanted to be part of due to his horrible childhood. However, you can love a fantasy from distance but a real woman (person) needs more. 

It would been interesting see Haley's reaction to Hotch news on become an agent of the law and drop a great career as a lawyer. Sadly we only can imagine, my educated guess is they were still young enough and Haley maybe thought Hotch would reach his forties with an amazing 9-5 job. Not getting that turned her in a weeping bitch.

That doesn't mean she was wrong or was a bad person. She was unhappy and when her absence husband was around she broke his balls all the time so he could feel that unhappiness.

-on the other hand we have Haley's fantasy, her mama's marriage. Obviously, Hotch wanted that kind of family too, but he should have became a pet-husband, with a regular job and spending the rest of the time adoring her spoilet brat of a wife. He take his family for granted, that's a huge mistake. If you ask a lot of someone you have to give a lot too.

 

Haley wanted a life incompatible with Hotch's job. Their last argument said it all, the difference between something what you do and something what you are. I'm dont have the privilege of being passionate about my job, but I've met people who are, and they are great at it too. It's another world, they never are tired of it, you only understand if you are in that situation. Moreover, he always wearing a mask because Haley didn't want to know anything about what the job was doing to him and that's exhausting and can turn you in a jerk.

 

At the end, they never met in the middle, and they never looked like they had any intention to work in that.

 

Another point is Jack, I don't think he is spending more time with him, sure he cares more for his schedule knowing he doesn't have the lazy excuse of Jack being better with his mother, but I think it's more about make quality time of every second, about focus like he said to Elle and Rossi. Moreover, Jessica is not a nanny, they are coparenting, period. They do it ok because there is not drama when he arrives home.

 

This is longer than I intended, sorry for any grammar mistakes.

Edited July 7, 2015 by smoker

[smoker]

I've never understood the Haley-hate either.  She married her high school sweetheart, who pursued a career in law.  We're not told if she had a career, but we do know that she had a job when she was in hiding, so maybe.  A career as an attorney, and as a prosecutor, may involve long hours, but it doesn't necessarily mean days of unpredictable travel all over the country.  That means that Hotch's working for the FBI, and for the BAU in particular (as it's portrayed, of course), was a major change in life circumstance for both of them.  While Haley may have found it tolerable before they had a child, she obviously didn't find it tolerable afterwards.  That would make her just like millions of other spouses who hoped having a child would ground their marriage.  For all of my own complaints about bad writing on the show, this isn't it.  It's exactly how real life unfolds for many, many couples. 

 

I didn't feel at all like there wasn't build up to Haley leaving Hotch.  We had snippets of her being unhappy about his being away from home, and understandable disappointment when he forgot about Jack's being evaluated for his unnamed 'condition'.  (That was bad writing, since it remains a mystery.)  Had the writers chosen to give us more scenes like those, there would likely have been complaints of too much focus on home life.  As it was, I thought it was an adequate amount to allow the viewer to read between the lines. 

 

We were given scenes where Hotch seemed conflicted about leaving home, but I don't recall any scenes where he actually chose his family over his work.  (I know, it would be a different show if he stayed home.)  On the receiving end of that, Haley may well have concluded that she was never going to have a family life with Aaron.  She had to decide if it was worth staying together, and she obviously decided it wasn't.  I think it could have realistically gone either way. To me, it didn't feel sudden, or unexpected, or a 'change of the rules'.

 

Bottom line is, I think it was a reasonably well done long story arc, with the kinds of interpersonal conflicts I've seen played out in my own circle of acquaintences.  As is true in life, neither character was entirely right, and neither entirely wrong.

 

the thing surprised me the most is how she lasted that long after he joined the FBI if their marriage was taking a path she didn't want to. Of course it's never one problem and she reached a "break point" but they were together a lot of years after he joined the bureau.

 

well, Haley was never going to have the family life she wanted to, that's for sure. Anyway, you are right, she had to decide if their marriage was still worthwhile, and I think once she made her choice a clean cut was the best way to end things.

 

Edited July 7, 2015 by smoker

[smoker]

as you can see I am more in Hotch team even if I respect Haley pov. However,  I have to say I felt disgusted when they made a disrespectful comment about her leaving Hotch  in the end of the episode Pleasure is my business. It was nobody business.

Edited July 7, 2015 by smoker

[BookWoman56]

I also thought the show did a reasonably good job of depicting Haley becoming increasingly unhappy with the situation; it did not in any way seem to me to be a sudden decision on her part, but instead the logical conclusion of a long period of increasing unhappiness and disillusionment. Hotch did not seem shocked when he realized she had left; it was more like something he'd been expecting to happen, albeit dreading. And I don't think it's as simple as Hotch being an asshole for not being willing to give up his fieldwork. For me, it's more that their storyline is extremely realistic from what I've read about RL profilers. Hotch definitely comes across as a workaholic and while maybe Haley on an intellectual level could admire him for his dedication to tracking down serial killers, on an emotional level it can be the death of a relationship to realize that you are always going to take second place to someone's job. So I don't have an issue with a character agreeing to a spouse taking a dangerous/ demanding job, but after years of the reality of living with the partner's stress and long hours, deciding that he/she just can't deal with it any more.

 

If the show had included additional scenes depicting Haley discussing the issues with Hotch, that might have made more narrative sense. But in real life, I've had an absentee spouse; I've also been the absentee spouse. If one or both of you are working crazy hours and frequently gone for days on end, when one or the other does get home, very often there's just no time or energy left to discuss relationship issues. It's very easy in those circumstances for one spouse to try to have those conversations but eventually just shut down emotionally when those attempts at communication fail.  With Haley, I thought she simply realized over time that things were not going to change. When Hotch was in law school and then a prosector, she could have believed the long hours were more or less temporary. That's a whole different scenario from seeing that the crazy hours are going to be a permanent part of your spouse's life. So I don't really think either of them was entirely to blame, but there's a reason for the high divorce rate among law enforcement personnel. Not everybody can deal with that kind of stress and feeling lonely in a marriage, so it's not surprising to me at all that their marriage failed. It seemed to me that Haley tried to cope with the situation, became resigned to it for a while, and then just became miserable enough that she decided the marriage wasn't viable. I can't see it as a moral failure on her part to have accepted Hotch's decision to make a drastic career change but then eventually to decide that the resulting lack of family time is not acceptable, especially after having a child.

 

Hotch to me has never been a partcularly compelling character, but I can take or leave him. IMO on his best days, TG is adequate in the role and on his worst days, he's just a block of wood. Of course, none of that is helped by the last few seasons, in which it seems that 95% of the time, TG could have been replaced by one of those Disney animatronic devices that would just say, "Wheels up in 30."

[normasm]

 

So for me Haley’s decision to end the marriage doesn’t make her a villain in any way. She wasn’t getting what she needed/wanted out of the relationship and I see no indication that the situation was going to change. From her perspective, Hotch valued his job more than he did her and Jack. And when Foyet tricked her into revealing her location and she realized who he was, I don’t think what would have been going through her mind was that now she realized why Hotch pursued serial killers. I think it’s much more likely she would have been thinking that the combination of her ex-husband’s career and his team’s failure to catch Foyet was going to cost her life and quite possibly the life of their son as well. (FWIW, the phone call during which Haley tells Hotch to let Jack see the less serious side of him makes no damn sense whatsoever; she would have been expecting Foyet to kill Jack as well, even if Jack was hiding.) I realize that it’s very unlikely that a serial killer would target the family of a profiler, but that’s another issue entirely. 

 

If Haley had married Hotch knowing he was going into a dangerous career that meant he would frequently be away from her and their child, I would have less sympathy for her, even though I firmly believe that either party has a right to bail on a marriage when one or both realizes it’s just not working any more. But it bothers me that now Haley is dead, all of a sudden Hotch seemingly does have more time to spend with Jack than he did previously. What that says to me is that he could have cut back on his crazy hours while they were still married, but chose not to. Again, Hotch was entitled to make the decision he did regarding his career, but I can’t in any way see him as a victim in the divorce issue. He made his choices and those were the consequences; to me, it doesn’t say much for Hotch that Haley had to die for him to make Jack a higher priority in his life.

Hayley got one big thing she wanted, and that was Jack. She apparently was comfortable enough with Aaron's high-powered job to take that time after a looooonng marriage to have a child and give up her job, if she had one. Big win for her. I think she did divorce him out of spite, but again, that doesn't make her "the" villain. People in failing marriages are almost always both at fault, and trying to measure who's most at fault is pointless. By this time Hotch's job was all-consuming, not in small part because he felt he was protecting his wife and son from people like Foyet. When Foyet won the battle by killing Hayley and nearly killing Jack, Hotch rethought everything and nearly quit. Yes, he could have cut back on the hours 2 years before, but I think you're being a bit rigid in your thinking to imagine that he could have predicted the future, that he should have known a serial killer would come after his family.

 

And, actually, the thing that made Jack and Hayley the top priority wasn't her death, but the attack on Hotch, when he had to send them into protective custody. At that moment, they both were his top priority, and he would and did anything to protect them from then on. It's just that Foyet was that clever to get around all that armor.

[SSAHotchner]

Hayley got one big thing she wanted, and that was Jack. She apparently was comfortable enough with Aaron's high-powered job to take that time after a looooonng marriage to have a child and give up her job, if she had one. Big win for her. I think she did divorce him out of spite, but again, that doesn't make her "the" villain. People in failing marriages are almost always both at fault, and trying to measure who's most at fault is pointless. By this time Hotch's job was all-consuming, not in small part because he felt he was protecting his wife and son from people like Foyet. When Foyet won the battle by killing Hayley and nearly killing Jack, Hotch rethought everything and nearly quit. Yes, he could have cut back on the hours 2 years before, but I think you're being a bit rigid in your thinking to imagine that he could have predicted the future, that he should have known a serial killer would come after his family.

 

And, actually, the thing that made Jack and Hayley the top priority wasn't her death, but the attack on Hotch, when he had to send them into protective custody. At that moment, they both were his top priority, and he would and did anything to protect them from then on. It's just that Foyet was that clever to get around all that armor.

I'm such a Hotch lover that I turn a blind eye to his shortcomings. But I've always felt that in that moment when Haley realized she was with Foyet and not a US Marshall, it kind of hit her like a ton of bricks how important Aaron's job was. She was face to face with a killer that was going to take her life and her son's, and she knew then what it was to be the victim of a monster. When she said, "Oh, Aaron, I'm so sorry," I thought it was a dual meaning. She was sorry that she fell for Foyet's trap and  didn't phone to check on Aaron and she was sorry for the way she treated him when she left him. I understand what everyone is saying about a marriage where one or both parties are gone a lot, but the romantic in me feels that even if he were only home one night a week or one night a month, I'd still want to be the woman he came home to. 

 

That said, the writing is weak and often forced. I'm sick of Hollywood being unable to write happily married couples or to show a couple successfully work through problems. I know they thought splitting Hotch and Haley up would give them a wealth of material to use in future scripts, and I admit that 100 was a powerful episode (at least the first couple of times I watched it) but I wish they would have shown him being able to keep it together. I do think they strive now to show or mention Hotch spending more time with Jack. I'd much rather see that than see them hook him up with another woman. 

[Droogie]

I hope I'm able to say what I'm thinking in a logical way.

I agree that both Hotch and Haley were at fault in the demise of their marriage. I think they were young when they got together, and each grew in a way the other did not expect. I'm kind of an adherent to the idea of "love needs." Haley's love need, especially after Jack was born, was for Aaron's presence. She didn't care that he was out trying to eradicate evil from the face of the planet; all she knew was that he simply was not there.

Hotch's love need was for respect. He (and many, many men) derives his worth and identity from what he does. His taciturn manner and stoicism hid his emotions from the one person who needed to see them. So he deduced that Haley didn't understand him/what he does (in his mind, the same thing) and so he subsequently became more closed-off and emotionally-unavailable.

I did feel for Haley. My husband is gone a lot with his job, and when the kids were little, it was pretty darn hard a lot of the time. But I also feel for Hotch. To me, Hotch is like an iceberg: most of him is hidden and mysterious. But when he breaks, he does it spectacularly: the behavior in "100" and "Mr. Scratch" illustrates that perfectly.

His perfect control, in my opinion, is a defense mechanism. He didn't cry and grovel for Haley because he simply could not -- to do so would be a loss of that control, and he is terrified of that. This is a fault, to be sure, but it's deeply ingrained. However justified Haley may have been, I do think she ultimately didn't truly know Aaron -- if she did, I think she would've been much more tolerant and forgiving. After all, she did have support and help from her sister; it's not like she was truly a single mother without anyone to help her, or that Aaron wasn't utterly devoted to her. JMHO.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Droogie

[katha]

I thought Haley and Hotch's marriage and divorce was one of the better storylines on this show. It all made perfect sense. That they knew each other since high school and had fallen in love with "unfinished" versions of themselves, then perhaps started to grow in different directions as adults, but kinda, sorta tried to ignore that because they loved each other. But love doesn't solve everything, particularly when two partners want two totally incompatible things from life.  I didn't think there were any villains at all or "sides" to take.

 

But then another UO, I guess. I've never ever seen Hotch as some sort of tortured martyr. He also wasn't somehow treated "badly" in their marriage by Haley that we saw. They had conflicts that got worse and worse as their relationship started to disintegrate, and they both contributed. Yes, Haley made the verbal demands, but Hotch barely ever gave in to any of them. He de-escalated the argument and mollified her, then he didn't cut back on his work anyway.  Rinse. Repeat.

 

I think the episode when Haley leaves is some of the strongest writing ever done on this show. Also very well acted by TG and MM. It shows why that marriage was doomed, why it couldn't be saved. It has Haley's "it's what you do" and Hotch's "It's who I am". Hotch feels that being a profiler is a fundamental part of his identity (and from what we've seen on the show,  I tend to agree with him), Haley doesn't understand that or doesn't want to understand that, because she doesn't like what  his job as a profiler brings into their relationship. By denying that reality, by telling herself for a long time that "it's just for now, he'll change jobs, all will be better" she was able to stay in the marriage even though she was unhappy. Because she loved him and didn't want to give up on that love. But in that episode reality finally hits for her and she leaves.

 

What those scenes also very smartly do is show what would have happened had Hotch taken that White Collar job. The marriage would have been dunzo anyway, just a bit later. Because the prospect of having to take that White Collar job, of Haley not understanding how strongly he feels about being a profiler...that's the first time we see Hotch really lash out at Haley in an argument. He's aiming to wound her with his words and obviously does. And I just think the White Collar job would have meant tables turned: Haley gets what she wants, but Hotch is unhappy and grows progressively more resentful of Haley. The end result is the same: Divorce. Just a bit later.

Edited July 8, 2015 by katha

[normasm]

 

 

I think the episode when Haley leaves is some of the strongest writing ever done on this show. Also very well acted by TG and MM. It shows why that marriage was doomed, why it couldn't be saved. It has Haley's "it's what you do" and Hotch's "It's who I am". Hotch feels that being a profiler is a fundamental part of his identity (and from what we've seen on the show,  I tend to agree with him), Haley doesn't understand that or doesn't want to understand that, because she doesn't like what  his job as a profiler brings into their relationship. By denying that reality, by telling herself for a long time that "it's just for now, he'll change jobs, all will be better" she was able to stay in the marriage even though she was unhappy. Because she loved him and didn't want to give up on that love. But in that episode reality finally hits for her and she leaves.

 

This part, especially!

[amensisterfriend]

I've genuinely loved following this very intelligent and insightful discussion about Hotch, Haley and marriage in general, so please don't take this as the least bit dismissive when I say that my UO is that I'm weirdly indifferent to everything about the Hotch/Haley story and always have been. Maybe the team would profile me as a heartless sociopath ;) I wouldn't have cared one way or the other if Hotch and Haley had remained together and cared just as little when they fell apart. Due to a combination of (under)writing and the acting, I never felt like I had any sense of Haley AT ALL---honestly, she just felt brittle and flat and generic to me, and I had a better sense of some characters we saw for only about five minutes during a single episode throughout the series than I did of her.

 

The one bummer about the way the Hotch/Haley thing ended for me was that it made Hotch just so relentlessly joyless for such a long stretch of the series. I know there's always a debate about whether Hotch is intriguingly deep and layered beneath his stoic exterior or simply 'wooden' and grim and dull (it's such a thin line when depicting intense introverts on screen---we're not privy to their inner thoughts and feelings the way we would be in a novel), but either way "gee, if only they could make Hotch MORE stiff and unhappy!" wasn't high on my list of wishes for his character or the show in general :) 

 

...which is why I still hold the very, very unpopular opinion of liking Beth's presence in S7. Note that I didn't say I liked Beth herself---I'd probably find her a silly twit in real life. :) But after years of finding Hotch more and more 'one note' and depressing, I really loved getting to see Hotch---once one of my very favorite characters---smile and show a wider range of emotions again, regardless of the reason. And Beth actually struck me as a very realistic first post-Haley girlfriend: she's light, cheerful, easy to be with, etc. I can understand why he wasn't looking for a more deep, demanding and intense person/relationship.  Honestly, on a dark and grim show, I found the admittedly goofy scenes of Hotch developing feelings for someone again quite refreshing.

 

And to be even more unpopular here, I always found Hotch/Beth less annoying than Garcia/Kevin, who for some reason I'm always dying to fast forward through despite my aforementioned fondness for BtVS's Xander :)  

[secnarf]

And to be even more unpopular here, I always found Hotch/Beth less annoying than Garcia/Kevin, who for some reason I'm always dying to fast forward through despite my aforementioned fondness for BtVS's Xander :)  

I completely agree with this. I never really minded Beth, and I liked that Hotch was in a relationship and happy.

And I love Xander too, but Kevin isn't Xander.

Kevin is dorky, but not "adorkable" in the same way Xander was. Perhaps that says quite a bit about Nicholas Brendan's acting skills - he can play two similar characters yet make them seem very different from each other - or maybe it's in the writing, or some combination.

Also, Nicholas Brendan has aged quite a bit from Xander, so while for the first episode I was like "wow it's Xander" whenever Kevin came onscreen, now it is like they are two completely different characters, similar to Alyson Hannigan's Willow vs Lily (though AH hasn't aged as much).

Anyways, that's basically a long-winded way of saying that I really don't like Kevin and I don't think my feelings towards the character of Xander have any real influence on my opinion of Kevin. Kevin doesn't even seem to be a well-defined character and I can't really point to anything specific that I don't like about him, just that in general I don't like him, and I have a really hard time picturing him and Garcia together - though I suppose it depends on the "version" of Garcia.

[smoker]

I'm sick of Hollywood being unable to write happily married couples or to show a couple successfully work through problems. I know they thought splitting Hotch and Haley up would give them a wealth of material to use in future scripts, and I admit that 100 was a powerful episode (at least the first couple of times I watched it) but I wish they would have shown him being able to keep it together.

 

 this discussion has been a pleasure to me too!! :0)

I wish I were bilingual and I could explain myself better (and faster! Rambling takes me forever! hehe)

 

I do like 100, I think it's entertaining and powerful due to the performances, but a lot of the plot is resolved thanks to the "Deus ex machina".

 

I'm sure there are more good couples out there, but right now I can't stop thinking about Tamy and Eric Taylor from FNL, they were soooo perfect, even when they were mad at each other they were loving and respectful. 

And I did like Danny and Linda (Blue Bloods), they seemed a real marriage. At least in the begining of the show.

Anyway, I don't want to let the Hotchners alone in their misery, so I'm remembering another troubled couple: Faith Yokas and her husband (Third watch).

 

 I always found Hotch/Beth less annoying than Garcia/Kevin, who for some reason I'm always dying to fast forward through despite my aforementioned fondness for BtVS's Xander :)  

 

I usually have a soft spot for underdogs but I hated Xander, I don't like NB either. Actually, his best episode as Kevin was the very first one, just my opinion, of course. Every time they have brought the character it has been pathetic, it's like a mix of a cartoon and a dormat.

Will and JJ are another horrible couple and Will is so creepy. I have to say I am biased, I didn't like him in Third Watch because the same reason he's weird, being a dormat doesn't help.

Edited July 9, 2015 by smoker

[katha]

Since I'm already here, might as well add other UOs. (-;

 

I didn't mind Hotch and Beth either, it was vaguely plausible and while some of it was cheesy the actors did a decent job selling it. And it showed Hotch living life and putting himself together after trauma and grief which rang true for the character as I read him. Was it stellar execution? Nah, but since that's true for every aspect of the show now...

 

Hotch is my fave character (as you might have guessed LOL) and I agree that the writing for him has suffered as the writing for all the characters has suffered. But IMO compared to about all the others, he's doing all right. TG seems to have a good grasp about what makes him tick, which keeps it coherent. And when the writers don't know what to do with him, they fall back on "looks stern in the background, does boss-like things", which is boring and lazy but for me doesn't do half as much damage as for example some of the things they've done to Morgan, JJ or Reid where they're in the forefront of episodes doing ridiculous OTT stuff that is totally incompatible with what we've learned about them before. And when they do write for him and he's center stage it's usually pretty good and consistent. I mean, sure it was better in the earlier seasons when there were more layers and the team dynamic in general was superior. But I just figure I can't complain too much, compared to what's been done to some of the others. Some of it is probably also natural decline that sets in when a show is on for so long. I've seen it happen on other shows as well.

 

I love Morgan. Always have, always will. And I find some of the clunkers they've written for him absolutely disgusting. Large parts of season 6 was basically a pod person masquerading as Derek Morgan IMO, terrible. And what I wish they brought back more is his role as skeptic. I remember how annoying I found him constantly questioning Gideon's fitness in the early seasons. What do you know? His fears turned out to be warranted. It was a small thing, it didn't take up much screen time, but it was a nice piece of continuity and characterization. I wish TPTB still knew how to do subtle things like that.

 

JJ, the media liason, was one of my favourites. She played a vital role and had a skillset that none of the others possessed. I liked that she was remote and rather cool beneath her politeness, not all female characters need to be warm and nurturing. Am not so fond of JJ, Power Ranger. (-; But I think she still offers good and interesting contributions to the show, which makes the instances where they get it wrong with her that much more aggravating.

 

In the early seasons, writing for him was for the most part really good and MGG did a great job with him, but IMO he did veer into Gary Stu territory at times. This has now shifted to JJ to some degree, who gets the Mary Sue treatment occasionally.

Edited July 9, 2015 by katha

[Cobalt Stargazer]

In the early seasons, writing for him was for the most part really good and MGG did a great job with him, but IMO he did veer into Gary Stu territory at times. This has now shifted to JJ to some degree, who gets the Mary Sue treatment occasionally.

 

When I'm being generous, I can see how it would be difficult to write a character like Reid, who says in the pilot that he has "an IQ of 187, an eidetic memory, and can read 20,000 words per minute." Now that CM has hit and almost cleared the ten year mark, it stands to reason that some of those traits would fall by the wayside a bit, if for no other reason than the writers aren't smart enough themselves to make the character look that smart.

 

When I'm being less generous, it pisses me off that they've not only taken away his smarts, they've made him into this assclown that everyone snickers at. Sometimes behind his back and sometimes to his face, and the to his face part is worse to me since these people have known him (onscreen) for a decade. It would be one thing if the teasing was occasional, or if he would act like he was amused by it, but it isn't and he seldom does. If its all in fun, fine, but then why don't they write him behaving like he finds it humorous?

Edited July 9, 2015 by Cobalt Stargazer

[BookWoman56]

 

When I'm being less generous, it pisses me off that they've not only taken away his smarts, they've made him into this assclown that everyone snickers at.

What bothers me even more than the frequency of those instances is how mean-spirited the teasing/snickering is. There is zero sign of it being affectionate or anything that Reid would respond to in kind. I really, really miss the days when Elle could tell Reid never to go away again and be absolutely dead serious because she wanted/needed him there to help on a case. In the current CM universe, such a remark would be made sarcastically and with much eye-rolling, just to show that nobody needs/wants Reid around.

[amensisterfriend]

More random CM UOs inspired by recent rewatches:

 

I kind of cringe at the famous 'sin to win' line that so many associate with Emily's character. It feels so forced to me and symbolizes the trend towards making her 'edgy' and cool and a semi-party girl with a dark past and all that, when I (unpopularly, it seems!) FAR prefer the dorky, slightly socially awkward Emily we were introduced to in S2, sheltered and a little unsure due to a wealthy but unfulfilling upbringing and so academically/professionally competent but a little personally insecure. That Emily seems to have disappeared as early as S3, replaced by the 'cooler' Emily who's all bad ass and a former goth and parties too hard in Vegas and Atlantic City and all that.  

 

I actually like the generally disliked (disliked by S1-S4 standards!) In Heat. Lord knows why :)

 

I've rambled about this one before, but suffice it to say that I just don't see the huge distinction between Original JJ and JJ 2.0 that most do! I think she was pretty snotty, cold, flat and detached before, and feel pretty much the same way about her now, albeit now with more otherwordly physical combat skills (eye roll) and more screen time.

  

The more I watch,the higher Rossi climbs on my list of favorite CM characters. I can't argue that he's brilliantly developed or even all that well-defined in the first place, but his mere presence tends to make me happy :) 

Edited July 10, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[SSAHotchner]

Amensister, I liked In Heat, too. I actually liked JJ and Will getting together back then. And I loved that everyone knew about them even though she was trying to keep it a secret. I never liked Will's accent, though. Can't remember if I posted this here or on other CM forums, but if you watch the very beginning of Jones when Will and his father are talking on the phone as Hurricane Katrina hits New Orleans, neither one of them is speaking with a southern accent. In fact, they actually sound more like New Yorkers. 

[smoker]

When I'm being generous, I can see how it would be difficult to write a character like Reid, who says in the pilot that he has "an IQ of 187, an eidetic memory, and can read 20,000 words per minute." Now that CM has hit and almost cleared the ten year mark, it stands to reason that some of those traits would fall by the wayside a bit, if for no other reason than the writers aren't smart enough themselves to make the character look that smart.

 

When I'm being less generous, it pisses me off that they've not only taken away his smarts, they've made him into this assclown that everyone snickers at. Sometimes behind his back and sometimes to his face, and the to his face part is worse to me since these people have known him (onscreen) for a decade. It would be one thing if the teasing was occasional, or if he would act like he was amused by it, but it isn't and he seldom does. If its all in fun, fine, but then why don't they write him behaving like he finds it humorous?

 

 

What bothers me even more than the frequency of those instances is how mean-spirited the teasing/snickering is. There is zero sign of it being affectionate or anything that Reid would respond to in kind. I really, really miss the days when Elle could tell Reid never to go away again and be absolutely dead serious because she wanted/needed him there to help on a case. In the current CM universe, such a remark would be made sarcastically and with much eye-rolling, just to show that nobody needs/wants Reid around.

 

not much is needed to give Reid his righteous place

I just rewatched season 4, Zoe's reprise:

Hotch: "Reid, check the computer"

and Reid found a way to put the unsub in jail for life

 

 

[BookWoman56]

I never liked Will's accent, though. Can't remember if I posted this here or on other CM forums, but if you watch the very beginning of Jones when Will and his father are talking on the phone as Hurricane Katrina hits New Orleans, neither one of them is speaking with a southern accent. In fact, they actually sound more like New Yorkers.

SSAHotchner, a New Orleans accent does not sound like a typical so-called southern accent at all, and depending on what part of New Orleans the person is from, it can sound very much like a New York/Brooklyn accent. So the accents there didn't bother me; I remember being surprised that they were not the stereotypical generic southern drawl. Now, the accents for the CM episode set in my hometown in Mississippi did bother me; they were ridiculously overdone. Not everyone who is from the south sounds the same or even has what most people think of as a southern accent.. Thanks to Hollywood,nobody ever guesses where I grew up; they always assume I'm from the midwest precisely because I (and many of the people I grew up with) do not speak with the TV/movie southern accent.

 

 

[missmycat]

Accents are a funny thing. When I speak I do not hear any sort of accent.However thru out the years several people have inquired about mine.Here's the funny part though, I am usually asked if I am from someplace like Boston.I am not. I was born and raised in Illinois.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Amensister, I liked In Heat, too. I actually liked JJ and Will getting together back then. And I loved that everyone knew about them even though she was trying to keep it a secret. I never liked Will's accent, though. Can't remember if I posted this here or on other CM forums, but if you watch the very beginning of Jones when Will and his father are talking on the phone as Hurricane Katrina hits New Orleans, neither one of them is speaking with a southern accent. In fact, they actually sound more like New Yorkers. 

 

 

SSAHotchner, a New Orleans accent does not sound like a typical so-called southern accent at all, and depending on what part of New Orleans the person is from, it can sound very much like a New York/Brooklyn accent. So the accents there didn't bother me; I remember being surprised that they were not the stereotypical generic southern drawl.

 

To add to what BookWoman56 said, depending on what Will's heritage is, and since he's LaMontagne, Junior that would go for his deceased father as well, his accent might be what the show considers Cajun, which has its own patois, and some of its speakers use "dere" instead of "there" and "Where 'yat?" instead of "How are you?" Josh Stewart is from West Virginia, which I didn't know until I looked him up on IMDB, so its possible that some of his regional accent remains, even though he studied drama in New York.

[SSAHotchner]

 

 

 

To add to what BookWoman56 said, depending on what Will's heritage is, and since he's LaMontagne, Junior that would go for his deceased father as well, his accent might be what the show considers Cajun, which has its own patois, and some of its speakers use "dere" instead of "there" and "Where 'yat?" instead of "How are you?" Josh Stewart is from West Virginia, which I didn't know until I looked him up on IMDB, so its possible that some of his regional accent remains, even though he studied drama in New York.

Still, if you listen to that first conversation, Will doesn't sound anything like he does in the rest of the episode. Also, I've lived in SC for 20 years now and have heard all kinds of southern accents. I've also seen plenty of films that were supposed to take place in New Orleans and heard the various accents from that area. I'm serious. Just listen closely to that very first scene. It's so different from the rest of the episode that it made me wonder how that slipped past the director.

[zannej]

I think if they used a real Cajun accent on the show, they would need subtitles for the audience. :P

 

I seem to be late to the party. On the Hotch/Haley thing: I didn't blame Haley, but I thought that the writers just did a disservice to the character. I mean, I know in real life people change their minds on things, but it just didn't seem in-character from what we saw of Haley at first. Of course, after a recent experience watching the love lives of some close friends, I realize that some people can go from nurturing and caring to complete psycho bitch that I want to slap the shit out of in just a few days. And they can stay in that bitch-mode for months and suddenly be nice again. Granted, the person I'm thinking about had a horrible childhood and is completely unstable- so not an example of any norms.

 

I don't know if all law schools give this warning, but when my father started law school, he was told that most marriages don't survive law school or a lawyer job. He thought about what was more important to him: the school or his marriage and he decided to leave law school to improve chances of making his marriage last. He still entered a career in law enforcement that had him working 60+ hours a week though.

 

I fanwank that Hotch knew some of the risks of becoming a lawyer and that he and Haley probably felt that their marriage was strong enough to last through it.

 

We do know from some hints that things changed in the marriage over the years. Rossi mentioned how Hotch would always rush home to see Haley and now he was staying after hours to work. I sometimes wonder if Hotch deliberately avoided Haley because there was so much stress/tension.

 

It did bug me that Haley was all happy and sweet and they seemed so happy when they went to a bar and Haley wanted to know if Hotch was being nice to Prentiss. They really seemed in tune with one another. But then they turned around and quickly had the marriage dissolve.

 

I get that Hotch didn't seem to be willing to compromise-- I think he was so used to doing what he'd been doing for years that he didn't seet he big deal and Haley suddenly wanted change. Meanwhile Haley didn't realize that she was asking too much from him. The catalyst seemed to be Jack. I couldn't help but notice how Hotch seemed more interested in Jack than in Haley sometimes. Almost as if he didn't care about her and only cared about Jack. It seems things were cool before Jack was born because Haley could just go do whatever she wanted while Hotch was at work. Then Jack came along and she didn't have her freedom and she wanted more attention from Hotch. She likely had to deal with the screaming baby all day and Hotch was mostly seeing Jack when it was time to go to bed and he could tuck the kid in. Maybe she expected things to change when they had a kid and they didn't. Or maybe she just didn't anticipate feeling the way she did. I dunno. But I do wish they'd had both of them communicate better with one another. I think both parties were guilty of dismissing the other's feelings.

 

Oh, and I still think its likely that Hotch's job as a prosecutor got him some hate mail and death threats. So, I don't think that part was anything new.

 

It would be interesting if the catalyst for Hotch changing careers turned out to be a case where someone was threatening a prosecutor and acted on it- at which point he realized he wanted to be able to do something about it before it got to trial.

[amensisterfriend]

...Sometimes when I rewatch S1 and S2, which I really, really, REALLY love despite my fondness for JM/Rossi and ambivalence on Mandy Patinkin....*deep breath*...I find Gideon strangely compelling. Like to the point where he's weirdly attractive to me despite/because of how flawed and tangled he is. So now, like Reid and our other profilers, *I* "know what it's like to be afraid of your own mind" :) 

[algebra]

Accents are a funny thing. When I speak I do not hear any sort of accent.However thru out the years several people have inquired about mine.Here's the funny part though, I am usually asked if I am from someplace like Boston.I am not. I was born and raised in Illinois.

I grew up outside of Boston but have been told I have a Midwestern accent.

[algebra]

I don't think too much about a series until I grow tired of it and wonder why I lost interest.

(1) Too many side stories. In the Real World, you leave your personal problems at home.

(2) characters don't grow up. Garcia is how old? Why is she behaving like a teenager? How old is Reid? What is wrong with these people!?

(3) Clearly none of the writers are federal employees. Morgan addresses Garcia as "baby girl." Even if Garcia doesn't mind, no federal supervisor would allow subordinates to address each other that way. I have never heard nicknames used at work. It's a sexual harassment complaint just waiting to happen. While it is acceptable to address coworkers by their first names, that's as familiar as it gets.

[secnarf]

(3) Clearly none of the writers are federal employees. Morgan addresses Garcia as "baby girl." Even if Garcia doesn't mind, no federal supervisor would allow subordinates to address each other that way. I have never heard nicknames used at work. It's a sexual harassment complaint just waiting to happen. While it is acceptable to address coworkers by their first names, that's as familiar as it gets.

I don't work for the federal government, but where I work, people often use weird nicknames. A favourite is "honey-boo". The first time one of my coworkers called me honey-boo, I thought she was nuts. But apparently everybody is "honey-boo", and now I'm totally used to it - though I doubt I'll ever actually address anybody else as such.

 

That said, I definitely agree that the interactions between Garcia and Morgan are totally inappropriate.

[zannej]

My father worked for the federal government and I would often visit his office. They were NOT allowed to use names like "baby girl" and they were certainly not allowed to flirt with one another. There was a really nice guy who was raised to compliment women and my father had to pull him aside and tell him it wasn't appropriate to tell women they had nice shirts or nice hair, etc because there were complaints and it came off as flirting or was perceieved as inapppropriate.

 

In a federal office, they have to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

 

Remember earlier on in the series when Garcia called Hotch honey or sweetheart or something and he told her not to call him that? It was not appropriate for a subordinate to call her married boss a term of affection like that.

 

If the baby girl, chocolate thunder, and other pet names were said only in private and not in front of other people, it might be ok. But if they carry on like that in front of co-workers, the supervisor would have to put a stop to it.

[ForeverAlone]

Absolutely. The start of "The Black Queen" was actually realistic in terms of sexual harassment training in a federal workplace. And then Breen had to go shit on it at the end by having Penelope and Morgan give a giant middle finger to that training and reinforce their inappropriate banter. 

 

And let's not forget the time Penelope said "faster than a Hotch rocket." So, so inappropriate to say to your boss. 

[amensisterfriend]

Here's one: I actually don't mind at all that Elle didn't seem to be friends with JJ or Garcia when she was on the show. In fact, I kind of liked it---and I say this as someone who's usually a big proponent of strong female friendships on TV. It worked for me in this case because it made sense to me that JJ and Elle wouldn't particularly click, especially at first, and one thing that I think S1 arguably did better than any other season IMO is subtly depict distinct intra-team relationships: not everyone was on the same blandly friendly terms and equally close. Some connected more closely and naturally than others...and, for me, that's both more interesting for fictional purposes and true to real life.

 

I get that the show runners are fixated with the 'they're FAMILY!' stuff, but what families do you know where all the members are equally, dully Kumbaya-ish and in the same exact polite harmony?! Families clash, they annoy each other, they disagree about many ethical, personal and sociopolitical issues like the ones the team are confronted with, they know that they wouldn't all ordinarily choose to be friends...but they love and protect each other anyway. That's why S1 actually had the most authentic 'family vibe' to me despite the show runners trying less desperately to sell it and despite--or maybe even because of---the presence of the more flawed and edgier Gideon and Elle. 

 

Just to be clear, I have less than no desire to see a show where everyone is bickering and at each other's throats, but there's something lazy and insincere about the "yay! we all love each other equally and are all close to the exact same degree!" stuff they've done for many seasons now in lieu of bothering to define more of the team's individual relationships. And---

 

---oh, right, I was confessing the UO that it doesn't bother me at all that Elle wasn't shown as being friends with JJ and Garcia during her time on the show. Sorry, I get a tad carried away sometimes :) 

 

Another opinion that I'm not sure is unpopular or just random, but I think S1 has a surprising amount of humor. It's not one of those shows where everyone's quipping and bantering cleverly over dead bodies, of course, but there are some genuinely funny lines and moments that nicely counterbalance the darkness. There are funny lines and moments scattered throughout all the seasons, of course, but parts of S1 seem positively joyful compared to some of the grimness that follows in later seasons :)  (And, yes, I know later seasons have some forced goofiness like that Morgan/Reid "prank war", but...am I the only one who found that really lame and unfunny? Is that another UO?!) 

Edited August 27, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Droogie]

I hated the prank wars. If we never hear of it again, it would be too soon.

I agree about S1. There was affection, but none of it was forced. I wish I trusted the writers now but I'd like to see a little intra-team interaction each episode, that showed a natural, familial vibe that wasn't always lovey-dovey. Like Hotch and Rossi irritating each other with their alpha male-ness. Or Morgan and Reid bristling against each other's teasing, with Morgan really annoyed by Reid's factoids and Reid pissed at Morgan's treating him like a kid. I'd like to see satisfactory resolutions, of course, but I would like more organic interaction, the prevailing theme being that they really did love each other. Because how could they not? They do a job few can do, above and beyond "normal" working hours -- it's natural they would both love each other fiercely and fight each other fiercely.

[ForeverAlone]

I have no issue with the fact that Elle wasn't close to Penelope and JJ. I honestly could not see them being friends anyway. Granted, on paper Reid and Elle would not be good friends, but that relationship worked on screen based on the writing and the acting. The friendship among Emily, JJ and Penelope does feel natural and organic, but Elle just gave off a different vibe. 

 

Criminal Minds can be adept at mixing sly, light humor with the darkness, but I prefer that stuff that does not feel tacked on or schmaltzy. Unfortunately, since Erica took over, we have seen a rise in that sort of interaction, and it feels false to me. I can't buy into the family vibe, because it can feel cheesy. I didn't have a problem with the prank war IN THEORY, but I do have a problem with Reid's payback. It didn't feel like Reid at all. He is brilliant and clever and the best he could come up with was screaming into Morgan's ear? I don't think so. It would have made more sense if it was something clever that Morgan could not have come up with on his own. I mean, based on what we saw, Morgan's contribution to the prank war was far more ingenious than Reid's. 

[Droogie]

MMC, I agree wholeheartedly. I think that's why I hated the prank war. I mean, I know technically, Morgan giving Reid's phone number out and Reid's reaction wouldn't have "flown," although I loved the little "I will crush you," Reid's retaliation was pitiful. He should've done so much better. Maybe if he had, I wouldn't have hated the "prank war" as much.

[zannej]

It would have been funnier if Morgan went to listen to his music and it had been replaced with stuff that he hated.

 

I think Morgan giving away Reid's number was just unprofessional and really out-of-line. IIRC, the writer claimed that because they were visting a high school, he thought the team should regress to high school behavior. But they never had before and that was just not in-character. Morgan would have waited until the case was over to pull pranks. Although I do wish Reid could have said in a whisper "I know where you live".

[zannej]

That's a ridiculous reason, they've been to high schools before and managed to act normal. I disliked like the 'Your mother is a x' part, although I do wonder how that sentence was going to end. It sounded like a word starting with 'D'. 

I was thinking "Dude", "dumbass", or something. The whole "your mother" thing was just... Ugh. So Un-Reidlike. You'd think he would have immediately realized someone gave his number out and asked Garcia if she knew who. But the whole way he behaved was just awful.

[zannej]

Yeah. Reid is not a dumbass and he would have asked how they got the number and then he would have figured out that it was Morgan. And then he could have put all non-team/known numbers on block.

[missmycat]

Breen just wanted to have his little prank war no matter what.That along with the way he wrote Reid in The Forever People makes it hard for me to fathom at times this is the same man who wrote Reid so well in The Uncanny Valley. Now I don't know what the hell happened. Did Janine and Erica have too much bad influence on him.And will it hopefully make a difference for the better now that Janine is no longer there, and that EM is probably going too be busy with the spin off.

[Old Dog]

Sometimes I think that one of the down sides of them all working together so long is that there are times when you don't know if you have Reid and Morgan or Shemar and Matthew!

[JMO]

 

Sometimes I think that one of the down sides of them all working together so long is that there are times when you don't know if you have Reid and Morgan or Shemar and Matthew!

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Old Dog!

[Bookish Jen]

Sometimes I think that one of the down sides of them all working together so long is that there are times when you don't know if you have Reid and Morgan or Shemar and Matthew!

Yep, I adore Matthew and Shemar's bromance. But it doesn't always translate well when you have these two emoting as Reid and Morgan.

 

As for the ladies of the BAU. I can't imagine Elle hanging out with JJ or Garcia either. JJ and Garcia just seem a little too "Buying shoes is so girl power!" I have an idea Elle's idea of girl power is working on behalf of women's causes.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

As for the ladies of the BAU. I can't imagine Elle hanging out with JJ or Garcia either. JJ and Garcia just seem a little too "Buying shoes is so girl power!" I have an idea Elle's idea of girl power is working on behalf of women's causes.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing, Bookish. In my head, clothes shopping would make Elle at best uncomfortable and at worst annoyed, and she would likely own only three or four pairs of shoes tops.

[Bookish Jen]

 

I was thinking the exact same thing, Bookish. In my head, clothes shopping would make Elle at best uncomfortable and at worst annoyed, and she would likely own only three or four pairs of shoes tops.

Yes, despite what Morgan may think, not every woman is obsessed with shoes so I really hated the the ladies love their shoe remark he made to Reid.

[MCatry]

Yes, despite what Morgan may think, not every woman is obsessed with shoes so I really hated the the ladies love their shoe remark he made to Reid.

And this is a specially unsettling stereotype for a set of writers lead by a woman, and another female showrunner.

[zannej]

And this is a specially unsettling stereotype for a set of writers lead by a woman, and another female showrunner.

If I recall, Breen said he included that because he thought of his wife and she sure likes her shoes apparently. I think Reid would be aware of such habits though, since he studies psychology and behavior. He would be aware of some sort of fetish or obsession with collecting shoes. I really don't get the whole shoe thing. I like to look at pictures and stuff, but I don't like shoe shopping and I've had the same shoes for 14 years that I wear regularly.

[missmycat]

And then there is the fact that some of us ladies have more concern about whether or not we can find a damn pair of shoes that will fit us comfortably and won't wear out in less the a year, rather than trying to make a fashion statement. My feet tend to be a bit on the wide side,but if I find a shoe that can accommodate me in that area than it ends up not fitting very well length wise. Thankfully this doesn't happen all the time.But it has happened enough time to make shopping for shoes rather frustrating at times.