S02.E02: Identity

[Actionmage]

Oliver finds out the medicine that is being sent to Glades Memorial is being hijacked by thieves. Without an influx of supplies, the hospital will close. Roy attempts to stop the thieves, but he fails and is arrested by Officer Lance. Oliver gets into a heated battle with China White and her new partner, Ben Turner, AKA the Bronze Tiger, over the supplies. Meanwhile, Laurel makes plans to catch the Arrow, and Thea gives Roy an ultimatum.

 

This was a cool episode, imo, because we got to meet Bronze Tiger, who was not impressed with Our Hero. Other things I enjoyed:

 

*Large & In charge Thea, knowing her limits and laying it out for Roy in clear language.

*Misguided Laurel being large & in charge, working on what she thinks she knows to actually trap him!

*Felicity being large & in charge and quietly telling Oliver to get his own damn cups of coffee!

*China White! (I just love watching Kelly Hu whup  ass in character. I may have something wrong with me, but I'm not caring.)

* Felicity telling Oliver, in essence, to get over himself and to actually notice the people he works with. I loved the whole scene, and I bet if John Diggle didn't sorta love Felicity Smoak before, that is what won him over.

*The car flip when Roy was distracting China White's men; that was a great stunt! The air the car got and the triple spin were fantastic!

 

Things that weren't awful, but we saw pop up:

*The first "know X like I know my name", thanks Slade.

*The freaking hosin (?); if Thea got it back, where is it now? Did she take it to Nanda Parbat (almost wrote Panda!)? Is the writing on it The Cure for Mirikuru? So many questions!

*Alderman Sebastian Blood, a.k.a. Brother Blood; too bad he wasn't allowed to make Blood as creepy and honestly scary as  Brother Blood was in the comics (a charismatic church/cult leader who uses blood rites and has access to demons.)

 

Knowing now what's coming, I can't take Laurel seriously with her pontificating about The Arrow and what a menace he (supposedly) is.  Especially knowing the "I know you like I know my own name" speech is comin'. ::shudders::

 

It is a shame that there is seemingly no attempt to write in a good gang v. gang story so we can see more Kelly Hu and Suicide Squad. (In case you forgot, or couldn't see through the really dark darkness, Michael Jai White? Hawt! More Ben turner, please?!)

 

Aw, season 2- so bittersweet.

[BkWurm1]

The car flip when Roy was distracting China White's men; that was a great

stunt! The air the car got and the triple spin were fantastic!

Agreed, though the car itself was a little confusing.  It looks like it is the same red Mustang he was driving at the end of the season but not only did he total it in this episode, he also said good thing it wasn't his car.  So.....he stole it or borrowed it from Thea???

 

Knowing now what's coming, I can't take Laurel seriously with her pontificating about The Arrow and what a menace he (supposedly) is.  Especially knowing the "I know you like I know my own name" speech is comin'. ::shudders::

This sooooo much.  She comes off even worse on the rewatch.  It kind of felt like Laurel was responsible for the police not paying any attention to the real crimes being committed.  I did love it when Felicity gave Oliver the smack down when he jumped down Dig's throat for invoking Laurel's name.  Actually kind loved how mad Felicity was all episode long and then at the end when Oliver was feeling down she quietly brought him a cup of coffee.  Such a nice touch. 

*Large & In charge Thea, knowing her limits and laying it out for Roy in clear language.

Thea was open with what she could and couldn't handle and I know it could have come off as hardened but I though it was just incredibly honest.  She stopped trying to control Roy but she could control what she did with her life and it was very refreshing and empowering that Thea wasn't going to be the one waiting around helplessly.  It really is a message that should be shared more often.

 

*Brother Blood.  What the hell was his plan anyway???????

 

DId anyone else feel reaaaaaal bad for those delivery truck drivers?  Most specifically the one that Oliver saved only to be told "Make your delivery!" and get a knife in his throat.  There was soooo much wrong with the set up of those FEMA Trucks being hijacked.  For one, why always at night in creepy back lots?  What no security guards or police?  After the 2nd or 3rd time the drivers were murdered, wouldn't it be hard to get replacements?  And the biggest WTF, FEMA is a Federally operated program.  It would not take more than one attack before army tanks would roll out beside them.   I shake my head. 

It's as bad as Oliver losing all his money. 

 

*Something I thought was very interesting in the flashbacks.  Slade tells Oliver not to get to close to Shado because she's a distraction and distractions are what are going to get him killed.  I just wonder how this was supposed to play into what comes later.

Edited June 5, 2014 by BkWurm1

[tv echo]

Why did they have to make China White look so much like the Black Canary with the blond wig and black leather outfit?

 

That's another thing - why do female superheroes/villains always have long flowing hair?  It's so impractical and dangerous.  The hair would just get in your eyes when you're fighting, and your opponent could easily grab your hair to disable you.

[ohjoy]

In addition to Felicity's awesome smackdown 'tude all episode (even when she finally felt bad for Oliver & brought him coffee she still said that was the only time that was going to happen), I loved how Diggle had the best lines in this episode. Between "my secret identity is his black driver" and "it weirds me out to no end the way you refer to yourself in the third person," he was really bringing the humor in those truth bombs.

[statsgirl]

Diggle was great, and a good contrast to Oliver and his crusade.  Yeah, it will be easy to find a new problem, it's the Glades.

 

It's interesting going back to watch this episode after having seen the rest of the season. I don't mind so much that Felicity becames Oliver's PA because it meant that we got to see more of her (although the idea that it was a step up professionally for her is still ridiculous).  But that dress at the office was too tight, and not in a good way.

 

"Which suit will you be wearing tonight?"  Season 2 in a nutshell.

 

I liked Felicity tackling Oliver over being insensitive to Diggle's break-up (Diggle being stoic and not wanting to tell Oliver because he has enough on his plate was such a guy thing) and even more that Oliver regretted not being there for Diggle when it happened.  At one point Oliver touched Diggle on the arm and I thought hey!, it's not just Felicity he holds on to.

 

Thea was really awesome, especially when you compare her to last season. The shot at the end where Roy is telling her he won't go out again hunting and then the camera pans to the red arrow in his back pocket was nice.

 

Blood was ..... a typical politician. Which is to say he was more about scoring points than actually helping people.

 

Since it was FEMA trucks that were being hijacked, I would have thought that a federal government agency would have been trying to catch the guys.

 

It was kind of creepy how Slade was watching Oliver and Shado through the trees, but a nice set-up for the end of the season.

 

 

That's another thing - why do female superheroes/villains always have long flowing hair?  It's so impractical and dangerous.  The hair would just get in your eyes when you're fighting, and your opponent could easily grab your hair to disable you.

Grrr!  That just drives me crazy.  It's probably all about appealing to the young male audience but so impractical.  Even worse when it's a wig because how is it going to stay on while you're doing all that fighting?  Putting long hair into a pony tail is even worse, it just gives the opposition something to grab on to. See Rochev, Isabel.

Edited June 5, 2014 by statsgirl

[Starfish35]

It's not totally a female issue (although it is 99% of the time). I think I read somewhere that Sebastian Stan has talked about how hard it was filming his Winter Soldier scenes with his hair whipping around in his eyes. And when I recently watched Desolation of Smaug I couldn't help but remember the discussions on the topic with all the elves' long hair swishing around during the battles. And Adrian Paul had long hair for most of his run on Highlander (though he usually kept it tied back). I think it's just more about having a certain character look that's considered more important that what's realistic.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Starfish35

[writersblock51]

It wasn't until re-watching this ep that I realized how much China White and Sara's Canary look alike from a short distance. Huh...

 

I liked much of this episode - Diggle's humor was a key point for my enjoyment (knowing what happens, i was able to watch it differently this time).  I'm a bit disappointed that his humor seems to have been pushed back, along with much of his dialogue.

 

Thea was great in this episode - definitely nice to see how much she'd matured.

[MsSchadenfreude]

"It could be worse.  My secret identity is his black driver."  This is one of my all time favorite lines on this show…ever.  The deadpan way David Ramsey delivers that line makes me crack up every single time.

 

I loved that this episode Oliver gets a smack upside the head (figuratively) that's it not all about him.

[Actionmage]

The thing about Thea in this episode that has me a bit sad is that by the end of the season, she sees herself as weak and easily pushed around, yet in the last two episodes Thea was not just the boss, but a Bawse!  Owning her mixed feelings about her mom in the face of armed goons and her potential death, taking charge of her heart (Moira and Roy), running an apparently thriving business in the freaking Glades, getting really honest with Moira and Moira accepting it ( which makes Slade's act even more heinous in hindsight to me-- I loved the rocky love between Moira and Thea!), and more to come.

 

Another bit I loved was that the show allowed John Diggle to continue to be able to hold his own against China White. It would have been easy for the show to just slip into Showcase The Star Only, but after Dig coming to Ollie and Laurel's aid last season, it was nice that the show remembered that little nugget as well. Yes, Ollie managed a mostly unnoticed knife-toss, but Diggle bought him the time while actually doing his stated job of bodyguard and surprising an international criminal!

 

I remember the massive and collective disbelief those of us on TWoP had re: unguarded FEMA trucks! We just could not understand why the writing posited the situation in that particular way. It still makes no sense, it adds to the pile of good story-telling thrown away for no reason, yet I sorta can forgive it for the China White and Bronze Tiger fights. There could still have been a more rational/logical way to get them into town, but I enjoyed those two appearances.

 

As for the hair thing, until the Suits In Charge get over what they perceive short hair on a woman means, I'm afraid that the women are going to have long, loose hair or pony tails. Even The Hulk got his proper name back in The Avengers, so it is possible. (Geeky trivia: TV's Hulk was named David Banner because in the 70s, TV suits felt that Bruce was too gay a name for their lead character.)

 

I have been popping popcorn and enjoying the show as much as I did the first time through, warts and all.  I'm excited for more Canary in the next few episodes!

[writersblock51]

 

As for the hair thing, until the Suits In Charge get over what they perceive short hair on a woman means, I'm afraid that the women are going to have long, loose hair or pony tails. Even The Hulk got his proper name back in The Avengers, so it is possible. (Geeky trivia: TV's Hulk was named David Banner because in the 70s, TV suits felt that Bruce was too gay a name for their lead character.)

 

I agree 100% about why the long, flowing hair thing for women is still a 'thing' for comics.  I loved that Black Widow in the Avengers and Cap2 had shorter, manageable hair.  Made complete sense to me. 

 

I had no idea about the Bruce/David Banner thing.  Wow.  Considering David Banner on TV was written  & acted as a male who liked the company of women (when he wasn't distracted by all kinds of other stuff and turning angry) it shows how 'showing' isn't always as important as we think it is.

[ohjoy]

(Geeky trivia: TV's Hulk was named David Banner because in the 70s, TV suits felt that Bruce was too gay a name for their lead character.)

Did this have anything at all to do with the '60s TV Batman starring Adam West? Because beyond the extreme cheese factor of that show (which my mother loved), I have no idea how they came to that conclusion.

Edited June 6, 2014 by RandomMe

[Actionmage]

RandomMe, all I know about the Batman tv show is that to avoid the spectre of The Love That Dare Not Speak It's Name (and potential pedophilia charges), we were given Aunt Harriet, a relative of Richard's. Three men can't live together without a it being about se- oh, hi, Odd Couple and Chico and the Man and New Girl!

 

But as far as the inane examples of  homophobia, a character's name as to be one of the dumbest. Then again, this was the network that tried to give us Spider-Man, but his "webbing" was rope! (I remember being so dismayed at how crappy the webs were.) I'll try to see if there are other examples of gay panic naming.

 

Which to bring this to a place more on point (before I derail things), part of why I love this show is because it tries to bring us the fantastic while maintaining a relatively coherent reality. That while Oliver is a billionaire vigilante, he gets called on his shit by his partners in vigilance, his family name has been wrecked, his family life continues to be not what he thought it was, and very scary and serious folks want to kill Oliver on a weekly basis. Very much the stuff that folks reacted to positively when Spider-Man came on the scene in the 60s ( as opposed to the relatively angst-free lives DC's heroes seemed to have.) Unfortunately, Oliver seems able to give any Marvel screen hero a run for their angst. (One thing I hope we get in Season 3? A periodic break in the relentless gloom we got from Season 2!)

[statsgirl]

Maybe the long hair is also about maintaining the image of femininity while being all physical.  She can kick his ass and she's a trained assassin, but she's still a real girl.

 

I thought of this thread last night while I was listening to a PRI report on the new Lego female scientist figures.  Now that they're out, there are complaints that the figures are too stocky, and that their hair is in a bun. The scientist being interviewed in the radio retorted that she's a chemist, long hair would interfere with her work so she has to tie it up and then when she's off work, she can let it down and be sexy.  

 

If you want to see what the figures look like:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2014/06/04/lego-to-produce-female-scientist-minifigure-set/

 

Sexier, earlier females legos

http://shop.lego.com/en-US/Olivia-s-Invention-Workshop-3933

http://shop.lego.com/en-US/Heartlake-Vet-3188

(I'm on a laptop and the link feature doesn't work properly.)

 

 

The thing about Thea in this episode that has me a bit sad is that by the end of the season, she sees herself as weak and easily pushed around, yet in the last two episodes Thea was not just the boss, but a Bawse!

It is kind of sad that she loses that, although not entirely because she's still tell Malcolm he's a murdering psychopath to his face.  But poor kid got a lot thrown at her in the second half of the season -- Roy broke up with her and later tried to choke her; Slade kidnapped her, held her for a day and then told her that Malcolm was her real father; she saw her mother murdered in front of her and found out that everyone she cared about, her mother, her father, her brother and her boyfried, had all lied to her.  Even Walter because he knew who her real father was. It's reasonable that she would see herself as easily pushed around after that.

 

It is in this show that you have to be broken down before you can be made stronger ... it happened to Oliver, to Sara, to Slade, to Diggle, to Quentin, and to Laurel with her addiction arc.  So presumably Thea is going to get stronger after this.

[tv echo]

I know it's just a TV show, and a sci-fi fantasy tv show at that - but when I'm watching a good show, I get absorbed into that show's reality.  So stuff that bothers me - like wondering about the hair thing - distract me and take me out of that reality.  I mean, even Wonder Woman had a tiara to keep her hair off her face.  Lara Croft was sexy and kept her long hair back in a braid.  If Black Canary is going to take the time to stuff her real hair under a blonde wig anyway, wouldn't it be easier just to tie her own hair back into a braid of some kind?

 

I have the same problem with a lot of cop, lawyer and doctor tv shows where the female coroner or female surgeon is dissecting a cadaver or operating on a patient and her long hair is just hanging, loose and unbound, over the body.  Hair sheds.  Long hair sheds even worse.  On The X-Files, I liked that Scully always put her hair in a cap when she did her autopsies.

 

Sorry for the rant - just one of those pet peeves I have.

Edited June 8, 2014 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

Long hair over corpses or cadavers, or over chemical tests pulls me out of a scene. So do ridiculously high heels that impede walking and hurt after half an hour.  One thing I always appreciated about Sara was that she wore shoes she could actually fight in.

[BkWurm1]

If Black Canary is going to take the time to stuff her real hair under a blonde wig anyway, wouldn't it be easier just to tie her own hair back into a braid of some kind?

 

I thought perhaps the wig was so the bad guys would grab it and then she'd slip away.  Still a bad idea since her regular hair is right there beneath it but it was all I could come up with.  Maybe it's some kind of badass game she plays where she purposely gives herself a weakness?

[Actionmage]

Well, in the comics with original Dinah, Dinah was a brunette, so the blonde wig was to throw bad guys and cops off her civilian self. (In the beginning, Black Canary was, like Our Ollie, considered a vigilante and the cops and the crooks wanted to take her down.) So, the show lets us down on a good reason for a blonde to wear a blonde wig. Or having Sara be brunette and then dye it while with the League of Assassins, to fit with her codename.

[BkWurm1]

Rewatched since there is nothing good on TV.

 

It struck me again that the worst job in all of Starling/Star City is driver.  Delivery trucks, armored cars, limo's, semi's.  They all are the first to die.  It's safer to be a cop or even a security guard than a driver. 

[tv echo]

202 (Identity) – Oliver Queen’s voiceover intro:
Oliver (voiceover): "My name is Oliver Queen. After five years on a hellish island, I have come home with only one goal-- to save my city. But to do so, I can't be the killer I once was. To honor my friend's memory, I must be someone else. I must be something else."

202 (Identity) – Oliver makes Felicity his Executive Assistant over her objection:
Felicity: “I quit.”
Oliver: “No, you don't.”
Felicity: “Yes, I do. Not my old job in the I.T. Department, but my new job as your executive assistant – which you think I'm going to accept. Your thinking could not be more wrong in this matter.”
Oliver: “I need a Girl Wednesday.” 
Felicity: “It's… Friday, and the answer is 'no'!”
Oliver: “These computers have been upgraded. Far more processing power than your typical secretary.”
Felicity: “Did you know I went to M.I.T.? Guess what I majored in? Hint - not the secretarial arts.”
Oliver: “Felicity! We all need to have secret identities now. If I'm going to be Oliver Queen, C.E.O., then I can't very well travel down 18 floors every time you and I need to discuss how we spend our nights.” 
Felicity: “And I love spending the night with you – 3, 2, 1... I worked very hard to get where I am, and it wasn't so I can fetch you coffee.”
Diggle: “Well, it could be worse. My secret identity is his black driver.” 
*  *  *
Felicity: “Oh! May I get you a cup of coffee?”
Oliver: “You're not actually offering to get me a cup of coffee, are you?”
Felicity: “Yeah, nope. That won't be happening. Ever!”
Oliver: “Well, if you can bring yourself to do it, can you please make reservations for Dig, Carly and I, Saturday night at Table Salt?”
Felicity: “Sure! I'll get right on that. Using the Internet – which you also happen to have access to.”

202 (Identity) – In a flashback scene on Lian Yu, Oliver has sex with Shado after saving her life by killing someone:
(Oliver and Shado are standing in the lake near the banks washing.)
Shado: "You saved my life."
Oliver: "That's what I keep telling myself. That I killed that guy because he was going to kill you. But what if that's not the reason? It just feels like this island - it's turning me into something terrible."
Shado (gently washing Oliver's forehead with water): "No island, no place, can make you something you're not."
Oliver: "So I've always been a killer?"
Shado: "Everyone has a demon inside of them. The 'dao de jing' recognizes the yin and the yang. Opposing forces inside all of us. The darkness and the light. The killer and the hero."
(Oliver kisses her. They remove their shirts. They resume kissing and it's implied they then have sex.)

202 (Identity) – Felicity gets more work done in the Arrowcave than at Queen Consolidated:
Felicity: "Never thought I'd say this, but I'm actually getting more done down in the basement of an abandoned steel factory than in the corner office of a high rise."
Oliver: "What do you have?"
Felicity: "FEMA is shipping 100,000 units of medical grade opiates to Glades Memorial."
Oliver: "When? 
Oliver: "Truck is scheduled to leave the FEMA depot in 20 minutes."
Diggle: "Not if this motorcycle gang has anything to say about it." 
Oliver: "Bad luck for them. I have something to say about it."

202 (Identity) – Felicity defends Diggle and drops some ‘truth tea’ on Oliver:
(Oliver is stitching up a wound on his ankle.)
Felicity: “Does it hurt?” 
Oliver: “Not as much as some things.” 
Felicity: “I love that we live in a city where the police are more interested in catching you than the drug-stealing mobsters. Our tax dollars at work.” 
Diggle: “The authorities have always gone after the Vigilante.” 
Oliver: “This time was different.” 
Diggle: “Why, because this time it's Laurel leading the charge?”
Oliver: “Because they got in my way. I can't make things better as Oliver Queen, and now I can't make things better as the Vigilante. So what if Laurel's involved?!”
Felicity: “Hey! Go easy on him.”
Diggle: “It's all right, Felicity.” 
Felicity: “No, it's not. You don't get to jump down his throat just because you happen to be having a lousy week. Okay, you're pissed he invoked the almighty Laurel. Well, you're not the only one whose love life is taking it on the chin!”
Oliver: “Felicity, what are you talking about?” 
Felicity: “I'm talking about, you keep bringing up Carly but you're so involved with yourself that you don't even realize the look he gets every time you do.”
Oliver: “What is she talking about?”
Diggle: “Me and Carly pulling the pin. It happened when you were gone. Truth is, it's been happening for a while now.”
Felicity: “Being the Vigilante's wingman was a strain. (To Diggle) He needs to hear this.” 
Diggle: “This wasn't just about what we were doing, Oliver. This isn't just about you, man. I couldn't separate what's going on with me and Carly, and what went on with my brother.”
Oliver: “Deadshot.”
Diggle: “He's still out there. My brother's killer. Still breathing. And I, uh, guess I couldn't hate him and love her at the same time. See? You are not the only one having trouble reconciling two sides of himself.”
(Diggle leaves, Oliver turns to Felicity.)
Oliver (softly): "Felici -" (Felicity storms off.)

202 (Identity) – Felicity refuses to fetch coffee for Oliver:
Felicity: “Your 4:00 is here. Although I'm not entirely sure why you invited him up to your office.”
Oliver: “Because I need to fix this situation, and there are no cameras or people to throw things at me in here. (Sebastian Blood enters) Alderman. Thank you for coming.”
Blood: “Mr. Queen. This is some view. How small the rest of us must all look from up here.”
Oliver: “Ms. Smoak. Would you get my guest and I some coffee?” 
Felicity: “You know, I would, Mr. Queen, but it seems that someone’s broken our coffeemaker. Violently.”

202 (Identity) - DELETED SCENE: Ben Turner AKA Bronze Tiger expresses his frustration to China White:
China White: "Feeling unsatisfied?"
Bronze Tiger: "I came here because you said he was a hunter. That he'd give me something I'd always wanted. A challenge. But your hooded man ran from the police like a purse snatcher, not a killer."
China White: "Don't underestimate him. I did that once. With the Archer dead and my drug trade being supplied by the government's own drug shipments, the Triad will control Starling City."
Bronze Tiger: "Couldn't care less about your little power trip. Just want to gut him."
China White: "There's no reason we can't both get satisfaction."
(She strips him of his weapons and he carries her to the bed.)

202 (Identity) – Oliver has to make a choice between attending the charity benefit event that he suggested to Alderman Blood or acting as the Vigilante:
Oliver: "We're late." 
Diggle: "The good news is, at least you get to make a dramatic entrance."
Oliver: "Oh, I'm just lucky Oliver Queen has a reputation for not showing up on time."
Diggle: "You know, I've been meaning to tell you, it really weirds me out to no end the way you refer to yourself in the third person like that."
(Cell phone beeps.)
Oliver: "It's Felicity. (On phone) Tell me."
Felicity (on phone): "I've got good news and bad news. I hacked into FEMA's server - yet another federal offense, thank you very much - and was able to find out when the next shipment of pharmaceuticals is taking place." 
Oliver: "When?"
Felicity (on phone): "That's the bad news. Five minutes ago. I know this is the definition of sucky timing, but which suit are you planning on wearing tonight?"

202 (Identity) – After Oliver is bad-mouthed in on the news for failing to show up at his own charity benefit, Felicity gets him a cup of coffee:
(Felicity enters Oliver’s office and puts cup of coffee on his desk.)
Felicity: “One.” 
(Oliver watches her as she leaves.)

Edited June 15, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I believe this deleted scene is from 202...

Arrow - Bronze Tiger Deleted Scene
Real Michael Jai White   Jun. 14, 2020

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by tv echo

[lemotomato]

Paige's episode gif thread:

 

[tv echo]

Another 202 deleted scene...

Arrow 2x02 Deleted Scene - Thea goes to see Laurel

(Hermandat)