S12.E03: The Procreation Calculation

[proserpina65]

2 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Will and Grace were going to have a child together, and then Grace met Leo.

Grace did have a baby with her ex-husband in the original finale, according to recaps of that episode.

[Nordly Beaumont]

10 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

I know on the Bob Newhart Show  he was very opposed to introducing a baby onto the show but at some point they did write Emily as pregnant.  But by the start of the next season it was dropped completely with IIRC no explanation.  

Bob had a dream that both Emily and Carol were pregnant.

[Sarah 103]

11 hours ago, Katy M said:

I feel like the couples on The Honeymooners, Green Acres and Newhart were really too old to have children at the beginning of their shows.  So, maybe pre-series they talked aobut it and decided not to have children, or there were fertility problems.  Will & Grace weren't married, or romantically involved.  I Dream of Jeannie was a different species, so procreation may not even have been possible.

I'm just quoting my own response from earlier in the thread because it's easier.

On 10/6/2018 at 5:47 PM, Sarah 103 said:

When I was watching The Honeymooners in college, in one episode they say how long they had been married for and with my roommate's help was able to do the math. (I am horrible at math). Ralph and Alice married during the Great Depression and may have decided to wait to have children until they were in a better situation financially (it's before the pill but there were other methods and they could have been lucky). World War II kept them apart for a number of years.  Ralph and Alice may have wanted children, but between the Depression and WWII, by the time they were ready to have children, she would have been too old and adoption was much more difficult and less accepted in that era than it is today.

[shapeshifter]

On October 6, 2018 at 4:47 PM, Sarah 103 said:

Ralph and Alice may have wanted children, but between the Depression and WWII, by the time they were ready to have children, she would have been too old and adoption was much more difficult and less accepted in that era than it is today.

Actually, adoption was easier before the advent of effective birth control and legal abortion, and also increased with the acceptance of adopting outside of the couple's ethnicity, peaking just after the time of The Honeymooners (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Scoop_Era ). My aunt and uncle—not particularly wealthy and with no diplomas beyond high school—had very little time to wait to adopt 2 children in the 1960s after my aunt had several misscarriages. Then, when my aunt and uncle were still in their 30s, my aunt did give birth to a healthy baby, and joked about the looks she would get pushing a stroller with 2 toddlers holding on.

Back to Penny and Leonard: Anything can and might happen. Stay tuned, folks!

[CherryAmes]

12 hours ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

Bob had a dream that both Emily and Carol were pregnant.

Wow I have always remembered this as Emily really being pregnant!  Thanks!

[Yeah No]

On 10/6/2018 at 11:08 AM, Miss Dee said:

Raj is a straight guy whose personality hits a lot of stereotypical "feminine" traits. It makes sense that a compatible woman for him would hit a lot of "masculine" traits in contrast, and that might be precisely what he needs. Aside from his money mismanagement - and obviously she'd be a great help there if he's willing to be guided by her in that - most of Raj being an asshole is when he tries to be a typical "guy" in relationships, because that's not natural to him. Admitting that he rather likes being "feminine" and owning it in his love life might be the growth catalyst he needs, and Anu could be the reason that happens.

Wow, that's not only my thought but you put it much better than I could have, thanks.  I saw this because my own parents had that same dynamic, which was very out of the ordinary back in their day.  As soon as I saw Anu in action I knew she was perfect for Raj!  Let's just say that life with my parents was never boring, and it worked for them.  The similarities between the two couples are already striking, including the way Anu spoke to the waiter, LOL.  My Dad was the sentimental sop, my mother the great manager of all things.  Too bad we only have this season to see how their relationship plays out.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the show doesn't mess this one up!

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

Wow, that's not only my thought but you put it much better than I could have, thanks.  I saw this because my own parents had that same dynamic, which was very out of the ordinary back in their day.  As soon as I saw Anu in action I knew she was perfect for Raj!  Let's just say that life with my parents was never boring, and it worked for them.  The similarities between the two couples are already striking, including the way Anu spoke to the waiter, LOL.  My Dad was the sentimental sop, my mother the great manager of all things.  Too bad we only have this season to see how their relationship plays out.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the show doesn't mess this one up!

I never thought about my parents' gender fluidity, but my mom was the sports fan (not my dad), and my dad taught me how to sew. He also took over the kitchen in his 50s (and lived to be 91). This reminds me of Raj doing some sort of crafts with the "girls." If the show went on longer, I could picture Raj staying home with the baby, doing astronomy at night when Anu was home.

A lot of posts upthread mentioned that Anu was rude to the waiter. I didn't notice.
The closed captioning transcript just has:
[Anu]: Excuse me. Can we please get sparkling instead of tap, some clean silverware and find out what they're having? That looks delicious.
[Waiter]: Yes, ma'am.
[Anu]: Thank you.
Was there something in her attitude? Because "Excuse me" and "thank you" don't read as rude to me.

[Yeah No]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I never thought about my parents' gender fluidity, but my mom was the sports fan (not my dad), and my dad taught me how to sew. He also took over the kitchen in his 50s (and lived to be 91). This reminds me of Raj doing some sort of crafts with the "girls." If the show went on longer, I could picture Raj staying home with the baby, doing astronomy at night when Anu was home.

A lot of posts upthread mentioned that Anu was rude to the waiter. I didn't notice.
The closed captioning transcript just has:
[Anu]: Excuse me. Can we please get sparkling instead of tap, some clean silverware and find out what they're having? That looks delicious.
[Waiter]: Yes, ma'am.
[Anu]: Thank you.
Was there something in her attitude? Because "Excuse me" and "thank you" don't read as rude to me.

I agree, I don't think she was rude to the waiter.  I liked the word "strident", that worked for me.

My mom was the sports fan too (not Dad).  Although he was a career Army captain so there was some gender fluidity.  My mother was the seamstress and cook (due to her upbringing but she also was very good at both), but in all other ways was not a typical woman of her time.  She was a sergeant in the Women's Army Corps.  She worked in the corporate world full time in the '60s and made more money than my father (which was not easy to do for a woman back then).  I hope the show spends some time developing Raj and Anu's relationship to let us see how they work it out.  Theirs may just be the most interesting and healthy relationship of all the couples on this show by the end of the series!  We can only hope the show goes down that road.  We have all been so down on Raj for so long but he may have been the "sleeper" character of the entire series.  I know I have been on his side since day one, though.  I can be quoted several pages back saying over and over that all he needed was to meet the right woman and everything in his life would fall into place.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Yeah No

[nilyank]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

 

A lot of posts upthread mentioned that Anu was rude to the waiter. I didn't notice.
The closed captioning transcript just has:
[Anu]: Excuse me. Can we please get sparkling instead of tap, some clean silverware and find out what they're having? That looks delicious.
[Waiter]: Yes, ma'am.
[Anu]: Thank you.
Was there something in her attitude? Because "Excuse me" and "thank you" don't read as rude to me.

She asked for two specific items and asked a question about food. None of that seemed unreasonable. And she didn't make any more demand or requests after the meal was served.

Sheldon has been as demanding if not more at ever single meall.

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, nilyank said:

She asked for two specific items and asked a question about food. None of that seemed unreasonable. And she didn't make any more demand or requests after the meal was served.

Sheldon has been as demanding if not more at ever single meall.

I didn't really think she was rude.  More commanding and she knew what she wanted. But, she was more or less polite about it.  However, we should probably have a higher bar than Sheldon:)

[CherryAmes]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

I didn't really think she was rude.  More commanding and she knew what she wanted. But, she was more or less polite about it.  However, we should probably have a higher bar than Sheldon:)

They do talk about how she is in hotel management so they may have been trying to show that she has high standards.  If that was what they wanted to do they failed.  On a Chuck Lorre show commanding is not a nice trait in a woman I I predict we're going to see this aspect of her character ramped up in upcoming season.  And yeah, saying she's not as bad as Sheldon is not a defense I'd want someone to make on my behalf!!

[Sarah 103]

On 10/10/2018 at 7:21 AM, shapeshifter said:

Actually, adoption was easier before the advent of effective birth control and legal abortion, and also increased with the acceptance of adopting outside of the couple's ethnicity, peaking just after the time of The Honeymooners (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Scoop_Era ). My aunt and uncle—not particularly wealthy and with no diplomas beyond high school—had very little time to wait to adopt 2 children in the 1960s after my aunt had several misscarriages. Then, when my aunt and uncle were still in their 30s, my aunt did give birth to a healthy baby, and joked about the looks she would get pushing a stroller with 2 toddlers holding on.

Adoption laws and rules started to change in the early 1960s. In the 1950s agencies were incredibly picky. The child had to match the parents in terms of nationality and appearance before the agency would place the child with the parents. Also, agencies were reluctant to place children with older parents or less affluent parents. All of this changed during the 1960s, well after Ralph and Alice would have been adopting.