Law & Order: Hate Crimes - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

Discuss Law & Order: Hate Crimes Here!

[Aethera]

Hey all, as we spin up discussion for this show, I want to make sure we handle sensitive topics appropriately, and remember the rules in here. Please remember that even more so than SVU, there are going to be polarizing topics here, and that politics is likely to be a subject of or adjacent to this show.

Remember: Political discussion not related to the direct events of the episode is not allowed.

If there's a politician character on the show, you can discuss what he/she says, but you can't use it as a jumping off point to other discussions.  No "well as we've learned with the current Trump presidency, snarky snark snark" or "well as we saw with Obama and the Clintons, snarkity snark" type posts will be tolerated. 

As always, remember to treat each other with respect, and we'll all be fine. Also, snark about the actors and characters on the show, and their looks, acting abilities, clothing, whatever, is all fair game. 

[shapeshifter]

From Vanity Fair:

QUOTE

. . . Co-creator and Law & Order honcho Dick Wolf seems to believe that his new show has what it takes to make a positive and lasting impact. “As with all of my crime shows, I want to depict what’s really going on in our cities and shine a light on the wide-ranging victims and show that justice can prevail,” Wolf told Variety. “Twenty years ago when S.V.U. began, very few people felt comfortable coming forward and reporting these crimes, but when you bring the stories into people’s living rooms . . . a real dialogue can begin. That’s what I hope we can do with this new show in a world where hate crimes have reached an egregious level.”

Wolf could be right: a 2015 study indicated that Law & Order: S.V.U.positively educated viewers about rape—something that was not true of other procedurals, such as CBS’s C.S.I. . . . Whether Hate Crimes can have the same kind of net-positive effect, of course, remains to be seen.

I never knew that Wolf intended to create content that had a social impact.

Edited September 15, 2018 by shapeshifter

[WendyCR72]

I wonder how the beginning narration will go for this one? But, come to think of it, did L&O: Los Angeles even get one? I don't think that barely had theme music.

The Mothership, SVU, CI, and Trial By Jury did, though. So we'll see! I'm curious about the dumbest stuff, I know.

[shapeshifter]

7 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I wonder how the beginning narration will go for this one? But, come to think of it, did L&O: Los Angeles even get one? I don't think that barely had theme music.

The Mothership, SVU, CI, and Trial By Jury did, though. So we'll see! I'm curious about the dumbest stuff, I know.

Oh, I will probably watch the premiere just to see if they use the Cha-Chung. LOL

[paigow]

VO: In the criminal justice system there is a lot of fucked up shit..rapists, pedophiles, serial killers..they are all in jail now...but a new group of Hate Criminals and those that pursue them has emerged...These are their stories...

[atlantaloves]

when does this new show start?

[WendyCR72]

On 9/15/2018 at 9:59 AM, paigow said:

VO: In the criminal justice system there is a lot of fucked up shit..rapists, pedophiles, serial killers..they are all in jail now...but a new group of Hate Criminals and those that pursue them has emerged...These are their stories...

Perfect!

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

when does this new show start?

As of this TVline article (dated September 4) "An exact premiere date — or even a time frame — is not yet known."
Does "time frame" in this case mean year and season?

This September 10 Backstage article states "There will be a little bit more law and order this coming year," but I don't know if "this coming year" is just the writer taking poetic license, but, regardless, I suppose "this coming year" could mean any time between now and December 2019.

[WendyCR72]

The show is now delayed "indefinitely". Wolf claims he wants to get it "right", but it doesn't inspire me with confidence that it'll see the light of day anytime soon.

[wknt3]

Another article which gives a little more cause for optimism and provides some more clues as to what the issues might be, I found it interesting that there have been some offers to actors, but nobody has been cast yet. I speculated on the SVU forum that it might be a negotiating ploy on NBC's part tied to that show's renewal, but it is just as plausible that they are having a hard time casting it, given that Wolf has a history of clashes with the networks over choosing actors and the trend has been to more and more network micromanagement of the casting process. Also he has a lot of shows on the air at the moment so he might be running low on actors who fit the Venn diagram of those he likes and trusts, those willing to work for what he pays, and those who the suits will sign off on.

[wknt3]

This has been posted in the SVU forum already, but I thought it was worth posting over here so we could discuss the story as opposed to how it might effect the current series,

https://tvline.com/2020/06/05/law-order-hate-crimes-spinoff-peacock-streaming-service-language/

https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2547664/why-law-and-orders-next-spinoff-will-need-to-bypass-nbc-for-streaming

[wknt3]

On 6/5/2020 at 2:07 PM, Xeliou66 said:

L&O Hate Crimes is simply a terrible idea - every episode would be a boatload of political propaganda worse than anything seen on SVU now, and it would be extremely unrealistic as well - the truth is, violent hate crimes are rare, most hate crime incidents are stuff like vandalism or a minor altercation, violent hate crimes such as murder and rape that require serious investigation are rare. It would just be exploitative politically charged unrealistic dreck, and it would be canceled after half a season IMO. I hope it never happens. 

I honestly feel like Dick Wolf and company are just watering down the legacy of the franchise with what they are doing - between pushing the idiotic Hate Crimes spinoff, the new show with Stabler and trying to keep SVU going as long as possible, they are just sacrificing quality for trying to make money and cash in on the brand, and I’m not happy about it. 

The truth is the EVERY single series in the franchise misrepresents the prevalence of different types of crimes. If the mothership can focus on the more "interesting" types of murders and most viewers feel that SVU was a much better series when it was more focused on the more violent and statistically rarer types of sexually based offenses, why hold this series to a different standard? I have no problem with not having faith in Dick Wolf's current staff, but to say that there are not enough headlines to rip from sadly just isn't true. A lot depends on the execution - I would hope they would learn from their past failures and successes that the series that work are the ones that are distinct and the ones that fail are the ones that don't differentiate themselves enough from the other iterations. I personally would hope that they don't feel the need to make every crime violent and try to achieve dramatic tension by showing the detectives trying to solve cases before any violence occurs or from the fact that no matter what happens nobody will like the answers they find. If they do there is certainly enough material out there for a decent run without delving into graffiti.
 

On 6/5/2020 at 5:23 PM, WendyCR72 said:

I am of two minds here. Considering the climate, perhaps this does need to be made - with the "real" language and all - to shine a spotlight. On the other hand, it can also glorify such behavior, which is absolutely NOT the way to go, especially now. Sigh.

But with Warren Leight at the helm here, too? So not hopeful for ANY needed nuance. So, if he is the show runner? Kill this spinoff NOW.

As I mentioned before my biggest worry is not nuance. Leight has shown he can handle social issues with depth and sensitivity before and I would expect that the instructions from Wolf and the network would be for more nuance rather than to push a particular view which has been the case in his SVU tenure. My fear is that he will indulge his penchant for soapiness and give every character family issues (one from a MAGA family, one with a black Jewish transgender sibling who is an activist constantly battling 1PP, one with a dying parent, etc.) that constantly derail the episodes.

[Xeliou66]

51 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

The truth is the EVERY single series in the franchise misrepresents the prevalence of different types of crimes. If the mothership can focus on the more "interesting" types of murders and most viewers feel that SVU was a much better series when it was more focused on the more violent and statistically rarer types of sexually based offenses, why hold this series to a different standard? I have no problem with not having faith in Dick Wolf's current staff, but to say that there are not enough headlines to rip from sadly just isn't true. A lot depends on the execution - I would hope they would learn from their past failures and successes that the series that work are the ones that are distinct and the ones that fail are the ones that don't differentiate themselves enough from the other iterations. I personally would hope that they don't feel the need to make every crime violent and try to achieve dramatic tension by showing the detectives trying to solve cases before any violence occurs or from the fact that no matter what happens nobody will like the answers they find. If they do there is certainly enough material out there for a decent run without delving into graffiti.
 

As I mentioned before my biggest worry is not nuance. Leight has shown he can handle social issues with depth and sensitivity before and I would expect that the instructions from Wolf and the network would be for more nuance rather than to push a particular view which has been the case in his SVU tenure. My fear is that he will indulge his penchant for soapiness and give every character family issues (one from a MAGA family, one with a black Jewish transgender sibling who is an activist constantly battling 1PP, one with a dying parent, etc.) that constantly derail the episodes.

I feel like it’s different with this show because violent hate crimes are exceptionally rare, there are plenty of murders and sexual offenses, there are very few violent hate crimes. This show’s sole purpose would be to distort reality to promote a political agenda, and I find that pathetic. There are simply not enough violent hate crimes to make a show about it. 

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I feel like it’s different with this show because violent hate crimes are exceptionally rare, there are plenty of murders and sexual offenses, there are very few violent hate crimes. This show’s sole purpose would be to distort reality to promote a political agenda, and I find that pathetic. There are simply not enough violent hate crimes to make a show about it. 

https://www.asisonline.org/security-management-magazine/articles/2020/02/violent-hate-crimes-reach-16-year-high-in-united-states/

[wknt3]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I feel like it’s different with this show because violent hate crimes are exceptionally rare, there are plenty of murders and sexual offenses, there are very few violent hate crimes. This show’s sole purpose would be to distort reality to promote a political agenda, and I find that pathetic. There are simply not enough violent hate crimes to make a show about it. 

 

8 hours ago, kieyra said:

https://www.asisonline.org/security-management-magazine/articles/2020/02/violent-hate-crimes-reach-16-year-high-in-united-states/

Thanks for that cite! And let me clarify my earlier point. There are plenty of murders and sexual offenses - there are very few wealthy and famous people murdered, and violent sexual serial offenders are rare yet we accept that one unit in NYC sees an entire nation's worth each year because it allows for good stories that explore vital social issues. It is my fervent hope that if this series makes it to air that it will explore both "violent" and "non-violent" hate crimes. I want to see cyber stalking and vandalism and the emotional impact on victims as well as assaults, arson, etc. I do not want them to feel compelled to have a murder or assault every episode. Tell good stories about the full spectrum of hate and bias and I will watch and defend the writers against critics who are upset that it doesn't reflect their perception of reality, no matter what their particular motivation. If you don't tell good stories about all types of these crimes the rest doesn't really matter.

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

It is my fervent hope that if this series makes it to air that it will explore both "violent" and "non-violent" hate crimes. I want to see cyber stalking and vandalism and the emotional impact on victims as well as assaults, arson, etc.

Couldn't agree more... Maybe exposing folks who still can only see bigotry and racism through the extremes of cross burning or beatings and not the more insidious routes of exclusion and victim blaming... Let's hope our wish is fulfilled 

[Cotypubby]

Did this show ever happen? It came up in my search when I was looking for the “Law and Order: Organized Crime” forum and I had never heard of this title before!

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

Did this show ever happen? It came up in my search when I was looking for the “Law and Order: Organized Crime” forum and I had never heard of this title before!

 

No, but it was never canceled officially, either. Still, it's been years now. Maybe COVID played a role in the limbo it has now, but problems with this were common from word go. And, if I recall, I think this was supposed to be on NBC but then I thought I recalled seeing that it was being booted to Peacock.

I'll be super surprised if it ever comes to fruition.

[wknt3]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

 

No, but it was never canceled officially, either. Still, it's been years now. Maybe COVID played a role in the limbo it has now, but problems with this were common from word go. And, if I recall, I think this was supposed to be on NBC but then I thought I recalled seeing that it was being booted to Peacock.

I'll be super surprised if it ever comes to fruition.

Personally I think there's a decent chance it becomes the flagship original drama series for Peacock if OC continues to do well in the ratings and SVU continues to bleed viewers. It becomes a way to keep Dick Wolf relatively happy and keep around some of the BTS folks to see if he can come up with something else, and they can see if an original series brings in new subscribers. If OC tanks then there's probably no chance. I'm kind of hoping it does move forward since it will mean Mariska will be busy filming crossover appearances and SVU will let the rest of the cast actually have entire plots!