OUAT vs. Other Fairy Tales: Compare & Contrast

[Writing Wrongs]

I'm looking forward to seeing Pan on Friday. I know it's been getting some bad reviews, but I'm sure I'll like it well enough.

[Curio]

The only reason I'd see the new Pan is to watch Hugh Jackman ham it up on screen. I just can't get on board with the casting for Hook and Tiger Lily, though.

[HoodlumSheep]

It looks more like something I'll probably rent. We only go to the theaters about twice a year nowadays (it's just too expensive). and this year's movies are locked up with The Good Dinosaur and Star Wars.

Pan's Neverland looks very pretty and creative (far more creative than the Neverland we got). Hugh will probably be the best thing about it.

[Dianthus]

'The Martian' isn't fairy tale, but it's an excellent movie and I highly recommend it.

[HoodlumSheep]

An extremely small update on one of the 5 zillion upcoming live-action Disney movies:

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/10/09/disney-cruella-devil-spinoff?hootPostID=db78e01b75e465e3d56583129bb25ee5

Edited October 9, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[KingOfHearts]

Ick. I hope they don't attempt to make us sympathize with Cruella. I liked her better in OUAT when she was just a flat out psycho.

[Camera One]

I was rewatching the "A Whole New World" scene from Aladdin with the anniversary of the movie, and they visit a lot of other realms from Ancient Greece to Ancient China.  I was imagining if Aladdin and Jasmine's carpet ride was interrupted when they got stranded in the Enchanted Forest.  Aladdin would have been in the process of lying to Jasmine, who is hungry to see more of the world.  

[Dianthus]

Not sure where to post this, really... It's Scarecrow Festival time in my area, and they have a Beauty and the Beast group, a Red-riding Hood group, Ariel and some of her friends, Genie from Aladdin, Peter Pan, and Tinkerbell all on display as part of it.

[Spartan Girl]

I was rewatching the "A Whole New World" scene from Aladdin with the anniversary of the movie, and they visit a lot of other realms from Ancient Greece to Ancient China.  I was imagining if Aladdin and Jasmine's carpet ride was interrupted when they got stranded in the Enchanted Forest.  Aladdin would have been in the process of lying to Jasmine, who is hungry to see more of the world.

Ooh that would be a good way to tie them in. However, as much as I am DYING for them to do Aladdin and Jasmine, I'm scared that they would mess them up.

[HoodlumSheep]

I don't want them touching Jafar. He was awesomely evil in Wonderland and he actually achieved his goal (before being promptly defeated), which is more than you can say about the villains on Once. They'd probably try to make him sympathetic or would dumb him down. They've already ruined Will. He's my favorite villain after Cora.

I do want to see Aladdin and Jasmine, so I'm a bit torn.

Did anyone go see Pan? I've heard that the reviews aren't very good and it was big box office flop.

Still twiddling my thumbs waiting for Wonderland to be on netflix or dvd.

Edited October 18, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Dianthus]

I haven't seen Pan, nor do I particularly want to do so, but the review I read was not positive. Evidently there's a scene of Blackbeard (Hugh Jackman) giving someone or something a thumbs-down, and it's being used by a lot of reviewers re: the movie itself.

[Writing Wrongs]

Pan wasn't that good. I don't know what else to say about it really. The scenery was nice, I guess.

[Camera One]

Sometimes, I wonder how different a show Once would be if it were on say AMC or a network like that.

 

 

Well Jennifer Morrison sure as hell wouldn't be the lead. That would be Josh Dallas.

One thing I love about this show is it has lots of female roles, they're perfectly capable of saving themselves. I'm not sure that would happen on another network. It sure as hell never happens on cable.

 

In which case we would be seeing a whole lot more of Josh Dallas in more ways than one.

 

That's ironic since cable shows are supposed to be edgier.  There have been female driven shows like "Orange is the New Black" or "Nurse Jackie".  Not that I've watched either of those.

[Curio]

For those who have been keeping up with Quantico, who is the bigger Mary Sue at the moment: Regina Mills or Alex Parrish?

[Serena]

For those who have been keeping up with Quantico, who is the bigger Mary Sue at the moment: Regina Mills or Alex Parrish?

Regina is a huge Mary Sue, but she started decent (as a character, not a person). Alex, however, has been insufferably Mary Sue-ish since episode 2, where she was the only person EVER in FBI history to figure out that, when the FBI tells you "We're doing a training exercise, try to figure out those clues", the REAL solution was to be like "But those clues are fake, so I'm not gonna do anything instead.". That was when I turned it off because I just couldn't anymore. Regina took A LOT more episodes to annoy me as much!

[Curio]

I think a big thing for me is how the writers perceive the characters. I haven't been following the Quantico writers' interviews as much as I follow Adam & Eddy, but I get the sense that they're purposely making Alex this awesome FBI agent/perfect lead character/super hero, so I at least know going in that I should expect that and can hand wave some of those Mary Sue qualities. But with Regina, like you said, she didn't start out that way, but I know this show's writing team doesn't think of her as a huge Mary Sue now, and for some reason that bugs me a lot more. 

[Shanna Marie]

Regina is more of a Victim Sue than an uber-competent Mary Sue. It's not that she's the best-ever at everything. It's that she's the emotional focus of everything -- it's all about how she feels, even for the other characters. She does occasionally get handed victories, but they're treated like miracles, not her being super-competent in general. Her Mary Sueness is that her pain is the worst of all pain, ever, and even the other characters who suffered great pain at her hands act like her pain trumps theirs.

 

I don't watch Quantico, but I usually don't mind the main character of a show that's essentially competence porn to begin with (any kind of elite training center, elite level of operation group, etc.) being the most competent and gifted of all the other competent and gifted people. That's part of the premise.

[Serena]

I don't watch Quantico, but I usually don't mind the main character of a show that's essentially competence porn to begin with (any kind of elite training center, elite level of operation group, etc.) being the most competent and gifted of all the other competent and gifted people. That's part of the premise.

I think this depends on the show, and maybe partly on the actor. Quantico has a lot of writing (and acting) failings all around that make that portrayal especially annoying. In other shows, I don't mind it. Like, I don't mind that House is the one who will have the right diagnosis and Olivia Pope will be the one with the right PR strategy, when the writers actually show why they're the smartest. The Quantico example was egregious because, instead of having Alex actually figure out the clues of her exercise, she went "those clues are fake because this is a training exercise, therefore the right solution is not to do anything!" and that was supposed to be smart, instead of something a 6th grader would say because he didn't want to do homework.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Serena

[KAOS Agent]

Sounds like she went the Veronica Mars route and just Googled the answer. But V was being a dick in that scenario and was kind of shown as that, even if we were supposed to giggle over how she got one over on the TA. The point of the exercise is to use the clues to investigate and hopefully learn something in the process. It's not about coming to the correct conclusion. That's what both Veronica and Alex missed out on by being smart asses. It's never good when a show paints a character as too smart to be bothered with actually doing something that they could learn from. If the FBI thinks that Alex is so awesome because she decided it was all fake without doing any work, they aren't painting the FBI in a good light. At least on Once, no character is painted as being oh so smart about something because they usually just stumble (literally!) across the solution and fix their problems that way. No learning is necessary.

Edited October 28, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Shanna Marie]

That sounds to me like a case of writers trying to write a character who's smarter than they are, and writing the way they think smart people think without actually getting it.

[HoodlumSheep]

10 second teaser for "Through the Looking Glass."

https://twitter.com/disneystudios/status/660835496793280514

Another:

https://twitter.com/disneystudios/status/661226447785201664

A 3rd one:

https://twitter.com/disneystudios/status/661588670781063168

Edited November 3, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Faemonic]

Sherman Alexi wrote a protest against people who protest that Young Adult literature is too violent or gory, because as a young adult he himself had essentially lived the life that nobody wanted to talk about, and literature could have been a voice for that.

 

Earlier in this thread, there was a link to an essay about people who retell fairy tales getting caught up in the Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis pattern of Western thought, particularly getting caught up on the Antithesis, so most people who retell fairy tales will, ahem, lift their leg before making their mark.

 

I agree with both. I liked OUaT because it explored parental abuse and gender dynamics, and then I hated this show because it explored parental abuse and gender dynamics. Whoever keeps saying that Once makes Game of Thrones look like a Sunday school because at least Game of Thrones portrays awful and bad things as awful...is right. It's important how to handle touchy issues, if the show is going to go there.

[Writing Wrongs]

Sort of fairy tale related. They are showing Fantasia in theaters again for its 75th anniversary:

http://www.fantasia75.com/

 

I may try to go see it. I have yet to make it through it from beginning to end.

[HoodlumSheep]

Another little teaser for Alice:

https://twitter.com/disneystudios/status/661921160091734016

By the sound of that tweet, we might be getting a teaser or an official trailer tomorrow for "Through the Looking Glass."

[Dianthus]

My mom and I used to go see Fantasia in the theater every time it was re-released, back in the pre-VHS days. I wonder if she'd be interested?

[HoodlumSheep]

Alice trailer:

https://twitter.com/disneystudios/status/662263520424136705

[Writing Wrongs]

That kind of looks good.

[HoodlumSheep]

At least it looks more...colorful than the last one. And it looks more fun. Alice at least appears to be more outgoing than she was the last film (I wasn't really impressed with the actress).

[Shanna Marie]

Rewatching Tangled tonight, and I suspect the reason the show's Rapunzel story was such a nothing was that they'd already borrowed heavily from the Tangled version with Emma and Hook. We have the golden-haired princess separated from her parents due to the actions of an evil witch and the charming rogue with a sad backstory and a decent heart (and superpowered smolder) who helps "free" her from her "walls." It would have looked rather redundant if they'd brought on the movie Rapunzel and Flynn/Eugene the way they did the Frozen crew. Not that this excuses the way they bungled what they did with Rapunzel.

 

Also, watching the beginning of Sleeping Beauty, I'm surprised they didn't bring Rumple into that story on this show. There's the bit about burning all the spinning wheels to attempt to protect Aurora, and with Rumple being a spinster and with their penchant for bringing him into every story, it's amazing they didn't make that connection.

[Camera One]

Who says "Star Wars" can't fit into "Once Upon a Time"?   Disney and Star Wars seem to go fine together on this Youtube video, LOL:

 

Merlin practically has the powers of Obi Wan Kenobe already.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

Too funny! :-D

[HoodlumSheep]

http://variety.com/2015/film/news/chloe-moretz-little-mermaid-1201579228/

A small update on that Universal Little Mermaid movie.

[HoodlumSheep]

For the Tangled fans!

New songs from the Disney Cruise Tangled musical!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmRL9tUXvJY&feature=youtu.be

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mmRL9tUXvJY&feature=youtu.be

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mmRL9tUXvJY&feature=youtu.be

I asked Glenn Slater on Twitter if they were going to release a soundtrack for the musical and he tweeted me back! He said he wasn't sure, so I told him I would keep my fingers crossed!

And here's a small montage video of the musical:

http://m.playbill.com/multimedia/video/take-a-first-look-at-disneys-brand-new-tangled-musical-371389

Edited November 12, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[KingOfHearts]

 

A small update on that Universal Little Mermaid movie.

I'm hoping its more like the original story where she dies. If you're going to write a separate telling from the Disney version, it should have a different tone and not end up so happily. It would risk plagiarism otherwise.

 

(To me, Universal saw Disney doing live-action remakes of its classics and hopped the bandwagon to beat them to the punch.)

Edited November 12, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KingOfHearts]

While I respected Disney's attempt at Greek mythology and liked the art style, Hercules fell flat in several aspects. The titular character is a boring piece of bland Disney-Prince toast who wants nothing but glory in his shy and innocent demeanor. His motives are too basic, even for the typical standards in this type of film. He lacked important character flaws and turned out to be a Gary Sue. Whenever I think of Hercules, he's always a vain, heroic-type. Not a David and Goliath wannabe stuck in an episode Leave It to Beaver.

 

Megara and Hades are the only characters I liked, if only for their design and humor. Megara is the only character with any development, mostly due to her implied backstory involving a past lover. Hades is just totally unexpected and stands out well amongst the other Disney villains. While funny, he had the ability to remain threatening and foreboding. He doesn't lend any grace or honor to Greek mythology, but given the context this movie choose he fits in nicely.

 

Mostly all the other characters are painful. Philoctetes, Pain and Panic are the disgusting offspring of the annoying gargoyles from Hunchback of Notre Dame. The Greek gods are boring, Hercules' adopted parents are boring, and the Muses are a spit in the face to Greek culture. The whole "southern Gospel" music style, while bold, takes you completely out of the world they're trying to immerse you in. Coupled with the pop culture references, there's really nothing epic about this attempted grasp at mythology. Everything is drowned in dated jokes about the 1990s.

 

Some of the designs are creative. The Fates were clever and Pegasus was drawn well. But there is a lot left to be desired from not only a Greek mythology epic, but a Disney film. There is no substance where the focus is and the humor is off-color for the subject matter. The movie style might have been a good comedy if it was about something less gigantic. But if you have had any interest in the Greek gods, I would spare yourself from seeing this.

Edited November 15, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I remember being really disappointed that the animated movie hardly delved into the Greek myth.  I was really hoping to see the other Gods.  Unlike the animated movies that preceded this one, there was no real attempt to deepen characters and plot, to provide something more interesting to the adult viewers.  All the sidekicks were annoying, from that guy training Hercules, to the sidekicks of the villain.  I wasn't even a huge fan of Hades.  He reminded me of the Genie in Aladdin.  The main story wasn't too engaging... it felt like a tired sports cliche of an insecure person becoming an athlete.  As for the animation itself... everything either looked too bubbly or too blocky.  I did think it was creative how the characters somewhat resembled the drawings on the Ancient Greek urns.  But the weird colors on Mount Olympus struck me as too unreal and out there.

 

In light of that, I actually was entertained by the Muses.  Hercules I agree didn't feel like a real person, compared to Ariel, Belle, Aladdin, Simba, Pocahontas or Quasimodo.  

 

If "Once" ever does "Hercules", though, I do believe that the writers will incorporate stuff from the Greek myths, at least on a surface level.  Probably not very well, but it can't be any worse than what they've done with Guinivere/Lancelot, and at best, maybe what they did with the Snow Queen (though even that didn't use too much of the original source).  I do think these writers operate better on exploring a pre-made "world" like Camelot, or Arendelle, or Ancient Greece, than going back to the Enchanted Forest as they had to do in 3B.  

Edited November 15, 2015 by Camera One

[HoodlumSheep]

I love Hercules! The soundtrack is one of my favorites! I own it. I love Hercules; he's adorkable and a total clutz, and he's a total sweetheart.

Meg is awesome as well. She is probably the most developed character in the film.

Herc and Meg are in my top 3 Disney animated OTPs. I love them together. She literally died for him, and he was willing to do the same. I love the scene where he's swimming in the pool of souls to get to Meg.

Hades was okay. Just okay. I found him to be a bit annoying. I don't have problems with characters like Pain&Panic, or the gargoyles in Hunchback, so they don't bother me.

I didn't have a problem with the added pop-culture stuff either.

Still hoping we get to see Aladdin & Jasmine, but Jafar was awesome in Wonderland, and I don't want the mother show to ruin to him. I'm torn.

Still hoping for the Black Cauldron, and Princess and the Frog, and a full Little Mermaid arc (not just bits and pieces).

[Spartan Girl]

The Disney Hercules was more like a Greek mythology version of Superman, but I do have a soft spot for it. Hercules was so adorkable, and I loved James Woods' Hades.

A pity OUAT couldn't get him to reprise his role...hopefully Hades and Meg will keep their snark on OUAT.

But I really really hope Al and Jas are coming...

Edited November 16, 2015 by stacey
Added spoiler tag

[Writing Wrongs]

Trailer for The Huntsman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B68mLpRDCe4

 

The Ice Queen looks cool.

[HoodlumSheep]

*sigh*

http://nerdist.com/lord-of-the-rings-philippa-boyens-young-merlin-movie-disney/

[Trini]

Trailer for The Huntsman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B68mLpRDCe4

 

The Ice Queen looks cool.

 

Heh. Looks like they're trying to cash in on a live-action Frozen before Disney.

[Camera One]

So no Snow White but there's the generic female "The Warrior" instead?  Oookay.  This version of the Evil Queen's sister at least looks like it's better than Zelena.

[Camera One]

Is it just me, or does everyone look like Merlin now.

http://io9.com/wonder-woman-gives-you-a-piercing-stare-in-the-first-of-1743940269

 

It look like she has the Magic Gauntlet too.  And I assume that Headdress would activate when the stars align.

 

They would never get the rights, but I could see a half-season devoted to comic book heroes on "Once".  They're all despicable people of course.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Camera One

[HoodlumSheep]

Cloaks obviously made a big comeback this year. Literally.

[KAOS Agent]

I've been binge watching Jessica Jones all weekend and I just want to applaud the show for its very clear portrayal of magical rape as rape. The Once writers like to pretend that because things on their show deal with magic, many of the problematic actions we've seen on the show aren't to be taken seriously. Jessica Jones takes that notion and kills it dead. Basically, the villain is a sadistic psychopath with mind control powers who mind controlled Jessica into a relationship with him. He told her she wanted it, so she did. Sound familiar? When questioned on what part of doing what she "wanted" was rape, she responds, "The part where I didn't want to do any of it! Not only did you physically rape me, but you violated every cell in my body and every thought in my goddamn head."  I so desperately want to bombard the writers of Once with a clip of this scene because it actually gave the victim a voice and she makes it very clear that what he did to her was so much more than just a physical violation.

 

Jessica Jones features characters with magical super powers. They are just as unrealistic as anything shown on Once, but the show doesn't pretend that because it's magic, it's not real and doesn't have consequences. Rape is rape and the trauma that comes from that cannot and should not be ignored or handwaved as fantasy. It's not fun and flirty. It's a violation on every level. I know it's too much to hope that Once will ever address what happened to Graham or even Robin in the appropriate manner, but I just so badly want to show the writers how messed up it is that they treated such a horrible violation so cavalierly. Jessica Jones is pretty much unrelentingly dark and anti-hope, but in some ways it comes across as more hopeful because instead of pretending that a horrible violation doesn't affect someone at all, it shows the struggle even powerful superheroes face to overcome it, but that you can do it.

Edited November 23, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Faemonic]

Jessica Jones is pretty much unrelentingly dark and anti-hope, but in some ways it comes across as more hopeful because instead of pretending that a horrible violation doesn't affect someone at all, it shows the struggle even powerful superheroes face to overcome it, but that you can do it.

I concur so much with this (although I never watched JJ, sounds interesting, I might,) and whenever Shanna Marie said, "Once makes Game of Thrones look like a Sunday school." Because Once has no sense of awareness. That's not innocence, Show, that's some sort of psychopathy.

[Dianthus]

Earlier today, I saw an add for Penguin Publishing(?) recommending books, more specifically recommending The Wrath and The Dawn by Renee Ahdieh for fans of OUaT. Evidently it's based on 1001 Nights.

[Camera One]

So J.K. Rowlings was on Twitter today explaining why Harry Potter named his son the way he did.

http://www.zimbio.com/Screen+News/articles/rS2IoQokkl9/J+K+Rowling+Explains+Harry+Named+Son+After

 

I didn't back then, but now it reminds me of "Once Upon a Time".  Not sure why it even needed an explanation.  It's the same reason why every child in Storybrooke needs to be named Regina.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Camera One

[Faemonic]

So J.K. Rowlings was on Twitter today explaining why Harry Potter named his son the way he did.

http://www.zimbio.com/Screen+News/articles/rS2IoQokkl9/J+K+Rowling+Explains+Harry+Named+Son+After

Huh? But I thought Harry explained why he named his son the way he did, in the book. Rowling's gotta brush up on Foucault and Barthes, because literary analysis that centers Authorial Intent is so passe and, as she says, she's got people to dinner.

 

I remember when she announced that she shouldn't have paired Ron and Hermione up, but it should have been Harry and Hermione. Someone else tweeted or tumbled something like, "In other news, Jane Austen rises from the grave and announces that Wickham would have been a better match for Elizabeth Bennet than Darcy. This announcement left fans upset and confused."

 

That said, if/when living authors say something like:

I don't like a character I love being used as a pretext to abuse other readers. https://t.co/jOn0L6N6HY

— J.K. Rowling (@jk_rowling) November 27, 2015

It should mean something. Let character assassination be kept to analysis, not conflated to personal attacks on real-life people.

[Dianthus]

I haven't been following it myself, but I was just reading about Jessica Jones over at Tor.com. The baddie is a master manipulator and was/is gaslighting the protagonist. He also plays the victim card. Couldn't stop thinking of Reggie.