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Shanna Marie

Season 5: Spoilers & Speculation

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I thought SyFy had their upfronts today, so I figured we'd hear an S5 premiere date, but I can't find anything about their upfronts anywhere, so I must have misunderstood.

 

Also, hi! I just binge-watched this show in the last few weeks and I am super into it now. No idea how it flew under my radar for so long, because I'm an SK fan and into sci-fi stuff in general. I'm guessing SyFy hasn't done a great promotional job with the series?

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I thought SyFy had their upfronts today, so I figured we'd hear an S5 premiere date, but I can't find anything about their upfronts anywhere, so I must have misunderstood.

 

Also, hi! I just binge-watched this show in the last few weeks and I am super into it now. No idea how it flew under my radar for so long, because I'm an SK fan and into sci-fi stuff in general. I'm guessing SyFy hasn't done a great promotional job with the series?

Does this really count as Stephen King as much as "loosely inspired by/licensed from Stephen King"?

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No, I think the latter is right, but I still thought I would have heard about it because of the connection. In truth, I only figured it out because of the Maine setting and a few phrases the characters used in the first few episodes. Then I googled it and felt confused as to how I missed it.

 

I have no real speculation about Season 5, but I do have concerns. Season 4 was not my favorite, for one primary reason: I missed Audrey. That's a character I loved for three seasons, and she was completely absent for five episodes (Duke figures out she's faking at the end of Ep 5, so I don't count that one), and in a state of either pretending to be or partially feeling like someone else for the rest of the season. Lexi was not a good replacement for Audrey, and Mara...no.

 

My other areas of dissatisfaction with Season 5 had to do with how focused it was on Audrey/William/Mara and the whole Trouble Mythology. I liked the more procedural feel of the previous seasons. It was sort of a mix of X Files and Lost, a good balance of Trouble of the Week and the larger Who Is Audrey arc. Season 3 started veering more into the latter, and Season 4 felt like it was ONLY about that.

 

So I'm concerned about how long we're going to be stuck with Mara, and do we have to go to this alien world/other dimension? Do we really have to have William back? I love Colin Ferguson, but we don't need another lead male on this show. Speaking of which, I loved Jennifer--she was the first female supporting character I really felt integrated well--and I'm afraid that she's gone too, like every other woman they've ever cast.

Edited by Carrie Ann

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I don't think season 5 is going to feature Jennifer. I don't get that impression from reading Emma Lahana's Twitter anyway. I haven't seen Colin Ferguson adressed in any tweets either.

 

It's sad because it makes me think that post All The Troubles Duke is going to be some revenge ridden character who ultimately ends up dying (aka the one Audrey is supposed to kill). I hope that's not the case.

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My other areas of dissatisfaction with Season 5 had to do with how focused it was on Audrey/William/Mara and the whole Trouble Mythology. I liked the more procedural feel of the previous seasons. It was sort of a mix of X Files and Lost, a good balance of Trouble of the Week and the larger Who Is Audrey arc. Season 3 started veering more into the latter, and Season 4 felt like it was ONLY about that.

 

I'm one of those people who strongly dislikes the "Trouble of the Week" especially now in the latter seasons, where it feels more like a distraction from the main plot. 

That said, season 3 did a better job of integrating the central mythology with  the trouble of the week format than season 4. The Troubles of the week helped explore the characters and their choices and even set up later events. Stand alone Trouble of week don't really work for me with this show because I've always found that the troubles are not really well thought out or executed. If they want it to be easy to resolve it is (Audrey just tells someone to calm down and it stops) and other times it is almost impossible to live with (and someone has to die to stop the Trouble) . Exploring  this may be interesting but for a show with 13 episode seasons, I prefer they link the Troubles with the characters and the central mythology,but then that's just me.

Season 4 could have explored more issues like what/who is the heart of Haven, Dave's adoption in more episodes (especially the 1st few) to generate more mystery, and more time for the characters to process the whole Audrey is Mara and caused the Troubles would have been interesting, but I guess that will be done in season 5.

I think Emily Rose's maternity leave really affected season 4 as it was not that well put together, especially  in the first few episodes.

 

I think season 5 will intially focus on helping Duke, and then getting Audrey back which may finally force the brothers Teague to reveal some of their long held secrets. Will Mara be really as evil as advertised or just misunderstood? A trip to 1983 would be really interesting for me or even further back. And I suppose a trip to the other world may also become necessary at some point, though I think this place may be an alternate Haven (that would be good for budgetary purposes as well I guess).

 

I am neutral about the return or no return of Jennifer and William. If they add something to the plot then that's ok but they seem to have been just like previous one season guest stars and I agree that I don't think this show needs another male lead character.

Edited by BlueJay81

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I don't think season 5 is going to feature Jennifer. I don't get that impression from reading Emma Lahana's Twitter anyway.

Playing optimistic here, but it would make sense to avoid giving anything away if the fate of your character was a major cliffhanger. That's the challenge of being a celebrity in today's Twitter age. Just saying "It's cool to be in Nova Scotia with my friends!" would give away a cliffhanger outcome. Though I'd think they'd at least need her to provide the dead body for the first episode, even if Jennifer's dead.

 

I would love to keep Jennifer around, but I could do without William. Given the cliffhanger, even if they bring William back, he won't be around for however many episodes that takes. I don't think they'll resolve that right away.

 

I'm holding on to hope that the current Mara isn't entirely evil because she's learned some things over the centuries, but that presumes that she actually now has all her Haven memories of being the Haven Helper. Even if she has those memories, it may take her a while to integrate them fully and process what they mean to her.

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I'm holding on to hope that the current Mara isn't entirely evil because she's learned some things over the centuries, but that presumes that she actually now has all her Haven memories of being the Haven Helper. Even if she has those memories, it may take her a while to integrate them fully and process what they mean to her.

 

Maybe this will be the season they merge á la Detta/Odetta/Susannah.

 

Does this really count as Stephen King as much as "loosely inspired by/licensed from Stephen King"?

 

Depends on how you look at it, I suppose.  I found out about the show from an update on current goings-on in the SK universe.  *shrug*  Though I am disappointed that he seems to favor a vastly inferior "loosely inspired by" TV show.  Or maybe he's just getting more money from CBS.

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Pretty sure that means suburban bliss by the end of of the fifth season.

 

Anyway, going back to the Jennifer debacle. I perused all the Emma Lahana tweets, and while she says she's in the US (hopeful), I also found on from EB saying he missed her. So while I believe that they're amping it up that doesn't convince me we're seeing her again.

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I'm glad they're finally going to do something about those rings. While I love that this show is great about planting clues and setting things up far in advance, it does get a little frustrating waiting for things to pay off, and Nathan's been wearing that ring on a chain around his neck so very consistently since the beginning of the second season.

 

Jennifer's not dead until we see the funeral. La-la-la not listening to any news otherwise.

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There's a BTS picture of Emily Rose at a funeral (judging by the floral arrangements). Doesn't have to mean anything though.

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Oof, she was my least favorite part of Alphas, by a wide margin. This is not an equal trade for Jennifer, in my opinion, but I will hold out hope that she's better here than she was on Alphas.

 

Also, if gene therapy turns out to be the solution for the troubles, I will never stop laughing.

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So, new female recurring character. Anyone want to place bets on how long she lives? I find myself picturing the scene from Blazing Saddles, where the undertaker comes up and starts measuring the new sheriff for a coffin as soon as he arrives in town.

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Seriously.  A genetic marker?  Stupid stupid stupid.

 

In Season 4, ER was very clunky in a lot of her scenes.  Clunky is kind.  I don't need to see more of that.  I do, however, want to see the original.  Audrey, like Lucy and Sarah, was a borrowed personality.  If we are going to have Audrey, I want the real Audrey back.  I liked her and her boyfriend, Brad.

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Maybe the "genetic marker" is a sign that these are people descended from people who came from that other place.

 

I would imagine that for the purposes of articles, "Audrey" is now shorthand for "the character played by Emily Rose" and not necessarily meaning what her identity is at the moment. It might get confusing to suddenly be referring to the main character by a different name and it might count as a spoiler.

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This shorter article seems to be even more spoilerly

 

http://www.craveonline.com/tv/articles/709357-canadian-laura-mennell-joins-cast-of-haven?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=canadian-laura-mennell-joins-cast-of-haven

 

It seems Duke won't be 'cured' easily and Nathan's greatest fear may  finally be revealed, though if that is what it is it's not that much of a surprise at all.

 

 So, new female recurring character. Anyone want to place bets on how long she lives?

 

Doubt she will last very long, (two- thirds of the first 13 episodes of season 5) especially when she discovers the truth about the Troubles. Wonder whose love interest she will be? Dwight? It seems all female guest stars wind up as love interests, except for Claire.Or maybe they'll do something different and she'll end up being 'randall flagg'.

 

I don't think the solution to the Troubles will be scientific, William and Mara's 'troublemaking' seemed more like magic or alchemy not scientific. I guess the genetic markers will expose more about the nature of the Troubles. How  they are transmitted from generation to generation, parent to child, etc and why some families (like the Driscoll's) were not Troubled at all. It may reveal a common ancestor as well ( the family tree in the opening credits).

 

 

In Season 4, ER was very clunky in a lot of her scenes.  Clunky is kind.  I don't need to see more of that.  I do, however, want to see the original.  Audrey, like Lucy and Sarah, was a borrowed personality.  If we are going to have Audrey, I want the real Audrey back.  I liked her and her boyfriend, Brad.

I too want to see Mara  and Lucy too for that matter, but I can't see how they can navigate the  contractual "trouble of the week' format with Audrey as Mara unless she'll be somewhat less 'evil' or powerful since William is trapped on the other side and will reluctantly help or the Audrey personality may fight back and Mara will show up again periodically.

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I suspect that "Nathan's greatest fear" in the article isn't meant as a reference to whatever he saw from the girl with the fear Trouble, especially since at that time he wasn't involved with Audrey and didn't realize that there was a chance he might lose her that way. It's just something he likely dreads now. And if he's worried that he's lost Audrey for good, that may be an indication that Mara is around for a while.

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So thanks to Twitter, I think it's confirmed that Emma Lahana isn't returning to the show.

 

It was of her own choice which I completely understand. Small Town Canada v Big City New Zealand has got to be a difficult feat.

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Season 5 spoiler-ish

 

Question: Is Season 5 going to be Haven’s last? —Geoffrey
Ausiello: “It very well could be,” Eric Balfour ventured when we saw him at the Saturn Awards. “Nobody at the network’s said that, but we are viewing it that way.” To the point that at least one of the producers “promised that he’s shooting two endings,” one of which will afford proper closure. As Balfour explains, “The writers are of the opinion that you don’t get the opportunity to see the finish line very often on a television series, so knowing that we have the ability to sort of plan for that – and we have [the length of] two seasons to do it, it’s not like it’s tomorrow — I actually am of the opinion that I hope we do it, because I would love to give the fans a real ending and honor the show that way.”

 

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I will miss Jennifer. I hope that they do tie up the loose ends. Genetic marker? Perhaps makes individuals susceptible to Mara and Williams's manipulation? Or an effect of the manipulation? I just want a lot more Duke in the final season.

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I read in the newspaper this morning that Nova Scotia got blasted by Arthur. Any word from the Twitterverse or anything else about how that affected filming? I hope everyone in the cast, crew and host towns is safe.

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I think they've been on hiatus so I doubt they were very affected.

 

The only weather related stuff I heard was that they filmed in the snow when they first started out.

 

In other news: The Cape Rouge (or the exterior shot of it) isn't returning either.

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Honestly the only thing I liked in S4 was the Nathan/Duke dynamic and maybe Jennifer, so I hope there'll be some of that (although I fear we've seen the last of Jennifer).

I thought ER was pretty terrible in some of her S4 scenes, so I hope she improves if this is the last season. She didn't use to have so many clunkers, so who knows.

 

I'm pretty sure the writers have completely forgotten about the fear episode and Nathan's greatest fear not being revealed, so I think this is only meant as a general "losing Audrey" thing.

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So no effort will be made to retrieve William from the underground abyss?

Well the Colorado Kid was conveniently forgotten last season, so perhaps it will be a similar thing with William where he is mentioned initially but finding him is quickly put on the back burner  and the rest of the season focuses on something else.

I'm sure it's still possible for him to make another appearance though, there are 26 episodes. If he doesn't though, it will be rather annoying because the character didn't add that much to the central mythology since he wasn't given a chance to reveal anything major i.e. what's on the other side?, who are they?, what was agent Howard?, what is the big picture Nathan didn't appreciate or understand, what is the nature of his connection to Mara? the list goes on...

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They don't need the actor while they're searching for William or trying to find a way to get him back. They only need him for the part where they find him. So they could still be spending the season trying to find a way to reopen the portal without him appearing onscreen.

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re: Colorado Kid. I had the impression that everyone feels it's better for him to stay in the Barn. So no, they're not looking for him, per se.

 

Think they'll get back to that 1901 Entity this season? Which both annoys and fascinates me. Annoying because logically there is no 1901 Entity (first 20th century Entity should have been 1912) and fascinating because hey, there's a feathered hat Entity in a vague photograph.

 

Pretty sure the first few episode will be Mara wreaking havoc while Nathan pouts and Duke mourns and Dwight is the only rationally thinking person.

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Pretty sure the first few episode will be Mara wreaking havoc while Nathan pouts and Duke mourns and Dwight is the only rationally thinking person.

Based on the teaser trailer that I believe is now posted in the media thread, it looks like you're about right. Mara is insisting that Audrey is gone. Nathan's superpower of extreme denial seems to be in full force, and that could get him killed if he keeps acting as though Mara is really Audrey. But it looked like Duke was actually being somewhat rational and trying to get some sense into Nathan. Good luck with that. The denial is strong in that one.

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At least from the trailer it seems they won't be shying away from evil Mara too quickly. I suppose the ineffectual Guard will now be trying to hunt down Mara, and Nathan will want to protect her (Audrey), causing conflict with the others.

Nathan's denial reminds me of what the Chief used to say about Nathan not seeing things as they are, I guess it's a consistent character trait.

Read also that William won't be back in season 5 which is a bit annoying, not that I really wanted to see him again but we got very little information out of him. I suppose Mara should know as much as he does or more.

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So are they going to break into the Barn to retrieve her? I think that's what they're busting into anyway. If Audrey is in there, are the others as well?

 

Not to open a moral can of worms, but this also bothers me. If Audrey (s1-s3 Audrey) was in the Barn all along and Mara was imprinted with her personality, did Nathan technically sleep with Mara? What if Sarah is still in there too? What if one of them gets out?

 

My head started hurting just phrasing it like that.

 

The worst thing is probably that she's NOT pretending this time. Or the best, depending on how you look at it.

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So are they going to break into the Barn to retrieve her? I think that's what they're busting into anyway. If Audrey is in there, are the others as well?

 

Not to open a moral can of worms, but this also bothers me. If Audrey (s1-s3 Audrey) was in the Barn all along and Mara was imprinted with her personality, did Nathan technically sleep with Mara? What if Sarah is still in there too? What if one of them gets out?

 

My head started hurting just phrasing it like that.

 

The worst thing is probably that she's NOT pretending this time. Or the best, depending on how you look at it.

From what I saw or my impression is that 'Audrey is in there" just means remnants of her personality are still within Mara because Nathan believes Audrey is strong enough to resist Mara's influence, though this is part of his denialism because even Audrey herself said she 'felt being Mara" and that it was different from memories of Lucy etc. Mara is the original, Audrey is just implanted memories. In terms of this story though she is the personality we are most familiar with and may be the one to 'defeat' 'transform' Mara, maybe the earlier suggestions by the Teagues that she is 'different' this time will have a deeper meaning and impact.

I think the barn is gone, it may reappear but for now it was destroyed. That building they were breaking into may just be a place in Haven, they do utilize the same locations for a lot of stuff. We don't really know the mechanism behind the mind wiping and personality implantation process which Howard seemed to be responsible for, but the person/body of Mara is the one who has had the memories of Sarah, Lucy, Audrey etc the body is the same, the memories/personalities are different. So if Mara was barned against her will (as William suggested) I would assume she may be a 'little' upset about that and her body being used against her will so to speak.

Howard did seem to be really against Audrey remembering (in S3 when she had glimpses of Lucy) and he did indicate that it was dangerous, but then we got the 'very human' comment which seemed to suggest that Mara/Audrey is a good person (at least in his opinion) or is just flawed and made a mistake.

Edited by BlueJay81

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From what I saw or my impression is that 'Audrey is in there" just means remnants of her personality are still within Mara because Nathan believes Audrey is strong enough to resist Mara's influence, though this is part of his denialism because even Audrey herself said she 'felt being Mara" and that it was different from memories of Lucy etc.

Yeah, that was my impression, that Nathan thinks there has to be some remnant of Audrey within Mara because Mara was Audrey and has Audrey's memories, and that he can somehow bring Audrey back to the surface and save her and everything will be okay. Whether he's right or whether this is his denial superpower kicking in remains to be seen.

 

They've posted some promo photos of the season premiere on the Facebook page, and it looks like Duke's hair hasn't changed, regardless of what Eric Balfour did to his hair during the hiatus (I believe he'd posted a photo of himself with a really short haircut). Duke still has a ponytail. But that could just be in the shots that resolve the cliffhanger and he gets a haircut later.

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Re: Duke's hair, I think Balfour mentioned on twitter or something that it's a wig at the start of the season. Looks pretty realistic but they can do so much stuff with hair these days. Must say i'm glad he cut his hair, have never liked men with long hair. Was happy when Dwight cut his too.

Edited by BlueJay81

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Anyone want to speculate on the trailer? I am wondering about Mara shooting Nathan... to me, it looks like he had a vest on (it's a quick clip, but he looks kind of bulky), which Mara should be able to tell, too. So considering the TV trope that bullet proof vests are like magical shields, and the added benefit of Nathan not being able to feel pain (whereas a normal TV cop would be writhing around for at least a few minutes if hit in the vest, Nathan might be knocked over by the force but could quickly recover), what's the point? If she's trying to kill/ incapacitate him, why not hit him in the head or leg? If she's trying to scare him... it's not too scary if he doesn't feel it, is it?

 

Unless he's not wearing a vest, in which case things are going to get interesting.

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I think she was just messing with him and Dwight. Dwight attracts bullets so I think that was her intention, she knows the bullet would strike Dwight's vest. It seems Mara really wants Nathan to know that Audrey is gone.

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I think she was just messing with him and Dwight. Dwight attracts bullets so I think that was her intention, she knows the bullet would strike Dwight's vest.

Speaking of Dwight, I've been thinking how his bullet proof vest makes no sense. He's a bullet magnet; the vest is not. So why don't bullets attract themselves to parts of his anatomy not covered by his vest, rather than conveniently hitting the vest? (Now I'm picturing Dwight wearing a bullet proof suit and matching helmet...)

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Speaking of Dwight, I've been thinking how his bullet proof vest makes no sense. He's a bullet magnet; the vest is not. So why don't bullets attract themselves to parts of his anatomy not covered by his vest, rather than conveniently hitting the vest? (Now I'm picturing Dwight wearing a bullet proof suit and matching helmet...)

Because Dwight is a main character and they don't want him to die, I have mostly stopped trying to understand the mechanism behind most of the Troubles because they simply don't make sense or have a convenient 'out' if they want to.  I still wonder how Nathan functions on a day to day basis since he cannot feel anything even his own skin. How does he handle objects, walk, run, fire a gun.

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That fifth one is the most interesting piece of information IMO. I am not a big Stephen King fan and have not read the Dark Tower series but from the description I've read, the whole fear of the 'other side' now seems to make more sense

Edited by BlueJay81

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I still wonder how Nathan functions on a day to day basis since he cannot feel anything even his own skin. How does he handle objects, walk, run, fire a gun.

There are actually real-world conditions similar to Nathan's Trouble, and those people manage to handle objects, walk, run, etc. They may not have sensation on their skin, but they notice when they come up against the resistance of a solid object. If you had to feel with your skin to walk, you wouldn't be able to wear shoes. It's probably more difficult to walk with less tactile sensation, but it would be kind of like walking while wearing heavy platform soles that essentially numb your feet to any contact with the floor and make it harder to judge pressure and distance. Eventually, you'd get used to it and develop coping strategies. I noticed in "Fear and Loathing" that the guy who stole Nathan's Trouble was pretty clumsy. On first viewing, I thought that was just to work in him damaging that piece of equipment on Duke's boat so that Duke would later have an excuse to delay the trip so he could go tell Nathan, but this time around, I wondered if that was meant as one of the first clues that he was adapting to not feeling.

 

I can't really explain Dwight, unless maybe the bullet hits him in the place it was aimed at the other person, and most people aim for the torso because that's the biggest, easiest target on the human body. He's lucky no one's shooting people in the head around him.

 

As for the shooting seen in the promo, I was thinking that in last year's promos, it all focused on Lexie, with no hint of Audrey, and yet we had Audrey back just as soon as she was back on the show full-time. So what if Nathan does get shot, and seeing him hurt is what triggers Audrey to resurface? That sounds like the kind of plan Nathan would come up with.

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Audrey's not real, so why would she just come back? Mara is the real person and that is her real body. I hope they don't make it as simple as that. I expect the original to be fighting back a lot harder to keep her self alive over a downloaded personality. I wouldn't mind if she still has remnants of the other personalities floating around her head and their selflessness starts to change her original personality.

 

I was getting bored of Haven and the Audrey/Nathan love crap. Mara's not another random personally, she the original and I wanted to meet the original since the beginning so I don't want her gone that quickly. I'm excited to see what kind of trouble and Troubles Mara brings. 

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Exactly.  I've been off Haven during the hiatus but it just kills me that people think Mara is using Audrey.  Mara is the real personality.  Audrey is just a construct.  Gah.  Audrey has been the one using Mara's body.  If i were Mara, I'd be pretty pissed too.

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They've posted some episode stills/promo shots on the Facebook page, and it looks like Nathan really does get shot in the scene in the promo where we see Mara shooting him. In the stills, Nathan and Duke are sitting leaning against a truck, and Nathan's got a bloody hole in his shoulder. In the thumbnails that showed up in the newsfeed, I thought he looked really, really tired and rather depressed, but then the gunshot wound shows up a lot better in the full-size photo.

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I still wonder how Nathan functions on a day to day basis since he cannot feel anything even his own skin. How does he handle objects, walk, run, fire a gun.

I had a stroke 13 years ago and my sensory center for my left side was obliterated. I can feel impact (which took a lot of PT) but everything else is muted or wrong. I have cut and burned myself without knowing it. On the flip side, I can be holding a towel and feel horrible pain. Daily functioning is a combination of using sight and trusting muscle memory.

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