SueB January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 Well that was entertaining to read, so no need to apologize. If, perchance, you watch it someday.... Let me know. Link to comment
AwesomO4000 January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 Will do, SueB! I'll just make sure to turn it off before the picnic flashback. Oh, and by the way... I'm all better now. (Well, at least back to what passes for "normal" in my case, anyway. Hee.) 1 Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 Sorry for the delay. I started on season 2, but got distracted. Stupid life keeping me from my research. ;-) Okie dokie, so here's my definitions, first. Made the plan -- Sam gets credit if he does the research; Dean gets credit if he uses his experience; no one gets credit if they have to change their plans or don't come up with a plan at all. Or we don't see them come up with a plan. Saved the people in peril -- a direct save, not indirect. Whoever gets the kill could also get credit for the save, but I wanted to keep it simpler. I also counted if Sam or Dean saved the other. Got the kill -- pretty self-explanatory, I think. ;-) And here are the numbers: Sam Plans -- 2 Sam Saves -- 4 Sam Kills -- 5 Dean Plans -- 2 Dean Saves -- 2 Dean Kills -- 8 Joint Plan -- 10 Joint Saves -- 14 Joint Kills -- 1 (Scarecrow -- they torched the tree together.) No Plan -- 8 No Save -- 2 No Kill -- 8 When they didn't work together, Sam tended to save the people while Dean killed the monster. But I think the number of times they work together is more significant. *shrug* Any questions while I work on season 2? 3 Link to comment
Aeryn13 January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 Ouch, I thought Dean would have far better numbers during Seasons 1 and possibly 2. If it`s this tepid early on, I revise my theory that those Seasons would offset Seasons 6 and 8. Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 (edited) Season 2 numbers: Sam Plans -- 5 Sam Saves -- 6 Sam Kills -- 3 Dean Plans -- 3 Dean Saves -- 4 Dean Kills -- 5 Joint Plan -- 7 Joint Saves -- 8 Joint Kills -- 2 (Folsom Prison Blues (joint salt and burn of the ghost) and AHBL Pt 2 (Sam kills Jake, Dean kills YED w/assist from John)) No Plan -- 7 No Save -- 5 No Kill -- 13 Edited January 25, 2016 by Demented Daisy 1 Link to comment
Aeryn13 January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 Wow, Season 2 is also turning out much worse for Dean than I remembered. And the downhill years are just coming. Thanks for the effort in doing this. Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 Season 3: Sam Plans -- 5 Sam Saves -- 4 Sam Kills -- 4 Dean Plans -- 2 Dean Saves -- 2 Dean Kills -- 1 (I checked and double-checked this one because it doesn't seem right. But all I could find is Malleus Maleficarum.) Joint Plans -- 7 Joint Saves -- 5 Joint Kills -- 3 (Fresh Blood (Dean kills vamps, Sam kills Gordon), A Very Supernatural Christmas, No Rest for the Wicked (low-level demons killed)) No Plan -- 2 No Save -- 5 No Kill -- 8 I'd call that last one the most striking. Half of the episodes either had no kill or someone other than Sam or Dean killed the monster. (Bobby, another monster, Ruby, etc.) 1 Link to comment
AwesomO4000 January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 (edited) Thanks, Demented. Awesome data gathering on your part. I expected season 1 and 2 to be pretty balanced, so it was interesting to see the numbers reflect that. I, too, was impressed with how many times the brothers did things together. I have a feeling that starting about season 3 - when the heavy-duty fibbing begins - the teamwork will start going down a bit. Also, if I'm remembering correctly, many of the monsters, ghosts, etc. in season 1 were single baddies. I think season 2 is somewhat similar, but around season 3, the baddies start multiplying, working in groups, and getting killed in groups, so how will you record that in the data? For example with the 7 deadly sins in season 3, I think there would be kills/defeats by both brothers if they are counted individually (or I guess it could count as a "joint kill"), but then we have vamp-enhanced Dean in season 6 killing a whole bunch of vampires all by himself, so would that only count as 1? Mostly curious - I can sometimes be a number cruncher myself, and in a previous job, I used to design field experiments (where the type of data you can collect is important*) so these kinds of "data dilemmas" intrigue me. * In science, it is really frustrating if you have an experiment that takes a bunch of time and effort only to get 1 data point... The idea is to avoid designing experiments like that whenever possible. I'd call that last one the most striking. Half of the episodes either had no kill or someone other than Sam or Dean killed the monster. (Bobby, another monster, Ruby, etc.) Ah, so I'm assuming that the 7 deadly sins episode didn't count for either Sam or Dean? I would've expected that to be a "joint venture," even though Bobby did the exorcising (since Sam and Dean helped to get the demons roped in)... but then again Ruby did a lot of the killing there *sigh* (I disliked Ruby's oh so "look at the kickass, sassy chick" introduction.) Dean Kills -- 1 (I checked and double-checked this one because it doesn't seem right. But all I could find is Malleus Maleficarum.) They didn't technically kill the Doc in "Time Is on My Side", but Dean did poison him and save Sam from him, and Dean was solely responsible for putting the Doc out of commission, so maybe that should count? Also it was Dean's plan that got rid of the demons in Jus In Bello. The demons didn't technically "die," but they were defeated and sent back to hell. Edited January 25, 2016 by AwesomO4000 Link to comment
rue721 January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 (edited) Thanks for doing this DD, the data is fascinating. It's striking how often they do things together. I'll be interested to see how that number changes over the course of seasons (and under different showrunners). It makes sense that Dean skews more toward kills and Sam skews more toward saves (in their individual stats), but I'm still surprised to see that that was apparently done so systematically. How are you handling larger characters or mytharc kills/saves? It seems like Dean should get extra points for saving Sam, like when he brought him back to life at the end of S2, and Sam should get extra points for killing a Big Bad (or even a Medium Sort Of Bad, like Gordon). I'm also wondering if Dean is getting too few "save" points in these early seasons because he often saves Sam rather than the PiP? I don't think that you should change how you're gathering the data now (thanks again for doing this!), but can anyone think of a fair/objective way to account for the "magnitude" of the kill or save? Edited January 25, 2016 by rue721 Link to comment
AwesomO4000 January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 I agree with rue721 that you should keep the data gathering the same, Demented Daisy, but I suck... I couldn't help myself... taking a quick look at season 2, I counted 5 Dean kills - (Bloodlust*, Children Shouldn't Play**..., Croatoan*, Nightshifter***, and Heart****). Unless "Children Shouldn't Play..." is counted as a joint kill. I guess Sam was in on the plan and was the bait, but I docked him a few points for falling down on the job - literally - and so he wasn't much help in the actual killing the monster part. But if that's a joint kill, I can see that also and would then understand your point process, so yeah nevermind, I suck... carry on. I'm looking forward to the rest of your analysis. * I remember these, because they looked to be Important Plot Points of Dooooom, but were actually misdirects. ** And this one due to Impala hood slide of awesome. *** This one due to epic fight of eww. (Dean's expression when the skin came off the shifter's arm was epic.) **** And this one, because it was a rare sad one, where Dean felt bad about having to kill the werewolf. I really am enjoying your analysis - and I, too, was surprised about season 3.... I'll show myself out now. Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 They didn't technically kill the Doc in "Time Is on My Side", but Dean did poison him and save Sam from him, and Dean was solely responsible for putting the Doc out of commission, so maybe that should count? Also it was Dean's plan that got rid of the demons in Jus In Bello. The demons didn't technically "die," but they were defeated and sent back to hell. I'm working as literally as I can -- a defeat is not a "kill". An exorcism, as well, is not a kill. Ruby's knife is a kill and Sam's later Hand of Ipecac is a kill. In the beginning, he was exorcising, but he killed Alastair, for example, with his "skills" in S4. Dean got credit for the plan in Jus in Bello, but I counted no saves (since a demon escaped and everyone died anyway) and no kills. I'm not counting "wins" because it's too nebulous. For example, does Sam killing Madison count as a win? Yeah, she died when they might have been able to find an alternative, but how many lives were saved as a result? The show is way too complicated, IMO, to break episodes into wins and losses. 1 Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 (edited) Thanks for doing this DD, the data is fascinating. It's striking how often they do things together. I'll be interested to see how that number changes over the course of seasons (and under different showrunners). It makes sense that Dean skews more toward kills and Sam skews more toward saves (in their individual stats), but I'm still surprised to see that that was apparently done so systematically. How are you handling larger characters or mytharc kills/saves? It seems like Dean should get extra points for saving Sam, like when he brought him back to life at the end of S2, and Sam should get extra points for killing a Big Bad (or even a Medium Sort Of Bad, like Gordon). I'm also wondering if Dean is getting too few "save" points in these early seasons because he often saves Sam rather than the PiP? I don't think that you should change how you're gathering the data now (thanks again for doing this!), but can anyone think of a fair/objective way to account for the "magnitude" of the kill or save? I'm only concerned with the numbers right now. It's for others to debate the importance of the individual saves/kills/whatnot. ;-) Dean's saves include the PiP and Sam. However, I did not include Dean's deal as a "save". But, since Sam didn't die in the long run, I will go back and fix that. Edited January 25, 2016 by Demented Daisy 2 Link to comment
AwesomO4000 January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 Good points, Demented. I guess I brought up the Doc because he was as good as dead (being underground with no way out). And heh, you are really going to have a time with the leviathans, since technically they aren't usually dead either (except Dick) - just in convenient pieces, but I think Bobby had the main kill there anyway. Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 (edited) I agree with rue721 that you should keep the data gathering the same, Demented Daisy, but I suck... I couldn't help myself... taking a quick look at season 2, I counted 5 Dean kills - (Bloodlust*, Children Shouldn't Play**..., Croatoan*, Nightshifter***, and Heart****). Sam killed the werewolf (Madison, as I mentioned upthread) in Heart. Dean kills vamps in Bloodlust; the zombie in Children Shouldn't Play with Dead Things; Dean kills the "nurse" that infected Sam in Croatoan; and the shifter, of course, in Nightshifter. (ETA Whoops, I forgot about the werewolf that Dean killed in an attempt to save Madison. Mea culpa. Changing now.) Posting S4 numbers shortly. Edited January 25, 2016 by Demented Daisy 1 Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 (edited) Season 4: Sam Plans -- 2 Sam Saves -- 3 Sam Kills -- 5 Dean Plans -- 5 Dean Saves -- 3 Dean Kills -- 3 Joint Plans -- 2 Joint Saves -- 6 Joint Kills -- 2 (Lots of demons died in The Rapture; Sam killed Lilith and Dean killed Ruby in Lucifer Rising.) No Plan -- 13 No Save -- 9 No Kill -- 12 Edited January 26, 2016 by Demented Daisy 1 Link to comment
AwesomO4000 January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 Sam killed the werewolf (Madison, as I mentioned upthread) in Heart. Dean killed the neighbor guy who was the werewolf who bit Madison... Where Sam and Dean learned that werewolves don't always remember what they did as werewolves, because the neighbor guy didn't know where he was and asked Dean to help him while he was dying in the street. Dean felt badly because the guy didn't even know why he was shot and was now dying. Dean even felt badly enough to tell Sam about how he felt (and we know how Dean doesn't generally like to share stuff like that, so that was the noteworthy part for me.) And oops - I forgot about the nurse actually in "Croatoan," so good call. I was remembering the guy from the beginning who Dean shot while trying to save the tied up mother, and then brought into the hospital thrown over his shoulder. Sam missed his target, because he hesitated - hence the "dooom" moment supposedly for Dean, because he shot so quickly (but it turned out that Dean was correct to do so, since the guy and his son were infecting other people.) Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 Dean killed the neighbor guy who was the werewolf who bit Madison... Where Sam and Dean learned that werewolves don't always remember what they did as werewolves, because the neighbor guy didn't know where he was and asked Dean to help him while he was dying in the street. Dean felt badly because the guy didn't even know why he was shot and was now dying. Dean even felt badly enough to tell Sam about how he felt (and we know how Dean doesn't generally like to share stuff like that, so that was the noteworthy part for me.) Yep, looks like I remembered a little too late. ;-) 1 Link to comment
Aeryn13 January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 So, going by Seasons 1-4, Sam is leading in plans and saves. Kills seem even - for now. I hate the dichotomy of brain and brawn but they never had much of a problem giving Sam both while Dean only gets grouped as "dumb brawn" or in recent years "killer". And of course nowadays the guy who needs to be told about saving people. Ironic that I do consider Seasons 1, 2 and 4 at least Dean-friendly and yet even in those he barely gets by. Seeing those numbers is actually quite depressing. Enlightening in terms of how one-sided it has always been but depressing. 1 Link to comment
DittyDotDot January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 But the important question is...WHERE ARE THE CHARTS AND GRAPHS AND ARROWS? ;) No, that's interesting. I can't wait to see the breakdown for rest of them. 2 Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 Damn, Ditty, ain't I doing enough work here? ;-) Had to take a dinner break, but I'm starting on season 5 now. 1 Link to comment
AwesomO4000 January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 Ironic that I do consider Seasons 1, 2 and 4 at least Dean-friendly and yet even in those he barely gets by. Seeing those numbers is actually quite depressing. Enlightening in terms of how one-sided it has always been but depressing. I actually thought they weren't that much different myself. Except for season 3 - which I was surprised about - I thought things were fairly close for almost all of the other seasons. And even when Dean went down slightly on the killing in season 4 (which I kind of expected what with Sam and his killing hand powers) he went up in the planning part of it (which also makes sense, since Sam was very much not thinking that season.) What strikes me most from the statistics is how far down the saves go by the time we get to season 4 in comparison to say season 1 and 2. Which likely explains why season 4 depresses me a little bit. Link to comment
Omegamom January 25, 2016 Share January 25, 2016 Are you fast-forwarding through the episodes, or using the transcripts? This is fascinating... 1 Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 (edited) Mostly transcripts. A couple of times I've relied on my memory and it has failed me. For example, I was thinking Sam was able to save the possessed woman at the end of Lazarus Rising -- but she died. I'll take her off the "saved" list, but by my definition, she's not on the "kill" list. Unintended consequence. Back to S5. This one is taking me longer than I expected. So many plans failed, but revised plans worked. So I'll credit whoever came up with the final, working plan. ETA Okay, my brain is about to melt. I did a full day's work on this, I think I'm due a break. ;-) I'll finish up 5 tomorrow. Sorry for the delay. Edited January 26, 2016 by Demented Daisy 1 Link to comment
AwesomO4000 January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 No problem, Demented Daisy, though I admit I was curious to see season 5. I appreciate all of your hard work on this. I send you internet cookies in the flavor of your choice. Deciphering the planning part sounds especially daunting to me. And at least in the beginning the "kill" part was fairly straightforward, but I figure from about season 4 on, that it likely isn't as easy to define. 1 Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 Back to work this morning. With any luck, I'll be done with 5 within the hour. I'm only going to analyze through S10. Not really interested in watching S11 live, analyzing it for who did what. I'd rather live in the moment, if that's okay. ;-) After the season is over, if anyone is interested, I'll do an analysis. Okie dokie, back to the grindstone. Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 Quick question -- My Bloody Valentine. Sam uses his powers to defeat Famine, but does he kill him? For now, I'll give Sam credit for the kill, but it seems strange to me that a Horseman was "killed". Of course, Death is dead now, so.... Ugh, this show. ;-) Link to comment
DittyDotDot January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 (edited) Damn, Ditty, ain't I doing enough work here? ;-) Had to take a dinner break, but I'm starting on season 5 now. No, no, I kid, I kid. You are doing and absolutely faaabulous job!!!! Quick question -- My Bloody Valentine. Sam uses his powers to defeat Famine, but does he kill him? For now, I'll give Sam credit for the kill, but it seems strange to me that a Horseman was "killed". Of course, Death is dead now, so.... Ugh, this show. ;-) It's weird because later in the season Braidy says something about trying to shove the rings back on all the horsemen they defeated, but it wouldn't work because they were only shells of themselves now. I wondered if Sam did kill Famine? But, I think you should keep it your way because I do think the show meant for Sam to kill him and then later forgot that little detail. Edited January 26, 2016 by DittyDotDot 1 Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 Season 5 numbers: Sam Plans -- 5 Sam Saves -- 3 Sam Kills -- 5 Dean Plans -- 7 Dean Saves -- 4 Dean Kills -- 5 Joint Plans -- 4 Joint Saves -- 4 Joint Kills -- 3 (zombies in Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid; demons in 99 Problems; demons in Swan Song) No Plan -- 6 No Save -- 11 No Kill -- 9 1 Link to comment
Omegamom January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 Wow. The "together" numbers just tanked, didn't they? Our boys, going their separate ways...::sob!:: Link to comment
AwesomO4000 January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 (edited) I was just going to say the same thing, Omegamom. I suspected the numbers here would be fairly equal, but I didn't expect such a large downturn in the joint plans and saves. I guess it makes sense, since Dean wasn't really feeling like Sam had his back until late in the season. Edited January 26, 2016 by AwesomO4000 Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 I was just going to say the same thing, Omegamom. I suspected the numbers here would be fairly equal, but I didn't expect such a large downturn in the joint kills. I guess it makes sense, since Dean wasn't really feeling like Sam had his back until late in the season. Actually, the joint kills have stayed fairly consistent. The "no save" number skyrocketed, though. Compare it to S1 -- 2 "no saves" to S5's 11. Lots of death in S5. Besides, "joint kill" means that either they both killed in the episode or they each had a hand in the kill; the former occurs frequently, but the latter only twice (Scarecrow and Folsom Prison Blues.) Doesn't really have anything to do with Dean not feeling that Sam had his back, IMO. Link to comment
DittyDotDot January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 (edited) I was mostly struck by the number of no saves in comparison to S1. ETA: or what DD said while I was screwing around. Also, I think the shift to Dean getting the kill more than Sam might be due to Sam holding back in an attempt to not devolve back into the demon-blood drinking. Edited January 26, 2016 by DittyDotDot 1 Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 I've also noticed that as the number of myth-arc episodes increases, the number of saves and kills goes down. Lots of talking and hunting the Big Bad, less opportunity to save PiP. Just an observation, not a judgement. Season 6 numbers: Sam Plans -- 5 Sam Saves -- 2 Sam Kills -- 5 Dean Plans -- 3 Dean Saves -- 3 Dean Kills -- 7 Joint Plans -- 2 Joint Saves -- 3 Joint Kills -- 2 (vamps in Live Free or Twi-Hard; skin walkers in All Dogs Go to Heaven) No Plan -- 12 (Bobby did a lot of the work in S6; Cas came up with a few plans as well.) No Save -- 14 No Kill -- 8 Link to comment
AwesomO4000 January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 Actually, the joint kills have stayed fairly consistent. The "no save" number skyrocketed, though. Compare it to S1 -- 2 "no saves" to S5's 11. Lots of death in S5. Besides, "joint kill" means that either they both killed in the episode or they each had a hand in the kill; the former occurs frequently, but the latter only twice (Scarecrow and Folsom Prison Blues.) Doesn't really have anything to do with Dean not feeling that Sam had his back, IMO. Yeah, I realized that I put the wrong stat almost as soon as I posted it - I meant to say joint plans and saves like Omegamom was talking about - but the board got all fussy while I was trying to edit, so it took me a lot longer than I meant it to to correct myself. Interesting about the "no save" stat, too. But yes, season 5 was a heavy mytharc season, so less PiP of the weeks to save. Joint Kills -- 2 (vamps in Live Free or Twi-Hard; skin walkers in All Dogs Go to Heaven) I forgot that Sam killed a vamp or two in that one, since I mostly remember him not killing the vamp and Dean killing so many that that was what stuck out. However, it's interesting that both of the "joint kills" come with soulless Sam - and yes, definitely a case of not really working "together" there, so yeah, you are right that joint kill doesn't show they are more in sync. Joint planning is perhaps a better indicator? Very few in season 6 - to be expected for the first half anyway. They were more in sync in the second half - well, once Sam got with the "don't poke the wall" program anyway. Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 Only 2 joint plans in S6: You Can't Handle the Truth and Like a Virgin. In YCHtT, Sam figures out that it's Veritas, but Dean realizes she's the reporter. I'd call it a joint effort. In Like a Virgin, Dean gets the sword, but Sam figures out that the dragon is holding the girls in the sewers. About two-thirds done with season 7. 1 Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 Season 7 numbers: Sam Plans -- 3 Sam Saves -- 6 Sam Kills -- 5 Dean Plans -- 1 (Adventures in Babysitting -- hard to believe.) Dean Saves -- 5 Dean Kills -- 4 Joint Plans -- 6 Joint Saves -- 5 Joint Kills -- 4 (How to Win Friends and Influence Monsters; The Born Again Identity; Party On, Garth; Of Grave Importance) No Plan -- 13 (Leviathans kept them on their toes!) No Save -- 7 No Kill -- 10 For clarification, borax and decapitation didn't count as a kill to me. Injury, oh yeah. But they had to dispose of the heads separately so the body couldn't reform. Not exactly dead, you know? Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 (edited) Quick question before I start on 8 (it'll give me time to start dinner, anyway) -- do Dean's kills in Purgatory count? For example, in the season premiere, Sam and Dean don't kill anyone in their quest to find Kevin. But Dean has a flashback to killing in Purgatory. Since it's not part of the main story for the episode, I'm leaning towards not counting it, but a kill is a kill. Thoughts? Edited because "fro" example and "for" example don't mean the same thing. That's what I get for not proofreading. Edited January 26, 2016 by Demented Daisy Link to comment
Aeryn13 January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 (edited) Quick question before I start on 8 (it'll give me time to start dinner, anyway) -- do Dean's kills in Purgatory count? A morbidly curious part of me would like to know what his stats are without Purgatory, especially during the "maid" part of the Season - possibly zero? - but in all fairness, I believe they should count. They are just kills in another dimension but still kills. Edited January 26, 2016 by Aeryn13 Link to comment
FlickChick January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 DD, how about this? Add a separate line for Dean with Purgatory kills, since I tend to agree that kills in another dimension (not to mention just killing souls that are already dead) shouldn't count with kills in this world. But I would like to see the total kills in Purgatory. BTW, loving your tallies. Thanks for taking the time. :) Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 Okay, I'll include an addendum with Dean's kills. So it'll look like: Dean Kills -- 8 (5 Purgatory) Sound good? (Those are random numbers -- I haven't started counting yet.) DD, how about this? Add a separate line for Dean with Purgatory kills, since I tend to agree that kills in another dimension (not to mention just killing souls that are already dead) shouldn't count with kills in this world. But I would like to see the total kills in Purgatory. BTW, loving your tallies. Thanks for taking the time. :) No problem. Satisfying my own curiosity as well. BTW, I'm only counting episodes, not total number of people saved or monsters killed. Sorry for the confusion. I could count Dean's kills in Purgatory, but that would only be his onscreen kills. Pretty sure he killed dozens, if not hundreds, of monsters in Purgatory. Link to comment
AwesomO4000 January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 Dean Plans -- 1 (Adventures in Babysitting -- hard to believe.) If you mean hard to believe there was a plan, that was mostly on Sam - since he went in there without a good one and Dean had to save his butt through his experience. If you mean hard to believe that that is the only one, I actually kind of expected that. Even this one was somewhat reluctant. Dean was pretty much on a mission in season 7, especially the second half of the season. He was on a "Kill Dick" kick, and sometimes Sam had to try to distract him with cases - and Sam sometimes had a pitch ready (and likely researched it) to give Dean an incentive, if I'm remembering correctly. I can imagine the "it'll be quick" argument being used. Sometimes later on once the case was over, Dean was back to his "Kill Dick" kick - as was shown in the cut scenes from "Time After Time..." Or he took time out in the middle of travel time on the way to a case to find a phone booth and check up with Frank. So I'm not surprised that Dean's planning numbers went down, because he was pretty fixated on researching Dick Roman. I am surprised that his researching for Dick Roman didn't pay off as part of the plan to kill him though... I don't remember offhand where the plan came from in the end. Link to comment
catrox14 January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 Awesome, are you trying to say that Dean had no ability to plan because he was obsessed with getting Dick? 3 Link to comment
Demented Daisy January 26, 2016 Share January 26, 2016 (edited) So I'm not surprised that Dean's planning numbers went down, because he was pretty fixated on researching Dick Roman. I am surprised that his researching for Dick Roman didn't pay off as part of the plan to kill him though... I don't remember offhand where the plan came from in the end. The tablet. That was a lucky break for them -- Charlie found out that Dick Roman was awaiting a special delivery, which they decided to intercept. It had the plan for killing the Leviathan on it. I put it down as a joint plan in the season finale. Dean jokingly suggested they get a "righteous bone" from a nun, which Sam agreed to. Castiel willingly gave up his blood before they even asked. Crowley agreed to give them his blood, but only if it was the last piece they needed. They worked together to get the blood from the Alpha Vamp. (Though, had Edgar not shown up, they might not have succeeded.) So, yeah, in the end, all of Dean's research into killing Dick amounted to bupkis. Kind of sucks, but that's (frequently) the way it goes with this show. Edited January 26, 2016 by Demented Daisy 1 Link to comment
rue721 January 27, 2016 Share January 27, 2016 Awesome, are you trying to say that Dean had no ability to plan because he was obsessed with getting Dick? Hahahahahaha Him and me both, buddy. 2 Link to comment
AwesomO4000 January 27, 2016 Share January 27, 2016 So, yeah, in the end, all of Dean's research into killing Dick amounted to bupkis. Kind of sucks, but that's (frequently) the way it goes with this show. I think that there were probably a few small details Dean was able to put to use - like knowing where Dick Roman hangs out - and thanks to checking in with Frank, that Dick was into everything (pun - mostly - unintentional). But yeah, you're right about their research sometimes going for naught on this show - for example I'm remembering the Christmas episode (which I showed to a friend of mine around the holidays) and all of Sam's "Anti-Claus" research there also resulting in bupkis for their case in the end. That probably happens a lot when the guys don't know exactly what they are dealing with at first. As for season 7, of course Dean also lost some of his focus once he learned about the tainted corn syrup... not surprising: taking away Dean's pie is a sure way for him to lose his way - hee! (Poor Dean - and if he didn't hate Dick Roman already...) I loved those kinds of little dark-humor details they threw in this season. Dean jokingly suggested they get a "righteous bone" from a nun Dean: Let's bone this nun. Castiel: Sister Mary Constance. Good choice. Hee. As I said, I loved the humor this season. 1 Link to comment
AwesomO4000 January 27, 2016 Share January 27, 2016 Awesome, are you trying to say that Dean had no ability to plan because he was obsessed with getting Dick? Yes, yes I was... And that pursuit can be quite distracting. ; ) 2 Link to comment
mertensia January 27, 2016 Share January 27, 2016 If you mean hard to believe there was a plan, that was mostly on Sam - since he went in there without a good one and Dean had to save his butt through his experience. . I don't think it was bad so much as getting (unknowingly) incorrect information. Link to comment
AwesomO4000 January 27, 2016 Share January 27, 2016 I don't think it was bad so much as getting (unknowingly) incorrect information. This is true... except for the splitting up part of Sam's plan. That never ends well. Link to comment
mertensia January 27, 2016 Share January 27, 2016 I figure it's a genetic hero-y thing. The only one "it's never safe when I wait in the car!" on TV who has objected has been Chuck Bartowski. 1 Link to comment
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