S04.E02: Ouroboros

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Travelers face ghosts from their past as they maneuver around their own timelines...

[mjc570]

I really liked this - easy to follow, lots of emotional resonance, it was so nice to see the first James splinter.  I don't remember if Jennifer and her "imaginary friend" were in this or the previous episode, but I totally loved it, especially the museum gaaurd's reaction, laughing uncontrollably at her. 

[justmehere]

So who the hell is Bonham? More than just an Interpol agent.

Curious about Jennifer's plan to get back before that (deliberate) fall.

Not a lot to say on this one. Kind of sweet, seeing the beginning of the splinter program.

Loved Jones' line about her counterpart being completely sauced.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Normally I would find it a little lazy or annoying to have so many flashbacks to S1 during the final season, but it was totally worth it for all the guilty looks on both Cole's and Katarina's faces, as well as the conversations that future Cole had with past Ramse and future Katarina had with past Katarina.

I love that Jones had no problem finding her future self and talking to herself. Most normal people would freak out if they saw another version of themselves, let alone one who claimed to be from the future but that was the least of Katarina's concerns.

Man, Cassie and Cole have totally swapped roles. In the first season, Cole was the one who was willing to kill anyone in cold blood and Cassie was the one pleading with him to respect the sanctity of life. Now Cassie is the one who wants to kill and Cole is the one who is trying to find a spark of humanity inside her that will stop her.

The difference is that in S1, Cassie didn't know Cole. He was a stranger who was also a murderer, so her attempts to keep him from killing were not personal because she didn't know the victims or the perpetrator. But now that their roles have reversed, things have changed because two years later, they know the people who they are trying to kill, and they know each other.

I can't imagine what it's like to Cole to look at Cassie, someone who he used to love, and see this cold person who is determined to kill. I think he still loves her, but he is clinging to the person who she used to be and loving her.

Similarly, it must have been so painful for Cole to see the past Ramse who was his brother before Ramse betrayed him ("MY SON!"), before Cole shot him. Aaron Stanford played a smartass on Nikita, which made him funny to watch, but this show has given him the opportunity to do so much more. His guilt was written all over his face, as was his regret about what he knew would happen between him and Ramse.

Ha, OF COURSE Varys turned out to be not just a bumbling guy at the museum but someone who knows exactly who Jennifer, Cole, and the army of the 12 monkeys are.

Edited June 16, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[bethy]

13 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Similarly, it must have been so painful for Cole to see the past Ramse who was his brother before Ramse betrayed him ("MY SON!"), before Cole shot him. Aaron Stanford played a smartass on Nikita, which made him funny to watch, but this show has given him the opportunity to do so much more. His guilt was written all over his face, as was his regret about what he knew would happen between him and Ramse.

The expression on Cole's face was heartbreaking during that scene. So much guilt and love.

I also liked seeing this devoted Ramse again - all, "You want to leave? We can leave." And encouraging Cole once he had an idea about what was bothering him. Then the hug and the way he touched Cole's hair before the splinter. It was nice to be reminded what their relationship was like, its depth and care, before Ramse became psychodad.

[Evie]

This episode was so bittersweet. 

As much as I like Cole and Cassie, Cole and Jones' relationship is the heart of the show for me. 

No! Jones is dying.

I loved the conversation between the two Jones. 

Cole and Ramse made me sad. By the time Ramse died, I was more than ready for Cole to pull the trigger, but I really did like Ramse and Ramse and Cole's relationship in the beginning. 

I'm glad Jones got a chance to tell Whitley how grateful she was for everything he had done for her. 

[thuganomics85]

Conleth Hill really does look way different with the hair and stubble, but every time he speaks, I still think of good old Varys!

Despite what Ramse did (and how Kirk Acevedo's stint on Arrow kind of soured me on him as an actor), I bought Cole's guilt and sadness over seeing him again, and I'm glad he got to have a final exchange with him.

Also glad that Jones got another chance to tell Whitley what he meant to her her, but obviously the highlight was seeing two Jones together!  But with Jones suffering from that radiation from last episode, I have a sad feeling that she won't be making it to the end.

The duo Jennifers were a hoot again.  And I obviously refuse to believe this is the end of her, despite it ending with her falling into the path of a train!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

What I really loved about Cole and Jones going back to 2043 is that they get to look back at the previous versions of themselves and realize how much has changed in the three years since then. Their relationship has changed from Cole as reluctant participant to genuine affection and trust. But they also got to see how far they have come as individuals. Cole is no longer that aimless guy just trying to get by. He has a purpose now, and he has more people in his life besides Ramse. Instead of focusing only on his needs, he is trying to save the world and make things right. He also got to see the old Ramse who he loved like a brother, the person who he was before he was willing to burn everything down for his son (who, let's be real, he barely knew).

Similarly, Jones got to see Whitley and thank him for everything. As she told Cole the first time she splintered him: "Remember - everyone you see is already dead." Sadly, they both got to experience that when they were in 2043, knowing everything that Ramse, Lasky, and Whitley sacrificed for what they believed in.

Both Cole and Jones have known from the beginning the danger of causality, the paradox, etc. revealing too much information about the future, and the other time travel no no's, but until this point it hasn't really been an issue for them. Whenever they splintered somewhere, there was either a lack of opportunity or a lack of desire to interact with themselves or to warn themselves (or others) about the future in a detrimental way. But for the first time, they were faced with the knowledge of what was to come on a very personal level and the possibility to say or do something to change things. Thankfully Cole knew that he couldn't stop Ramse from becoming Dad Ramse who betrayed him so he didn't even try to say or do anything that would set Ramse on a different course, but so much was visible on his face: the love he had for Ramse, how much he missed their friendship, his guilt over killing Ramse, his regret that so much had changed, and his sadness that he couldn't and shouldn't do anything now to try to change it all.

Jones, on the other hand, chose to interact with herself in a way that she knew would be acceptable (which I found very entertaining). The brief conversation she had with Whitley to thank him, knowing that he died to help them escape Olivia but also knowing that she couldn't give anything away or act too differently was bittersweet.

Edited June 18, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Aliferously]

Holy F-Bomb, show!

There may have been tears.

I don't think Cole and Katarina have ever had to work together like they did in this episode. 

It was nice to see s1 Ramse again. Before it all went to hell and I wound up glad that he'd gone.

Best part was the Ramse/Cole conversation while they were walking towards the facility. Hannah's face was priceless.

That said, Barbara Sukowa ran away with this episode. So much.

[Ray Adverb]

Why didn't 2046-Jones warn 2043-Jones about anything?  Or provide some valuable intelligence?  Like that Leland Frost was not the right target, or not to trust Olivia, etc.,?  They always talk about trying not to violate causality, but isn't that the entire point of their mission?  To change the past?

[bethy]

2046-Jones said something about warning 2043-Jones, but 2043 was all, “How do you know which string to pull?! You might make it worse!”

[Hanahope]

OMG, I started reading a post here before the show ended and that's how I found out Bonham was Varys.  And then I could hear the voice and yes!  Looks nothing like him, it is really amazing how a change of hair or having hair, can do that.

I would like to hope he has more info.  I mean, wasn't this all part of the loop before?

[Ray Adverb]

If they're taking a piece out of the 2043 Splinter Core to fix the 2046 Splinter Core, won't that cause a paradox?

[Zoe]

2 hours ago, RayAdverb said:

If they're taking a piece out of the 2043 Splinter Core to fix the 2046 Splinter Core, won't that cause a paradox?

They realized that they had always done this. That's why there were so many problems with the machine in the first season.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Zoe

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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[ElectricBoogaloo]

Bygones: