S01.E21: The Graveyard of Empires

[CooperTV]

Quote

Following a helicopter crash, the SEAL Team must proceed with the mission as hostiles bear down on them and an injured and impaired Jason goes after their target alone.

Promos

[dwmarch]

I had a feeling that pilot was dead as soon as he said he had a high school sweetheart he wanted to marry. Turned out he was dead all along.

There is no University of Vancouver. There is a Vancouver Island University and I know this because I went there. The big research Uni in Vancouver is UBC.

Does this show have a military advisor? They do great with jargon but less so with tactics. In this episode it was the endless repeats of "here's a hill, let's climb to the top of it and stand there like idiots." Real elite soldiers do not silhouette themselves against ridgelines! Bad guys have a tendency to shoot at human-shaped things that make themselves obvious!

[sigmaforce86]

6 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Does this show have a military advisor? They do great with jargon but less so with tactics. In this episode it was the endless repeats of "here's a hill, let's climb to the top of it and stand there like idiots." Real elite soldiers do not silhouette themselves against ridgelines! Bad guys have a tendency to shoot at human-shaped things that make themselves obvious!

Thought the same thing about the hill, let's stand in the most obvious spot we don't need to crawl.  At least the acknowledged they were almost out of ammo although lik any TV show or movie that comes and goes depending on if they need to run low to make it more dramatic, otherwise it's always unlimited.

I wondered how the pilot was alive the way he was shot but figured out he was dead when Jason said "go back to sleep".  Basically a red shirt with extra lines.

Speaking of jargon - When they talk to the people at base I couldn't understand what they were saying (it's a single word and they say it so fast!).   I went through "Top" and "Talk" before landing on "TOC" which I looked up and it said one of the meanings is Tactical Operations Center.  So I'm thinking that's what they're saying but if I'm wrong someone let me know. 

How much morphine is in those capsules?  I know Jason was hurting but he got one at the crash site and gave himself two in the hut.  Within what was probably an hour and a half time (guessing based on how long they said it would take the other guys to get there and for rescue helicopters to arrive).    Was that too much or are they really tiny doses just enough hold the person over until real help arrives?

[Netfoot]

6 minutes ago, sigmaforce86 said:

How much morphine is in those capsules?  I know Jason was hurting but he got one at the crash site and gave himself two in the hut.

I'm no soldier, but I seem to recall that when an injured soldier was dosed they used to mark his forehead so that he could not be accidentally dosed twice, due to the extreme danger of double-dosing.  When he self-administered two extra syrettes of morphine, I thought i) he would die if he weren't the star of the show, ii) he's at least going to pass out, iii) he will have a serious problem recovering from the OD, iv) they might even go the route of morphine addiction.....

[Kelda Feegle]

Please please please don't go down the addiction path, this was my immediate reaction to multiple mentions and use of morphine.

[CooperTV]

The name of this episode is really pretty. I also looked up what's that means. Of course they would name their episode something like that.

David Boreanaz's terrible, terrible, terrible acting pulled me away from every scene he was in, that's why its existential significance for Jason as a character was entirely lost on me. Oh, and the "twist"! I wish they hadn't done this boring twist at all. It was just embarrassing how obvious it was.

Sonny yelling "I'M NOT EMOTIONAL!11111" was the only passable moment in this.

[piequinn35]

So what now, was that the real big bad? or there is another super big bad? Dig deeper with Xeon's business? Wait what's the title of the next ep?...

[pasdetrois]

Quote

David Boreanaz's terrible, terrible, terrible acting pulled me away from every scene he was in, that's why its existential significance for Jason as a character was entirely lost on me

Completely agree. He's horrible when he tries to emote. He's better at moving swiftly and barking out commands. This episode was horrible because of his extended "acting."

I also find Pare and the actor who plays Ray to be terrible actors.

[mojoween]

I knew red shirt was dead as soon as he was in front of the helo, and was super hoping that AGAIN a David Boreanaz character wasn’t getting assistance from a dead guy.

He wasn’t technically, but the trope was still annoying.

Tonight was the first time I liked Clay.

When Davis said the drone was 750 yards away my husband said the military only uses the metric system.  Can anyone confirm? 

[Raja]

6 hours ago, mojoween said:

I knew red shirt was dead as soon as he was in front of the helo, and was super hoping that AGAIN a David Boreanaz character wasn’t getting assistance from a dead guy.

He wasn’t technically, but the trope was still annoying.

Tonight was the first time I liked Clay.

When Davis said the drone was 750 yards away my husband said the military only uses the metric system.  Can anyone confirm? 

Confirmed. Except for miles, since we drove on US roads with the signge it took me a while to change my thinking back when I left the Army. Remember the "klicks", not yards or miles references  in the bette Vietnam War movies.  Just like scientists needs to be precise calling in help, sometimes from foreign forces needs the same no stupid mistakes from trying to convert units under stress least you get hit by friendly fire.

[Raja]

On 5/10/2018 at 6:48 AM, sigmaforce86 said:

Thought the same thing about the hill, let's stand in the most obvious spot we don't need to crawl.  At least the acknowledged they were almost out of ammo although lik any TV show or movie that comes and goes depending on if they need to run low to make it more dramatic, otherwise it's always unlimited.

I wondered how the pilot was alive the way he was shot but figured out he was dead when Jason said "go back to sleep".  Basically a red shirt with extra lines.

Speaking of jargon - When they talk to the people at base I couldn't understand what they were saying (it's a single word and they say it so fast!).   I went through "Top" and "Talk" before landing on "TOC" which I looked up and it said one of the meanings is Tactical Operations Center.  So I'm thinking that's what they're saying but if I'm wrong someone let me know. 

How much morphine is in those capsules?  I know Jason was hurting but he got one at the crash site and gave himself two in the hut.  Within what was probably an hour and a half time (guessing based on how long they said it would take the other guys to get there and for rescue helicopters to arrive).    Was that too much or are they really tiny doses just enough hold the person over until real help arrives?

They may have said that they were almost out of ammo but they didn't cut their rate of fire as if they needed it to hold out indefinitely.

Yes they were say TOC, 

The pilot being dead all along was no surprise since the episode was about the Master Chief's head injury.

 

It must be a special forces thing since most nations withdrew those pain killer injectors from their combat kit after the experience from the 60s. The field medics might still have had it but at best a regular soldier had one shot on his gear. Or perhaps some Vietnam veterans are still writing or their memoirs inspire

[Netfoot]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

They may have said that they were almost out of ammo but they didn't cut their rate of fire as if they needed it to hold out indefinitely.

As I understand it, the M16 battle rifle is no longer made with full-auto capability (3-round burst only) because squaddies would routinely fire off an entire clip even when a single round would do.  

In Vietnam, a squad would go out on patrol, a monkey would fart in some nearby tree, the entire squad would fire every round they had into the bushes in a single burst of blind fire, and return to base to claim 20 enemy killed.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

As I understand it, the M16 battle rifle is no longer made with full-auto capability (3-round burst only) because squaddies would routinely fire off an entire clip even when a single round would do.  

In Vietnam, a squad would go out on patrol, a monkey would fart in some nearby tree, the entire squad would fire every round they had into the bushes in a single burst of blind fire, and return to base to claim 20 enemy killed.

The standard M16 rifle was changed in the mid 80s when the US Mil was upgrading all of its  equipment. By 2004 most infantry, except designated long rifles in a limited sniper's role, had traded in their M16 for the shorter barreled and collapsing stock M4 that also only had a 3 round burst capability. Special Forces however still probably can get fully automatic versions of whatever rifle that unit is choosing to use

Edited May 17, 2018 by Raja

[silverbell]

On 5/10/2018 at 5:04 PM, Netfoot said:

I'm no soldier, but I seem to recall that when an injured soldier was dosed they used to mark his forehead so that he could not be accidentally dosed twice, due to the extreme danger of double-dosing.  When he self-administered two extra syrettes of morphine, I thought i) he would die if he weren't the star of the show, ii) he's at least going to pass out, iii) he will have a serious problem recovering from the OD, iv) they might even go the route of morphine addiction.....

I don't know how much morphine there is in one of those syringes but they might have lower doses so you can give 1 if the injury is not so bad and more then 1 if it is bad.
It is not so easy to die of morphine overdose, it happens more often with people who take high doses because of addiction. and although morphine is very addictive it is not so addictive if you have actual pain from an injury. It is usually gets addictive when the pain goes down after a few days but I don't know how bad his injury really was since he was walking with no problem on the next mission. 
Also some of his hallucinations might have been worse because of the effects of the morphine and not just because of the head injury.    

5 hours ago, Netfoot said:

As I understand it, the M16 battle rifle is no longer made with full-auto capability (3-round burst only) because squaddies would routinely fire off an entire clip even when a single round would do.  

In Vietnam, a squad would go out on patrol, a monkey would fart in some nearby tree, the entire squad would fire every round they had into the bushes in a single burst of blind fire, and return to base to claim 20 enemy killed.

In Israel we had American M16 with full automatic mode and I am sure special forces could get any weapon they wanted, although full auto is usually just a waste of bullets. 

[Netfoot]

24 minutes ago, silverbell said:

and although morphine is very addictive it is not so addictive if you have actual pain from an injury.

Thing about morphine is, the pain comes back long before they can safely give you another dose.  Like they can only give you a dose every six hours, but the pain starts to return after four.  I spent two weeks begging for morphine for two hours out of every six.  Or that they would hit me in the head and knock me out, or anything, so as to "don't let the blowtorch get me".  

After the ordeal, I had to be assessed to see if I had become dependent upon morphine.  Which I thought was amusing.  The pain was gone, so no pain, no need for the drug.

31 minutes ago, silverbell said:

In Israel we had American M16 with full automatic mode

I don't know when that was, but the older, M16-A1 had full auto, but the newer versions (since the early 80s, with the ribbed forestock) didn't.  But as you say, there are/were a number of variants, so I'm sure that a fully automatic version is available to those who have the authority to request it.  Hell, don'tcha watch TV?  The AR-15 is fully automatic, if you listen to some people...

[silverbell]

16 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

Thing about morphine is, the pain comes back long before they can safely give you another dose.  Like they can only give you a dose every six hours, but the pain starts to return after four.  I spent two weeks begging for morphine for two hours out of every six.  Or that they would hit me in the head and knock me out, or anything, so as to "don't let the blowtorch get me".  

After the ordeal, I had to be assessed to see if I had become dependent upon morphine.  Which I thought was amusing.  The pain was gone, so no pain, no need for the drug.

I don't know when that was, but the older, M16-A1 had full auto, but the newer versions (since the early 80s, with the ribbed forestock) didn't.  But as you say, there are/were a number of variants, so I'm sure that a fully automatic version is available to those who have the authority to request it.  Hell, don'tcha watch TV?  The AR-15 is fully automatic, if you listen to some people...

We don't know if the morphine dose in those syringes are full doses or not. 
and at least in animals the dose can be 0.1–2 mg/kg so there is a big difference between the lower and higher dose and you can give it every 4-6 hours so there is a big variant . 

They had the full auto version till at least 2007 and I a pretty sure they still have them here, and every one had the full auto version in Israel even though they told us never to use the auto mode. But it might be that we got all the weapons the americans were getting rid of and did not want anymore :) 
and It not that hard to make an AR-15 fully automatic (or almost automatic) but again it is usually a waste of bullets in most military circumstances 

[cameron]

On 5/10/2018 at 2:44 AM, dwmarch said:

I had a feeling that pilot was dead as soon as he said he had a high school sweetheart he wanted to marry. Turned out he was dead all along.

There is no University of Vancouver. There is a Vancouver Island University and I know this because I went there. The big research Uni in Vancouver is UBC.

Does this show have a military advisor? They do great with jargon but less so with tactics. In this episode it was the endless repeats of "here's a hill, let's climb to the top of it and stand there like idiots." Real elite soldiers do not silhouette themselves against ridgelines! Bad guys have a tendency to shoot at human-shaped things that make themselves obvious!

Yes they do.  One of the producers  is an ex seal.