Season 2: Homicide hires Paul Cicero?

[Prairie Rose]

On 7/13/2016 at 4:06 PM, WendyCR72 said:

With the recent talk about Jerry Orbach's pre-Lennie Briscoe role, Frank Lehrman, I am somewhat amused at the irony that "Wages of Love" is airing tonight at 8 on WE. So if there is anyone here who has not seen Orbach as a defense attorney, there's your chance!

And how sick of "we were married for 25 years" did I get with the wife saying it 50 million times?

That episode was just on WE this morning. "I am not a piece of FURNITURE, Mr. Stone!" 🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Prairie Rose said:

That episode was just on WE this morning. "I am not a piece of FURNITURE, Mr. Stone!" 🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻

Shirley Knight's daughter also appeared on the franchise, but she was on Criminal Intent. But her daughter was not half as annoying as the writers made poor Ms. Knight here! The twenty-five yeeeeeeaaaaaarrrrrsssss!!! line (repeated over and OVER AND OVER!) will never stop being annoying!

[Prairie Rose]

8 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Shirley Knight's daughter also appeared on the franchise, but she was on Criminal Intent. But her daughter was not half as annoying as the writers made poor Ms. Knight here! The twenty-five yeeeeeeaaaaaarrrrrsssss!!! line (repeated over and OVER AND OVER!) will never stop being annoying!

Shirley Knight appeared in S5 of SVU, and gets arrested in that one, too!! She had the market cornered on annoying, unsympathetic women in the L&O universe. 😂

[Xeliou66]

Blood Is Thicker was just on, this is a favorite episode of mine, such an excellent plot with a lot of good twists and turns. The killer husband was just pathetic and spineless as well as being a murderer, he was practically dominated by his mother, and he looked zoned out much of the time. So many good details in the plot, really good investigation with how Logan and Cerreta found out about the husband knowing about the mugger and about his wife’s affair and how he staged the crime, and legal stuff with the main piece of evidence being the silver pin the victim was wearing that wound up back in the family’s possession. This is a fantastic episode, such an intricate and compelling plot, and I love the exchange between the snobby elitist mother and Cerreta when she called her daughter in law’s lover “so foreign” and Phil replied “yes he’s from the West Side”. 

[Prairie Rose]

Nancy Marchand was perfect as the snooty, uppercrust mother. That drippy, wimpy adulterer doctor will never not drive my last nerve (though he did come through at the end). 

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, Prairie Rose said:

Nancy Marchand was perfect as the snooty, uppercrust mother. That drippy, wimpy adulterer doctor will never not drive my last nerve (though he did come through at the end). 

Yeah the mother was an extremely memorable and unlikable. It was the killer husband who I found incredibly infuriating, what an absolute loser he was, as Schiff said, he was arrogant and stupid. I loved when the judge threw his ass in jail after he went to vacation in Barbados while on out on bail. This was just such a good episode, it’s one of my favorites from season 2, such good detective and legal work and a really good and intricate plot, I liked how they figured out there was something unique about one of the pins and they nailed the guy that way after all of the back and forth. 

[Prairie Rose]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

It was the killer husband who I found incredibly infuriating, what an absolute loser he was, as Schiff said, he was arrogant and stupid. 

Actor John Bedford Lloyd would come back to the franchise playing arrogant loser villains - the professor in "Double Blind" and a serial child rapist on SVU. He had that certain look that made him a convincing TV villain.

[Spartan Girl]

7 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

Actor John Bedford Lloyd would come back to the franchise playing arrogant loser villains - the professor in "Double Blind" and a serial child rapist on SVU. He had that certain look that made him a convincing TV villain.

He was also the rich prick that Penelope left Louis for in Trading Places.

[Prairie Rose]

15 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

He was also the rich prick that Penelope left Louis for in Trading Places.

Another interesting fact about "Blood is Thicker..." is that Nancy Marchand and John McMartin (Larry Webber, the defense attorney) played a married couple, the parents of basketball coach Judy Watkins, on Coach. Their two appearances on that show bookended their appearance in "Blood is Thicker..."

[GHScorpiosRule]

So upon my umpteenth rewatch of "Trust" I'm left in confusion, as I always have been by Ben's closing lines to Paul at the end. How Jamie's mother just "gave in" when she testified. Hello!! Ben! You went to her to convince her to testify because now two boys were dead. Also, you not being able to turn in your son/child without ripping yourself in half? I think this did rip Jamie's mother in half.

Another bit of confusion was Ben's ambivalence in "Star Struck" about whether to try Jesse Unger. Ben believed he deserved to pay because there was that line if they send him to a hospital, in six months, he'd be announced cured, then what would Lucy do? But at the end, he's all, he's sick. He should be in a hospital, but we sent him to jail.

Whuuut???

[Prairie Rose]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Another bit of confusion was Ben's ambivalence in "Star Struck" about whether to try Jesse Unger. Ben believed he deserved to pay because there was that line if they send him to a hospital, in six months, he'd be announced cured, then what would Lucy do? But at the end, he's all, he's sick. He should be in a hospital, but we sent him to jail.

Whuuut???

I didn't get that, either. 

[Spartan Girl]

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

So upon my umpteenth rewatch of "Trust" I'm left in confusion, as I always have been by Ben's closing lines to Paul at the end. How Jamie's mother just "gave in" when she testified. Hello!! Ben! You went to her to convince her to testify because now two boys were dead. Also, you not being able to turn in your son/child without ripping yourself in half? I think this did rip Jamie's mother in half.

Another bit of confusion was Ben's ambivalence in "Star Struck" about whether to try Jesse Unger. Ben believed he deserved to pay because there was that line if they send him to a hospital, in six months, he'd be announced cured, then what would Lucy do? But at the end, he's all, he's sick. He should be in a hospital, but we sent him to jail.

Whuuut???

Yeah, neither of those were his best final thoughts. The “Star Struck” one pisses me off. I’m sorry but IDGAFF about his mental state. He stalked and harassed Lucy, nearly beat her to death, ruined her life, and STILL he cheerfully told the court he’d probably go looking for her again after all that.

 

Lock him up and throw away the key.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Xeliou66]

I’m also puzzled by Ben’s comments at the end of Star Struck, I like the episode a lot but his final comments puzzled me, I thought the defendant was sane and knew right from wrong at the time of the attack, and he blatantly admitted he would stalk and harass the victim again if he got the chance to. He was obsessed but I don’t think he was insane, so I’m not sure why Ben felt guilty about the jury convicting him.

[Prairie Rose]

Ironically, Bradley White (who played Jesse Unger) would go on to marry an actress named Jennifer Bransford. She is best known for her roles on soap operas (One Life to Live, General Hospital). They've been married for over 20 years and have three children.

His next L&O role was even more disturbing, in Season 7's "Legacy". I still shiver watching that one.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Prairie Rose

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

Ironically, Bradley White (who played Jesse Unger) would go on to marry an actress named Jennifer Bransford. She is best known for her roles on soap operas (One Life to Live, General Hospital). They've been married for over 20 years and have three children.

His next L&O role was even more disturbing, in Season 7's "Legacy". I still shiver watching that one.

He’s appeared at least four times on the mothership.

[Prairie Rose]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

He’s appeared at least four times on the mothership.

Yeah, he played a much tamer role in "Sundown" (the episode with ME Rodgers' "free javelins" quote).

Edited March 1, 2022 by Prairie Rose

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m also puzzled by Ben’s comments at the end of Star Struck, I like the episode a lot but his final comments puzzled me, I thought the defendant was sane and knew right from wrong at the time of the attack, and he blatantly admitted he would stalk and harass the victim again if he got the chance to. He was obsessed but I don’t think he was insane, so I’m not sure why Ben felt guilty about the jury convicting him.

Neither do I. I don't think the guy was insane either. He knew exactly what he was doing. He just didn't stop. I hope he never got out of prison. His poor victim.

[Spartan Girl]

Also, I would think Ben of all people was astute enough to know that a person can be both mentally ill and evil. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

[Prairie Rose]

Interestingly, the actors who played the parents of the perp in "Trust" (Tom Mason and Lizbeth MacKay) reunited in "Maritime" from S13. Mason played the defense attorney and MacKay the mother of the defendant and victim (brothers).

[Xeliou66]

I saw God Bless The Child today, great episode despite having a very simple plot, very infuriating to me how those parents let their child die just because of their religious views, Stone had a great line when he said the parents had the right to martyr themselves but they had no right to martyr their child. This was a great episode for Stone, he had a lot of good lines in it and I also liked his ending lines about how maybe as a result of this case a child wouldn’t die in a future situation. Cerreta kind of annoyed me, he seemed very sympathetic to the parents, I liked Logan’s outrage about their actions.

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Cerreta kind of annoyed me, he seemed very sympathetic to the parents, I liked Logan’s outrage about their actions

Yeah. Phil’s stance was always that ALL parents love their children and never kill them. He also said in “Forgiveness” that “wives kill husbands; husbands kill wives. But Fathers don’t kill daughters.” Or something like that. And I’ve always been like, what?

But Mike is in perfect position to say not all parents are good people or there are parents who hurt and kill their children. 

[Spartan Girl]

21 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Phil’s stance was always that ALL parents love their children and never kill them. He also said in “Forgiveness” that “wives kill husbands; husbands kill wives. But Fathers don’t kill daughters.” Or something like that. And I’ve always been like, what?

St Olivia on SVU spews that same kind of crap, one of the many reasons I finally quit that show.

Ceretta feeling sorry for the “God Bless the Child” parents pissed me off, but his instincts about the dad in “Forgiveness” were right, so I guess I’ll give him that, despite his horseshit quote.

[andromeda331]

On 4/10/2022 at 1:25 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yeah. Phil’s stance was always that ALL parents love their children and never kill them. He also said in “Forgiveness” that “wives kill husbands; husbands kill wives. But Fathers don’t kill daughters.” Or something like that. And I’ve always been like, what?

But Mike is in perfect position to say not all parents are good people or there are parents who hurt and kill their children. 

I always liked Mike pointing that out. Especially in Indifference when Greevey is showing some sympathy to the wife. Carla was every bit as bad as her husband. 

[Xeliou66]

I just saw Renunciation, that’s a great episode that I don’t recall ever being discussed, really good plot, I liked how Robinette figured out the loan shark dude was lying about everything and that him and the wife set everything up. Really good detective and legal work, that’s really an underrated episode given that I never see it talked about.
Next up was Heaven, with the horrifying opening of all the bodies laid out and Logan’s and Cerreta’s reactions said it all.

Season 2 was such a good season, just about every episode was good and the cast had great chemistry, I like Cerreta a lot and thought him and Logan were a good pairing, and I love Stone/Robinette and of course Cragen and Schiff were great.

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I just saw Renunciation, that’s a great episode that I don’t recall ever being discussed, really good plot, I liked how Robinette figured out the loan shark dude was lying about everything and that him and the wife set everything up. Really good detective and legal work, that’s really an underrated episode given that I never see it talked about.
Next up was Heaven, with the horrifying opening of all the bodies laid out and Logan’s and Cerreta’s reactions said it all.

Season 2 was such a good season, just about every episode was good and the cast had great chemistry, I like Cerreta a lot and thought him and Logan were a good pairing, and I love Stone/Robinette and of course Cragen and Schiff were great.

It really was a great season. Heaven is such terrible opening. All those poor victims it hits you are. As does the end when reading off the victims names. Jenna in Renunciation was a piece of work. I love Robinette figuring out the loan shark was lying.  That was a really great moment for him. I like Severance because its so rare for another lawyer get the better of Ben like Gold did. But Ben recovered at the end. I love Lesley in His Hour Upon the Stage getting destroyed by her own words. I always wonder what happened to the kids from Blood is Thicker with their sad sack father in jail for murdering their mother, and being raised by their horrible grandmother. 

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It really was a great season. Heaven is such terrible opening. All those poor victims it hits you are. As does the end when reading off the victims names. Jenna in Renunciation was a piece of work. I love Robinette figuring out the loan shark was lying.  That was a really great moment for him. I like Severance because its so rare for another lawyer get the better of Ben like Gold did. But Ben recovered at the end. I love Lesley in His Hour Upon the Stage getting destroyed by her own words. I always wonder what happened to the kids from Blood is Thicker with their sad sack father in jail for murdering their mother, and being raised by their horrible grandmother. 

Yeah Heaven’s opening was horrific, and the ending in court where the victim’s names were read off was powerful as well. It was interesting how many dead ends Logan and Cerreta chased down before finding the guy who set the fire and solving the case. I liked seeing Robinette get in the arsonist’s face at the hospital, another good moment for him, it was rare to see a DA get so angry.

I think Renunciation is underrated just because it never gets talked about much, it’s a really good plot with good detective work and I liked the twist at the end when Paul figured out that the loan shark was lying and it was all a set up. 

Season 2 was filled with great episodes, I love all of those that you mentioned - Blood Is Thicker is another personal favorite of mine, that has such a great, intricate plot filled with good twists, I did feel terrible for the children, losing their mother, their murdering scumbag father going to prison and their elitist witch of a grandma raising them. 

[andromeda331]

17 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah Heaven’s opening was horrific, and the ending in court where the victim’s names were read off was powerful as well. It was interesting how many dead ends Logan and Cerreta chased down before finding the guy who set the fire and solving the case. I liked seeing Robinette get in the arsonist’s face at the hospital, another good moment for him, it was rare to see a DA get so angry. 

So did I. The arsonist was too busy whining, dude you murdered dozen of people!

Quote

I think Renunciation is underrated just because it never gets talked about much, it’s a really good plot with good detective work and I liked the twist at the end when Paul figured out that the loan shark was lying and it was all a set up. 

No, it really doesn't. It has a great plot and great twist when it turned out Jenna and loan shark were basically putting on a show for the kid. I do wish it hadn't taken time so long to realize Jenna was using him. I know he was teen but also an idiot.  

Quote

Season 2 was filled with great episodes, I love all of those that you mentioned - Blood Is Thicker is another personal favorite of mine, that has such a great, intricate plot filled with good twists, I did feel terrible for the children, losing their mother, their murdering scumbag father going to prison and their elitist witch of a grandma raising them.

Those poor kids are going to be so messed up.

[Xeliou66]

Heaven is a great episode - I liked seeing how many false leads they tracked down before finding the arsonist, and how they were getting frustrated, particularly Cragen, with their struggles to solve the case, felt very realistic. And yeah it was unusual to see an ADA get in the face of a perp, in fact I don’t know if I ever recall another time of it happening, but I liked it, Robinette was rightfully angry about all of the people who died in the fire.

Renunciation is great as well - another great moment for Robinette with how he realized the loan shark was in jail during the playoffs and was lying. Some good detective work from Cerreta and Logan figuring out how everything happened as well. I didn’t feel much sympathy for Roy, yes he was set up by Jenna and the loan shark but he still killed a guy because he was obsessed with Jenna, and he was old enough to know that wasn’t okay, he was just so obsessed with getting to have sex with his teacher Jenna that he would’ve done anything for her.

Blood is Thicker is my favorite season 2 episode I believe, such a fantastic plot with how they figured out the husband did it, and how they zeroed in on the silver pin as the key piece of evidence. Intricate, brilliant plot. I think the defense attorney from that episode was one of the sleaziest, he let his client leave the country while on bail, he let the witch of a mom commit perjury, and he let her tamper with a witness. He was such a slimebag and I think even the judge knew it.

The more I think about it, season 2 is one of L&O’s best seasons, not a single bad episode in there and great chemistry with the main characters. Season 2 might be one of my 5 favorite seasons.

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Heaven is a great episode - I liked seeing how many false leads they tracked down before finding the arsonist, and how they were getting frustrated, particularly Cragen, with their struggles to solve the case, felt very realistic. And yeah it was unusual to see an ADA get in the face of a perp, in fact I don’t know if I ever recall another time of it happening, but I liked it, Robinette was rightfully angry about all of the people who died in the fire.

I don't think that ever happened before. With all the mass shootings going on the struggles from the cops and ADA it hits harder. I like that Ben doesn't back down either when he goes to meet his old friend who reminds him he's a friend. Nope, that was so not the time for that. 

Quote

Renunciation is great as well - another great moment for Robinette with how he realized the loan shark was in jail during the playoffs and was lying. Some good detective work from Cerreta and Logan figuring out how everything happened as well. I didn’t feel much sympathy for Roy, yes he was set up by Jenna and the loan shark but he still killed a guy because he was obsessed with Jenna, and he was old enough to know that wasn’t okay, he was just so obsessed with getting to have sex with his teacher Jenna that he would’ve done anything for her.

Good point.

Quote

Blood is Thicker is my favorite season 2 episode I believe, such a fantastic plot with how they figured out the husband did it, and how they zeroed in on the silver pin as the key piece of evidence. Intricate, brilliant plot. I think the defense attorney from that episode was one of the sleaziest, he let his client leave the country while on bail, he let the witch of a mom commit perjury, and he let her tamper with a witness. He was such a slimebag and I think even the judge knew it.

I think the Judge knew too. It reminds me of a episode of Castle when their go up against a powerful family while looking into an old murder every step they get stymied. Castle remarks it's like battling a supervillain. The mother stymied them at every turn. I love the way they got him in the end. Well, her late daughter-in-law with something so simple as adding an initial to her pin. It was such a simple detail.

Quote

The more I think about it, season 2 is one of L&O’s best seasons, not a single bad episode in there and great chemistry with the main characters. Season 2 might be one of my 5 favorite seasons.

It's one of my favorite seasons too. There's so many great episodes.

[Spartan Girl]

RIP Paul

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

RIP Paul

Also posted in the media thread.

[Xeliou66]

They are showing a season 2 marathon on Sundance today in memory of Paul Sorvino. Nice to see these episodes again, season 2 is one of my favorites.

Just watched God Bless The Child, this is a good episode, about the only time I was annoyed with Cerreta with how he seemed to be defending the parents at times. I liked Logan’s anger about the situation. Stone was really good in this episode, I loved his line about how the parents could martyr themselves but had no right to martyr their child, and his ending lines about how maybe this case and prosecution would prevent a child from dying at some point in the future.

I love the cast of season 2, all of the characters are great, and there’s not a single bad episode in the season.

[Xeliou66]

Watching Blood Is Thicker right now, what a fantastic episode this is, such a compelling plot with some great twists, and great detective and legal work. The snobby old mother/grandmother Ryder was just very annoying and elitist, and the murderer was just pathetic to the extreme. I loved when the judge sent Ryder’s ass to Rikers after he left the country and thought he could ignore his bail restrictions. Great trial scenes, I loved the stuff about the silver pin that was central to the case. This will always be one of my all time favorite episodes.

[Xeliou66]

Just watched a couple of good season 2 episodes, Asylum and God Bless The Child, both really strong episodes, fairly simple plots but really well done.

I like how in Asylum they figure out their were 2 guys involved in the stabbing and how they tracked them down, there were some memorable characters in this episode, especially “Lemonhead”, and this was the first time Olivet played a major role in a case with her consults. It was a very interesting case.

God Bless the Child is a really strong episode as well, Stone had some great lines in it, particularly when he said the Driscolls’ could martyr themselves but they had no right to martyr their child, and I loved his ending lines about how maybe this case would result in a child not dying in the future. I thought the trial scenes were really well done. I really like all of the characters in season 2, although Cerreta kind of annoyed me in God Bless the Child, I was on Logan’s side, not believing in any modern medicine and letting someone die as a result does make you a fanatic IMO, I wasn’t sure why Cerreta was so quick to defend the parents.

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Just watched a couple of good season 2 episodes, Asylum and God Bless The Child, both really strong episodes, fairly simple plots but really well done.

I like how in Asylum they figure out their were 2 guys involved in the stabbing and how they tracked them down, there were some memorable characters in this episode, especially “Lemonhead”, and this was the first time Olivet played a major role in a case with her consults. It was a very interesting case.

God Bless the Child is a really strong episode as well, Stone had some great lines in it, particularly when he said the Driscolls’ could martyr themselves but they had no right to martyr their child, and I loved his ending lines about how maybe this case would result in a child not dying in the future. I thought the trial scenes were really well done. I really like all of the characters in season 2, although Cerreta kind of annoyed me in God Bless the Child, I was on Logan’s side, not believing in any modern medicine and letting someone die as a result does make you a fanatic IMO, I wasn’t sure why Cerreta was so quick to defend the parents.

I don't know either. The parents' let their kid die because of a stupid religious reason rather than save her life. I'm all for religion but I refuse to believe that God wants that to happen. 

[Xeliou66]

21 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I don't know either. The parents' let their kid die because of a stupid religious reason rather than save her life. I'm all for religion but I refuse to believe that God wants that to happen. 

As Ben said if they wanted to martyr themselves because of their beliefs that was their choice but they had no right to let their child die because of their beliefs. They deserved to be prosecuted. I thought Logan was pretty spot on about them - letting your kid die because of your religious beliefs is fanatical. I wasn’t sure why Phil was defensive about it. 

[Spartan Girl]

17 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

As Ben said if they wanted to martyr themselves because of their beliefs that was their choice but they had no right to let their child die because of their beliefs. They deserved to be prosecuted. I thought Logan was pretty spot on about them - letting your kid die because of your religious beliefs is fanatical. I wasn’t sure why Phil was defensive about it. 

I don’t know why either. That’s the kind of thing I’d expect from Max, but I’m pretty sure even he would think the parents were being idiots. That episode premise is unfortunately even more relevant now than it was back then. 

[Xeliou66]

7 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I don’t know why either. That’s the kind of thing I’d expect from Max, but I’m pretty sure even he would think the parents were being idiots. That episode premise is unfortunately even more relevant now than it was back then. 

Yeah and that episode was based on a real case. Very tragic situation - not trying to offend anyone here but it’s very sad that someone could be so deluded as to let their child die because of their beliefs. None of it made sense, as Ben seemed to point out in court, the church leader testified that under certain emergencies a doctor could be consulted but a child dying apparently wasn’t an emergency. That’s just fucking crazy IMO, and I didn’t get why Phil acted so offended with Logan’s harsh words about them, because I thought Logan was spot on. It’s a very well done but tragic and sad episode.

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah and that episode was based on a real case. Very tragic situation - not trying to offend anyone here but it’s very sad that someone could be so deluded as to let their child die because of their beliefs. None of it made sense, as Ben seemed to point out in court, the church leader testified that under certain emergencies a doctor could be consulted but a child dying apparently wasn’t an emergency. That’s just fucking crazy IMO, and I didn’t get why Phil acted so offended with Logan’s harsh words about them, because I thought Logan was spot on. It’s a very well done but tragic and sad episode.

It is crazy. A child dying isn't an emergency. I can't imagine thinking that way or letting my child die without trying everything to save him or her.  I was taught that if you do everything to save someone who is ill. Take to the doctor, the ER, try every medical option and if none of it works then that is God's will. I tend to believe that. If it does work and the person is saved then it's God's will. My brother was very sick as a baby and it was a miracle that he lived or my dad still here after his heart attack. Where other family members where none of the treatments worked it was God's will.  

[andromeda331]

Watching God Bless This Child, Logan had a really great point when he was questioning the Reverend who said they were against modern medicine because their faith had been around for 300 years. Logan points out that electricity and central heating hadn't been around that long but they use it.  The Reverend never answers asking if his faith was on trial. Answer the question Reverend why is okay to use electricity but not doctors? 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Watching God Bless This Child, Logan had a really great point when he was questioning the Reverend who said they were against modern medicine because their faith had been around for 300 years. Logan points out that electricity and central heating hadn't been around that long but they use it.  The Reverend never answers asking if his faith was on trial. Answer the question Reverend why is okay to use electricity but not doctors? 

I haven’t seen this episode enough times or recently enough to recall specifics, but thinking of the general point of the plot, the Reverend *not* having an answer to the question 
(of why is it okay to use modern discoveries and inventions like electricity but not okay to use modern medical treatments)
is kind of the point: The Reverend has no answer. 
Right?

[Spartan Girl]

I had no idea the little girl in “God Bless the Child” was Michelle Trachtenberg!!!!!

Yeah, I know it’s cold, but I had zero empathy for those parents. People like them can mewl all they want about how they love their children and want what they believe is best for them, but actions speak louder than words, and those neglectful actions say they live their beliefs more than their children.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I haven’t seen this episode enough times or recently enough to recall specifics, but thinking of the general point of the plot, the Reverend *not* having an answer to the question 
(of why is it okay to use modern discoveries and inventions like electricity but not okay to use modern medical treatments)
is kind of the point: The Reverend has no answer. 
Right?

Here's the text of that portion of the episode transcript:

• [REVEREND] Our sect is descended from the Swiss Brethren, like the Amish or the Hutterites.
• [LOGAN] Except that you don't use doctors.
• [REVEREND] We've been around for 300 years, long before modern medicine.
• [LOGAN] Hold on. You use electricity, central heating. You were around long before them, too.
• [REVEREND] Detective, do I really have to defend my religious beliefs to the police?

 

17 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah, I know it’s cold, but I had zero empathy for those parents. People like them can mewl all they want about how they love their children and want what they believe is best for them, but actions speak louder than words, and those neglectful actions say they live their beliefs more than their children.

Yeah. They were brainwashed, but if/when the fog of that brainwashing lifts, I think those parents would have to agree with you and admit to themselves and the world that they were unfit, abusive, even murderous parents.
So if they come up for parole and admit they were wrong and regret it, they might get out earlier, hopefully, than if they come up for parole and say they were following their religion. 

More transcript:

• [JUDGE] The defendant Nancy Driscoll, on the charge of endangering the welfare of a child, - how does the jury find?
• [JURY FOREPERSON] We find the defendant not guilty.
• [JUDGE] The defendant Theodore Driscoll on the charge of manslaughter in the second degree, how does the jury find?
• [JURY FOREPERSON] We find the defendant...guilty.
• [JUDGE] The defendant Nancy Driscoll, on the charge of manslaughter in the second degree, how does the jury find?
• [JURY FOREPERSON] We find the defendant guilty.

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I had no idea the little girl in “God Bless the Child” was Michelle Trachtenberg!!!!!

Yeah, I know it’s cold, but I had zero empathy for those parents. People like them can mewl all they want about how they love their children and want what they believe is best for them, but actions speak louder than words, and those neglectful actions say they live their beliefs more than their children.

They really do. They can say they love their child all they want but they let her die. It was more important that they "prove" themselves to their faith then their child. Then it comes out that the father did call 911 but his wife insisted he hang up. She testified that saving his soul was more important than saving her daughter. This was the second time they allowed their child to die that could be saved. A faith that already had some contradictions. I know most do. But most parents would do anything to save their child and pray or assume that their God or Gods will understand. Most parents if it was a choice of saving their soul and their child's life would save their child in a heart beat. It wouldn't even be a choice. The Driscolls did not deserve either of their children. 

[Xeliou66]

I also had zero sympathy for the parents in God Bless the Child, they were nuts who cared more about themselves and their faith than their child. I really didn’t get why Cerreta acted so defensive of them at the start. I do like the episode a lot though and as I’ve said before I thought Ben had a great line about how they had no right to make their child a martyr for their faith. The trial scenes were really good.

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I also had zero sympathy for the parents in God Bless the Child, they were nuts who cared more about themselves and their faith than their child. I really didn’t get why Cerreta acted so defensive of them at the start. I do like the episode a lot though and as I’ve said before I thought Ben had a great line about how they had no right to make their child a martyr for their faith. The trial scenes were really good.

Ben's line was perfect. He was right. Cerreta was the only weird part in a great episode. Why he was so defensive? The closest was him telling Logan he wasn't a parent. He has no idea how a parent feels and he's certain they loved their kid. How does he know they loved their kid when they let her die. If she had been treated she would have lived. The mother was refusing help for her daughter in the ER.  The head doctor had to get involved to over rule her wishes and she was furious over that. 

[Xeliou66]

5 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Ben's line was perfect. He was right. Cerreta was the only weird part in a great episode. Why he was so defensive? The closest was him telling Logan he wasn't a parent. He has no idea how a parent feels and he's certain they loved their kid. How does he know they loved their kid when they let her die. If she had been treated she would have lived. The mother was refusing help for her daughter in the ER.  The head doctor had to get involved to over rule her wishes and she was furious over that. 

I also liked Ben’s lines at the end about although the parents might not receive much punishment, the case would go on the books and people would remember and maybe a child wouldn’t die in the future as a result. This was one of many great episodes for Ben. I agree it’s a great episode, really well done but Phil was weird in it, I didn’t get why he was so defensive of the parents.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I also liked Ben’s lines at the end about although the parents might not receive much punishment, the case would go on the books and people would remember and maybe a child wouldn’t die in the future as a result. This was one of many great episodes for Ben. I agree it’s a great episode, really well done but Phil was weird in it, I didn’t get why he was so defensive of the parents.

I hope he's wrong and they do receive punishment.

[Xeliou66]

I just watched Confession, the episode where Greevey was murdered, it’s a really good episode. I liked seeing everyone’s reactions to Greevey’s death, and it was a good case, Logan was understandably upset but he was out of line forcing a confession from the killer at gunpoint, and he should’ve known better. He was fortunate the DA’s were able to find another way to get the murder weapon admitted and convict the killer. I understood why Schiff was so upset about the situation, and Logan deserved his suspension. I liked Logan’s scenes with Olivet, good introduction to Olivet. 
It was a great introduction to Cerreta as well, he fit in well from the start. Cragen had a lot of good scenes in it also, which made sense since he was Greevey’s old partner and friend, I liked how Cragen and Logan were pallbearers at Greevey’s funeral. 
It’s a really good episode, strong case and compelling storyline. Season 2 is a really great season. 

[andromeda331]

On 4/6/2023 at 2:08 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I just watched Confession, the episode where Greevey was murdered, it’s a really good episode. I liked seeing everyone’s reactions to Greevey’s death, and it was a good case, Logan was understandably upset but he was out of line forcing a confession from the killer at gunpoint, and he should’ve known better. He was fortunate the DA’s were able to find another way to get the murder weapon admitted and convict the killer. I understood why Schiff was so upset about the situation, and Logan deserved his suspension. I liked Logan’s scenes with Olivet, good introduction to Olivet. 
It was a great introduction to Cerreta as well, he fit in well from the start. Cragen had a lot of good scenes in it also, which made sense since he was Greevey’s old partner and friend, I liked how Cragen and Logan were pallbearers at Greevey’s funeral. 
It’s a really good episode, strong case and compelling storyline. Season 2 is a really great season. 

He was absolutely out of line in forcing that confession. I hate that he has the nerve to be upset when it comes out and tries to claim it's the same thing that ADAs do when threatening to tell secrets for the same thing. Ah, no, Mike it's not. He's pretty much an example why it's a bad idea for a partner to be out hunting the person who killed their partner. It's too easy to go too far and think it's justified because of what the defendent did. I'm glad he got better. I like his scenes with Olivet too. Showing him going through the five stages even though he doesn't think he is. It was great seeing everyone else's reactions and I'm glad they showed us a little of the funeral (I'll never get over them doing nothing for Lennie}. Poor Marie. That's a horrible thing to witness. The whole episode was really good. It's one of the best. I like the investigation and where it lead. I even like the witness who said he wasn't stupid enough to kill a cop. Yeah, that really is stupid. It's a great way to bring down the whole police department and DA on you. I like at the end Mike finally accepts it but he doesn't.