S16: Ayana Ife

[Drogo]

Discuss Ayana here!

[Guest]

I loved her designs.

Then she talked about being a person of faith and in the next sentence talked about being a bitch. Girlfriend,  you are one or the other, chose a lane.

Has anyone described Mother Teresa, Catherine Booth, or Esther as a bitch?

[guilfoyleatpp]

Christopher Hitchens probably called Mother Teresa a bitch.  

On another note, is there a term for the type of fashion she does? So many houses now have a line that works for Muslim women who want to be fashionable and modestly dressed. There should be a term. I don't recall hearing them mention it when they interviewed her.

[ratgirlagogo]

3 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

Christopher Hitchens probably called Mother Teresa a bitch.  

Although he was not a fan I don't know that he ever called her a bitch.  This is WAY off topic but she doesn't have the fanbase in India that she has in Europe and the US.  ( Her order does not and never did run hospitals, for one thing - they are a teaching order.)  This Wikipedia link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aroup_Chatterjee

is about an Indian physician who wrote an expose of her order (which inspired Hitchens to write his own book and TV documentary) - he testified as a devil's advocate against her canonization.

Edited August 19, 2017 by ratgirlagogo

[sleepyjean]

It's interesting that she auditioned as Ayana Muhammad, then changed it to Ayana Ife. Is Ife her professional "designer name" or did she just change it so she wouldn't have to deal with any ignorant BS about her religion? Not that the hijab isn't a big enough clue that she's Muslim.

[Special K]

I'm curious as to why Ayana always (except in the Shopkins challenge, which she rocked) seems to style her models with a head scarf or head covering.  I mean, I know she is all about modest fashion, but Muslim women are not the only market for modest fashion, which would include orthodox Jewish women, and even fundamentalist Christians.

I'm just curious.  Unless she really wants only to serve Muslim women.  I think it would be awesome to be a designer for pan-faith modest women!

[speac]

Personally I find that head coverings and scarves can actually be very flattering and highlight a woman's face .

Every designer on this show since it began will appeal to a niche market.  Ayana is designing for hers. It is much larger than say those who would buy the an Austin Scarlett gown, a Chloe Dao dress .   There are over 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and over 3 million in the US so it isn't as if she is limiting herself to a very small population.  

[Diane Mars]

3 hours ago, Special K said:

I'm curious as to why Ayana always (except in the Shopkins challenge, which she rocked) seems to style her models with a head scarf or head covering.  I mean, I know she is all about modest fashion, but Muslim women are not the only market for modest fashion, which would include orthodox Jewish women, and even fundamentalist Christians.

I'm just curious.  Unless she really wants only to serve Muslim women.  I think it would be awesome to be a designer for pan-faith modest women!

If the collection presented by who I think is Ayana at the FW is really hers, you'd be really surprised ! (if interested, it's in the FW topic, but, of course, with spoilers)

Edited October 18, 2017 by Diane Mars

[TudorQueen]

Orthodox Jewish women, who are expected to be extremely modest, are also required to cover their heads. In fact, they wear wigs and then a hat or scarf over the wig.  

I adore Ayana. I think her designs are beautiful and generally well-constructed. And she's an absolute doll, warm and friendly, but focused on her work (without any of this 'I'm not here to make friends' stuff). She seems to like everyone and they all seem to like her. She's funny and she's warm and she hugs everyone, but she's not pushy. I also love the way she has a specific aesthetic and a cultural/spiritual reason for it, but will stretch that to satisfy a client (the model-on-the-go challenge and the 'family and friends of the crew challenge').  I also thought she rocked the avant-garde challenge.

She was relegated to the middle of the pack a lot after her one challenge win, but has survived, and I don't think any of the previous 'modest' designers have gotten this far.

[kizmagiz]

I don't really understand how skintight clothing is modest, is it only about not showing skin?
I really liked this unconventional dress, it was a nod to 1980's YSL haute couture, and the perfect model to show it of. 

[sleepyjean]

I like Ayana a lot as a person, but I don't like her clothes. Everything she's made that's her look (in other words not avant-garde or unconventional materials) has bored me to tears. Her portfolio is a series of slim fit, long sleeve mock turtlenecks paired with long flowy skirts or plants. It doesn't vary much and there's nothing fresh about it.

[lilwhitelion]

On 10/19/2017 at 7:18 PM, TudorQueen said:

Orthodox Jewish women, who are expected to be extremely modest, are also required to cover their heads. In fact, they wear wigs and then a hat or scarf over the wig.  

I adore Ayana. I think her designs are beautiful and generally well-constructed. And she's an absolute doll, warm and friendly, but focused on her work (without any of this 'I'm not here to make friends' stuff). She seems to like everyone and they all seem to like her. She's funny and she's warm and she hugs everyone, but she's not pushy. I also love the way she has a specific aesthetic and a cultural/spiritual reason for it, but will stretch that to satisfy a client (the model-on-the-go challenge and the 'family and friends of the crew challenge').  I also thought she rocked the avant-garde challenge.

She was relegated to the middle of the pack a lot after her one challenge win, but has survived, and I don't think any of the previous 'modest' designers have gotten this far.

She reminds me of Nadiya Hussain from the Great British Bake Off.  

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/nadiya-hussain-great-british-bake-off-token-muslim-radio-times-interview-a7834991.html

[Special K]

On 10/19/2017 at 10:18 PM, TudorQueen said:

Orthodox Jewish women, who are expected to be extremely modest, are also required to cover their heads. In fact, they wear wigs and then a hat or scarf over the wig. 

I know this is true, but there are also Orthodox Jewish women who have different standards of modesty.  I used to run with a few of them and they covered their bodies pretty completely but ran without any head covering.  Mayim Bialik is an example of this kind of modesty (I believe that is her real hair we see).

And even farther afield -- what about people like the Duggars (Quiverfull Christians) or other evangelicals, LDS, etc.  Those women dress modestly, but without head covering.

I just think the "modest" market is more diverse, but I do agree that there are a lot of Muslim women in the US/world and I'm certain their fashion needs have been largely unmet or ignored.  I'm an Ayana fan.  As both an actual designer and a trailblazer.  And she is also a lovely person.

 

ETA:  I guess I just think it would be cool for Ayana to be a kind of cross-cultural ambassador.  Like how cool would it be if she was the chosen designer for a non-Muslim modest celebrity?  Fashion as cultural bridge!

Edited October 24, 2017 by Special K

[TudorQueen]

Quote

She reminds me of Nadiya Hussain from the Great British Bake Off.

She reminds me of Nadya, too! Thank you for pointing that out because I knew she reminded me of someone but wasn't sure who it was!

Nadya won TGBB, didn't she? I remember rooting for her. 

[lilwhitelion]

She did win TGBB.  I loved her and I'm warming up to Anaya as her personality is coming through.

[rereader2]

On 10/19/2017 at 10:18 PM, TudorQueen said:

Orthodox Jewish women, who are expected to be extremely modest, are also required to cover their heads. In fact, they wear wigs and then a hat or scarf over the wig.  

Being an Orthodox Jewish woman myself, I can speak with some authority on the matter, and that's not quite correct. First of all, even the most far-right Orthodox do not require or even suggest that unmarried women cover their hair at all--that applies to married women only. Then too there is a wide range of practices that qualify as Orthodox, and while all agree women should dress "modestly," the definition of "modest" varies widely. When it comes to hair, not all Orthodox communities require married women to cover their hair at all, and among those that do, the amount of covering can be anywhere from a small hat to full-coverage of all hair. It is only a very small segment on the far right that require (married) women to cover their hair with both wigs and hats.

[TudorQueen]

Thank you so much for those excellent clarifications and corrections. I do try to be accurate, so you were a huge help.

 

I got my information from some reading (not enough, clearly), and from exposure to two Orthodox communities. I needed to dig deeper.  I did know that only married women need to cover their hair in that matter - some sort of citation comes to mind about the husband being the only one who can see his wife's 'naked' hair, and implications that it is an intimate moment.  Thank you again, and I truly hope I didn't offend you, or other Orthodox Jews who read this forum.

[rereader2]

12 hours ago, TudorQueen said:

Thank you so much for those excellent clarifications and corrections. I do try to be accurate, so you were a huge help.

 

I got my information from some reading (not enough, clearly), and from exposure to two Orthodox communities. I needed to dig deeper.  I did know that only married women need to cover their hair in that matter - some sort of citation comes to mind about the husband being the only one who can see his wife's 'naked' hair, and implications that it is an intimate moment.  Thank you again, and I truly hope I didn't offend you, or other Orthodox Jews who read this forum.

You certainly did not offend me--and I'm glad I didn't offend you. 

There are any number of reasons offered for why married Orthodox women who cover their hair do so, but the only Torah source for the practice is rather round-the-back: In the passage about a trial for a woman accused her of cheating on her husband, it says the High Priest should uncover her hair. The reasoning goes that to be uncovered it must have been covered, and if it is uncovered in such a situation, it would be against her will; it must be that it is more respected and honorable for it to be covered.