Past Seasons Talk: A Mystery Writer and NYC Detectives Solve Crimes

[pepper]

 

 

He was away from the city for a few weeks, working on a deadline for his new novel.

What kind of friend has to be in touch constantly?

 

I think it was way more than "a few weeks". He was finishing the book at the start and signing the book at the end. Publishing a book takes more than a few weeks. Even booking the stores where signings will happen requires more than a couple of weeks' notice, never mind making props like life-size cardboard cut-outs of the author.

 

And the "stay on top of me" double entendre of Gina's presence in the Hamptons clearly implied that he wasn't just going to work. Writing does not require assistance unless it's live feedback from an editor or research contacts. So the whole precinct knew that when he wasn't writing he'd be banging Gina. Either thing would be awkward to interrupt, unless the person told you it was done/they were back in town/their lover was back in the city. MMV but that makes logical sense to me.

 

I didn't view the season 2 finale as a shark-jumper, but it did undermine the idea that Castle and Beckett were building something solid. I didn't have an issue with her excluding him from interrogation, since he'd been peeing on her leg (dog reference) without actually doing anything to indicate long-term interest and I understand why that would be annoying: being treated like property without any commitment. He did the same thing when Will was in town, leading Beckett to offer to take out her tape measure. Except Demming didn't come with baggage and Castle had way more time to do more than "pull her pigtails" in the interim. That said, she also didn't make the first grown-up move!

 

I felt Castle's pain and then Beckett's heartbreak. The only part of that I still don't like - so I delete re-runs unseen - is Gina. Were they really so cheap that they couldn't hire another actress to be Castle's rebound love affair? He'd spoken so badly about her and about their marriage that it made no sense. Either he was lying about a woman behind her back,  or she really was cold, mean-spirited and sexless. Neither was a solid foundation for a reunion and neither shed a positive light on Castle as a man. 

[verdana]

This may be simplistic, but is it possible that the plot-driven vs. character-driven issues of the past few seasons have something to do with trying to maintain some appeal to a male audience, who  are presumably more entertained by pratfall humor and puzzle-solving?

I've certainly noticed an increase in the slapstick and rather crass humor instead of the more nuanced comedy that the show used to do so well. I gather Castle is supposedly most popular with women viewers in their mid fifties yet I find the writing is increasingly aiming towards a much younger audience who lap up the rather immature sexual teasing and chatter which replaces grown up dialogue of the kind I would expect to see on a 10 p.m. show. I just wish they'd write them more like grown ups, I have to pinch myself sometimes to remember Castle is close to my own age. May be this has nothing to do with trying to attract a younger demo male or female, may be MilMar just can't write mature relationships that well. 

 

They've also made Castle less threatening by having him fall in love, he's become the harmless goofy guy who everyone can make fun of when required as he gets into the latest scrape or clumsily puts his foot in it but remains oblivious of course. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard him called an "adorable goober" to me that's not a compliment to the character but a sad reflection of what the writers have moulded him into. I miss that slight hard edge he had (coupled with the obvious sharp intelligence and intuition that lay behind the childlike fun he used to exhibit) but I sense they felt it was too threatening for the teenage girls on tumblr wrapped up in adorable Caskett cuteness and sweetness talking about "naps" and "fonts" etc so they erased it. 

Edited May 4, 2015 by verdana

[oberon55]

I have a question. Did anyone else at the funeral hear Castle or was it only Beckett?

[McManda]

I have a question. Did anyone else at the funeral hear Castle or was it only Beckett?

 

You mean his ILY confession? I assume it was only Beckett, considering he was pretty much on top of her at the time. But I'm not sure why no one was rushing to help - you can hear Esposito yelling "Beckett's down, Beckett's down!", and unless she was pretty much commanded by Esposito to not move, I don't really see why Lanie wasn't there to offer her medical expertise - but I like to think that everyone was still trying to make sure they weren't going to get shot, too, giving Castle time for a private confession.

[KaveDweller]

You mean his ILY confession? I assume it was only Beckett, considering he was pretty much on top of her at the time. But I'm not sure why no one was rushing to help - you can hear Esposito yelling "Beckett's down, Beckett's down!", and unless she was pretty much commanded by Esposito to not move, I don't really see why Lanie wasn't there to offer her medical expertise - but I like to think that everyone was still trying to make sure they weren't going to get shot, too, giving Castle time for a private confession.

 

Esposito definitely was holding Lanie down at that point, trying to stop her from getting shot.  I think everyone else was trying to either not get shot or was trying to catch the shooter.  Big fail on that second one.  A funeral full of cops and no one even came close to seeing Maddox?

 

I assume people did approach Castle and Beckett pretty much immediately after the episode ended, but probably didn't hear the confession.

[McManda]

I'm bored, so I went to double check.

 

After Beckett is shot you can hear the following people in the background:

 

- Ryan?: "Where'd the shot come from?"

- Esposito: "Lanie, get down!"

- Random guy: "The shooter's over there."

- Another random guy: "The shot came from "

- Ryan (sorry, not Espo like I thought): "Beckett's down, Beckett's down!"

 

You can see people running past where Castle and Beckett are on the ground, which is odd if the shooter was in the other direction. (She was shot head on in the chest, Castle tackles her onto her back, and people are running ... to the area behind where she was standing?) No one stops to find out what's going on.

 

I still think that it's plausible that no one heard Castle, probably out of a sense of self-preservation. I'm not a cop so maybe it's just me, but if I heard a gunshot in my immediate area I'd be down on the ground for a good long while. But given that these people are mostly cops, I would have thought that there would be some sense of urgency, especially once they realized one of their own was shot.

 

But hey, this is a story, right? It plays out better if it's a private confession. I think there are a few stories that were written between S3 and S4 that played with the idea that Lanie heard, though.

[KaveDweller]

Remember, we saw all that background conversation right before we saw Castle saying ILY.  But in reality I think they were taking place at the same time.  Beckett got shot and while Castle was tackling her, Espo was protecting Lanie and Ryan was shouting about Beckett being down.  We just couldn't see it all at the same time so we saw it one after the other.  It must have happened pretty fast. If this had been 24 they would have done that split screen thing where you saw what important thing all the characters were up to at once.

[madmaverick]

So apparently it's 3 years since Always aired today.  I would be interested to hear people's thoughts on the post-Always Caskett together period if anyone wants to share and how they compare it to the WT/WT period.  Has it lived up to their expectations?  Moonlighting curse or not, do you think something has been lost (or gained) from ending the Caskett chase and getting them together?  Which period do you like better, pre-Always or post?

Edited May 7, 2015 by madmaverick

[Gant]

Firmly pre-Always. I felt that writing was much stronger, and seeing as my interest in potential Caskett has been steadily waning through seasons 3-4, I as a viewer had nothing to gain from them getting together. Season 4 seemed so gloomy and forced to me (funny, by comparison with the following seasons it now looks OK, with more good episodes than bad, and it was also the season during which I started watching the show) that I at least hoped that getting the WTWT out of the way, might free TPTB and Castle writers creatively, and this strange slump the characters have fallen into, would end. But IMO it got only worse for the characters since then.

[zen415]

 I agree that over the last two seasons there's been a lack of balance (a familiar complaint) with Castle being more put upon and him not being allowed to hit back and make fun of them as he used to do. Then there's Espo inexplicable pissy behaviour towards him that's been going on for ages that no one can get to the bottom of.

 

That still doesn't completely explain to me why Espo acts the way he does to Castle on some occasions and it's been confusing and upsetting quite a few, once again fans need to read an interview in order to understand the character's motives.

 

I wish they would show more moments between the boys and Castle, build on that friendship. It would make the money-grabbing much less annoying. Anyway, I agree with you about Esposito. That would require a abckstory that was never provided: Was he betrayed by someone he trusted? Did he witness a rich guy getting away with criems because of his fortune? Did Castle remind him of a classmate of him who went on the wrong path? There are so many options and it would provide such a good opportunity for exploring that relationship.

 

Plot driven storytelling has its place but it shouldn't take over and start to consume the characters where they start frequently doing things that don't make any sense and I can feel the strings being pulled by the writers. Castle over the last few seasons has become almost completely plot driven at the expense of good characterisation and that imbalance has had repercussions. I can often see the machinations of the writers in having the characters suddenly do something that's a big WTF and trying to explain it away and make sense of it takes increasing amounts of ingenuity. It gets to the point where saying you "know" the character is pretty much impossible because they can do and say anything there is no "in character" any more, they will do whatever the plot demands. 

I totally agree with everything you just said. What makes a good show, in my opinion, is that you can recognize how a character will act when they are faced to a plot device. You understand their motivations even if you don't agree with them. You don't have to like it but you can relate to them. That has been missing for awhile on Castle. However, I find that I recognize the characters more this season than I have in awhile.

 

Yeah, she definitely said she lied in that episode.  I think she always remembered.

 

But symptoms of PTSD also include avoiding talking about the event and avoiding people/things that remind you of the event, as well as having trouble with relationships.  So, I think that was a factor in her not admitting the truth to Castle (and for not calling him while she was recovering). She probably wished she did forget the whole thing.  That doesn't mean Castle didn't get to be hurt by the whole thing, but Beckett was also kind of a mess at the time.

 

Exactly! This storyine would have been so amazing if they had dealt with it properly instead of just making it a plot device to stop Cadtle and Beckett from being together. You could understand both parties, feel the turmoil and give hope at the same time but no, instead we have stupid Jacinda and clueless Beckett. Sigh. What a waste.

 

 

I think the problem is that she started only getting storylines that related to boys, which makes her much less interesting as a character and harder to sympathize with.  I know teenage girls are going to have issues with boys, but there's so many more angles they could have gone with Alexis.

 

Good point. Instead having her be all about boys all the time, it could have been about her struggling in college, being homesick, her adjusting to Beckett in her father's life, her being confused about what she wanted to do later on, her missing her Mom, etc. A bit like Martha this season where she is out with men but is also going back to Broadway. It would have added so much more depth to her character to know who she is.

[zen415]

So apparently it's 3 years since Always aired today.  I would be interested to hear people's thoughts on the post-Always Caskett together period if anyone wants to share and how they compare it to the WT/WT period.  Has it lived up to their expectations?  Moonlighting curse or not, do you think something has been lost (or gained) from ending the Caskett chase and getting them together?  Which period do you like better, pre-Always or post?

 

I don't think they could have extended the WT/WT period more they did. Season 4 felt like they were trying too hard to keep them apart because the exectution sucked even if the ideas were not bad. I don't know how they could have extended it more without losing fans: I know it annoyed me on The Mentalist because I just felt jerked around and watched only from time to time after awhile because of that.

 

Although there was some cute moments between Castle and Beckett after they got together, I think they definitely missed the boat on the honeymoon period. If they had had the same good writing as Seasons 1-3, I think Caskett together would have been awesome but they just seemed to go from plot device to plot device: sometimes it worked, sometimes it did not.

 

I'm not sure if I can choose pre-Always vs post-Always because there are some super cool moments when they are together post always that I love even if I think the show was consistently better from Seasons 1-3. 

[KaveDweller]

I think I'd have to say post-Always.  That will probably be an unpopular opinion since the show was more well-written in the early seasons, but I just love Caskett  together and so that's where I lean. There was plenty of missed opportunities after they got together, and that continues to be the case, but I still like seeing them together.  The writing probably would have declined either way, so if it declined and they still weren't together it would have gotten annoying.  One thing I liked about Castle is once they were together, they were together.  None of this on and off crap that some shows try and do.....nothing makes me lose interest in a couple more than all that back and forth.

 

Although I do think in any WT/WT, the most fun part of the story usually happens right before the actual hook up. When you are waiting in every episode for something to happen between them, and any touch is a big deal.  That was definitely true with Castle, I remember being so excited that Beckett held Castle's hand in a season 4 episode.  It's a feeling that you just can't have once a couple is together.  It can still be great, but it is just a different kind of great.  

[Sonik Tooth]

I’m also firmly on the pre-Always side, for several different reasons.

 

Castle has always been a procedural TV series but for me to enjoy procedurals, they need to have a framework sticking  individual episodes together. The WT/WT trope was a strong one, to a lesser extent Beckett’s mother (less because unfortunately it was referred to irregularly) and the Castle home scenes (as in what are Martha and Alexis up to in the next episode).

 

After Always most of the framework was gone, and as far as I remember it hasn’t been replaced by anything consistent. The growing non-work related relationship between Beckett and Castle that could have been a draw, was as enlightening as Castle’s vanishing “arc” this season.  Meaning no consistent direction of travel, problems occurring as unexpected as they would vanish without consequences, nearly no involvement of other establishes characters and a hit and miss in tone (dramatic vs comedic). That doesn’t mean that individual episodes weren’t enjoyable, but I don’t want to clear my mind of the show’s recent history every time I watch a new episode.

 

Additionally, I’m not a TV-couples person. I watch for all kind of relationships and how they play out in different settings and circumstances. So having Beckett and Castle hook up means nothing to me, if they can’t formulate a cohesive and interesting (in the eye of the beholder) story.

 

Lastly, I still think the premise of the show was even more jeopardized after Always. You need a great amount of suspension of disbelief for a writer following around his detective muse unless you emphasize the comedic part of the story. Which they mostly did, I think. Also, for the WT/WT part to get resolved, Castle was needed at Beckett’s side. Now it feels, like something is off once in a while. Partly because the increased security issue of the untrained fiancé/ husband  was never addressed (neither Beckett nor Gates), partly because the show has pitched Beckett as a dramatic and Castle as a comedic character more prominently since then (or even before).

[verdana]

So apparently it's 3 years since Always aired today.  I would be interested to hear people's thoughts on the post-Always Caskett together period if anyone wants to share and how they compare it to the WT/WT period.  Has it lived up to their expectations?  Moonlighting curse or not, do you think something has been lost (or gained) from ending the Caskett chase and getting them together?  Which period do you like better, pre-Always or post?

I'm with Gant to some degree.  The writing was much better pre Always, things felt fresher and Castle and Beckett seemed bizarrely better fleshed out and more convincing as characters back than they do now where I find Castle sadly has become more caricature then anything else and Beckett after her Hollywood makeover to generic kick ass gorgeosity increasingly unrelatable. The WTWT gave the show some great moments which don't have the same frisson now they're a couple. The first hand hold! The first kiss! The yearning looks and so on. The writers seem incapable of depicting them in a proper grown up relationship and it's sometimes painful to watch their struggles. I wouldn't go as far as saying that nothing has been gained from getting them together because they couldn't have carried on as they were and I'm a shipper that's what I wanted but the post Always Caskett has been a big disappointment. I was on a total high for weeks that summer with the endless possibilities now in hindsight I feel like I've played for a fool.

 

TPTB might have said they were not worried about the "Moonlighting Curse" but they were clearly terrified of fans losing interest once they hooked up and the writing since then had reflected this, its been marked by a state of nervous hesitancy and a feeling that they're constantly holding back with this couple. What disappoints me so much is that they had this amazing opportunity to explore them as a couple and all the wonderful heady first weeks and months of a new relationship and really play up the chemistry between the leads and they backed off and instead started finding ways to keep them separated whenever possible as they hauled them painfully through every hurdle from dating to marriage but refused to show me anything meaningful along the way with most of it happening off screen. If I did get something it was very brief and made me frustrated at what we could have had with a little creative imagination and willpower.

Edited May 9, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

I'm not sure if I can choose pre-Always vs post-Always because there are some super cool moments when they are together post always that I love even if I think the show was consistently better from Seasons 1-3.

Yeah I agree so it's difficult for me to come down absolutely on one side or the other but when I'm looking at the entire series picking my favourite episodes or scenes that the vast majority seem to occur prior to their hook up and it seems the writers feel the same way. I thought it was revealing that when Terri did the AU episode she tweeted something making reference to the various call backs or something and I thought yeah you know when the high point of this show was in terms of the writing for them.

 

I agree with you about Esposito. That would require a abckstory that was never provided: Was he betrayed by someone he trusted? Did he witness a rich guy getting away with criems because of his fortune? Did Castle remind him of a classmate of him who went on the wrong path? There are so many options and it would provide such a good opportunity for exploring that relationship.

That's a problem they have with many of the characters not just Esposito who has consistently annoyed me with his attitude but I'd be far less frustrated if I knew where he was coming from even if I still thought he was being an arsehole at least I would have an explanation for why the character feels this way. As a writer you have to give the audience reasons why characters act as they do but on Castle a character will suddenly start behaving off and I'm left thinking is it my imagination and my own bias? It there something there?  

 

An example of this was during S5 when Castle seemed to lose complete interest in Beckett and I couldn't see what the reason was and I wasn't the only one and this lead to fans speculating most of the season with discussions on Fillion's attitude, the writers, directors etc because it was so bizarre and it's never been properly explained by any one. I disagree with those fans saying it was clearly a lead in to the problems that started in Squab because this didn't explain why they made Beckett completely oblivious, she carried on acting as loved up as ever which made no sense whatsoever if that's the approach they were taking. On Castle with characters motivations it's join the dots storytelling but the dots are so fucking far apart sometimes it's almost impossible to make the link at least to me it is.

Edited May 9, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

After Always most of the framework was gone, and as far as I remember it hasn’t been replaced by anything consistent. The growing non-work related relationship between Beckett and Castle that could have been a draw, was as enlightening as Castle’s vanishing “arc” this season.  Meaning no consistent direction of travel, problems occurring as unexpected as they would vanish without consequences, nearly no involvement of other establishes characters and a hit and miss in tone (dramatic vs comedic). That doesn’t mean that individual episodes weren’t enjoyable, but I don’t want to clear my mind of the show’s recent history every time I watch a new episode.

Well said, I find they've also used the comedy aspect as yet another barrier to the relationship. I've lost count of the number of times what could have been a sweet, romantic moment is ruined by slapstick humor and it tends to trivialise everything and make their relationship feel rather superficial to me, there's a time and place for everything and I wish instead of giving me stupid angst out of nowhere or crass humor where Castle cracks a not very funny joke they gave me some genuinely meaningful moments between them. Edited May 9, 2015 by verdana

[WendyCR72]

If you still want to discuss S7 episodes, you may still generally do so here [as it is now technically a "past season"] or go to the newly-created S7 archived subforum now coupled with S6. Thanks!

[femmefan1946]

My gosh!  A poster on TV Fanatic actually came up with a reason for the 'forgotten marraige' plot and makes it possible to revisit the kidnapping story (ugh!) from a totally logical (for TV) premise.

I hope this isn't subject to copyright.

Beckstle to Benny Whaley • a day ago

Oh, but that marriage doesn't really exist. I mean the only time it turned up was in that ridiculous season 6 finale. The attorney general background check didn't find it. These guys did a complete political vetting of her but didn't find it either. Being married to an ex-con - for 15 years no less - is not something that would be missed. The simplest explanation is that Beckett's recollection of it not being legal is correct and Rick's kidnappers planted the phony document in order to separate him and Kate so that it'd be easier to kidnap him. :D

[McManda]

I'll accept it. They have the ability to erase memories and smuggle people out of the country on secret missions ... planting a fake marriage license (with a sorta/kinda reasonable explanation behind it) would  be easy for them.

[zen415]

OMG! That is brilliant! I will totally accept this retcon because I hate both these stories so much. They can mention it in an episode and then never mention it again.

[oberon55]

I will go along with them being able to plant a fake document but how the hell could they know what happened on a drunken night 15 years ago in Vegas if it was not real. It almost requires Rogan to be part of it. It kind of makes it worse to think he was intentionally playing Beckett the whole time.

[KaveDweller]

I will go along with them being able to plant a fake document but how the hell could they know what happened on a drunken night 15 years ago in Vegas if it was not real. It almost requires Rogan to be part of it. It kind of makes it worse to think he was intentionally playing Beckett the whole time.

 

Maybe they implanted fake memories in Rogan's head the way they put fake memories in Castle's head about his debate trophy. Maybe they put fake memories in Beckett's head too and she never even knew Rogan. 

[WendyCR72]

Implanted memories? Is this Star Trek?  :-)

 

I know most hated the Rogan arc, but in this case, some of the solutions sound worse than the mistake! (JMO.) I think it's best left alone. Not like it'll ever come up again, anyway, I'd bet.

[KaveDweller]

Implanted memories? Is this Star Trek?  :-)

 

I know most hated the Rogan arc, but in this case, some of the solutions sound worse than the mistake! (JMO.) I think it's best left alone. Not like it'll ever come up again, anyway, I'd bet.

 

Hey, the show has stated that it's possible in the Castle-verse. 

 

I really just pretend that storyline never happened.  It doesn't ruin anything for me.  If I was able to change storylines on the show I'd pick several things over the past marriage thing.

[zen415]

Implanted memories? Is this Star Trek?  :-)

 

I know most hated the Rogan arc, but in this case, some of the solutions sound worse than the mistake! (JMO.) I think it's best left alone. Not like it'll ever come up again, anyway, I'd bet.

 

 

Hey, the show has stated that it's possible in the Castle-verse. 

 

I really just pretend that storyline never happened.  It doesn't ruin anything for me.  If I was able to change storylines on the show I'd pick several things over the past marriage thing.

 

Hey, implanted memories, time-travel, anything at this point to change that Rogan-marriage. ;) Although, you are right Wendy, it probably will never get mentionned again, like the douchebag arc in Season 4.

 

I don't know why this past marriage broke me: I can take a lot of stupidity but this was it. I agree there are several things which could be changed in the past but for some reason, that past marriage is the thing that bothers me the most even if I pretend it never happened. I guess because, as we discussed in this thread above, it was such a complete retcon of who Beckett is, the whole "one and done" and just such an obvious obstacle to delay the wedding for no good reason. I'm not an idiot and I hate being taken for granted by showrunners who think viewers have to accept any lame storyline thrown their way.  Maybe it was just the last straw?  

[verdana]

The Rogan business was the worst and to even think about revisiting that story fills me with dread. The explanation that it was implanted memories is going back into sci fic territory again which is a sign on this show they can't get out of the hole they're written in any other way. They would have to include Rogan and his girlfriend who I seem to recall also knew about the early marriage and the whole thing gets sillier by the second. 
 

I'm not an idiot and I hate being taken for granted by showrunners who think viewers have to accept any lame storyline thrown their way.  Maybe it was just the last straw?

That was the problem for a lot of fans that it was obvious MilMar thought their audience were idiots who would accept any shit shovelled their way and lap it up, I find that insulting and they got the negative reaction they deserved for pulling that cheap stunt. Not only that but what happened there reverberated throughout the rest of the season. 
 
In a interview they did with a fan that was mentioned on the IMDB forum they were asked how no one ever knew for fifteen years she was married and they said it was supposed to have occurred when Beckett was in her rebel stage, before her mother's murder and they felt that the Department of Justice wouldn't have asked about it.
 
I can't believe they genuinely thought that would fly, this ignores the fact she was about to join the NYPD and be subject to more checks by other organisations, it would have come up at that point. From everything I've gleaned when you apply for a job like that they go through everything from birth to date and not only on you but on your family and even friends in some instances, there is no way that would not come out into the open. 
 
The Rogan business was when I knew MilMar had lost the plot completely and no longer cared what they did to the characters any more in pursuit of cheap drama and if they stayed we would get more of this sort of thing.
 
When they do reflect on the show I'd like to think they're embarrassed by 6.23 and consider it a low point creatively even if they'd never admit it publicly.

Edited May 16, 2015 by verdana

[femmefan1946]

When I was hired by the RCMP (civilian staff) clearance included investigation of my inlaws and their businesses and their teen and adult children. Plus all my previous jobs and employers.

For an actual officer to have had less investigation than that---

But if you want to try to explain the entire idiotic kidnapping, why not throw that in? It doesn't make less sense than the 'last messages' that were unfindable because the key to the bank box was in Castle's pocket.

 

As for the weird interrogation and offer of a political career, I've been through that too (well, DH has been a candidate for office and has also been a recruiter of candidates) and the first steps are polite coffee or lunch meetings to see if the potential candidate is even interested. To start by trying to scare off a potential star would be at the very least counter-productive. Which was the only part of that which rang true.

[roamyn]

As a new watcher of Castle, I have a question:

Why does he have custody of Alexis, and her actress mother is barely ever mentioned?

[KaveDweller]

He has custody because Meredith (the mother) is kind of a flake and only wants to be around for the fun parts of motherhood. She ran off with her movie's director at some point when Alexis was little. Alexis prefers living with her dad, so it made sense all around.  There's no bad blood or anything though.

 

She is barely mentioned because the show doesn't really talk about things that aren't directly relevant to that week's plot (and I say that with love).

[roamyn]

Thanx, KaveDweller.

You'd think there'd be some mention of Alexis visiting w/her, or "I'm on the phone w/Mom" type mention, during an episode here or there - just to add authenticity to 'real life'.

[KaveDweller]

I love this show, but you will find they are not always great at that adding authenticity part. Especially in the later seasons.

 

There was an episode in season 5 where something major happens to Alexis and the mother is never mentioned. I don't want to give it away if you haven't gotten that far, but it was definitely something a mother should be called in for.  The actress who played her (in two episodes only) is on Scandal now so wasn't available, but they didn't even have a line about her.  When asked later the writers said they forgot about her.

[MaryM47]

Watched Always today and 2 things came to mind: first of all, ladies, if you're fighting on a roof with a bad guy, kick him in the balls for heaven's sake! And second, does anyone know of any fanfic out there when it is Castle who goes to Beckett after the roof fight?

[verdana]

As for Meredith, I know she's an absent minded mother but come on writers, they completely dropped the ball a number of times and it's been glaring.

 

MaryM49. Yeah I'm with you on the kick em in the balls suggestion but make sure you get it right first time!

 

I'm sure I might have read the odd one but can't recall them right now but if you want a place to search this site is great, she's answered almost every query going from fans and sorted things into lists. You can always message her if you want she seems very helpful. 

 

Fic Request Recommendation List

 

Oh, I found a very short tumblr prompt one on this list here at the bottom. 

Edited July 17, 2015 by verdana

[MaryM47]

Thanks so much, verdana!

[amensisterfriend]

Season 3

3XK

Nikki Heat

Knockdown

The Final Nail

 

S3 is actually the season that probably improved for me with time...maybe because I now know which parts to fast forward ;) I actually really like Castle (the character) quite a lot this season---he's a little less slick and cocky than he was in S1-S2 yet still charming and vibrant and sharp compared to the Castle we often get in later seasons. And while I'm not a Beckett fan in general, she has her moments this season as well. More to the point for a huge fan of comedic mysteries like I am, this season just happens to have a lot of my favorite and most rewatchable individual episodes, including the ones verdana mentioned above :)

 

If you guys had to pick just, say, 10-15 favorite episodes of the series so far, which would they be?!   

Edited August 11, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[roamyn]

My top 10 episodes, do far (having seen little of S1-2, S6-7):

Under Fire

Hunt/Target

3XK

Wild Rover

Good, Bad, Baby

That 70s Show

Cloudy W/A Chance of Murder

Blue Butterfly

Hollander's Woods

Vampire Weekend

Subject to change (except the top 3), as I watch seasons new to me.

[amensisterfriend]

As I'm trying to compose my list, I'm really surprised to realize that most of my favorites comes from S3 and S4 with a sprinkling of S5...S1 and S2 may have been more consistently entertaining in some ways, but while the lows weren't as low, I think for me the highs weren't as high :)  

 

Blue Butterfly

 

I'm always so happy to find others who share my fondness for this episode! I totally get why it didn't work for some, but I love the look and feel of that episode so much. (It helps that I grew up watching tons of 'old' noir movies!) 

[McManda]

A top 10-15 list would take some thought for me ... I might tackle the challenge. But my gut feeling is that I'm going to tend towards the earlier seasons, but I'm not sure if that's because I've seen those episodes more (so they're more memorable) of if they were just better. For the later seasons I have to think about where Castle and Beckett were in their relationship to even remember what cases there were. Like, I can pick out individual episodes in S1-S4, but in S5 I have to think "oh yeah, hidden dating ... let's see ... the Hamptons, Castle framed for murder ..." things like that.

 

A rough list (not in any order other than chronological) based on what I tend to pick when I watch a random episode: 

- Home is where the Heart Stops

- Tick/Boom (they count as one, right? I think it's my favorite 2-parter)

- Overkill

- A Deadly Game

- Poof! You're Dead

- Cops and Robbers

- The Lives of Others

- The Way of the Ninja

- Veritas (but it should have been a 2-parter)

- Once Upon a Time in the West

- Hollander's Woods (seems incomplete as far as an episode for Castle's backstory, but would have served well for a series finale)

 

... okay, so I tried to spread out my favorites a bit.  I don't know how comprehensive it is, considering a lot of them are the big milestone episodes. And there are tons that I like moments from (like "Knockdown" or "Always" for the Castle/Beckett relationship movement, but I'm eh on the Johanna Beckett case) so I don't know if they'd qualify as favorites.

 

This is actually a hard question. Or I'm putting too much thought into it. ;)

[amensisterfriend]

- Poof! You're Dead

 

I already know that this one makes my top 15 as well! It's not a particularly momentous episode, but somehow it just encapsulates everything I like about the show and does it with such rewatchable ease. 

 

Cops and Robbers

 

Maybe one of the series' very best...in my opinion, of course :) 

[verdana]

Cops and Robbers remains my ultimate favourite I have to wipe away the rest of it since S4 I didn't enjoy overall and I love Poof You're Dead for the exact same reasons amensisterfriend.

 

Season 3 is definitely one of my favourite seasons and it's a total turnaround because it was during a period when I stopped watching the show completely I was so fed up with WTWT and thought the S.O. were so obviously there as a stalling mechanism but I came back and now in any top ten list I've realised how many stand outs appear from that season.  

 

I actually really like Castle (the character) quite a lot this season---he's a little less slick and cocky than he was in S1-S2 yet still charming and vibrant and sharp compared to the Castle we often get in later seasons. And while I'm not a Beckett fan in general, she has her moments this season as well.

 

Yeah this, he had reached a good balance there before they turned him into a bumbling goof for cheap laughs and I loved some of Katic's moments in this season again they had her still relatable and it was before all the dreaded "walls" business came along. Probably a highlight for me was Nikki Heat I thought she was great showing her talent for comedy which sometimes gets ignored as that's meant to be Fillion's bag but if the writing is good the actors will shine better. 

Edited August 12, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

If you guys had to pick just, say, 10-15 favorite episodes of the series so far, which would they be?!

 

 

This list hardly ever changes because I simply haven't found the episodes in the latter seasons nearly as good with the very odd exception. 

 

1.01 Flowers for your Grave

1.07 Home is Where the Heart Stops

2.05 When the Bough Breaks

2.13 S**ker Punch

2.17 Tick Tick Tick/2.18 Boom 

3.06 3XK

3.11 Nikki Heat

3.12 Poof You're Dead

3.13 KnockDown

3.15 The Final Nail

3.22 To Live and Die in LA

3.24 Knockout

4.07 Cops & Robbers

5.04 Murder He Wrote

5.22 Still

 

I managed to whittle it down and cast off No 1 Fan and A Chill Goes Through Her Veins but oh it hurt with the latter!  

 

What I've realised is that the episodes I keep going back to watch time and time again are all mainly concentrated in S1-S3 and that it's much easier after S4 as the quality of the writing dips from that point. 

 

And for all my moaning about the mombatross, it's given me (and Beckett) some of the most enjoyable and emotionally gripping moments out the entire show, the earlier episodes that is. 

Edited August 12, 2015 by verdana

[turnitwayup]

My list with some of my favorite parts of the ep in ( ).

 

A Chill Goes Through Her Veins (Beckett's story, laser tag, Beckett's visit to Castle's loft, married convo in front of the tenant)

Home is Where the Heart Stops (the jewel thief, auction, Castle pretending to be Det. Castle in the car, Lanie at Beckett's apt)
When the Bough Breaks (another heartbreaking case, Nikki Heat party, Paula)

Vampire Weekend (former roles shoutouts, Ryan's vampire chick ex-gf, Castle being a good dad, Beckett's taking care of Alexis's egg, Halloween party)
Sucker Punch (Castle putting up 100k, Beckett finding out about the similar knife wounds, Castle held hostage and Beckett shooting Rathbourne) 

The Third Man (metrosexual Castle excited about the apartment, The Ledger subplot and restaurant scenes, going to Remy's at the end with Beckett's hair twirling)
Tick, Tick, Tick... Boom! (Jordan Shaw, Avery's cliff notes of Heat Wave, Castle excitement over the smartboard, staying over at each other's places with hilarious morning afters, Castle kicking down the door to save Beckett, Castle getting the watch repaired, Castle being Beckett's only backup to save Shaw)
3XK (mini Generation Kill reunion, Castle and Tyson's convo in the motel room, Castle and Beckett's convo at the pool, Mongomery convo with one of the victim's dad)
Knockdown (Beckett bring Castle to meet Raglan, Johanna's murder board on the shutters scene, sidekick/partner convo, hottest undercover kiss to save Ryan/Espo, always at the end)
To Live and Die in LA (night time hotel convo, Castle getting to drive for once, breaking into a house and getting caught by LAPD, getting chewed out over the phone by Mongomery, meeting the Roach actors and using the set for interrogation, Royce's letter)
Knockout (Jim meeting Castle for the 1st time, the fight at Beckett's apartment, Ryan/Espo finding out the 3rd cop is Mongomery, the hanger and funeral scenes)
Cops & Robbers (Beckett/Ryan/Espo dropping everything to rush over to the bank, Ryan getting his Castle theories on, Beckett as hostage negotiator and her amusing interaction with Cap Davis, cleverness of Castle communicating with Beckett, hostage takers' dr names, the vault rescue scene, fun banter of who save who at dinner)

Once Upon a Crime (Martha getting featured in an ep, Martha inviting Beckett over and telling Castle to make it a date, Beckett's telling Castle she'll protect him cause she has a gun, the ending scene with the hand holding)
Murder He Wrote (Brady thinking Beckett is a hooker, Ryan/Espo trying to find out who's Beckett's bf is, Ryan's reaction after finding out, the flirty banter throughout, the Hamptons house)

Number One Fan (Gates calling for Castle, sympathetic Emma, Castle using what he's learned over the years to help Emma, the use of Castle's books, Beckett being worried about Castle inside, Beckett getting her job back scene)

 

It was hard to figure out what to leave out. Flowers for Your Grave started it all, but Still, Smells Like Teen Spirit, Veritas, Clear and Present Danger, Once Upon a Time in the West were good Caskett interaction eps. Definitely enjoyed s7 more overall cause they were more of a supporting team over the endless shallow wedding planning and the missed opportunities of Beckett getting closer to Alexis and Martha.

[amensisterfriend]

I love everyone's lists---and Murder he Wrote is an all time favorite of mine as well. 

 

What I've realised is that the episodes I keep going back to watch time and time again are all mainly concentrated in S1-S3 and that it's much easier after S4 as the quality of the writing dips from that point.

 

So now of course I need to know how you guys would rank all seven seasons from your favorite to least favorite...no ties allowed ;) Warning: I love S5 a lot more than most do :) 

[verdana]

So now of course I need to know how you guys would rank all seven seasons from your favorite to least favorite

 

I'd probably go 3, 2, 1, 4, 6, 5, 7.

 

Season 3 is my favourite, I could happily watch every episode. It was probably the most consistently written and it's an incredibly important "bridge" between what Castle and Beckett started out as (reluctant co-workers) and what they were to become. What I love about S3 is that they both finally made the choice to be in each other's lives not because of any force of circumstance, they couldn't hook up romantically but it was lovely watching their friendship grow and the bonds strengthen because that's such an important aspect to being in a serious relationship that you're good friends.  That was the season I thought Castle moved away from seeing her as some conquest to genuinely falling in love. The scene in Poof You're Dead when they both figure out how Zalman did it during one of their classic theorising moments, that was when Castle realised this was what he wanted for the rest of his days - to be with her as partner, lover and friend.

 

S2 was also good but it had the Demming arc which left a bad taste because of the silly miscommunications bullshit that was to become a predictable staple in the future.  Although my feelings have mellowed somewhat and I'm one of the minority who didn't hate Castle's guts for walking out of the precinct and leaving her to cry - my only regret was he had to pick Gina of all people.

 

S1 had some fantastic episodes, the cases back then genuinely kept me hooked, you were always finding out something fresh and new about everyone as characters. However, the show was still finding it's way and of course it was shortened season. Castle started off as bit of a jerk TBH, thank God for his family otherwise I might have turned off and Beckett needed to soften up a little. Stana as an actress had to find her feet too, occasionally the difference in acting experience between Fillion and Katic was noticeable.

 

S4 is a difficult one to appraise, first half of the season was reasonably okay up to Cops & Robbers and then it all went wrong. May be it's the passage of time lol but I can't recall feeling nearly as frustrated watching that season as I did some of the later ones, even with the douchebag arc in there. I think it's because the writers managed to retain the essence of the show I first fell in love with although it was steadily evaporating.

 

I have more difficulty when it comes to the seasons I find are the least satisfying in knowing where to place them, I often swap 5 and 6 around depending upon my mood. I loathed the endless boring trite wedding planning in S6 and the finale was a pile of shit that MilMar should be forever ashamed of producing (the network should never have allowed it see the light of day) but there were some episodes I really enjoyed in there too. But then I look at S5 and it started off well and showed real promise then it became a total clusterfuck from about mid season onwards.  It was an incredibly uneven season with episodes I hugely enjoyed (After the Storm, MHW and Still) but then you had the risible Squab and finally Watershit with yet more misunderstandings and a wretched marriage proposal that looked anything but joyous. Yet another milestone moment fucked up by Marlowe.  

 

S7 I've stuck at the bottom which is probably unfair but it's the most recent and the one I'm most recently disappointed about. I found it overwhelmingly meh and I was bored for large chunks of it and that's a capital offence by the writers. May be Nathan is right - better to experience some emotion even dislike than none at all lol.  Sleeper was terrible, the mythology was half baked and never addressed properly, Castle's character was never explored in any meaningful way as was initially promised and Nathan played him too goofy at times for my taste. The Castle PI arc was a sign of things to come as the writers found various contrived ways over the course of the season to stop the leads being in each other's orbit too much which is probably why I was prejudiced about it from the start plus Beckett had no solid storyline of her own. They briefly flirted with the captaincy angle at the very end but it felt like the writers were treading water most of the season not having a clue what to do and then there was the fall out from the non wedding which cast a pall over the first half of the season.

 

Doing this analysis I've realised how feelings can change over time without you even noticing until you're asked to seriously think about it. Something else I've noticed is that I find Castle is a show of two distinct halves, the first half is often pretty good and things seem to be motoring along okay and then just before Christmas they hit the buffers and things unravel, I do wonder if this show would have benefited hugely from the English style of doing much shorter seasons (13 episodes max).

Edited August 12, 2015 by verdana

[amensisterfriend]

I love your analysis, verdana! My season rankings are a little different (I like S5 a lot more than you do and for some reason love S1 a little less), but I still agree with the majority of your points :) Especially...:

 

 

 

Season 3 is my favourite, I could happily watch every episode. It was probably the most consistently written and it's an incredibly important "bridge" between what Castle and Beckett started out as (reluctant co-workers) and what they were to become. What I love about S3 is that they both finally made the choice to be in each other's lives not because of any force of circumstance, they couldn't hook up romantically but it was lovely watching their friendship grow and the bonds strengthen because that's such an important aspect to being in a serious relationship that you're good friends.  That was the season I thought Castle moved away from seeing her as some conquest to genuinely falling in love. I always think the scene in Poof You're Dead when they both figure out how Zalman did it, Castle realised this was what he wanted for the rest of his days - to be with her as partner, lover and friend.

 

YES! Castle's character and his bond with Beckett felt deeper and more mature than it did in S1-S2 (I'm in the minority who actually finds him a tad TOO smarmy and cocky the first two seasons and their relationship couldn't deepen until he did), but there was still that charm, sparkle and energy to him and the overall show that would start to wane in subsequent seasons. Beckett's got great moments here as well, this the last season during which I love Alexis and the Castle/Alexis dynamic, there are a handful of awesomely engaging mysteries and some of my favorite standalone episodes of the whole series, it's our last season with Montgomery, and Knockdown/Knockout are easily among my favorite 'mombatross' (hee!) episodes of the series. Also, on an embarrassingly shallow note, S3 is the last season during which I think NF looks his best, and I love Beckett's darker hair so much more than when it's highlighted...I know, I know. Very astute analysis there ;) 

My one criticism is the annoying stuff re cannon fodder significant others, but thankfully they take up a lot less screentime than I had remembered. 

 

 

I think I've finally narrowed down my top 15...which are definitely not the 'best' or highest quality, but just the ones I happen to love most and feel most tempted to rewatch. And this list will no doubt change by the time you guys read this :) In chronological order:

 

1. The Third Man 

2. Close Encounters of the Murderous Kind

3. Last Call (the Piano Man serenade makes me ridiculously happy!)

4. Nikki Heat

5. Poof You're Dead 

6. One Life to Lose

7. Knockout 

8. Cops and Robbers 

9. The Blue Butterfly 

10. Once Upon A Crime 

11. Murder he Wrote 

12. The Final Frontier 

13. The Lives of Others 

14. Still 

15. Once Upon a Time in the West 

 

...I like S1 and S2 more than this list reflects, but while they have lower lows the highs just aren't QUITE as high for me for some reason. 

 

And I have an irrational bias against S6 due to the maddening wedding planning drivel, especially since the Beckett of my personal head canon couldn't care less about that stuff :)   

Edited August 12, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[oberon55]

For me season 1 & 2 & some of s3 are my favorites because:

 

1) Beckett & Castle behaved in ways that seemed in character to me. In the later seasons characterization always took a back seat to plot. I had no rulebook to follow where I could say Castle wouldn't do that because the very next episode he would do it & then the whole cast would promptly forget it ever happened.

 

2)It seemed like the secondary characters had a bigger role in the storyline. If not bigger at least more relevant. As the seasons have gone by they have become almost caricatures of the original roles. Honestly they could replace half of them with new characters & it wouldn't bother me much.

 

3)The cases. You know the things that take up the majority of the screen time. I used to feel something for the victim (sometimes even for the killer). Nowadays I'm just sitting there half asleep while they go through the motions of untangling this weeks overly complicated twists & turns.

 

4)It was funnier to me back then. Castle's slapstick bumbling just is not funny to me.

 

Every season has good & bad episodes & some of my favorites come from the later seasons. But when I look at the seasons as a whole I think the first 2 had more poignant cases, better characterization and told a more cohesive story.

[Gant]

Seasons:

 

2 - Perfect. Most of my favorite episodes come from this one, and I was still shipping Castle and Beckett then.

1 - Witty and fresh (as much as something so similar to "Moonlighting" can be called "fresh" )

3 - Still good, but Beckett starts finding pedestals to climb on and fashion sense to throw money at. First half of the season is better and closer to the previous seasons, second half has signs of (bleaker) things to come. Main characters start getting flattened out and "tropyfied" (I mean TV tropes, is that clear? ;), and I'm beginning to lose my empathy to their love story.

4 - The season I started watching the show, starting with the episode about ghost hunting. After marathoning previous seasons I thought this one is too gloomy and tired, and I also stopped shipping Caskett here. I thought there was nowhere to go but improve things, after that season. But in retrospect, it has a surprising number of episodes I love. And of course, compared to what would come... It's pretty decent overall.

5 - Murder, He Wrote, Final Frontier, The Lives of Others. Bits and pieces of Target/Hunt, Secret Santa, maybe Wild Rover and couple of others.

7 - IMO without direction, a complete travesty of "mythology" (Sleeper is the worst of the worst for me, even coming ahead of Belly of the Beast and For Better or Worse), but still better and fresher than season 6. Not much of a compliment, but... season 6!

6 - Just dreary. I stopped watching for several months and then marathoned the missed ones. Hasn't improved. Number One Fan, of course, is a peak. Smells Like Teen Spirit, Deep Cover and Valkyrie are quite watchable. Bits of Time Will Tell and Disciple.

[amensisterfriend]

I'm so pathetically suggestible --- I keep thinking I know my season rankings, and then reading other people's thoughts has me all "hmmm, great point, maybe I like this one more/less than I thought..." Clearly I need to do another rewatch! For now, though:

 

1. S3 (I've already rambled about why!) 

2. S2 (You guys have reminded me of reasons why I love this one more than I thought I did!) 

3. S5

4. S4 (Some very low lows, but also some very high highs!) 

5. S1 (It's such a short season that it's hard to compare it to the others, and S4-S4 definitely have lower lows, but for some reason the show just doesn't fully work for me yet here, and they overdid the smarmy, slick, arrogant aspects of Castle's personality for my personal---admittedly weird---taste :) 

6. S7

7. S6  

Edited August 12, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Guest]

I would rank them like so (I think. For today. Nothing is set in stone):

 

1) Season 1.  I love, love, love Season 1.  I fell in love with this show, and I can rewatch Season 1 episodes and still be entertained.  

2) Season 2.  It was still a fun, humorous show with mysteries that made sense even when they stretched at the bounds of credulity.

3) Season 3. I enjoyed this season, but this is where it felt like it was starting to really lose focus-  episodes like Setup/Countdown were just trying to do bigger and better events constantly, in my opinion.  The season finale was wonderful though, but I would have liked that whole storyline to wrap up there instead of them keeping on dragging it out whenever they got bored.

4) Season 6. I hated the season finale. BUT they finally wrapped up Bracken so we could move forward. I also really liked several episodes such as Limelight, Like Father, Like Daughter, and Time Will Tell.  I didn't like Pi and I didn't like Alexis that season though.

5) Season 4.  No, no, no.  There was (again, in my opinion) an extremely noticeable drop in quality from Season 3 to Season 4.  I hated most of the cases. I didn't like the personal interactions between characters.  

6) Season 5 From Bigfoot to Bracken, I hated this season.

7) Season 7.  It was months before I even watched this one. The storylines had just fallen so far and I enjoyed so few episodes. The writing of the mysteries was far worse - a lot of inconsistencies and things where nothing added up.

[verdana]

Also, on an embarrassingly shallow note, S3 is the last season during which I think NF looks his best,

 

Don't be embarrassed.

 

Oh for the days when Castle was hot as hell, this gif might not be from S3 but oh boy I could watch this all day lol.

 

Yeah since then sadly Fillion has let himself go somewhat and that saddens and frustrates me but I'm not going to dwell further on that sensitive topic.

 

The cases. You know the things that take up the majority of the screen time.

 

 

This made me laugh because it's so painfully true, they do and yet I honestly hardly pay attention to them now, they really need to up their game here. They seem to think that layering further complications on to the story creates a decent, interesting case but it doesn't work with me. I'd love to care again about a murder victim!