paigow July 24, 2017 Share July 24, 2017 Diane decided not to shout a warning...she knows Gordon & Albert can also see "Los Hobos". Tammy needs to shoot her. T-Bag is a good guy again...... Link to comment
PatternRec July 24, 2017 Share July 24, 2017 I wanted to take the time to look at poor Bobby Briggs' mini story arc this episode. First he's dealing with his daughter, married to someone dangerous, with only so much he can do. Then he then has to watch his ex-wife also make plans with her sketchy, drug-dealing boyfriend, again with little he can do but watch. Finally he deals with the gun shot situation and is confronted by the chaos and horror. The look on Bobby's face as he sees all this go down show confusion and compassion. This is one of Lynch's many recurring TP themes - that good people may be confused by the horror they see in the world but they are not repelled or scared of it. 6 Link to comment
Penman61 July 24, 2017 Share July 24, 2017 13 minutes ago, PatternRec said: This is one of Lynch's many recurring TP themes - that good people may be confused by the horror they see in the world but they are not repelled or scared of it. Yes. I would add a related theme: that good people see the horror approaching and can do nothing to stop it. I happen to watch recently a montage of the entire TV series that included Maddie's murder. The shots of Cooper at the Roadhouse (and Margaret, who sees the Giant, too) are just so, so tragic. "I'm so sorry" says our favorite nonagenarian bellhop to Cooper, and we all are. Cooper, for all his goodness and skill and trust in intuition and The Unseen, could do nothing to stop Maddie's killing. Powerless against the horror. The Return, amazing as it's been so far, has yet to plumb that sequence's pure emotional depth. But we have 7 episodes left. And I'm personally very, very concerned for Shelly. 6 Link to comment
Pete Martell July 25, 2017 Author Share July 25, 2017 3 hours ago, meep.meep said: Having different characters show that they are feeling frustrating rage by screaming out loud is really getting old - twice in one episode is ridiculous. That's one of the things I associate with the old Twin Peaks (characters like Bobby used to do this all the time). I sort of took it, along with bits like the warmer side of the town being weaved back in, that the old vibe is returning, just in a more toxic form. 2 Link to comment
Cheezwiz July 25, 2017 Share July 25, 2017 2 hours ago, PatternRec said: I wanted to take the time to look at poor Bobby Briggs' mini story arc this episode. First he's dealing with his daughter, married to someone dangerous, with only so much he can do. Then he then has to watch his ex-wife also make plans with her sketchy, drug-dealing boyfriend, again with little he can do but watch. Finally he deals with the gun shot situation and is confronted by the chaos and horror. Alternate Episode 11 Title: "Bobby Briggs' Terrible Horrible No Good Very Bad Day". 5 Link to comment
PatternRec July 25, 2017 Share July 25, 2017 47 minutes ago, Cheezwiz said: Alternate Episode 11 Title: "Bobby Briggs' Terrible Horrible No Good Very Bad Day". LUL 2 hours ago, Penman61 said: Yes. I would add a related theme: that good people see the horror approaching and can do nothing to stop it. YES! The look on Bobby's face is one that encompasses compassion with helplessness - an understanding some people have to suffer and you can only do so much to help. 2 Link to comment
Pete Martell July 25, 2017 Author Share July 25, 2017 We got more of Gordon blatantly mirroring Dale in this past episode. http://specialagentaudrey.tumblr.com/post/163381375509/gordon-cole-and-dale-cooper-parallels 3 Link to comment
dwmckim July 25, 2017 Share July 25, 2017 On 7/23/2017 at 10:07 PM, jsbt said: Also: The wallpaper on the staircase with the Woodsmen may match this - Laura's painting from FWWM. I apologize to poor Lauren Tewes for insinuating she was the gorgon in the car; she was the woman in Gersten's apartment building. Thanks for clearing that up - i would have gone on thinking, "Wow, she's REALLY let herself go!!!" 19 hours ago, larapu2000 said: I thought it did for a second as well. There was a different tenor to his voice, like Cooper's real voice, versus when Dougie repeats things like "case files" and it's in that dreamy voice, versus the stronger, clearer voice of Cooper. I also thought that when the music was playing, Audrey would walk into the restaurant and THAT would wake Cooper up? Just imagine if that actually DID end up being the case. In context, it would be epic to the viewers and leave Sherilyn Fenn disappointed in the amount of screentime she got. 1 Link to comment
dwmckim July 25, 2017 Share July 25, 2017 10 hours ago, Affogato said: Strange how the cherry pie is without ice cream.... Cooper never really did eat his cherry pie a la mode though that we've seen, did he? Link to comment
paigow July 25, 2017 Share July 25, 2017 The one-armed man delivered the pie via a convenient lobby portal?? Why not some more helpful clues??? Like "Find Hawk"??? 2 Link to comment
Cindylou July 25, 2017 Share July 25, 2017 I found this episode beautiful (except you know the dirty hobo who killed the guy in the car). DougieCoop seems so innocent and pure, I kinda don't want that to go away! I mean I want Cooper back, but I love how Dougie seems to be making people happier and more hopeful. Shelly always goes for the bad boys :( Poor Bobby, but I do agree, I hated him in the original but LOVE him now. 3 Link to comment
Guest July 25, 2017 Share July 25, 2017 The only character I actively hated in the first/second season was James who I still actively hate to this day -- regardless of Shelley proclaiming that was. "always cool." No dear, he was not, he is not, and never will be "cool." He's an annoying, charmless weirdo. Link to comment
Pete Martell July 25, 2017 Author Share July 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Giant Misfit said: The only character I actively hated in the first/second season was James who I still actively hate to this day -- regardless of Shelley proclaiming that was. "always cool." No dear, he was not, he is not, and never will be "cool." He's an annoying, charmless weirdo. I never had much of a reaction to James. I did grow to dislike Donna, mostly thanks to how they vamped her up in season 2 and because she was a big part of the whole, "Laura was such a drag and now I have to get over it!" mindset that began to annoy me a great deal. You could say it's true to life, but most of the people who got that narrative were characters I already wanted to dropkick (Ben Horne was another one) so that didn't help matters. With that said, I watched the show in a few months (as close to binge-watching as I will get) so I might have had a different reaction if I'd watched in real time. 1 Link to comment
Affogato July 25, 2017 Share July 25, 2017 13 hours ago, dwmckim said: Cooper never really did eat his cherry pie a la mode though that we've seen, did he? But at some point you'd think the Ben and Jerry connection would come through? 3 Link to comment
Guest July 25, 2017 Share July 25, 2017 21 hours ago, Penman61 said: The Return, amazing as it's been so far, has yet to plumb that sequence's pure emotional depth. But we have 7 episodes left. And I'm personally very, very concerned for Shelly. I'm concerned for everyone. I don't think, The Straight Story notwithstanding, I've ever seen a David Lynch film that ended on an upbeat note. And I don't see how Agent Cooper, should he ever return, will just pick up his Earth-bound life where it left off 25 years earlier. He's been here all along, albeit in Mr C form, but even if he were to stay, he'd be in prison for the crimes his doppleganger committed. One and the same. So, does anyone have an insight on the insurance conspiracy? I thought when Dougie said, "he's lying," to Sinclair when he said the Mitchell Bros fire wasn't arson, that the fire really was arson. Now that it's been established that it wasn't arson, what was the point of "he's lying?" I rewatched the episode last night and two things freaked me out even more than the first time I watched: 1.) the horn-honking woman in the car screaming about being late for dinner with her uncle; and 2.) Lauren Tewes! Bloody hell what happened to her?! Link to comment
Cheezwiz July 25, 2017 Share July 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Giant Misfit said: I rewatched the episode last night and two things freaked me out even more than the first time I watched: 1.) the horn-honking woman in the car screaming about being late for dinner with her uncle; and 2.) Lauren Tewes! Bloody hell what happened to her?! I haven't re-watched it yet, but I think I'll have to skip over that scene. Something about that woman's non-stop screaming combined with the vomiting zombie kid really freaked me out as well. For some reason staring at Matthew Lillard's half-exploded head didn't bother me nearly as much as vomit-girl. GAWD! And like you, @Giant Misfit, I'm really worried for everyone. This is looking like an upcoming convergence of events where any character could be taken out. 3 Link to comment
Nashville July 26, 2017 Share July 26, 2017 On 7/23/2017 at 11:48 PM, Giant Misfit said: When Dougie looked up from the dinner table as the piano player started playing, I swore it was a full-blown reappearance of Agent Cooper. Just the look on his face seemed completely transformed from Dougie into Dale. I was wrong, I guess, but that music meant something to him in some way. When the old woman came over to him, that whole exchange moved me to tears. I have no idea why. That entire tableau during the "Thank you Mr. Jackpots" portion - somewhat mournful music playing, DougieCoop's head turned profile with chin slightly raised, the old lady leaning over to kiss him on the cheek - did that remind anybody else of Agent Cooper's last kiss from Laura Palmer in the Black Lodge? On 7/23/2017 at 11:48 PM, Giant Misfit said: Hooray for living Miriam! And for the end credits that identified Shelly as "Shelly Briggs." Three cheers for Gordon and Albert trolling Diane with the pic of the coordinates. I'm sure that was a complete set up. Yep - and I'm just as sure the "last few numbers being blurred" was in no way an accident. I expect Albert or Gordon had the photo altered to obscure the numbers - and if Diane got enough of the coordinates to make an educated guess of where they indicate and goes there, I fully expect Gordon and Albert to be there to greet her upon arrival. On 7/23/2017 at 11:52 PM, jsbt said: My suspicion is it may have to do again with the drugs Red is pushing, if indeed he is linked to the supernatural - I would not be shocked if his operation in Twin Peaks circles back to the doppelganger's criminal empire in Vegas and New York, that Evil Cooper and Jeffries are running it all. The drugs may be turning all sorts of people totally apeshit. Or it could be nothing so specific. Could just be a classic Lynch tableau showing tragedy, horror and sickness pervading the town - just another sick child showing how polluted the town has become again under the surface. Who knows. Either way I think it goes back to the same narrative point, which is that all is not well in Twin Peaks. Or both. :) Remember Sheriff (Harry S) Truman's words to Agent Cooper immediately before introducing Coop to the Bookhouse Boys: "There has always been a darkness in this town." I saw ZombieChild as a literal symbol of this darkness (probable drug OD?), but also as a figurative symbol of the darkness which permeates Twin Peaks - a noisome, puking, clawing image of repulsiveness which moved unnoticed through the streets of Twin Peaks, and would have continued to do so if it weren't for Little Johnny Redneck Jr. deciding to shoot up the Double R. Speaking of ZombieChild - I wonder who Uncle was, why they hadn't seen him in such a very long time, and why the simple prospect of being late for/missing said meeting with him was enough to push Big Momma to the point of hysterics.... On 7/25/2017 at 8:33 AM, paigow said: The one-armed man delivered the pie via a convenient lobby portal?? Why not some more helpful clues??? Like "Find Hawk"??? Mike led Doug/Coop to the one available local place to buy the One Certain Thing which would allow D/C to survive his meeting with the Mitchums - how much more helpful do you expect him to be? Plus, it sounded like the pie was very good. ;) 5 Link to comment
Affogato July 27, 2017 Share July 27, 2017 On 7/25/2017 at 5:18 PM, Giant Misfit said: I'm concerned for everyone. I don't think, The Straight Story notwithstanding, I've ever seen a David Lynch film that ended on an upbeat note. And I don't see how Agent Cooper, should he ever return, will just pick up his Earth-bound life where it left off 25 years earlier. He's been here all along, albeit in Mr C form, but even if he were to stay, he'd be in prison for the crimes his doppleganger committed. One and the same. So, does anyone have an insight on the insurance conspiracy? I thought when Dougie said, "he's lying," to Sinclair when he said the Mitchell Bros fire wasn't arson, that the fire really was arson. Now that it's been established that it wasn't arson, what was the point of "he's lying?" I rewatched the episode last night and two things freaked me out even more than the first time I watched: 1.) the horn-honking woman in the car screaming about being late for dinner with her uncle; and 2.) Lauren Tewes! Bloody hell what happened to her?! I have to sit down and watch the whole thing again, maybe saturday with coffee and pie. I think it is possible it was still arson, but maybe not the mitchum brothers (the two stooges) arson? There still is a plot afoot to get rid of Dougie in the most complex, least efficient way possible. I hope the fbi contingent reaches twin peaks this next episode. I think it is possible but they may be held up discussing what ate Matthew Lilliard's head. 1 Link to comment
Pete Martell July 27, 2017 Author Share July 27, 2017 21 hours ago, Nashville said: Speaking of ZombieChild - I wonder who Uncle was, why they hadn't seen him in such a very long time, and why the simple prospect of being late for/missing said meeting with him was enough to push Big Momma to the point of hysterics.... I guess it could be Bob, or the Cooper doppelganger, both away for decades. I saw someone speculate that the screaming woman was supposed to represent viewers (furious about everything being dragged out and desperate to see a man she hasn't seen in a long time - the real Cooper), and that the old lady was also supposed to represent viewers (gushing praise to Dougie about how he'd changed her life and how kind and wonderful he is - the way a lot of viewers feel about Cooper). Link to comment
jsbt July 27, 2017 Share July 27, 2017 (edited) The kid in the car could be nothing too distinctly plot-relevant - just another signifier of the town/world being out of balance or corrupted and unwell, like the hit and run. Lynch loves those kind of atmospheric pieces that speak to the tone and overall narrative thrust without necessarily being plot-driven. Or it could be something specific, related to Red's drugs, BOB, who knows. I do think stuff like the Mitchums agonizing over Candie and the woman in the car (or the rambling woman in Buckhorn at Ruth Davenport's apartment, in the premiere), whatever their other plot relevance, do have some commentary on modern TV audiences. But Lynch also could only have foreseen reaction so much, as this was all shot 1-2 years ago. I think he just likes fucking with expectations and patience; it's funny to him (and me, generally, when he does it). Edited July 27, 2017 by jsbt 4 Link to comment
Affogato July 27, 2017 Share July 27, 2017 6 hours ago, Pete Martell said: I guess it could be Bob, or the Cooper doppelganger, both away for decades. I saw someone speculate that the screaming woman was supposed to represent viewers (furious about everything being dragged out and desperate to see a man she hasn't seen in a long time - the real Cooper), and that the old lady was also supposed to represent viewers (gushing praise to Dougie about how he'd changed her life and how kind and wonderful he is - the way a lot of viewers feel about Cooper). I can see the old lady being the viewers but I'm not sure that viewers are that level of vomiting in the car furious. I'm not. If they are I'll be avoiding cons for a while. 1 Link to comment
kingshearte July 28, 2017 Share July 28, 2017 On 7/24/2017 at 0:48 AM, Giant Misfit said: When Dougie looked up from the dinner table as the piano player started playing, I swore it was a full-blown reappearance of Agent Cooper. Just the look on his face seemed completely transformed from Dougie into Dale. I was wrong, I guess, but that music meant something to him in some way. I also saw it. I suspect/assume we'll get flashes, perhaps with increasing frequency and duration, of real Cooper right up until he finally wakes up fully right at the end. I don't know how I've never noticed how amazing Kyle MacLachlan is with his face before this, but I'm kind of glad I'm watching it if for no other reason than that. I believe the piano man was in fact Angelo Badalamenti, playing something of his own composition (the end credits have him listed as performing a piece; I'm assuming it was that). Someone who's more familiar with Twin Peaks music could perhaps comment, but I wondered if maybe the piece's themes included some sort of variation on Laura's Theme? I'm not entirely on board with the Candie love, although I do hope we eventually find out just what the hell is up with her (spare doppelganger like Dougie, brain injury, alien, what?). Robert Knepper and Jim Belushi, though, are at just the right level of ridiculousness for me to find them 100% entertaining. Especially Knepper (I do have a fondness for the straight man in a comedic duo). The soot guy approaching the car was almost at Bob-coming-over-the-couch level creepy, but I don't think anything will quite match that for sheer terrifyingness. I laughed out loud at Gordon's "He's dead" line, though. I don't usually find his oddness as entertaining as I feel I'm probably supposed to, but something about that delivery was just straight up hilarious to me. And the scene with Bobby, Shelly and Becky in the diner was such a beautifully succinct example of how to deliver exposition without being heavy-handed with it. The whole relationship situation there was laid out with perfect clarity, with almost nothing explicitly stated. Love it. 6 Link to comment
Pete Martell July 28, 2017 Author Share July 28, 2017 56 minutes ago, kingshearte said: I also saw it. I suspect/assume we'll get flashes, perhaps with increasing frequency and duration, of real Cooper right up until he finally wakes up fully right at the end. I don't know how I've never noticed how amazing Kyle MacLachlan is with his face before this, but I'm kind of glad I'm watching it if for no other reason than that. I believe the piano man was in fact Angelo Badalamenti, playing something of his own composition (the end credits have him listed as performing a piece; I'm assuming it was that). Someone who's more familiar with Twin Peaks music could perhaps comment, but I wondered if maybe the piece's themes included some sort of variation on Laura's Theme? Apparently the piano player was Smokey Miles, who is often known as Count Smokula. I agree with you about Kyle's work. I saw another comment today about how Cooper had been ruined and destroyed, etc. and I can respect that, although I don't really agree with it (this is the most I've ever been invested in Cooper), but this whole season has been a masterclass by Kyle and it makes me realize how much I took his performances for granted before. His work in that last scene was just exquisite. And without any editing or effects - just him. 6 Link to comment
jsbt July 28, 2017 Share July 28, 2017 (edited) I don't understand people who claim this isn't Cooper, that we haven't been watching him all this time. No, it's very clearly been him the whole time - some people just aren't comfortable with his journey. Edited July 28, 2017 by jsbt 5 Link to comment
Cheezwiz July 28, 2017 Share July 28, 2017 52 minutes ago, Pete Martell said: I agree with you about Kyle's work. I saw another comment today about how Cooper had been ruined and destroyed, etc. and I can respect that, although I don't really agree with it (this is the most I've ever been invested in Cooper), but this whole season has been a masterclass by Kyle and it makes me realize how much I took his performances for granted before. His work in that last scene was just exquisite. And without any editing or effects - just him. Seconded @Pete Martell, I've been mesmerized by Kyle's performance this time around, and although I'm eager to see chipper Cooper again, I am much more invested in him than I was in the first series. He's been able to convey so much with his face, his voice and physicality. He's always seemed a bit under the radar to me, occasionally popping up briefly here and there on TV shows, but I'm hoping to see him in many more things after this series ends. It would be great to see him land a big role on another cable series. 4 Link to comment
kingshearte July 28, 2017 Share July 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Pete Martell said: Apparently the piano player was Smokey Miles, who is often known as Count Smokula. Well alright then. Too bad. I kinda liked the idea of him actually appearing in the show. 2 Link to comment
Guest July 28, 2017 Share July 28, 2017 11 hours ago, kingshearte said: I don't know how I've never noticed how amazing Kyle MacLachlan is with his face before this, but I'm kind of glad I'm watching it if for no other reason than that. Oh, I agree. He's killing this. I hope by the end of the series, the taint of his performance in Showgirls will finally be erased from my mind. 9 hours ago, jsbt said: I don't understand people who claim this isn't Cooper, that we haven't been watching him all this time. No, it's very clearly been him the whole time - some people just aren't comfortable with his journey. Well, of course it's Cooper -- but we're being forced to recontextualize him for the moment as an avatar named Dougie Jones. I'm uncomfortable, which probably wouldn't be the word I'd use to characterize it, at this point because it's hard viewing Cooper as a catatonic byproduct of his former self. But yes, of course everyone knows Dougie is Coop -- and, at least for me, I'm just thrilled to see signs of life beyond the thousand-yard stare. Link to comment
paigow July 28, 2017 Share July 28, 2017 17 hours ago, Cheezwiz said: It would be great to see him land a big role on another cable series. Showgirls: The Return 9 Link to comment
dwmckim July 28, 2017 Share July 28, 2017 If Kyle doesn't score an Emmy or Golden Globe or other similar accolade for TW:TR, i'll be sadly drowning my sorrows in a cherry pie/doughnut binge. And if he does, i'll be happily celebrating with a cherry pie/doughnut binge. 4 Link to comment
queenanne August 20, 2017 Share August 20, 2017 On 7/27/2017 at 10:20 PM, jsbt said: I don't understand people who claim this isn't Cooper, that we haven't been watching him all this time. No, it's very clearly been him the whole time - some people just aren't comfortable with his journey. I just had to say how enormously I've enjoyed the bleed-through flashes of FBICoop that we get with Dougie - his otherwise inexplicable attachment to badges, case files, solving insurance mysteries, and the like. It's a great touch. (Also, I've now developed Dougie-predictive-language talents, where I can pick out which dialogue snippet he's going to attach to and drone out.) 2 Link to comment
dwmckim August 28, 2017 Share August 28, 2017 Hawk (showing map to Truman:) "If you put these two symbols together" (points to fire symbol and corn symbol) "you get this..." 3 Link to comment
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