Snowfall - General Discussion

[Joimiaroxeu]

The only thing that shocked me was the reveal of Soledad as an undercover agent. Isn't she supposed to have a very accurate and uncommon regional accent? Interesting that she's able to pull that off and stay in character under pressure.

Yeah, about Alton, I don't see anything good coming of that situation. He hasn't just hit rock bottom he's liking living there. Seems to me even if he does pull himself together it'll only be temporary. He'll likely drag Cissy down too unless she tosses him out or he decides he'd rather be back on the streets and leaves on his own.

[Sarah 103]

Ted is so much better this season than last season. I'm interested to see what they do with Alton. Franklin is starting to realize how big this could get and I wonder what he will decide to do, especially in terms of the vast sums of money he is accumulating through selling crack and cocaine. 

[misstwpherecool]

Who is more trouble now after the bad deal/shootout? Outed undercover agent or Pedro for bringing her in? (Was Pedro caught and turned during his disappearance?) Lucia will have to answer up but who with in her 'crew' is in the most poop right now. 

I remember seeing muscle memory in fitness literature for years but in the early 80s?

[Lonesome Rhodes]

This was one of the better eps.

Alton infuriated me.   I have an addict brother and the thing that most drove me crazy was when he would innocently protest that some stunt he pulled was for the good of us, or especially, our mom.  Boy, did the writers get this right.  I was angry when Cissy relented.  It is most certainly realistic, but it sucks.

The stunt choreography and editing with the shootout at Lucia's place was really good.  Very difficult to do.  Lucia is as cool as they come, but c'mon, she had the chance to process Soledad's while she was shot?  Yet, this arc remains the most realistic to me.  Consequences rain down on them unlike for Franklin and his ragtag outfit.  I doubt Pedro is in on the undercover.  He is too stupid to be trusted.  He makes for a perfect mark, though.

I enjoy the Avi character.

Now, wasn't there a huge issue with weight as regards the little plane?  And now they are going to run massive tonnage of guns?  Panama is closer than Colombia, but not by that much.  Teddy would need a veritable fleet to accomplish his needs.

Where are the Crips and Bloods?

[Dowel Jones]

2 hours ago, misstwpherecool said:

I remember seeing muscle memory in fitness literature for years but in the early 80s?

I remember ski instructors using it when I first started skiing around the early 80's, but I don't know if it was popular outside of athletics.

51 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Now, wasn't there a huge issue with weight as regards the little plane? 

The Caravan is actually quite a powerful plane. Very popular in skydiving, and FedEx uses them a lot.  I looked it up and the stated load cap is about 3500 pounds, but I'm sure smugglers don't often worry about that.  Far more important is the center of gravity, and how the load is put in the plane.  If it's been mentioned in the show, I'm sure it will become a plot point somewhere along the way.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Jerk move of Franklin to put Cissy's job at risk like that. Eventually though it'll likely be Alton showing up there and making a drunken scene.

So Teddy also speaks Hebrew? This guy is quite the man for all seasons.

Soledad pretty much blew her own cover. But I guess if she hadn't been such a good shot under pressure and in close quarters she'd be dead.

Quote

I remember seeing muscle memory in fitness literature for years but in the early 80s?

There's at least one anachronism in every episode it seems. What I continue to wonder is if it's deliberate or if the writers figure most of the audience is too young to know any better.

[Sarah 103]

On 8/19/2018 at 2:00 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I doubt Pedro is in on the undercover.  He is too stupid to be trusted.  He makes for a perfect mark, though.

Agreed. Not only is Pedro too stupid to be trusted, he's too stupid to realize something is wrong/off. 

On 8/19/2018 at 10:36 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

There's at least one anachronism in every episode it seems. What I continue to wonder is if it's deliberate or if the writers figure most of the audience is too young to know any better.

I'm curious. What are some anachronisms that you have noticed? I don't think the writers would do it deliberately. My guess is that they didn't do the research. They probably think that most people won't even notice or care.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Two days is long enough for you to get a Columbian necktie, Soledad. And does she know Teddy is CIA? I bet she's going to get told by her bosses to back up off him.

And now we know for sure that Pedro is in on the undercover operation. That's probably not going to end well for him.

So this show has its own "queen of the South" it seems. Queen of Southern California anyway.

Teddy's brother Matt has a very nice body. Maybe more of a 2018s look than 1980s one though, IMO.

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What are some anachronisms that you have noticed?

It's mostly been language and word usage and I do think it's usually a deliberate, tongue-in-cheek thing.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

If DEA knows about Teddy and his plane, there is no way that plane is not seized.  At a minimum, how does either one of them get to it without being apprehended?

I do not understand the structure of the cartel Lucia is attached to.  How does it make any sense for Marcela and those higher up to allow one faction to go after the other absent some obvious shenanigans meriting such a thing?

What was the point of the Nia Jones character?  Unless, of course, she loses her mind and takes up Franklin's offer of a romance.

I enjoyed the scene making that toad father squeal like a beyotch.  It was menacing, but not gratuitous.   What was Alden's excuse for bailing on Nia in the first place?  Once folks like that start avoiding accountability, it goes one way.  Franklin was right.  And now he is drawn back in?  OK, I get it, gangsta with a heart.  Ugh.  

[Sarah 103]

When things blow up in Franklin's face, which they will eventually, even if takes multiple seasons, what is going to happen to his mother's house? I know it's in her name, but he paid off the mortgage. Does that have any possible long term consequences? 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

So, the DEA backed off full surveillance of Reed right when they knew he was their best active link in the cartel?  Huh?  

I'll be darned if I can figure out Pedro's motivation as stated.  If he simply got caught and was facing a boatload of time without co-operation?  OK.  We should have had some exposition on what actually turned him.

How stoopid was DEA honcho to have that agent go solo to arrest both Lucia and Oso.  Again, huh?  There would not have been a full-on massive LE presence to, if nothing else, ensure they preserve all evidence?  I will allow for the chance that she went rogue - but to what end?  She still would have to bring them in.  Nonsense, it was.

I am utterly indifferent to the Mom and her "recovering" derelict husband.   What is their purpose?  Some kind of humanity touch for the wannabe monster Franklin is?  

I do want to see what happens with the user girlfriend who was stealing.  Then again, her BF is already established as a complete idiot.

So, how does Franklin finally become a kingpin?  Or does he not and the series is done after one more season?  So far, he leads the gang that couldn't shoot straight.  

[Sarah 103]

10 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

So, how does Franklin finally become a kingpin?  Or does he not and the series is done after one more season?  So far, he leads the gang that couldn't shoot straight.  

If we get another season my guess is that it will be about Franklin realizing that if he wants to expand and take it national he will need a different group to make that happen.  

[Joimiaroxeu]

Good grief, everybody is selling out everybody.

"Matt, stop doing cocaine."

I have a feeling Soledad is going to go rogue after she's told to stand down because she's interfering in another agency's operation. An operation that's sanctioned at a much higher level than her local drug dealer concerns.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Joimiaroxeu

[Raja]

On 7/23/2018 at 10:38 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

 

Mayates. Never heard that one before. Was that 80s slang (or slur, actually) or is that term still used?

 

It is the Mexican American slur aimed at black people. Literally  a black dung beetle

[Raja]

On 8/19/2018 at 11:00 AM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

 

Where are the Crips and Bloods?

While they were around since the late 60's their overwhelming presence was not felt until after the crack trade was established and they became the local distributors. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

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It is the Mexican American slur aimed at black people. Literally  a black dung beetle

Was it a local LA thing? I'm still surprised I've never heard it before--at least not to my knowledge. ?

[Raja]

5 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Was it a local LA thing? I'm still surprised I've never heard it before--at least not to my knowledge. ?

Perhaps, but then I am local to LA.

[Raja]

On 8/19/2018 at 9:37 AM, misstwpherecool said:

Who is more trouble now after the bad deal/shootout? Outed undercover agent or Pedro for bringing her in? (Was Pedro caught and turned during his disappearance?) Lucia will have to answer up but who with in her 'crew' is in the most poop right now. 

I remember seeing muscle memory in fitness literature for years but in the early 80s?

Beyond muscle memory the scene takes place during the first few years when police were adopting those modern shooting stances. Look at the revolvers issued to Franklin's local dealers to contrast where a tough guy like Oso still got over

[Raja]

I understand that its not her city, she is out of Dallas. But a DEA Agent goes on a mission to stop a possible race war, brings what she thinks we be an informant along and doesn't get the LAPD to flood the area?

I guess since they still have no case against Franklin except the wiretap Felony Murder doesn't kick in and his actions are justified to stop the murder of another.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Raja

[Raja]

On 9/2/2018 at 11:39 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

 

So, how does Franklin finally become a kingpin?  Or does he not and the series is done after one more season?  So far, he leads the gang that couldn't shoot straight.  

It is looking like Franklin and Lucia were just agents of chaos and now that the formula for crack went out we get to the real story of Snowfall that they want to tell will be the end. That the CIA killed a generation in their attempt to help the Contras after congress said no. At least Franklin stopped the race war, well at least outside of the prison system.

[Sarah 103]

8 hours ago, Raja said:

It is looking like Franklin and Lucia were just agents of chaos and now that the formula for crack went out we get to the real story of Snowfall that they want to tell will be the end.

So if we are lucky enough to get a season 3, do you think that's what it's going to be? The absolute bloodshed and devestation that accompanied the crack epidemic? 

I thought Teddy would be furious with his brother so I was surprised how understanding and helpful he was. 

[Raja]

With one episode left I figure the CIA gets Franklin out somehow so that Teddy doesn't have to find a new drug dealer. As for a third season, with all the talk of the Olympics are about to start my time as a historical consultant is coming to an end. .  Halfway through the Games I was on the way to Fort Knox and was luckily away and have no real world knowledge of what happened when my city and its gangsters went crazy.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Naive question but is it easy to die from snorting coke?

I'm amazed Alton stayed sober this long. Franklin getting arrested may be a real test for him though.

Firing guns inside a house. Yikes. Where I live someone was always getting hurt or killed because people were shooting at the sky on NYE so they passed a law against it. Doing that inside a house seems a whole lot more dangerous to me.

Wonder if Lorena will go rogue against Matt and Teddy? She got pretty close taking down their operation. Maybe she'll end up as a whistleblower, that is unless Teddy "disappears" her before she has a chance to blab.

Franklin was an idiot. How would he not think Cissy's house would be staked out? Especially with a cop living practically next door.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Joimiaroxeu

[Sarah 103]

On 9/16/2018 at 1:38 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

unless Teddy "disappears" her before she has a chance to blab.

I think Teddy would much rather have her alive and working for him or at least working with them. He would avoid killing her unless he had absolutely had to. 

On 9/15/2018 at 10:38 PM, Raja said:

With one episode left I figure the CIA gets Franklin out somehow so that Teddy doesn't have to find a new drug dealer.

I could see that happening. I'm not sure how he would pull that off, but I think Teddy could do that. 

[misstwpherecool]

On 9/2/2018 at 2:41 PM, Sarah 103 said:

When things blow up in Franklin's face, which they will eventually, even if takes multiple seasons, what is going to happen to his mother's house? I know it's in her name, but he paid off the mortgage. Does that have any possible long term consequences? 

I think the crack wars of the 80s led to seizures or confiscation laws which ironically many want reversed.

Since this is the story of the rise of crack even though it shows how the recipe could've spread there is still plenty of story to tell include Franklin' entire "career", Lucia could become the cocaine grand mother I think she was called in Miami. Still have Iran Contra. Previews show the DEA lady as a potential CIA player but could be a misdirect and she does something stupid. I was hoping Franklin's colleague wouldn't die and was in witness protection. Matt could wind up with re-occuring addiction issues.-was stunned he didn't od or have a heart attack.

Almost forgot. RIP Gustavo.

Edited September 18, 2018 by misstwpherecool

[Sarah 103]

I was satisified with this as an episode, but it did not feel like a season finale. I liked that the dominant emotions in the prison scenes were fear and boredom. Did anyone else think that Franklin's first phone call was going to be to Teddy, or was that just me? 

[chick binewski]

On 9/18/2018 at 2:07 AM, misstwpherecool said:

I was hoping Franklin's colleague wouldn't die and was in witness protection. Matt could wind up with re-occuring addiction issues.-was stunned he didn't od or have a heart attack.

Almost forgot. RIP Gustavo.

I was convinced Kevin wasn't dead and he'd make a surprise appearance next season. But I think that was his (quickly created Hollywood-style) headstone Franklin was visiting (albeit for the purpose of meeting Teddy)?

Matt has to be messed up after that kidnapping, no? I'm convinced everyone Teddy deals with will die in a horrible way while Teddy walks away unscathed.

On 9/22/2018 at 1:54 PM, Sarah 103 said:

I was satisified with this as an episode, but it did not feel like a season finale. I liked that the dominant emotions in the prison scenes were fear and boredom. Did anyone else think that Franklin's first phone call was going to be to Teddy, or was that just me? 

I agree - it did not feel like a finale to me. I'm also not clear how much Louie was communicating to Teddy was at Franklin's direction.

The prison scenes were painful, but it's hard to feel sorry for Franklin when the guy who is beating him is a former friend he coerced/threatened into commiting murder. 

[Raja]

I agree since most of the episode took place in jail that portion felt like a penultimate episode. It was weird hearing from the DEA that she would go along but no heroin or marijuana, just the rich party drug cocaine. Just don't let LA turn out like Miami. I guess at this point crack was restricted to a crack house in Oakland, where Franklin got the formula and his crew in LA,  But now the Mexican gangs and the girlfriend/cooker who escaped being handcuffed to the pipes have sent the recipe into the wild.

 

Franklin released from jail, and perhaps all charges and talking to auntie, Teddy and us however was serving as a possible series finale. Spelling out in plain language, its our own government and, I work for it. I am not sure what more story they have to tell except the Crips and Bloods trading in their Saturday Night Specials for military grade weapons, turning old homes into crack houses and pulling drive by shootings.

[Sarah 103]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

Franklin released from jail, and perhaps all charges and talking to auntie, Teddy and us however was serving as a possible series finale. Spelling out in plain language, its our own government and, I work for it. I am not sure what more story they have to tell except the Crips and Bloods trading in their Saturday Night Specials for military grade weapons, turning old homes into crack houses and pulling drive by shootings.

It was a possible series finale, but it is getting a third season. (I don't think that counts as a spoiler since there is no information about plot developments, locations, or characters). I'm guessing your last sentence is either we pick up at the start of season 3 or where we end season 3 depending on what kind of time jump there is between seasons. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I finally watched the last three eps.  Waaaaaaaay too much time was devoted to Franklin's prison experience.  He decided to prey on suffering addicts.  He murdered a dude.  Over a drug syndicate.   He was right where he needed to be.

Teddy was a joke.  He was told in no uncertain terms that he was ALOOOOOONE.  His ambition got the best of him and he was now an outcast.  Too bad.  So sad.  he swore an oath to the Constitution.  He was not fighting a declared war.  

So...in all the expired time of these eps, just who was carrying on the day to day?   There was a huge vacuum in basic dealing created. 

Lorena can go away.  She got two better targets than the two she was pursuing and she thinks somehow there was injustice?  She is the one who risked the ENTIRE prosecution of Lucia by threatening the immunity deal!   If Lucia's lawyer caught wind of that?  With the right judge, Lucia would walk scot-free.  Now, she joins an extra-legal operation with little backing - just like Teddy did. 

The end seemed very much like the end of the series.   We got the weird/crazed eyes of Franklin (Darth Franklin?) setting out the whole point of the story.  He's already on the radar of all LE.  He is not that knowledgeable as to how to pull off a new and larger operation.  The same problems of scale would bite him again - trusting too many who are not committed to him, like Kev.

This show never lived up to its massive premise, imo, but it did create a compelling world and a few excellent characters.  If it does return, I'll watch.  

[Raja]

I just saw a season 3 promo during the NBA finals. I have to admit I wasn't expecting a return Wednesday July 10, 2019.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Crack is a helluva drug. Fall out of a speeding car but once you get your fix it's all good!

Poor Matt. Was he still using or did he simply suffer permanent damage when he was held captive and forced to snort massive amounts of cocaine?

Wonder what scheme Manboy is up to? He had the stones to roll up to Franklin's headquarters though.

Joe Kennedy. Interesting choice of idol for Franklin. The Kennedys ended up becoming one of the most tragic elite families ever.

Wow, wonder what kind of new degradation Aunt Louie was subjected to by Claudia? She seemed utterly shook when she got back home. (Or did she actually kill Claudia?)

Edited July 13, 2019 by Joimiaroxeu

[chick binewski]

 

 

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3 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Poor Matt. Was he still using or did he simply suffer permanent damage when he was held captive and forced to snort massive amounts of cocaine?

Wonder what scheme Manboy is up to? He had the stones to roll up to Franklin's headquarters though.

Joe Kennedy. Interesting choice of idol for Franklin. The Kennedys ended up becoming one of the most tragic elite families ever.

Wow, wonder what kind of new degradation Aunt Louie was subjected to by Claudia? She seemed utterly shook when she got back home. (Or did she actually kill Claudia?)

I think Matt suffered damage from his assault. I don't know that we'll get a better explanation bc it's tough to find info on this show. Jonathan Tucker went over to Showtime for Kevin Bacon's show so I'm wondering if that's why they're keeping Gustavo. 

I think Angela Lewis does such a great job with Aunt Louie; I was leaning towards her killing Claudia but I wasn't quite sure.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I liked that last scene.  It was straight out of The Omega Man.  Zombies everywhere.

Several months have passed.  Zero LE implications for all that went before.  For any and all concerned.  Gustavo survived?  Interesting.

Corporal's observations as to the problems of scaling up operations were dead on.  But, Franklin seems to have managed to do that quite well.  The Hispanic outfits all just went away, ceding all the territory to our intrepid man of the community.  Really!

I, too, would be surprised if Claudia was still breathing.

Mr. Thompson was not being truthful with Reed.  Whatever his misgivings are, he did not talk about them.  Instead, he just emoted.  As for the concerns addressed, Reed was in the right, imo.  He was doing incredibly difficult work, which he saw as helping his country.  It took all kinds of guts and guile.  His old man should have honored that.  Or...be specific as to his issues.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Raja]

On 7/13/2019 at 12:04 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Crack is a helluva drug. Fall out of a speeding car but once you get your fix it's all good!

Poor Matt. Was he still using or did he simply suffer permanent damage when he was held captive and forced to snort massive amounts of cocaine?

Wonder what scheme Manboy is up to? He had the stones to roll up to Franklin's headquarters though.

Joe Kennedy. Interesting choice of idol for Franklin. The Kennedys ended up becoming one of the most tragic elite families ever.

Wow, wonder what kind of new degradation Aunt Louie was subjected to by Claudia? She seemed utterly shook when she got back home. (Or did she actually kill Claudia?)

Manboy was up to no more than trying to protect his business and he sold out his loyal driver to become a distributor. I will go with the theory that Aunty gave Claudia an overdose

[Joimiaroxeu]

Hmm, so Aunt Louie did kill Claudia. Or at least Andre strongly wanted it to look like she did. I guess if the police had definitive proof he wouldn't been pressing Louie so hard to confess.

Was Cissy trying to do something sneaky with Franklin's money via that real estate deal? He seemed a little extra cautious about the counteroffer and she didn't seem to like it.

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Manboy was up to no more than trying to protect his business and he sold out his loyal driver to become a distributor.

I dunno, he's still acting suspicious to me. But at least Franklin's wary of him. That's what that that high school food fight reminiscing was all about. He caught Manboy in a needless lie about something relatively trivial.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Hmm, so Aunt Louie did kill Claudia. Or at least Andre strongly wanted it to look like she did. I guess if the police had definitive proof he wouldn't been pressing Louie so hard to confess.

Was Cissy trying to do something sneaky with Franklin's money via that real estate deal? He seemed a little extra cautious about the counteroffer and she didn't seem to like it.

I dunno, he's still acting suspicious to me. But at least Franklin's wary of him. That's what that that high school food fight reminiscing was all about. He caught Manboy in a needless lie about something relatively trivial.

Since they keep name dropping it. It was Foshay Jr. High, now a K-12 learning center, a bit west of the USC campus and nowhere near the projects where the robbers got themselves killed. In any case Franklin seems pragmatic as he choose Manboy to be the first franchise owner. 

I  don't recall any talk of "corner boys" growing up when Franklin threw out the term. Crack houses tended to be more protected in the middle of blocks, thus the drive by as you needed to plan and escape before shooting. I  wonder if Baltimore slang has become default due to The Wire?

Things have escalated. Last season he was teaching how to handle a revolver, now we have head shoots on a moving target, at night and Ari's guards showing off Uzis 

[Sarah 103]

On 7/13/2019 at 3:04 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Joe Kennedy. Interesting choice of idol for Franklin. The Kennedys ended up becoming one of the most tragic elite families ever.

It makes sense and reveals a great deal about Franklin. Scarface doesn't end well for the hero. The tragedy of The Godfather is that the family does not go legitmate. Vito's line to Michael towards the end of the first movie something like "I never wanted this for you. I wanted you to be Govenor Corleone, Senator Corleone." 

Also, Franklin clearly has ambitions and dreams of going legitmate. It's why he's so careful about where the money for the real estate transactions comes from. He wants to be sure it's on the up and up to the degree that it's possible given the source of his money. 

Sidenote: Joe Kennedy was not actually a major bootlegger. That is mostly a myth. Most of Joe Kennedy's money came from the stockmarket and investments, which was equally sketchy. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Sidenote: Joe Kennedy was not actually a major bootlegger. That is mostly a myth. Most of Joe Kennedy's money came from the stockmarket and investments, which was equally sketchy.  

Yeesh, that was one Wikipedia page I wish I hadn't read. Though there's no denying his financial acumen and success, and his key social/political achievements, the guy was otherwise a POS in my opinion. Arguably the sins of the father were visited upon his children, particularly the male ones.

I guess there are worse people Franklin could want to model his life on but it still doesn't make sense to me. By the period of time Snowfall takes place, the Kennedys were mostly coasting on the enduring worship of JFK and RFK. Ed was trying to live up to their legacies and JFK Jr. still seemed to be trying to find his purpose in life besides being the handsome son of Jack and Jackie. It's kind of sad to me Franklin apparently couldn't find any wealthy, high-achieving Black businessmen to emulate.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Joimiaroxeu

[Raja]

On 7/13/2019 at 9:42 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I liked that last scene.  It was straight out of The Omega Man.  Zombies everywhere.

Several months have passed.  Zero LE implications for all that went before.  For any and all concerned.  Gustavo survived?  Interesting.

Corporal's observations as to the problems of scaling up operations were dead on.  But, Franklin seems to have managed to do that quite well.  The Hispanic outfits all just went away, ceding all the territory to our intrepid man of the community.  Really!

If the roots of Franklin and Manboy around Foshay Jr High S. 3700 blocks and Leon in the Watts housing projects a hundred or so blocks further south really nowhere close the  Hispanic outfits across the LA river in East LA are even further away and harder to make a straight line to.  Black and Latino gangs starting to go after each other are at least  15 years away with more Latinos moving to South LA and the Latino kids stopped joining the legacy black gangs.

Basically they Franklin and Luisa's family were in competition to be the distributor for CIA cocaine and when Franklin was chosen the gangs went their own way as a LA nightmare of interracial gang violence  only really started on a small scale after the turn of the century.

So was Lucia written out with Gustavo going to see her mother alone?

[Lonesome Rhodes]

52 minutes ago, Raja said:

Basically they Franklin and Luisa's family were in competition to be the distributor for CIA cocaine and when Franklin was chosen the gangs went their own way as a LA nightmare of interracial gang violence  only really started on a small scale after the turn of the century.

So was Lucia written out with Gustavo going to see her mother alone?

The gang-level geography was not what I was concerned with.  That Hispanic women and her syndicate pretty much had Franklin where they wanted him.  Of course, there was Lucia's family's syndicate, as well, IIRC.  My belief, and I could be very wrong, is that the ethnicism of the ultimate distributors (ethnic gangs) would be loyal to the corresponding syndicate.

The vacuum, if there really is (was) one, at the syndicate level would be soon filled and it would be naturally divided by ethnicity.  The Jewish guy is an equal opportunity dealer and his operation does hurt my argument.  I just don't know how all that Hispanic power and organization just goes away without Franklin being there NOW, with real firepower and substantial numbers, in an area as huge as L.A. County is, it beggars belief that Franklin would be standing for very long.  The "secret" formula would not remain so for long.

Apologies if I am not understanding the point you are making. 

I thought Lucia and Gustavo were both as good as dead, if  not actually dead, at the end of last season.  I was quite surprised to see Oso as a bouncer this year.  So, what do I know?!

Edited July 22, 2019 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Sarah 103]

On 7/21/2019 at 9:06 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

By the period of time Snowfall takes place, the Kennedys were mostly coasting on the enduring worship of JFK and RFK. 

That's the point. Franklin sees how much JFK and RFK are admired. He also thinks that they rose to such heights based on money from illegal sources. He thinks that once you have the money, then go legitmate, there are few limits on what is possible and what can be accomplished. Franklin might be totally wrong, but that's what he is thinking. 

On 7/21/2019 at 9:06 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

It's kind of sad to me Franklin apparently couldn't find any wealthy, high-achieving Black businessmen to emulate.

He could, but their main source of income that they earned before starting thier company or claim to fame was not earned selling drugs or something else illegal. Berry Gordy was not a drug kingpin before starting Motown Records. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

That's the point. Franklin sees how much JFK and RFK are admired.

Their achievements were largely based on what Old Man Kennedy did before they were born or when they were children. So Franklin thinks he wants to emulate the Kennedy dynasty? Like I originally posted upthread, they were one of the most tragic elite families in US history. And they were Irish Catholics. I just don't see what Franklin is thinking he can mirror in their lives other than being rich. It's too odd to me. (And there were several wealthy robber barons who became household names. Vanderbilt and Rockefeller for example. Why the Kennedys?)

[Raja]

15 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Their achievements were largely based on what Old Man Kennedy did before they were born or when they were children. So Franklin thinks he wants to emulate the Kennedy dynasty? Like I originally posted upthread, they were one of the most tragic elite families in US history. And they were Irish Catholics. I just don't see what Franklin is thinking he can mirror in their lives other than being rich. It's too odd to me. (And there were several wealthy robber barons who became household names. Vanderbilt and Rockefeller for example. Why the Kennedys?)

Why, JFK. Franklin could not watch TV families with a shrine to a Vanderbilt or Rockefeller on the wall. but ethnic, Catholic families would as a scene setting have JFK.

[Sarah 103]

16 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Their achievements were largely based on what Old Man Kennedy did before they were born or when they were children. So Franklin thinks he wants to emulate the Kennedy dynasty? Like I originally posted upthread, they were one of the most tragic elite families in US history. And they were Irish Catholics. I just don't see what Franklin is thinking he can mirror in their lives other than being rich. It's too odd to me. (And there were several wealthy robber barons who became household names. Vanderbilt and Rockefeller for example. Why the Kennedys?)

Vanderbilt and Rockefeller (as far as I know) did not take money from illegal source and turn it into a fortune and a dynasty. They made thier money legally and legitimately, which is not something Franklin can relate to. 

Franklin sees money, wealth, power all coming from a criminal enterprise that went legitimate (remember, Franklin thinks the Kennedy fortune came from bootlegging).   

[misstwpherecool]

As CIA  Reed seems to have to tolerate alot of criminal poop. First year he had to cover up for serial killer/kidnapper along taking and covering up vigilante justice. Last year his brother was kidnapped/tortured.

Last night's epi he had to witness the slow execution of a Costa Rican criminal and now it looks like he'll have to cover up for another murderer all in the name of country(sad to see the DEA agent get popped, they seemed to work hard to get into the story yet take her out in an instant. And I'll miss the character/actress).

Losing respect for gustavo in a hurry. He's turning into a rent a thug at this point. The drug queen although a female dog was right to call him on his peasant comment.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Wow, Franklin sure cleans up well. That was a nice suit he was wearing in Panama. But I'm not sure skinny suits were a thing in the 80s.

That ex-CIA guy Dima in the jungle was giving me some Heart of Darkness meets The Teachings of Don Juan vibe.

Oh boy, at first I thought Gustavo got played but drug abuela turned out to be solid   gangsta. How does a border patrol agent get kidnapped by an old lady?

Whee, Teddy and Julia were tripping balls. But it's no telling what kind of parasites crawled into their orifices while they were in that river.

Manboy and them were just going to let Wanda go? What'll stop her from dropping a dime on them out of spite--especially if she ends up getting arrested?

Wait, Franklin was wearing socks with sandals. No. Just no. And the sandals weren't even huaraches.

Will Soledad have to get used to being dead, lol?

From Melvin Gregg's (Manboy) Instagram: Snowfall as the Black Game of Thrones

Edited July 27, 2019 by Joimiaroxeu

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Reed became persona non grata at CIA at the end of last season.  Nobody would take his call.  He was cut off.  Entirely.  Just how would he arrange for the "Seabees" to expand that airstrip?

Oso got it right again!  Border agent was spared.  Rogue Soledad not so much.  Niiiice.

Leon will not be around much longer, imo.  Wanda gonna be a major problem for Franklin.

I'm still trying to understand who is providing wholesale coke in the L.A. basin.  Who is filling the obvious gap with Avi "suspended" and the Hispanic syndicates taking the huge DEA hits? 

I am betting flower lady's boyfriend/husband will not be pleased about Franklin.

I enjoyed the Apocalypse Now/Colonel Kurtz callback.  I could have done without the Kung Fu sound effects, though.  

[Joimiaroxeu]

Buh bye, Soledad. Looks like the getter got got.

Dang, Uncle Jerome has a nice butt.

"Thank God you're one of good ones." Is it worth it, Andre? They still think you're a monkey.

Is it possible Wanda gave up the cook house? Who was that guy Franklin shot for mouthing off?

Still not sure Franklin's mom is on the up and up with the real estate investments. I think she might be siphoning money or maneuvering to get more direct access to Franklin's money.

Wonder how Andre will react when he learns Melody is just about to become a crackhead.

[UNOSEZ]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Buh bye, Soledad. Looks like the getter got got.

Dang, Uncle Jerome has a nice butt.

"Thank God you're one of good ones." Is it worth it, Andre? They still think you're a monkey.

Is it possible Wanda gave up the cook house? Who was that guy Franklin shot for mouthing off?

Still not sure Franklin's mom is on the up and up with the real estate investments. I think she might be siphoning money or maneuvering to get more direct access to Franklin's money.

Wonder how Andre will react when he learns Melody is just about to become a crackhead.

I didn't expect melody to be sniffing... Tho to be fair she wasn't taking rock.. That was pure sniffing Coke... Lotto folks rampaged in the 80s on that stuff without turning into total zombies...but I'm sure her use may pop up later in the season.... I know Andre felt some type a way from the minute he had to press the captain that the drug stuff was gonna mess with the nicer parts of town.. And then for another head cop to call everyone thugs... To Jerome getting man handled to ol boy saying he's one of the good ones ( something I was told once and lost my damn mind)... Wonder why Manboy is called Manboy... Teddy is still boring as 3 day old paint.... I hope ximena pops back up.. I'd like Franklin to get a less drama-inducing love interest... Plus I'd like to see all them black ladies and his panther daddy give him some good natured grief for bringing a Spanish (latina)  lady home...