S05.E13: Support

[Snarklepuss]

On 7/9/2017 at 6:35 PM, Neurochick said:

I'm confused as to why you see Sheila as "scary" and Ashley as not scary.  I have never thought a person who has feelings and expresses them as a scary person.  I don't get it.

I see people as scary if I'm afraid that if I say the wrong thing they'll blow up at me.  And Sheila has blown up at Nate more than once on camera.  When Ashley engages in her "discussions" with Anthony she doesn't throw a hissy fit and walk out on him saying "she's done" or "she's not doing this with him".  We've seen Sheila do that more than once.  She has berated Nate up and down on camera in a pretty heated, negative fashion.  Ashley has never done that to Anthony that we have seen on camera.  Ashley mostly has a smile on her face with an upturned note in her voice even during her most serious discussions with Anthony, while Sheila's demeanor would make me feel like I had to walk on eggshells with her.  I'd be constantly afraid to "poke the bear" with Sheila lest I say the wrong thing and set her off while I'd probably have no fear of telling Ashley to stop being a pain in the ass.

On 7/9/2017 at 8:54 PM, Paddywagon said:

As for Sheila, I find her volatility scary.  Not because she's black but because someone who emotionally goes from 0 to 60 in one minute will usually say something that's destructive and become impossible to reason with.  And it often hurts.  Nate should feel proud that he was willing to sacrifice personal comfort and live in a garage to correct his financial dilemma--hell he was single and in a bind--but Sheila didn't take time to consider that and laid into him.  That had to hurt him.  She's also done it multiple times and that's why she's scary.  At any time she and Nate can go from a nice conversation to 'this marriage is over.' Stereotypes definitely exist, no doubt, but in this case I don't think it's a stereotype, I think it's Sheila's pattern of volatility that's scary.

This times 1,000!

On 7/9/2017 at 9:49 PM, Drogo said:

I don't find Sheila volatile. Feisty, maybe. Volatile means she's about to start swinging; I've never gotten that vibe.  

I chose a feisty one.  Lit my whole world on fire. She calmed down some when she realized she wasn't getting rid of me.  I believe Nate is just right for Sheila and vice versa, and I think she'll calm down plenty when the cameras leave.  And he's nuts about her.  

I get it, N8.

Yikes, if I were like that I'd never have made it to the altar much less been married 37 years!  My husband would never put up with that stuff.  If she doesn't calm down I don't even know if Nate will be able to put up with it for the long haul.  I'm not saying she won't calm down, but usually what you see is what you get and if it's not the TV show BS setting her off it'll be something else, like when he talked about considering living in the garage.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Snarklepuss

[Snarklepuss]

On 7/9/2017 at 2:33 PM, Drogo said:

If Nate or Anthony went 37 days without some play, they would be hunched over as well, defeated.  Nate IMO wouldn't even be sitting there.

Defeated, perhaps, but they wouldn't look like dorky high school kids sitting at the cafeteria table feeling outclassed next to two adults.  It's his immaturity that is his most unattractive quality, followed by his under-confidence.  Nate would never be sitting there because he's got game and he knows it.  Both Nate and Anthony would probably end up confronting their woman if she didn't warm up to them, with stuff like "why don't you want to have sex with me?" and perhaps a little selling of themselves in a positive way.  I don't think Cody can muster up enough confidence to engage in that kind of behavior with Danielle.  He reacts by crumpling, not confronting and digging his heels in with the victim attitude like he expects to have everything come to him without having to work for it.  He gives off an air of resentment to a woman for not just complying.  From a female POV that is probably the most unattractive way he can possibly react and only sends her in the opposite direction.  The only guys that break through a situation like that are the persistent ones that keep a positive, respectful attitude toward the woman and don't let it total their confidence.  And Cody is definitely not that guy.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Snarklepuss

[gonecrackers]

I agree with you Snarkle, on what makes Sheila (or could apply to anyone) "scary".  I think Anthony is walking on eggshells too, but in a different way. Ashley is also easily offended & confronts him on it. She does it in a nicer manner which could mean she's just more careful given the cameras, or she doesn't have the same issues as Sheila.

From what Sheila said she wanted someone who would love her at her worst, so maybe she's putting a lot of that worst out there to challenge him. She may not even have been doing that consciously but it's what she does, as she expects him to leave. It also might be why she changed her name so quickly, as that could make it tougher on him to want a divorce at the end.

I think both of them are insecure; it's just coming out in different ways. I think they could calm down as Drogo said, once they both feel more secure in their marriages.

[Snarklepuss]

1 hour ago, gonecrackers said:

I agree with you Snarkle, on what makes Sheila (or could apply to anyone) "scary".  I think Anthony is walking on eggshells too, but in a different way. Ashley is also easily offended & confronts him on it. She does it in a nicer manner which could mean she's just more careful given the cameras, or she doesn't have the same issues as Sheila.

From what Sheila said she wanted someone who would love her at her worst, so maybe she's putting a lot of that worst out there to challenge him. She may not even have been doing that consciously but it's what she does, as she expects him to leave. It also might be why she changed her name so quickly, as that could make it tougher on him to want a divorce at the end.

I think both of them are insecure; it's just coming out in different ways. I think they could calm down as Drogo said, once they both feel more secure in their marriages.

ITA, and I think both Sheila and Ashley are engaging in some subconscious "relationship testing", figuring that if they put out their worst up front and the guy doesn't leave that's proof he really cares about them and isn't just leading them on.  It's based on their insecurity and lack of trust in their partner, which could be a factor in all of their relationships but is being heightened by the specific peculiarity of marrying someone at first sight.  I would have a hard time deciding which one is worse, but given the drama I'm leaning toward Sheila being the worse of the two.  I don't go to bed at night worrying that Ashley is going to up and move out on Anthony the next time he says something she doesn't like, but I do worry about that with Sheila, especially given the previews for next week.

[Drogo]

On 7/9/2017 at 3:36 PM, gonecrackers said:

Cody needs to see Danielle as his wife rather than some 'piece of' booty call.

I don't think Cody sees Danielle as a sex object, but he committed to a marriage and sex is (a big) part of a marriage so he had been expecting to have some (Cody voice-crack) SAH-ex. 

He just isn't acting like someone who Danielle or anyone I know would want to have sex with. 

[gonecrackers]

7 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

I don't go to bed at night worrying that Ashley is going to up and move out on Anthony the next time he says something she doesn't like,

I don't go to bed at night worrying about any of them (lol), but I'm unsure Ashley is in it long term. She may get her 1-2 kids & leave to be an independent single mother (with Anthony doing most of the real raising the kids work because she's too busy with her 'parent-given career').

She may want custody of the snails & fish as well, as long as Anthony cleans the tank.

7 hours ago, Drogo said:

He just isn't acting like someone who Danielle or anyone I know would want to have sex with. 

He does seem like an awesome housekeeper though, so he's got that going for himself.

Edited July 11, 2017 by gonecrackers

[Mlle. Kitty]

On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 11:39 PM, Snarklepuss said:

I said to Mr. 'Puss, "When you were a kid, wasn't there always an adult around (any adult, not even just your parents) to correct you when you said stuff like that?"  He said, "Yes, and every adult had license to correct you, and it was everyone's duty to raise us correctly".  Today parents would act offended if anyone else corrected their children, and yet they don't correct them either.  I've heard that grammar isn't even taught in school anymore.  That's why we have an entire generation that doesn't know basic grammar.  Don't get me started!

Is this true?  I weep for our future. :-(

[Snarklepuss]

5 hours ago, Mlle. Kitty said:

Is this true?  I weep for our future. :-(

I'll share my Kleenex with you:

http://ttlearning.com/blog/why-dont-us-schools-teach-grammar/

BTW, I think this is a case where the conclusions drawn from studies are WRONG.

[jpagan05]

On 7/9/2017 at 3:49 PM, Drogo said:

I don't find Sheila volatile. Feisty, maybe. Volatile means she's about to start swinging; I've never gotten that vibe.  

I chose a feisty one.  Lit my whole world on fire. She calmed down some when she realized she wasn't getting rid of me.  I believe Nate is just right for Sheila and vice versa, and I think she'll calm down plenty when the cameras leave.  And he's nuts about her.  

I get it, N8.

YES! I love Sheila. I think she is incredibly emotionally mature and knows herself very well. I do think she sometimes underestimates Nate because of his age, but they always see to find their way through together. I think their mutual spirituality helps. I'm really rooting for them. 

[Stinamaia]

I definitely do not see Sheila as scary. At all.  I think she is difficult to talk to when she is angry and it seems that is most often when her feelings are hurt. She lacks practice using good techniques in arguments.  She doesn't seem violent.  She should stop saying hurtful things when she is angry, but so should many people.  

[27bored]

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LMAO Sorry I wish it wasn't a laughable comment but it is because sadly this show will never do that. The screen for drama and nothing more it seems like. If by chance they miss that boat they seem to try to create it by butting in or having "experts" say things to make one doubt something.

Yeah, you're probably right. I do hope they're a bit clearer though the next go-round. The producers on this show have to deal with one couple who seemed to hit it off from day one, one couple where the chick is scared to show how neurotic she is on camera, and another where all they do is walk around holding hands talking about how they aren't fucking. They have to know that's boring.

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She's said more than once 'chemistry' is extremely important for her, & she's not feeling it. I'm just watching it & I'm not feeling it.

I've said before that if chemistry was so important to her she was stupid to do this because you can't judge chemistry on paper. And if the experts knew that chemistry was this important to her they also should've known they couldn't match for chemistry & disqualified her immediately.

I agree she shouldn't be stringing him along, & I don't think he's experienced enough to realize the problem, so he just keeps 'tryin' so hard'.

She's pretty much got great live-in, although awkward, free housekeeping services for the 8 weeks.

Well, here's the thing: this reminds me of an episode of Sex and the City. Carrie had just broken up with Big (the first time) and she was bugging her friends about how great she was to him and how bad he was to her. They finally said she needs to go see a therapist. She goes and the therapist tells her very simply, "maybe you're picking the wrong men". She thought it was bullshit, basic advice and so did her friends. She met a guy (played by Jon Bon Jovi) who was also seeing her therapist whom she was attracted to. They went out to dinner and whatnot and she was really attracted to him. Eventually they slept together and she asked him why he was in therapy. He said he was fucked up about women and that once he slept with them he lost all interest. That's when she realized: I pick the wrong men.

How that relates to Danielle is pretty much the same thing applies to her. Danielle, you pick the wrong men. The wrong men interest you, excite you, arouse you. Maybe going against type might actually work. The "professionals" might have understood that about her, but she's been resistant to it. I remember when she sat down with the Pastor and he told her that she was letting her past relationships affect what she currently wants. She continues to describe the type of guy she had who cheated on her for years...and this is why Cody doesn't do it for her.

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I don't think Danielle or anyone needs a "coherent" reason not to sleep with someone. Sex should never be mandatory, not even in a marriage. I guess some people have an easier time getting into bed with a stranger than others, and maybe Danielle foolishly expected to be matched with someone remotely compatible to her that would make that part of the "experiment" easier. The more I see of Cody the more I understand why she's not feeling it. He is so awkward and whiny and the eating with his mouth wide open thing is 100% a dealbreaker for some of us. I don't see why people think she's so rough looking, either. A little sun damage but otherwise I think she looks fine. Cody's not that bad looking, either; it's just everything else about him that I don't like.

Eh, you kinda do need a "coherent" reason when you agree to marry a stranger whom you know is trying to please you and be the kind of spouse you want. Danielle doesn't owe me a "coherent" explanation, but I don't think she's even given Cody one, which is kind of bullshit. I've said it before, but I would never tell a woman to sleep with a guy if she didn't want to. I can even understand a certain amount of ambivalence. But Danielle needs to realize, whether she sleeps with Cody or not, it's not going to guarantee that they wind up happily ever after, it's not going to guarantee he's the right person for her, it's not going to guarantee his flaws go away. It's a separate and distinct decision from how you feel about him eating with his mouth open. But my thing is, whatever she might like about him is more than likely going to leave if she doesn't show any real affection towards him. What reason does Cody have to even try to be there for Danielle if all she wants to do is make s'mores, hold hands, stress about being double-booked, and wash her untrained dogs? 

I think a lot of marriages, if not all of them to some degree, only work because both sides invest in the other person's needs. There are a lot of "good" husbands out there who have no reason to step up to the plate because the wife isn't showing them any love -- that doesn't just mean sex, but it definitely includes it.

Plus, let's keep it real: Danielle is 30 years old. At 30 you should not doing this much gnashing of the teeth over whether you're going to sleep with someone. In the real world, most guys would've been like Bye Felicia if she was acting like having sex was this huge step. This is not Dawson's Creek. Either fuck or just let the man go. Period.

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YES! I love Sheila. I think she is incredibly emotionally mature and knows herself very well. I do think she sometimes underestimates Nate because of his age, but they always see to find their way through together. I think their mutual spirituality helps. I'm really rooting for them.

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I definitely do not see Sheila as scary. At all.  I think she is difficult to talk to when she is angry and it seems that is most often when her feelings are hurt. She lacks practice using good techniques in arguments.  She doesn't seem violent.  She should stop saying hurtful things when she is angry, but so should many people. 

I gotta disagree. I think Sheila is volatile. Not in a violent kind of way, but if you get mad and you start talking crazy...that's volatile in my book. I think Sheila has a lot to offer, but she's exactly the type of woman who would get cheated on by the guy she's with. Not that she would deserve it, per se, but the thing is, when you use your words to cut into people, especially a man, it's a little trickier than you might think to smooth it over once your temper has settled. Because even if he forgives you because he figures you were just upset and were being emotional, in the back of his mind he's going to feel like a sucker for doing it since you're going to be right back to talking shit the next time you get upset. 

I'm attracted to feisty women too, but I've come to learn that when women are Quick Draw McGraw with "the read", that means they're extra sensitive, moody as fuck, and ultimately don't fuck with you like you may think they do. 

Edited July 12, 2017 by 27bored

[Snarklepuss]

16 hours ago, 27bored said:

How that relates to Danielle is pretty much the same thing applies to her. Danielle, you pick the wrong men. The wrong men interest you, excite you, arouse you. Maybe going against type might actually work. The "professionals" might have understood that about her, but she's been resistant to it. I remember when she sat down with the Pastor and he told her that she was letting her past relationships affect what she currently wants. She continues to describe the type of guy she had who cheated on her for years...and this is why Cody doesn't do it for her.

In my experience, just because women have had bad relationship experiences doesn't necessarily mean they've got a pattern of being attracted to the "wrong kind of men".  Even so-called "nice" guys can do some shitty things in relationships.  Not all attractive "guy's guys" are cheaters and abusers.  A fair amount of those are actually beta men that pass themselves off as "nice guys" but are really wolves in sheep's clothing.  Is Cody the "right" kind of guy?  Personally he lost me when he claimed he was "having sex every day up until the experiment".  Doesn't sound like the "right" kind of guy to me!

I remember when I was in the middle of a divorce - A married couple who were friends of mine fixed me up with a guy friend of theirs that they thought was a stand-up, decent, solid kind of guy.  I dated him for a while and only after I learned the hard way that he was a bitter, angry misogynist that only worked well with a subservient woman that let him boss them around and abuse them.*  You'd never know this from knowing him as a friend or casually dating him.  This only came out once it looked like it was heading into a relationship.  Then when I told the couple that fixed me up with him about how he really was, they told me a similar story as your SATC analogy.  I said, "Wait a minute, YOU fixed me up with this guy and sold him on me like he was the NICEST guy in the entire WORLD and now you're going to tell me I'm attracted to the "wrong" kinds of guys???"  Unbelievable!

And I remember that SATC episode and thought it was BS when I saw it - I suppose Carrie was supposed to have a crystal ball to see inside a guy's heart to know whether he has "issues".  Sometimes people don't wear their dysfunctions on their sleeves and you don't find out until you've already invested some time in them.

* Note that much later I found out he married a subservient Asian woman that was looking to become a US citizen.  Match made in heaven (hell?)  I guess!

P.S.  I agree with you 100% about Sheila!

Edited July 13, 2017 by Snarklepuss

[Guest]

On 7/10/2017 at 8:25 PM, yb125 said:

 I do wonder if she was honest with must-haves (like the level and kind of assertiveness she wants). However, even if she wasn't, I feel like if the experts do their due diligence they would have known.

Danielle was VERY honest about the age issue. They showed a clip of her being asked if she would consider a younger man. She looked rather shocked, hesitated, then carefully said that, maybe, one or two years younger might be acceptable.  The experts ignored her honest response.

[Drogo]

A reminder that no one here needs to provide receipts for their opinions, ex: no one needs to know Danielle/Cody personally to have an opinion about their story.

And let's be careful about the tone - this is a nice friendly place to talk trash about this ridiculous show and we'd like it to remain that way.

[Guest]

I love Sheila.  She's witty, well read, has gorgeous clothes, and doesn't seem to collect grievances.  She tells you why she's angry, then you kiss and make up. She would fit in with my Italian upbringing. 

[27bored]

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In my experience, just because women have had bad relationship experiences doesn't necessarily mean they've got a pattern of being attracted to the "wrong kind of men".  Even so-called "nice" guys can do some shitty things in relationships.  Not all attractive "guy's guys" are cheaters and abusers.  A fair amount of those are actually beta men that pass themselves off as "nice guys" but are really wolves in sheep's clothing.  Is Cody the "right" kind of guy?  Personally he lost me when he claimed he was "having sex every day up until the experiment".  Doesn't sound like the "right" kind of guy to me!

Well, I said that for a couple of reasons. First of all, it's annoying when people who sign up to be matched up insist on having a type, but when they had that type it didn't work out, and they low-key judge the new person based on what they found attractive about a prior relationship. That ended. Second, Danielle said her ex, who's a guy's guy, cheated on her for years. Now, I do wonder what she was like in that relationship, but it's not her fault for being cheated on. It's her fault if she stayed while he did it, and it's her fault if her subsequent relationships didn't work because she keeps comparing other men to that one relationship where the guy was unfaithful. I don't take her saying words like "assertive" and "guy's guy" literally because I don't know exactly what she means in a real-world context. If she's been in two long-term relationships that ultimately failed, Danielle should understand that the ____ guy she wants might not be the right guy. Because he might be good for you on paper or give off the right non-verbal cues, but at the end of the day HE MIGHT WIND UP CHEATING ON YOU FOR YEARS. 

Plus, I mildly resent the fact that I get the feeling Danielle's friendzoning Cody because he's gone patiently. Assertive guy's guys, or even horndog creeps, probably would've told Danielle and her bangs deuces about a month in. That's why I think the whole "guy's guy" thing is bullshit. I think Danielle is keeping Cody at arm's length because he's safe. She knows if she decided to give it up tomorrow he'd be as happy as a pig in slop. It's a power thing. If he just gave up and kind of went through the motions while resigning to the fact that she isn't going to sleep with him, she'll just say he was only in it for sex. If he keeps bringing up the issue, she just keeps stringing him along with not being ready. Best thing for him honestly would've been to have left after a month of no sex, or after she took him to the park where her and boyfriend used to go before and after they would have sex, or when she made him s'mores by the fire.

Of course nobody in the whole wide world would've agreed with him leaving her for not having sex, but everybody can see she's just not that into him.

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I remember when I was in the middle of a divorce - A married couple who were friends of mine fixed me up with a guy friend of theirs that they thought was a stand-up, decent, solid kind of guy.  I dated him for a while and only after I learned the hard way that he was a bitter, angry misogynist that only worked well with a subservient woman that let him boss them around and abuse them.*  You'd never know this from knowing him as a friend or casually dating him.  This only came out once it looked like it was heading into a relationship.  Then when I told the couple that fixed me up with him about how he really was, they told me a similar story as your SATC analogy.  I said, "Wait a minute, YOU fixed me up with this guy and sold him on me like he was the NICEST guy in the entire WORLD and now you're going to tell me I'm attracted to the "wrong" kinds of guys???"  Unbelievable!

And I remember that SATC episode and thought it was BS when I saw it - I suppose Carrie was supposed to have a crystal ball to see inside a guy's heart to know whether he has "issues".  Sometimes people don't wear their dysfunctions on their sleeves and you don't find out until you've already invested some time in them.

* Note that much later I found out he married a subservient Asian woman that was looking to become a US citizen.  Match made in heaven (hell?)  I guess!

Yeah, your friends were crazy in that situation.

The SATC episode, to me, was more that her therapist's simple diagnosis and explanation was something she knew, but didn't believe. She blamed Big for hurting her; she never even thought that she was just into the wrong types of men. She didn't feel it until she slept with the dude and he told her he lost interest after sleeping with women. I really believe Danielle could have the same epiphany. If one of the therapists on MAFS told her, Danielle, you're attracted to and pick the wrong types of men, she'll probably nod along, but not really believe it. She'll probably let Cody go because he just isn't right for her, go on about her life, meet a guy, get attracted to him, sleep with him, date for awhile, and then he'll start calling her out on her bullshit and not being patient with her and probably talking a little rough to her, and she'll realize, "I have exactly the kind of guy I wanted...and it kinda sucks". 

Edited July 13, 2017 by 27bored

[Evil Queen]

3 hours ago, 27bored said:

Second, Danielle said her ex, who's a guy's guy, cheated on her for years. Now, I do wonder what she was like in that relationship, but it's not her fault for being cheated on. It's her fault if she stayed while he did it, and it's her fault if her subsequent relationships didn't work because she keeps comparing other men to that one relationship where the guy was unfaithful.

I am going to add to this that we have no clue how she was at all in the relationship. She may not be as innocent in the matter either. She could have been doing the same thing as well. Or something else even that wasn't great. We have no clue really at all. I am sure there is more to the story than just she stayed with a dude that was cheating on her. She doesn't strike me though as innocent in anything and just one that would sit by and let a guy do that to her over and over again. 

[booboopbedoo]

On 11/07/2017 at 0:07 AM, Snarklepuss said:

As for Sheila, I find her volatility scary.  Not because she's black but because someone who emotionally goes from 0 to 60 in one minute will usually say something that's destructive and become impossible to reason with.  And it often hurts.  Nate should feel proud that he was willing to sacrifice personal comfort and live in a garage to correct his financial dilemma--hell he was single and in a bind--but Sheila didn't take time to consider that and laid into him.  That had to hurt him.  She's also done it multiple times and that's why she's scary.  At any time she and Nate can go from a nice conversation to 'this marriage is over.' Stereotypes definitely exist, no doubt, but in this case I don't think it's a stereotype, I think it's Sheila's pattern of volatility that's scary.

You could never have a discussion with her where she agrees. She would be Done! I felt bad for Nathan watching her berate him. Who does she think she is??

She goes for the jugular over any little thing.

On 13/07/2017 at 4:51 AM, Swim mom said:

The experts ignored her honest response.

They seem to do that with everyone don't they???

[discoprincess]

On 7/7/2017 at 10:50 AM, humbleopinion said:

I rolled my eyes so hard watching this show I think I sprained my eye muscles...I hope I recover before next week's episode...not...

Angie( my brows are rock stars) and Charlie (how did you learn table manners and Cody didn't) and their continued budding relationship are trotted out to center stage as a  contrast to the sexless, joyless, bitter hot mess of a situation that Danielle and Cody are trying keep afloat until the Decision show.

The pizza looked delicious until Cody decided to make it SEE FOOD...which we got to see smashing against his chompers in HD.

Nothing in the deep dish scene is news to the 4 participants...just another producer driven vignette to eat up minutes for the show.

When Charlie called out Danielle's assertions as not sounding very convincing, I was like, "Whoa!" Cody's probably been telling Charlie stuff.

[gonecrackers]

I just watched Unfiltered for this episode & Danielle made it clear that she had told Cody "multiple times" that she wasn't ready for sex with him not due to her trust issues as he tends to say but because she was "not feeling a spark".

I had heard her say that in her TH's but now that answers my question that she definitely did make that clear to Cody.

If he had just been mentioning their lack of sex in the TH's I don't think Danielle would've felt so much pressure. She's said she was 'very aware' of his issue with it. Feeling pressured for sex from someone you don't feel a spark with just makes it that much worse.

I really enjoyed the part where Jamie spoke of her asking Doug to be patient with her so she could feel more of an emotional connection with him & it could be real & organic, & that even at the end of the experiment they still had not had sex yet there it is & they stayed together.

I watched Cody be very still while she was explaining that to him but at the end he just nodded as he always does & claimed that was why he was "being patient". Even with production spin I don't see him as patient at all. I also felt that was dismissive of what Jamie was trying to explain to him which he clearly did not understand. Danielle has said before she does not feel heard when she speaks to Cody & I can definitely see why.

Cody mentioned being "very sexually active" beforehand & not having it was too much of a lifestyle change. That says to me that he couldn't shift from booty call to emotional involvement & love making - not just sex, & this is more his problem than Danielle's. It doesn't show he actually gives a shit about her if he can't work on the emotional & just let the physical happen when it should.

So neither should've been chosen for this show because -

       -Danielle needs to feel chemistry with someone & no one can gauge that on paper
       -Cody needs someone who will have sex with him immediately AND be someone he can grow into an emotional relationship with as well - that will take time & both will have to be willing

End of the day again I'm not a big fan of either but this was a mess of a match... good luck to both of them finding what they each need.

[discoprincess]

Danielle should have pulled the Plug early, like Heather did last season.

 

Cody is probably expecting Danielle to put out as one of her wifely duties. (Note how he keeps referring to her as "wife".)

 

These two should get an annulment, not a divorce.

[Jellybeans]

If they don't consummate their marriage they probably will.  The season is not over.  For all we know they may be be playing the viewers and having sex. 

I do not believe that for a moment, just saying it isn't over.  It just feels that way.  Sigh.

[Evil Queen]

2 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

I just watched Unfiltered for this episode & Danielle made it clear that she had told Cody "multiple times" that she wasn't ready for sex with him not due to her trust issues as he tends to say but because she was "not feeling a spark".

I had heard her say that in her TH's but now that answers my question that she definitely did make that clear to Cody.

If he had just been mentioning their lack of sex in the TH's I don't think Danielle would've felt so much pressure. She's said she was 'very aware' of his issue with it. Feeling pressured for sex from someone you don't feel a spark with just makes it that much worse.

The problem with this whole thing at the end of the day is the stupid ass producers and "experts" when they pop in. They are the ones telling them to bring it up all the time and putting the pressure on. They are the ones playing with edits to make it all about sex and nothing else. They are making it look like Cody isn't listening but obviously he is and I am to the point that I doubt he is that much into her either...and its been that way early on as well. Whether this is the reason is another story but I do agree that they should not have been on this show or matched. Neither is ready for marriage and both are still very immature in that area. Yet at least they aren't being assholes to each other and constantly fighting with name calling or worse. They just got some shit edits both their ways...I say that as someone that doesn't care for this 2 and wish they weren't on the show at all. 

Editing to add that I don't think during Jamie's season the pressure was there from the production side and "experts" side like it is now. The first season was very different from everything that has happened after it. That is usually the case with all "reality" shows it seems though. So they treated them differently compared to after it and beyond, where it has just got worse. 

Edited July 16, 2017 by Evil Queen

[gonecrackers]

16 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

The problem with this whole thing at the end of the day is the stupid ass producers and "experts" when they pop in. They are the ones telling them to bring it up all the time and putting the pressure on. They are the ones playing with edits to make it all about sex and nothing else. They are making it look like Cody isn't listening but obviously he is and I am to the point that I doubt he is that much into her either...and its been that way early on as well. Whether this is the reason is another story but I do agree that they should not have been on this show or matched. Neither is ready for marriage and both are still very immature in that area. Yet at least they aren't being assholes to each other and constantly fighting with name calling or worse. They just got some shit edits both their ways...I say that as someone that doesn't care for this 2 and wish they weren't on the show at all. 

Editing to add that I don't think during Jamie's season the pressure was there from the production side and "experts" side like it is now. The first season was very different from everything that has happened after it. That is usually the case with all "reality" shows it seems though. So they treated them differently compared to after it and beyond, where it has just got worse. 

I agree on editing showing things the way they want to, but now Danielle has said that Cody himself has made it clear to her he's not happy about not having sex & the pressure has been on for her. The edits make it look like it's all sex talk all the time, but I think between them minus cameras it may not be all the time but it's enough she's felt pressure.

By not listening I mean not even sex related. I watched another -not sex related- convo between them where all he did was nod & say 'yeah' 'yeah' & 'it's so haaaaard', etc, without really understanding what she was saying. I just don't think he's a great listener, in general, & that's not going to help her connect with someone she's not feeling it for to begin with, KWIM?

I also agree it's nice to see two people knowing this is not going well but still not fighting etc. It does show they seem to have a friendship, but that's about all they're going to have together.

Edited July 17, 2017 by gonecrackers

[Snarklepuss]

19 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

I agree on editing showing things the way they want to, but now Danielle has said that Cody himself has made it clear to her he's not happy about not having sex & the pressure has been on for her. The edits make it look like it's all sex talk all the time, but I think between them minus cameras it may not be all the time but it's enough she's felt pressure.

By not listening I mean not even sex related. I watched another -not sex related- convo between them where all he did was nod & say 'yeah' 'yeah' & 'it's so haaaaard', etc, without really understanding what she was saying. I just don't think he's a great listener, in general, & that's not going to help her connect with someone she's not feeling it for to begin with, KWIM?

I also agree it's nice to see two people knowing this is not going well but still not fighting etc. It does show they seem to have a friendship, but that's about all they're going to have together.

Gone, there you go again, thinking my thoughts before I have a chance to write them - I just caught up with that "Unfiltered" last night and it became clear to me that it's not just the editing giving us the impression that Cody is putting too much pressure on Danielle to have sex, it's both Danielle and Cody given her statement and his behavior in that "Unfiltered" segment.  When Jamie Otis told him her story about how she didn't have sex with Doug until after the 6 weeks were up because she wanted it to feel organic and know that it came out of true feeling for each other, he looked as if he was squirming and uncomfortable at even having to hear a story like that, as if all he can think about is his damned sexual frustration.  It was almost like he was emotionally holding his hands over his ears and saying "LALALALALALALA, I DON'T HEAR YOU".  Or "I know, I know, but it's so haaaaard, why should I have to wait?  I think I deserve to get LAID already, after all, I'm MARRIED!".  I am SURE that this kind of subtle or not so subtle pressure is what's putting Danielle off.  She may not have had any particular revulsion to him before this but just wanted to take some time to get to know him first, but then when he started acting like a crybaby with a bad attitude about it, it only put her further off.  And truthfully, if I were her in that situation I would feel the exact same way.  I can remember guys doing that to me and all it does is push you away, not make you more interested.  What's attractive about his behavior?  If he can't man up and respect her feelings about it (which it's obvious he doesn't, because all he's thinking about is himself despite what he says), then I don't blame her one bit.

[Evil Queen]

I actually doubt he is sexually frustrated at this point. I think he is tired of the topic and so is she....especially when its all they are showing us and there is so much more that went on they could have given us. Yet if they are being egged on by the producers and "experts" to discuss nothing else I would think at that point neither one of them wants to hear about it again after a certain point hits from it being set up to discuss over and over and over again. With this show there is ALWAYS a TON more to the stories we see.

[Snarklepuss]

12 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

I actually doubt he is sexually frustrated at this point. I think he is tired of the topic and so is she....especially when its all they are showing us and there is so much more that went on they could have given us. Yet if they are being egged on by the producers and "experts" to discuss nothing else I would think at that point neither one of them wants to hear about it again after a certain point hits from it being set up to discuss over and over and over again. With this show there is ALWAYS a TON more to the stories we see.

I don't know, I tend to think that when they're talking with Jamie after the fact they're a little more genuine and transparent and willing to "give their side" of things since Jamie is a generally neutral party, which has typically been the case with this show in other instances, such as Danielle telling us that her hesitance to have sex with Cody was not about her "trust issues" from former relationships, but because there was "no spark" and that she wanted it to feel "organic" and not "forced".  Well, yeah, if she's feeling that much pressure from Cody AND the show to have sex with him, it's going to make her run in the other direction.  I don't think Cody likes to hear the truth which is why he's made it all about Danielle's "trust issues" in his mind.  It's much easier for him if he frames it in such a way to absolve himself of any responsibility for it.  Not listening to what Jamie had to say was so he could continue to not have to face his role in things.  But then he ends up looking that much more immature.

[gonecrackers]

Agree Snarkle, & that's why I deal with Jamie to watch Unfiltered because I do feel we get a bit more 'real' there from them.  Danielle made it clear there that she's felt pressure from Cody as well, so it's not just production telling him to talk about it all the time, although like you said that was also happening & just making it worse.

I also agree he's having trouble with the truth, in that Danielle is just not feeling it for him & nothing he's doing is changing that (although he does make it worse). He's young & this could be a blow to his ego, but he's not handling it well. Jamie made some very valid points when explaining her own need to wait & how her husband was patient, but for Cody to acknowledge that would take away his feeling of entitlement. He could've/should've been paying attention & learning something.

I've not been against Cody to this point & not a huge fan of Danielle's but he's becoming more aggravating to me in that he's just so damn clueless. This isn't a booty call & it's not dating, but just because he's "got a ring on my finger man" (cut it out Cody) doesn't mean she's going to automatically want him when they didn't even know each other prior, & that's a chance he was (supposedly) willing to take.

I mean crap there are people who have damages in long term marriages who need to take time away from the physical to work on the emotional first, because if you don't have that the physical really does just turn into a booty call, & Danielle said that's not what she wants. It's also not the mark of a deeper relationship such as marriage.

I know regardless they're friends & that's been a good thing, but it's annoying watching him in Unfiltered acting like he's just so freakin' (lost the 'g' just for Cody) concerned about himself that he's probably not going to learn a damn thing from this experience & his own failed part he played.

[Snarklepuss]

17 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Agree Snarkle, & that's why I deal with Jamie to watch Unfiltered because I do feel we get a bit more 'real' there from them.  Danielle made it clear there that she's felt pressure from Cody as well, so it's not just production telling him to talk about it all the time, although like you said that was also happening & just making it worse.

I also agree he's having trouble with the truth, in that Danielle is just not feeling it for him & nothing he's doing is changing that (although he does make it worse). He's young & this could be a blow to his ego, but he's not handling it well. Jamie made some very valid points when explaining her own need to wait & how her husband was patient, but for Cody to acknowledge that would take away his feeling of entitlement. He could've/should've been paying attention & learning something.

I've not been against Cody to this point & not a huge fan of Danielle's but he's becoming more aggravating to me in that he's just so damn clueless. This isn't a booty call & it's not dating, but just because he's "got a ring on my finger man" (cut it out Cody) doesn't mean she's going to automatically want him when they didn't even know each other prior, & that's a chance he was (supposedly) willing to take.

I mean crap there are people who have damages in long term marriages who need to take time away from the physical to work on the emotional first, because if you don't have that the physical really does just turn into a booty call, & Danielle said that's not what she wants. It's also not the mark of a deeper relationship such as marriage.

I know regardless they're friends & that's been a good thing, but it's annoying watching him in Unfiltered acting like he's just so freakin' (lost the 'g' just for Cody) concerned about himself that he's probably not going to learn a damn thing from this experience & his own failed part he played.

Can I double like this?  Totally spot-on and exactly what I think.

What gets me is why don't the experts realize this and tell him to cool his jets a little?  It's like they are clueless too and/or want to sabotage things for the drama.  I'm beginning to think these people are just there for the paycheck, seriously.  At least in the early seasons before the experts changed there was at least some lame attempt at giving them real coaching, but now it's all just fluff and what looks to me like veiled attempts at relationship sabotage!

Oh man, I just had a memory from way back - I had a boyfriend in some ways like Cody back in the year one.  He might have been around Cody's age and he was the baby of a big family and the stereotype of the spoiled man-child in some ways.  He had a very high sex drive and when I wasn't in the mood or genuinely not feeling well (both of which were rare) he acted like a big baby about it, hovering around, giving me that hang-dog hurt puppy look, starting fights and being generally disagreeable, which only made me feel even less like having sex with him.  As you might have already figured out, his self-centered immaturity was a big factor in my breaking up with him and to this day I think about what a big baby he was about not having sex maybe ONE DAY in an entire month. I know this is probably TMI but it was when I woke up once in the middle of the night when we went away on a trip and found him trying to take advantage of me in my sleep that I knew it was time to get rid of him! (You'd better believe I made him sleep on the couch that night!)

Anyway, Cody needs to understand that this is supposed to be a long term relationship.  If he were thinking of having the rest of their lives to figure all this stuff out he might relax a little and see the big picture, but he's being lead around by his "little head" and can't even think past what he needs right now.  You can't have a mature relationship with a guy like that.  The way he's acting is only going to make her think all he wants is sex and nothing else.  He pays lip service to the other aspects of the relationship but she knows better.  Danielle is thinking for the long haul because she senses that he's preoccupied with getting her in the sack and that's not what she was looking for.  She wants it to be a real relationship first with sex as the outgrowth of that.  And he can't even get past his hormones to appreciate that.  He's acting like he can't invest himself emotionally UNTIL she has sex with him.  That's why he acted like he had so little trust in her.  Why should he trust her if she won't PUT OUT?  LOL  Meanwhile a mature guy can put all that aside and be patient until a woman feels ready.  When Danielle says there's no "spark", I think she's actually talking about them clicking on an emotional level.  Because we all know that a lot of women tend to want to feel that first before they feel "right" about having sex if this is a relationship they have hopes of turning into something long term.  But how can she get past go with him to "click" when he's acting like such a spoiled brat?  Seriously!

Edited July 19, 2017 by Snarklepuss