Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[GraceK]

Just now, tangerine95 said:

Yeah I don't think this was well set up even tho I don't find it totally unbelievable either

Then every interview and commentary was all bullshit and we have been lied to for years if they go this route and it is a major disservice to fans. 

[glowbug]

I find this leak hard to believe. It would be totally believable for Book Tyrion but not Show Tyrion, though neither would believably team up with Cersei. What was supposed to blow everyone’s minds not related to what happens in the show? Where are Jon and Dany? Even if they spend most of the time on dragon back (the dragons survive?) one or both would likely come down at some point. I just don’t see how these leaks could be possible. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by glowbug

[whateverdgaf]

Although I have my doubts about the Tyrion stuff, all I can think about how it looks like Brienne is still stuck playing Sansa's nursemaid. She better dump her after this.

Edited September 15, 2018 by whateverdgaf

[nikma]

Just now, glowbug said:

I find this leak hard to believe.

Because you don't like it.

 

Just now, glowbug said:

t would be totally believable for Book Tyrion but not Show Tyrion

Well, we knew for years they will use the same ending. 

Friki said he heard a rumor that WF will be rebuilt while Tyrion dies, but he said that's just a rumor, not leak. So maybe Jon and Dany are there. 

[Happy Harpy]

14 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Interesting, but I still want to know who Tyrion betrays Dany and Jon to and where are they during the trial at Dragon Pit.

The Iron Bank?

The other new character might be a banker, since Mark Gattiss isn't coming back. I wouldn't be surprised if the IB changed sides in the last season more often than Joffrey killed puppies.

Cue "all the absent characters are ded" and Sansa/Handsome Strickland fics by the dozen, LOL.

Not finding the motivation believable at all. Tyrion doesn't have a family to betray anyone for anymore (Jaime dead, Cersei removed from power and miscarriage). He didn't show any hatred or resent for the population of KL since S4. Usually, when a detail will be important D&D remind of it here and there.

There's a contradiction in the spoilers, too. Tyrion betrays "the Starks", from the North, partly because he hates people from KL?

Important details are missing, of course, but taking it with a Gregor of salt.

[Eyes High]

16 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I don't find it plausible that both Jon and Dany are dead

Well, of course you don't, but look at the facts.

The trial of Dany's Hand is held while Jon and Dany are still locked in mortal combat on dragonback? What, Davos and company decide to hold Tyrion's trial in Jon and Dany's absence to pass the time? Nah. If they're not there, it's because they're dead. RIP Jon and Dany. 

The biggest argument against Jon and Dany dying was the 1993 letter OG5 protection caveat, which of course doesn't apply if Tyrion dies. If he dies, the others are fair game. And Frikidoctor has no information about Jon and Dany's survival, so...

I'm pretty sure Frikidoctor's leaker is stringing him along, for what it's worth. Claiming that Joe didn't film anything was a rookie mistake.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Eyes High

[tangerine95]

2 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Then every interview and commentary was all bullshit and we have been lied to for years if they go this route and it is a major disservice to fans. 

I agree,but I also think of the hiatus where they insisted Jon Snow as totally dead and there will be no loophole,he's not coming back etc.They've lied before to protect a twist so I can see it happening especially for the biggest one ever which imo this would totally be if it's true.I can see book Tyrion doing this but show Tyrion has been changed so much it seems impossible.But then again I also always believed the books and the show would have the same ending.

[glowbug]

7 minutes ago, nikma said:

Well, we knew for years they will use the same ending. 

Yes, I know this and it’s possible for Tyrion to have the same ending in both mediums that make sense for both characters. This doesn’t make sense for either. Book Tyrion seems capable of the deed but teaming up with Cersei makes no sense. Although if he is actually loyal to Faegon in the books I could maybe believe that. But I can’t see Show Tyrion teaming up with Cersei or not caring about the citizens of King’s Landing. 

ETA: I don’t disbelieve it because I don’t like the twist. I won’t like it if both Jon and Dany die, or if either dies, but I find it believable. I find a lot of endings believable that I wouldn’t like. This is just not one of them. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by glowbug

[nikma]

5 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Tyrion doesn't have a family to betray anyone for anymore (Jaime dead, Cersei removed from power and miscarriage).

It's obvious betrayal will happen while they are all alive.

 

5 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Tyrion betrays "the Starks", from the North, partly because he hates people from KL?

Friki never said that. He just said that this is what Tyrion says about people of KL. 

3 minutes ago, glowbug said:

This doesn’t make sense for either.

Maybe. But it will still happen. Not everything is written perfectly. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by nikma

[tangerine95]

What confuses me is what exactly is Tyrion expecting.Like he's aware the NK and his army are coming to kill everyone,it's not going to matter who is on the throne.Jon and Dany are their absolute best chance because they have the resources to even put up a fight.So what would be his endgame to betraying them in those circumstances is what doesn't make sense to me.I guess he could have made a deal with Cersei that they let them deal with it and them kill them if they win but that's really straight up villain stuff and pretty risky as well.

Edited September 15, 2018 by tangerine95

[nikma]

Friki just said that there will be TWO extra PLOT TWISTS (apart from Tyrion's) in S8. He will make new videos when he has more info and confirm them.

[SimoneS]

8 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Well, of course you don't, but look at the facts.

 

Jon and Dany not being there and the inconsistency with BoatSexBaby's spumors makes me doubt that Friki's leaks are indeed "facts."  Why doesn't Friki know where Jon and Dany are? This would be the first question that I would ask if someone told me that Tyrion betrayed them and was put on trial.

Edited September 15, 2018 by SimoneS

[nikma]

1 minute ago, tangerine95 said:

What confuses me is what exactly is Tyrion expecting.Like he's aware the NK and his army are coming to kill everyone,it's not going to matter who is on the throne.Jon and Dany are their absolute best chance because they have the resources to even put up a fight.So what would be his endgame to betraying them in those circumstances is what doesn't make sense to me.I guess he could have made a deal with Cersei that they let them deal with it and them kill them if they win but that's really straight up villain stuff and pretty risky as well.

I think when people don't like something they don't want to think out of box to see how it could make sense, they just reject it.

For example, maybe Sansa wants to make sure that Starks never suffer like they suffered during WOT5K, she wants to secure strong influence on the Throne through Jon. I don't think Sansa would want Tyrion to die or anything similar, but I'm not sure about Cersei at all. And even with Jaime, he is responsable for Blackfish's death, he committed many crimes in Riverlands in S1, he killed Jory Cassel, he almost killed Bran Stark. I'm not saying that Sansa and Arya would ask for his death, but they could ask for him to be striped of lands and titles. And I'm not sure that Jaime will accept that. And Jaime won't accept Cersei's death, that's for sure. 

So she could be like - Tyrion I don't hate you, but I can't let Lannisters be major force anymore. Tyrion could be lord of CR, Jaime exiled, Cersei killed and their child could be Stark's ward, to make sure the Lannisters won't do anything against the Starks. Also, Sansa would want Jon to become king. She could even push for an idea that someone close to Starks takes position of Hand. So Tyrion would be removed.

Maybe Tryion will see it is just game of thrones after all, the Stark will always be enemies. 

3 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Jon and Dany not being there and the inconsistency with BoatSexBaby's spumors makes me doubt that Friki's leaks are indeed "facts." 

There is no reason to trust BSB more than Friki. He is proven leaker and she is someone completely new. 

[nikma]

Daniel Abraham, the guy who's adapting ASOIAF into graphic novels, said this in an interview from 2011.

"I’ve spoken to George a lot in the process.  The biggest issues we have are continuity questions.  There are things about this story that only he knows, and they aren’t all obvious.  There was one scene I had to rework because there’s a particular line of dialog – and you wouldn’t know it to look at – that’s important in the last scene of “A Dream of Spring.”

And Anne Groell, George's editor, revealed in a Q&A that Abraham knows Tyrion's ending.

 

"I never bet against my own family",

Edited September 15, 2018 by nikma

[Eyes High]

11 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Jon and Dany not being there and the inconsistency with BoatSexBaby's spumors makes me doubt that Friki's leaks are indeed "facts."  Why doesn't Friki know where Jon and Dany are? This would be the first question that I would ask if someone told me that Tyrion betrayed them and was put on trial.

There's no reason for Jon and Dany to be absent from the trial unless they are dead, which they may very well be. Frikidoctor is assuming that GRRM wouldn't kill off all three when he speculates that Jon and Dany must be alive, but if Tyrion is fair game, Jon and Dany most certainly are as well. 

(One of the ASOIAF BNFs believes that Jon, Dany and Tyrion will all die saving the world. They may be right about the "all dying" part, even if the details are fuzzy.)

Quote

Daniel Abraham, the guy who's adapting ASOIAF into graphic novels, said this in an interview from 2011.

"I’ve spoken to George a lot in the process.  The biggest issues we have are continuity questions.  There are things about this story that only he knows, and they aren’t all obvious.  There was one scene I had to rework because there’s a particular line of dialog – and you wouldn’t know it to look at – that’s important in the last scene of “A Dream of Spring.”

And Anne Groell, George's editor, revealed in a Q&A that Abraham knows Tyrion's ending.

If indeed these two facts are indeed related, and there's no reason to assume that, then that means that Tyrion makes it to the very last scene of ADOS, which would rather suggest that he lives, wouldn't it?

Edited September 15, 2018 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

[WindyNights]

2 minutes ago, nikma said:

Daniel Abraham, the guy who's adapting ASOIAF into graphic novels, said this in an interview from 2011.

"I’ve spoken to George a lot in the process.  The biggest issues we have are continuity questions.  There are things about this story that only he knows, and they aren’t all obvious.  There was one scene I had to rework because there’s a particular line of dialog – and you wouldn’t know it to look at – that’s important in the last scene of “A Dream of Spring.”

And Anne Groell, George's editor, revealed in a Q&A that Abraham knows Tyrion's ending.

 

"I never bet against my own family",

That line doesn't really line up with Tyrion's motivation in the books where he's literally trying to tear everything down including his own family.

[nikma]

2 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

That line doesn't really line up with Tyrion's motivation in the books where he's literally trying to tear everything down including his own family.

In Book 5. And this will happen in Book 7 or 8. 

6 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

If indeed these two facts are indeed related, and there's no reason to assume that, then that means that Tyrion makes it to the very last scene of ADOS, which would rather suggest that he lives, wouldn't it?

No. He can die then.  In  the show it seems this will be one of the last scenes. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by nikma

[Happy Harpy]

25 minutes ago, nikma said:

It obvious betrayal will happen while they are all alive.

 

Friki never said that. He just said that this is what Tyrion says about people of KL. 

Nothing is obvious. Cersei was supposed to miscarry in 7x07, she's more likely to miscarry early in the season (long time jumps in S8,+ Cersei not pregnant in scenes filmed in Dubrovnik). According to  Friki doctor, and more importantly by onset reports, Jaime should be dead by 8x04.

If Tyrion says people from KL deserve whatever shit is happening to them, it doesn't mean he wishes them well, does it? It's them he hates, and yet he betrays the Starks (and Dany, who isn't from KL either.

21 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

What confuses me is what exactly is Tyrion expecting.Like he's aware the NK and his army are coming to kill everyone,it's not going to matter who is on the throne.Jon and Dany are their absolute best chance because they have the resources to even put up a fight.So what would be his endgame to betraying them in those circumstances is what doesn't make sense to me.I guess he could have made a deal with Cersei that they let them deal with it and them kill them if they win but that's really straight up villain stuff and pretty risky as well.

 

Tyrion could always see the big picture. In Meereen, he saw too much of the big picture, actually. And after seeing a wight, after he knows the NK is able to take down the biggest weapon of mass destruction on the planet, he'd be as stoopid and crazy as Cersei and ignore the threat?

9 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

There's no reason for Jon and Dany to be absent from the trial unless they are dead, which they may very well be.

There are as many reasons for them to not be at the trial as there were for Kit and Emilia not filming in Seville. This video changes absolutely nothing.

Aaand another video? Here we are with the regular pattern. Sigh. It was fun while it lasted.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[OhOkayWhat]

Well, the new "spoilers" don't make sense. So I really doubting about them now. It contradicts almost all the narrative of Tyrion until this point.

And D&D (mostly) have been consistent with their own characters.

Also, we do know specific words of Tyrion defense(?) without knowing the whole context of the "betrayal" first now? Weird.

[nikma]

BoatsexBaby about the unknown new character in Dragonpit.

 

Quote

I think I have an idea on who the actor might be. I have no info on the character he played or what his job on GoT was. His name is Toby Osmond. He was hanging out with the stand-ins and Lino in Seville, and attended the GoT wrap party on June 30th in Belfast. I had told u/EveryFckngChicken about him a month or so back when he asked about the unidentified guy in the Seville pics.

[GrailKing]

34 minutes ago, whateverdgaf said:

Although I have my doubts about the Tyrion stuff, all I can think about how it looks like Brienne is still stuck playing Sansa's nursemaid. She better dump her after this.

Why?, until Sansa releases her from her vows and assuming both want that, it won't happen until the war is over, until then she's tied to both Sansa and Arya.

[GraceK]

5 minutes ago, nikma said:

think when people don't like something they don't want to think out of box to see how it could make sense, they just reject it.

I think people are rejecting how it’s being presented, not the idea itself. Tyrion as he has been represented on the show is not a cardboard villain. He is sympathetic, caring and has many layers. He has been kind to Sansa, considerate to Bran since the beginning, in awe of the dragons and even was able to free them of their chains, was not even able to sleep with the prostitute on the show , much less rape her. He very obviously cares about Daenarys and in a private conversation with no need to lie admitted to Cersei that he sees her as a guiding light for a better future. It’s been portrayed very clearly that Cersei and his Father have hated him since he was born and Jaime is the only member of his family that loves him. This Tyrion may not want to murder and rape his sister but I very much doubt he is gonna start murdering Starks and innocent people for “ his family”. It literally flies in the face of everything we have known about him for seven years. That’s what I am rejecting and for you to be like “ You just don’t like what your hearing and Friki is always right!!” Is pretty dismissive because I think most of us on this forum actually give a lot of thought and care about these characters. The idea that out of nowhere seven years of character development is going to be thrown out the window for a “ gotcha” moment that has absolutely no build up and makes no narrative sense is deeply insulting to everyone who has invested time and energy in this show, and that’s what my problem is.

Now, if they handle the betrayal in a way that actually makes sense, I can deal, and there are ways of doing it that don’t involve Tyrion secretly working against Dany for years, or sabotaging her this whole time,  or murdering Sansa for Cersei, or any other stupid shit that makes no sense. And if you think those things DO make sense, maybe your the one that wants to believe something so badly you can’t think outside the box. 

[nikma]

6 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Nothing is obvious. Cersei was supposed to miscarry in 7x07, she's more likely to miscarry early in the season (long time jumps in S8,+ Cersei not pregnant in scenes filmed in Dubrovnik). According to  Friki doctor, and more importantly by onset reports, Jaime should be dead by 8x04.

Yes, but Tyrion and Jaime maybe won't find out about that.

Even if Jaime is dead by 8x04, Tyrion could betray the Starks in the first half of the season.

 

6 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

If Tyrion says people from KL deserve whatever shit is happening to them, it doesn't mean he wishes them well, does it? It's them he hates, and yet he betrays the Starks (and Dany, who isn't from KL either.

So, what's contradictory there? He doesn't like people of KL and he betrays the Starks, I see no problem here. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by nikma

[nikma]

2 minutes ago, GraceK said:

That’s what I am rejecting and for you to be like “ You just don’t like what your hearing and Friki is always right!!” Is pretty dismissive because I think most of us on this forum actually give a lot of thought and care about these characters.

No, I'm just saying you should't blame Friki for the things D&D are doing. He is not writer of the show. 

 

3 minutes ago, GraceK said:

The idea that out of nowhere seven years of character development is going to be thrown out the window for a “ gotcha” moment that has absolutely no build up and makes no narrative sense is deeply insulting to everyone who has invested time and energy in this show, and that’s what my problem is.

Yeah, but that happened with lot of other shows and that's not Friki's fault. People denied Lads2 beacuse they didn't like what he said and didn't believe that he is the same person as Lads. 

If you don't like it blame D&D, not Friki. And if you really think this twist goes against their MO, you are lying to yourself. This is completely their style. 

[WindyNights]

14 minutes ago, nikma said:

In Book 5. And this will happen in Book 7 or 8. 

No. He can die then.  In  the show it seems this will be one of the last scenes. 

The show is leading me to believe that Tyrion isn't getting redemption and his whole motivation is hate. Hell, Book Tyrion wants to be Lord of Casterly Rock. That requires Cersei's death easoscially since he signed a contract to help him take it 

[bubble sparkly]

If Friki is correct and Davos is leading Tyrion’s trial, then I think that suggests Dany and Jon are alive. If Jon dies as a result of Tyrion’s betrayal I don’t see the Starks sitting back and letting Davos run things. Arya in particular would be our for blood.

[nikma]

BoatsexBaby didn't deny Friki's leaks, so narrative that they are contradicting each other failed. Again if you don't like the writing, blame the writers, not the leakers. 

[GraceK]

Just now, nikma said:

No, I'm just saying you should't blame Friki for the things D&D are doing. He is not writer of the show. 

 

Yeah, but that happened with lot of other shows and that's not Friki's fault. People denied Lads2 beacuse they didn't like what he said and didn't believe that he is the same person as Lads. 

If you don't like it blame D&D, not Friki. And if you really think this twist goes against their MO, you are lying to yourself. This is completely their style. 

I’m not blaming Friki. I believe he believes what he’s saying. I just don’t buy it and I’m not drinking the kool aid.  It doesn’t make sense and clearly I’m not the only one who feels this way. And I am blaming D and D completely if this turns out to be true, because it’s deeply, deeply insulting to us as an audience. 

[whateverdgaf]

19 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Why?, until Sansa releases her from her vows and assuming both want that, it won't happen until the war is over, until then she's tied to both Sansa and Arya.

Because Sansa neither needs nor respects Brienne, and Brienne is an heiress in her own right and has her own people and I would like Brienne to have some character progression from where she has been since series 6. As for Sansa releasing her, a big part of Brienne's character has been learning to see the grey in situations, so even if she has made an oath if the person she is serving no longer truly requires her she may decide it is more moral of her to break the oath herself and do something else. And because Brienne deserves better than to work for someone who has no loyalty or affection for her, where her strengths are wasted.  

Edited September 15, 2018 by whateverdgaf

[nikma]

1 minute ago, WindyNights said:

The show is leading me to believe that Tyrion isn't getting redemption and his whole motivation is hate. Hell, Book Tyrion wants to be Lord of Casterly Rock. That requires Cersei's death easoscially since he signed a contract to help him take it 

Yeah, but there are other Lannisters in the books, that don't exist in the show. 

[OhOkayWhat]

5 minutes ago, nikma said:

Yeah, but that happened with lot of other shows and that's not Friki's fault.

But it never happened with this show. At least never with a main character.

[nikma]

Just now, OhOkayWhat said:

But it never happened with this show. At least never with a main character.

And it may not happen. Maybe Tyrion's betrayal is written in a way that makes sense. But nothing from these leaks goes against D&D's MO, in my opinion. 

And if you watch S7 with this knowledge it becomes very clear what they were doing.

[GraceK]

[nikma]

12 minutes ago, GraceK said:

And I am blaming D and D completely if this turns out to be true, because it’s deeply, deeply insulting to us as an audience. 

Some book readers will say  welcome to the club LOL. Some fans were deeply insulted  as an audience since S1. Your time has come. 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Translation from live vid in Spanish: *Sansa, Arya, Bran, Sam, Brienne, Davos, Robin Arryn and 2 new characters (a guy who has beard and is unknown to him and another guy with a golden armour, probably Harry Strickland

BSB said it was Toby Osmond and he has beard! 

Edited September 15, 2018 by nikma

[bubble sparkly]

Yes I am curious as to exactly what Tyrion’s betrayal entails. Is he just flat out trying to kill team D/J so Lannisters can continue to rule. Does he only want to ensure the survival of Cersei’s kid?

Or is it perhaps a battle decision kind of thing with his “they deserved it” comments? Will Tyrion arrange to blow up KL with wildfire to kill the AOTD, which also kills the millions of KL inhabitants?

[GraceK]

13 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

Or is it perhaps a battle decision kind of thing with his “they deserved it” comments? Will Tyrion arrange to blow up KL with wildfire to kill the AOTD, which also kills the millions of KL inhabitants?

This is what I mean. Tyrion in the books had very clear motivations for his Downward spiral into villainy. We can see where it could be heading. 

If they wanted to do this in the show, they had a very clear set up when he hooked up with Dany as well. If he wanted revenge on KL for how they all turned on him during his trial in season 4, it would have been awesome to see him as a dark advisor to her in season 5,6 and 7, advocating for  her to rain fire in KL and depose his sister.  Instead they made him a total pacist peace keeper who wanted to spare as many lives as possible and was so turned off by the burning of the Tarlys and and we are expected to believe that at the very last second is when he wants to kill everyone??? Sure. Hey maybe Arya wants to marry Jaime!! ? 

Edited September 15, 2018 by GraceK

[Meredith Quill]

If this Tyrion stuff turns out to be correct, I believe he must have turned his cloak after his meeting with Cersei and discovering her pregnancy. It always struck me as odd that he never defended himself against Cersei's twisted rationale of blaming him for the deaths of Tommen & Myrcella. He was particularly earnest when he spoke of them in that convo and even seemingly agreed "I'm most sorry for the children, I loved them, you know I did". This has me thinking that to some extent Cersei's words struck a raw nerve in terms of self-recrimination. All that in mind, it would be conceivable that he feels some sort of need to protect her unborn child as a kind of atonement. 

They deliberately never showed us what he said to supposedly convince Cersei to relent. Perhaps his betrayal is that he knew she had no intention of keeping her word all along and made a promise to help her (and thus her child) survive/win? Hence the foreboding look he had when he saw Jon & Dany get together in Ep7.

I find it hard to believe he would kill anyone but I could believe him giving misinformation or informing on the Starks/Targs alliance etc which results in the death of others.

There's no context for the "They deserved it" quote, so no real way of knowing for sure who he's supposedly referring to, it could be the Tyrells or even Ellaria & the Sandsnakes for all we know. 

[nikma]

Funny thing is that "I never bet against my family"  line was never in the show, but D&D already had these scenes when they pretend something from the books happened in the show. So as I said, completely their MO.

[GraceK]

2 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

 

If this Tyrion stuff turns out to be correct, I believe he must have turned his cloak after his meeting with Cersei and discovering her pregnancy. It always struck me as odd that he never defended himself against Cersei's twisted rationale of blaming him for the deaths of Tommen & Myrcella. He was particularly earnest when he spoke of them in that convo and even seemingly agreed "I'm most sorry for the children, I loved them, you know I did". This has me thinking that to some extent Cersei's words struck a raw nerve in terms of self-recrimination. All that in mind, it would be conceivable that he feels some sort of need to protect her unborn child as a kind of atonement. 

They deliberately never showed us what he said to supposedly convince Cersei to relent. Perhaps his betrayal is that he knew she had no intention of keeping her word all along and made a promise to help her (and thus her child) survive/win? Hence the foreboding look he had when he saw Jon & Dany get together in Ep7.

I find it hard to believe he would kill anyone but I could believe him giving misinformation or informing on the Starks/Targs alliance etc which results in the death of others.

There's no context for the "They deserved it" quote, so no real way of knowing for sure who he's supposedly referring to, it could be the Tyrells or even Ellaria & the Sandsnakes for all we know. 

 

This I could believe. I never trusted that they cut away from that scene when he said “ your pregnant “. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by GraceK

[GrailKing]

19 minutes ago, whateverdgaf said:

Because Sansa neither needs nor respects Brienne, and Brienne is an heiress in her own right and has her own people and I would like Brienne to have some character progression from where she has been since series 6. As for Sansa releasing her, a big part of Brienne's character has been learning to see the grey in situations, so even if she has made an oath if the person she is serving no longer truly requires her she may decide it is more moral of her to break the oath herself and do something else. And because Brienne deserves better than to work for someone who has no loyalty or affection for her, where her strengths are wasted.  

Brienne's not going to break her oath, she may ask to be released from it, but she's not going to break it.

Brienne herself rejected the lady motif, that's on her, those were her decisions. 

The bit about no loyalty to Brienne is BS, Sansa saved her twice, in the inn and removing her from LF's playbook.

Where were you in S4 and 5 when NOBLE Brienne was all pity and poor me as she totally berated and ridiculed Podrick?

Brienne argues  a request, and Sansa frames  it as a order and doesn't want to be treated as a child and you go ballistic?

Sansa one scene with Brienne as snark, Brienne with Pod um 10 scenes and she the best thing since bread.

When the time comes, she will or will not request release of her vows, and I don't see why Sansa wouldn't do it.

33 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

The show is leading me to believe that Tyrion isn't getting redemption and his whole motivation is hate. Hell, Book Tyrion wants to be Lord of Casterly Rock. That requires Cersei's death easoscially since he signed a contract to help him take it 

Show Tyrion also wants CR, as he mentioned a few times to his father.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

There's a contradiction in the spoilers, too. Tyrion betrays "the Starks", from the North, partly because he hates people from KL?

Maybe it's more because he feels Sansa left him holding the bag, neither of them knew what was going on and were used; maybe this time he tries to get close to her and she flat out rejects him because she and Arya finds out Cersei lied.

Maybe Arya, Sansa and Bran discuss the lost Dragon, and the loss of Dorne and Tyrells ( I want to know how Euron knew exactly where they were ) that seemed a bit questionable.

Everyone's a mess because we have no context until next year.

[Eyes High]

49 minutes ago, nikma said:

BoatsexBaby didn't deny Friki's leaks, so narrative that they are contradicting each other failed. Again if you don't like the writing, blame the writers, not the leakers. 

/BoatsexBaby is playing coy. They're now claiming that the only thing they know about the Dragonpit sequence is that it will blow everyone's mind and it was part of the first part of 8x06, the epic KL battle finale, and not the "dream of spring" epilogue. However, there are some problems with this:

1. /BoatsexBaby, when asked about the Dragonpit sequence over a month ago, said "The Dragonpit sequence is part of the KL battle in Episode 6, is a very vfx-heavy sequence and is apparently going to 'blow everyone's mind'." Frikidoctor's source claimed there are no VFX involved in Tyrion's trial: it's just dialogue. And of course /BoatsexBaby has conveniently forgotten about the "vfx-heavy" side of things.

2. /BoatsexBaby also implied multiple times that Peter and Sophie's stand-ins/doubles were present in Seville because they were involved in an action scene. 

3. /BoatsexBaby, months ago, said this: "I was told that the Spain filming was for KL battle and would involve Unsullied and Wildling/Dothraki extras among others. Part of this battle has already been shot in Belfast in front of the green screen." The only Spain filming was in Seville, though.

4. When /BoatsexBaby was reminded of (3), they claimed that multiple scenes could have been filmed in Seville of which the Italica amphitheatre was only one, since they locked down the entire Italica site for filming. We know of course that the actors were only filming for four days (Thursday, Friday, Monday, Tuesday), and that a certain group of actors were filming for all four days. I call bullshit.

5. /BoatsexBaby said this as well: "The only info I ever gave about the Dragonpit was that the sequence will 'blow everyone's mind' which it will. Irrespective of whether it is what Friki leaked or something else. :)"

6. And of course, this: "Haha! Bittersweet. Even if I knew with 100% certainty (which I don't) that the dragonpit sequence is not Tyrion's trial, I wouldn't say a word. That is how much fun I am having right now." (When called on the obvious implication, that /BoatsexBaby knows but not with 100% certainty that the Dragonpit sequence is not Tyrion's trial, /BoatsexBaby said "Haha! I didn't say that." Riiiiight.)

Bottom line: I think /BoatsexBaby knows these leaks are bullshit but is politely playing along, even to the point of suggesting possible identities for the actors supposedly present in the scene.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Eyes High

[nikma]

6 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

think /BoatsexBaby knows these leaks are bullshit but is politely playing along, even to the point of suggesting possible identities for the actors supposedly present in the scene.

Or she is just fake which is far more likely.

[WindyNights]

56 minutes ago, nikma said:

Yeah, but there are other Lannisters in the books, that don't exist in the show. 

They won't be alive by the time Tyrion gets back.

 

A mix of Red Wedding 2.0 and Faegon's Conquest.

[nikma]

Just now, WindyNights said:

They won't be alive by the time Tyrion gets back.

 

A mix of Red Wedding 2.0 and Faegon's Conquest.

We don't know that.

[shireenbamfatheon]

Tyrion's "they deserved it" means that the people of King's Landing have suffered greatly, but for show!Tyrion to get to the point where he doesn't even care about the deaths of possibly hundreds of thousands of innocent people, something major must have gone down beforehand. He just comes across as bitter in the leaks, which doesn't really mesh well with the theory that he's been betraying Dany for some time now, because he seems smart enough to understand the consequences of a betrayal. It's not much to go on but the vibe I'm getting is that he's still going into this betrayal well-intentioned, or might not even see it as such, which is why he's reacting so passionately. 


If these spoilers are true, and I'm still on the fence, I can see why everyone's described the season as polarizing because it's definitely going to piss people off. Tyrion, Jon AND Dany dying? Possibly at the hands of each other? Ooh boy. I'm not looking forward hundreds of people quoting Ramsay.

[Leila6]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

There's no reason for Jon and Dany to be absent from the trial unless they are dead, which they may very well be.

Off the top of my head:

 

• They want the trial to be as fair (or at least appear as fair) as possible, so they stay away to avoid their presence swaying the verdict.
• It’s too emotionally painful, and they are not needed to give evidence.
• Dany is giving birth.
• Jon and/or Dany are recovering from a serious injury and cannot attend.
• Something is going on with the dragons that only they can take care of.
• As part of their new system of governance, they’ve decided to set up a separate legal branch of the government, of which the crown takes no part.

I’m not saying it definitely is one of these options, but there are plenty of possibilities that preclude concluding Jon and Dany must be dead.

[WindyNights]

1 minute ago, Leila6 said:

Off the top of my head:

 

• They want the trial to be as fair (or at least appear as fair) as possible, so they stay away to avoid their presence swaying the verdict.
• It’s too emotionally painful, and they are not needed to give evidence.
• Dany is giving birth.
• Jon and/or Dany are recovering from a serious injury and cannot attend.
• Something is going on with the dragons that only they can take care of.
• As part of their new system of governance, they’ve decided to set up a separate legal branch of the government, of which the crown takes no part.

I’m not saying it definitely is one of these options, but there are plenty of possibilities that preclude concluding Jon and Dany must be dead.

Why wouldn't it be fair with them there? 

[GrailKing]

2 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Why wouldn't it be fair with them there? 

Perhaps, something to do with DP last year, would make them less than impartial?

Also  a person in gold armor will also be there ( think that's what he said ) JC may have info against Tyrion.

We just don't know.