Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[SeanC]

59 minutes ago, OhOkayWhat said:

We have Davos.

Davos had decades to get where he was.  I’m not arguing that a person couldn’t start where Gendry was in Season 1 and become kingly material, just that that isn’t the story that has been told with him.

Edited May 16, 2018 by SeanC

[Edith]

10 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

As for whether Kit may still be in Seville? Nothing is 100% confirmed until Kit is spotted in another country, I think. Seville folks are saying everyone left, though, and Kit was spotted with his suitcases leaving the hotel.

Peter at least has left Seville. He was seen at the airport.

Quote

BoatsexBaby

Is the Spain shoot really over though? ? I am going to wait a few more days to see if things get more clear coz this whole thing has been one huge mess. The only things I am 100% positive about is the presence of the stand-in/body doubles at Italica, the Wrap party on Saturday and Sweetrobin channeling his inner Lit at a bar last night coz I have pics for all three. They will be shared soon.

 

Javi doesn't think everybody left. 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Edith

[Eyes High]

4 minutes ago, Edith said:

Javi doesn't think everybody left. 

Mariabazn_’s airport source said everybody did. So I guess it boils down to who has better information.

[GrailKing]

[Happy Harpy]

Jon and Dany leaving for Essos or elsewhere with their child, to live the simple life they both always wanted, would be my favorite ending for them. I don't believe they're dead. I don't think that GRRM changed the endgame of the OG five that much. Some missing characters (Missandei, for one) could be gone with them. Bittersweet, because they're away from some people they love and the surviving Starks are never ever getting back together.

I'm surprised that Sweetrobin is back, I really thought he was done with. Weird that Edmure wasn't there. Maybe the Riverlands will once more take the brunt of the war (against the dead) and the Tullys be definitely wiped out.

No Meera. I had a last hope she might be seen somewhere.

I was joking with King Gendry and Queen Arya, but it would be so ironic and poetic at once. Much ado about nothing, with the Baratheons ruling in the beginning and in the end of the story. A Stark/Baratheon failed alliance was the trigger of everything, the story ends with a Baratheon/Stark love match on the throne. Davos, Tyrion, Varys in their council? Solid. Aside from Arya as Queen, which isn't what I'd want for her, it's almost too good to be true. And I agree that Gendry's storyline didn't seem to lead there. So I'll need hard proof to believe it, LOL.

Imagine the dialogue, though:

Sansa *smirks*: Do I have to call you "Your Grace" now?

Arya *rolls eyes*: Yes. Crap.

At least the Tyrion betrayal crap theory seems to be put to rest.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[MrsR]

Quote

Do we know if the actors who play Tormund and Beric filmed at all this season? Now I am wondering if they were crushed and killed when The Wall came down.

Richard Dormer who plays Beric actually lives in Belfast so there would be no sightings of him at the hotels. Conleth also lives in Belfast so there would be precious few sightings of him as well.

 

Liam lives an hour away in the Republic so no sightings of him wouldn't mean anything either.

[WindyNights]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

If Martin kills off his two leading protagonists who are qualified to sit on the Iron Throne, then he doesn't care. All his "themes" were basically bullshit. Again, it explains why he can't write the final book.

 

Neither Jon nor Daeneys are the best qualified to sit a throne in the books. That's a show-only thing. They're a couple of teenagers that are competent but by no means that extraordinary.

Besides whoever wins the throne isn't about who is best qualified. It's a mix of support, who is left and who is mightier.

Was Henry Tudor a better ruler than Richard III? Was Robert a better ruler than Rhaegar?

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Yes, he could have good advisors, but still, one of the ongoing themes is that the qualities of the king himself matters quite a lot.  Gendry has in no way been prepared by the narrative to take the throne, so ending with him being crowned would essentially be a “good man must needs be a good king” situation, exactly the kind of thinking previously argued against.

Only if the series tells us that Gendry would make a good king.

I don't believe that Gendry would be a good king. The series would end with a mediocre king on the throne with competent advisors.

[OhOkayWhat]

39 minutes ago, SeanC said:

...just that that isn’t the story that has been told with him.

Agree with you about this. It's just I see much more chances on King Gendry (10%) than Queen Arya married with king Gendry (1%). Queen Arya does not make any sense within her narrative. Or getting married if the epilogue does not jump several years into the future.

[WindyNights]

I don't believe GRRM would make Gendry the king in the books. Book Gendry is very much just Neo-Stannis complete with following R'hllor and bad-tempered. Not to mention illiterate and coarse.

But if the show does end with Gendry on the throne then it's probably Edric Storm that gets the throne.

2 minutes ago, OhOkayWhat said:

Agree with you about this. It's just I see much more chances on King Gendry (10%) than Queen Arya married with king Gendry (1%). Queen Arya does not make any sense within her narrative. Or getting married if the epilogue does not jump several years into the future.

Queen Sansa and King Gendry?

Sansa was supposed to be married to a Baratheon and have his baby in the outline.

[Eyes High]

21 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

I don't believe that Gendry would be a good king. The series would end with a mediocre king on the throne

If so, the series would end the way it started. Full circle, baby!

Javi says there was activity at Italica today. Someone on the Thronesnews IG comment section said that Kit and Gemma stayed behind and everyone else left. On the other hand, Kit was spotted this morning leaving the hotel with the rest of the bunch headed to the airport, and Mariabazn_'s airport source claims that everyone has indeed left, so who knows?

Thronesnews posted earlier a list of actors whom fans had seen leave Seville: Peter, John, Isaac, Gwen, Maisie, Joe, Sophie, and Kit. 

/BoatsexBaby promised to post pictures she took of the stand-ins/doubles leaving Italica on Thursday, but we may have to wait until after Friday for them.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Eyes High

[GraceK]

I’m starting to get depressed. Seriously what was the point then of a seven season build up to Aegon Targaryen? For this massive story arc of all this world building only for it to basically reset at the end? I’m genuinely curious? Is it supposed to be ironic? 

[Eyes High]

30 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Queen Sansa and King Gendry?

You look at spoilers indicating Tyrion, Sansa, Arya, and Gendry are filming scenes together for 8x06 and your conclusion is that Sansa's going to end up with Gendry? Seriously?

Edited May 16, 2018 by Eyes High

[MrsR]

So Seville and the sheer number of cast members suggests one of three things.

Coronation

Wedding

Funeral

 

Take your pick.

 

As for the succession, I think that the most likely candidate is the one we haven't met.

 

That wasn't just boat sex, that was Chekov's Boat Sex. 

 

There's a pregnancy.  Guaranteed. The sex scene was juxtaposed with dialogue discussing the true succession. Not an accident.

So the succession would go, 

Jon 

Baby

Dany.

Forget the bastard element. Jon was considered the King of the North despite being a bastard. No reason to believe the same people who celebrated his ascendancy in the North would eliminate his child for bastardy. Especially if he saves the human race.

 

The only way Dany sits on any throne is because she's holding a child in her lap. She'll be a Queen, but only a Queen regent.

 

Therefore, I think Seville, is Jon's funeral.

Edited May 16, 2018 by MrsR

[WindyNights]

12 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I’m starting to get depressed. Seriously what was the point then of a seven season build up to Aegon Targaryen? For this massive story arc of all this world building only for it to basically reset at the end? I’m genuinely curious? Is it supposed to be ironic? 

Imma quote goodqueenaly(if you're right and Jon doesn't become king):

 

Anonymous asked: 

Hi! What do you think is the point of the whole R+L=J revelation (aside Jon's feelings)? Given that being a Targaryen is not necessary in order to ride a dragon I don't think it will change anything. Thank you! 

-------

goodqueenaly answered:

Thanks for the question, Anon.

Well, if the only point of Jon’s arc was to ride a dragon, no, it wouldn’t change anything. But surely that’s not all there is to Jon, right?

Number one I think, a careful distinction needs to be drawn. Jon isn’t a Targaryen. Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. There’s a key difference there. Jon won’t do what he does heroically because he’s a Targaryen and only Targaryens can be heroes, that’s silly. Hell, I doubt if, by the end of the story, more than a handful of characters are even aware Jon was the son of Rhaegar. His story is not a House Targaryen story (in contrast to that of Daenerys, which is very very much a Targaryen story): he’s not going to claim the Iron Throne, he’s not going to rule the Seven Kingdoms, he’s not going to fly with a dragon banner fluttering beside him and his breastplate decorated with a ruby three-headed dragon.

He is, however, a child of prophecy, and that’s my second point. Jon is an in-your-face classic hero, right - the one who starts as a down-on-his-luck boy, roses in this ancient institution, and becomes an obvious leader against a major supernatural threat. He’s pointedly and immediately sympathetic from the first. So obviously, a good classic hero needs this miraculous birth story, right (something something gods and wonders always appear), and he has one! Rhaegar, the lost silver prince, last Prince of Dragonstone, handsome and chivalric, this guy who was apparently great at everything; Lyanna Stark, beautiful and brave, willing to stand up for the defenseless, a scion of that most cherished family, House Stark. 

But then you realize - Jon doesn’t get a power-up from that parentage. Instead, everything is totally fucked up about that. Rhaegar broke every chivalric and dynastic code by absconding with Lyanna - daughter of the Lord Paramount of the North, sister of his future Lord of Winterfell, the betrothed of his Lord Paramount of the Stormlands. Given his melancholic personality, I don’t think he ever really loved her; rather, he needed a mother for his third head, and saw that she fit his prophetic designs. I tend to doubt whether Lyanna was actually happy in the tower of joy; she might have been pleased to run away with the handsome crown prince as though her life was a daring song, but would she really have been happy living for several weeks and months after with a gloomy man, in a faraway lonely little keep in Dorne, never again seeing her beloved brothers? That’s really sad.

So instead of being the ideal prince, the son of the great Rhaegar and the lovely Lyanna, Jon is the prophecy-conceived child of a prophecy-obsessed prince who was willing to throw his realm into war to fulfill what he thought was necessary and his captive teenage vessel. Jon only exists because Rhaegar thought his conception would fulfill a prophetic vision (much in the same way Rhaegar himself was conceived). It’s glorious and horrible all at once: sure, Stark and Targaryen blood make a potent combo, but fuck man, you got it in the worst possible way. Poor Jon has lived his life in a crisis of identity, and now he finally gets the answer to his biggest personal question: his father is the man whose actions led to the death of Rickard and Brandon and was the villain of the popular telling of Robert’s Rebellion, his mother was the woman that prince ran away with, about whom his adoptive father rarely talked because the memory of her made him so sad, and his adoptive father spent his entire marriage hiding the truth of Jon’s parentage from his beloved wife because he couldn’t risk his best friend murdering baby Jon for the accident of his birth. 

Poor Jon. He’s going to be devastated by that news. And that revelation is going to become a question for the remainder of his arc - am I a hero because I choose to be a hero, or because I was destined to be a hero from before I was born? And that’s the question of ASOIAF, isn’t it? So much of the story is hammering in that being a hero isn’t this glorious destiny for a chosen few. Being a hero sucks. And it’s hard. And you do it even though you might never get recognized for doing it. 

So I don’t see R+L=J as a plot device, per se; rather, it’s, as @poorquentyn says, is the ultimate expression of that theme. It’s a way to demonstrate that heart in conflict, the key axis of GRRM’s story. Are you defined by what came before you, or are you what you choose to be? Are you the hero because it’s been foretold you would be the hero and you’re just another gear in the machine of prophecy, or are you someone who chooses to act in the hope of spring against the cold and darkness of winter? Or, alternately, are you able to escape what came before you, or are you bound to repeat the madness and blunders of those who came before you? Are all people, as Tyrion thinks, “puppets dancing on the strings of those who came before us”, or are we our own characters with destinies we make for ourselves - good or ill?

------

I doubt the show will get through what Jon's parentage means because they're rushing to the end though.

4 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

You look at spoilers indicating Tyrion, Sansa, Arya, and Gendry are filming scenes together for 8x06 and your conclusion is that Sansa's going to end up with Gendry? Seriously?

Well, I'm suggesting it as an alternative to Queen Arya since the poster I responded to believes Gendry ruling alone is more likely than Gendry and Arya ruling together.

If it ends with King Gendry then I'm 50/50 on which Stark girl marries him. Arya had the connection to Gendry but a King Gendry ending means that it's likely Edric as king in the books not Gendry and Edric could marry either Stark girl.

Then again, Book Jaime does make a suggestion that Sansa marry a blacksmith so....it's not impossible.

[Sunshinegal]

Just now, MrsR said:

So Seville and the sheer number of cast members suggests one of three things.

Coronation

Wedding

Funeral

 

Take your pick.

 

As for the succession, I think that the most likely candidate is the one we haven't met.

 

That wasn't just boat sex, that was Chekov's Boat Sex. 

 

There's a pregnancy.  Guaranteed. The sex scene was juxtaposed with dialogue discussing the true succession. Not an accident.

So the succession would go, 

Jon 

Baby

Dany.

Forget the bastard element. Jon was considered the King of the North despite being a bastard. No reason to believe the same people who celebrated his ascendancy in the North would eliminate his child for bastardy. Especially if he saves the human race.

 

The only way Dany sits on any throne is because she's holding a child in her lap. She'll be a Queen, but only a Queen regent.

 

Therefore I think Seville, is Jon's funeral.

I also think that it might be Jon's funeral.  But Dany is not there which would seem suspicious.  My guess is that she is giving birth to baby Targ at the moment of the funeral and Gilly and Missandei are helping her.  It seems to me to also explain Gilly and Missandei not being there. 

[WindyNights]

5 minutes ago, Sunshinegal said:

I also think that it might be Jon's funeral.  But Dany is not there which would seem suspicious.  My guess is that she is giving birth to baby Targ at the moment of the funeral and Gilly and Missandei are helping her.  It seems to me to also explain Gilly and Missandei not being there. 

Personally, I think there's a high chance that Jon lives through the series and beyond. Completely broken as a person. The Frodo ending.

His future imo is Balerion the Black Cat. Foul-tempered, mean and older than sin.

 

(Dany and the baby probably die at some point. And if you believe in the Nissa Nissa theory, it's Jon that does it.)

[GraceK]

Isn’t there a Kings Landing Set in Belfast? There is still shooting going  on there, and Emilia and Kit haven’t finished yet. The Dragonpit scenes may be finished but that doesn’t mean that’s the end of the show. I think we are jumping the gun here. I’m still holding on to hope. And I certainly don’t think Dany gets pregnant just for her baby to die. That’s just morbid.

Edited May 16, 2018 by GraceK

[hmm]

3 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Imma quote goodqueenaly(if you're right and Jon doesn't become king):

 

Anonymous asked: 

Hi! What do you think is the point of the whole R+L=J revelation (aside Jon's feelings)? Given that being a Targaryen is not necessary in order to ride a dragon I don't think it will change anything. Thank you! 

-------

goodqueenaly answered:

Thanks for the question, Anon.

Well, if the only point of Jon’s arc was to ride a dragon, no, it wouldn’t change anything. But surely that’s not all there is to Jon, right?

Number one I think, a careful distinction needs to be drawn. Jon isn’t a Targaryen. Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. There’s a key difference there. Jon won’t do what he does heroically because he’s a Targaryen and only Targaryens can be heroes, that’s silly. Hell, I doubt if, by the end of the story, more than a handful of characters are even aware Jon was the son of Rhaegar. His story is not a House Targaryen story (in contrast to that of Daenerys, which is very very much a Targaryen story): he’s not going to claim the Iron Throne, he’s not going to rule the Seven Kingdoms, he’s not going to fly with a dragon banner fluttering beside him and his breastplate decorated with a ruby three-headed dragon.

He is, however, a child of prophecy, and that’s my second point. Jon is an in-your-face classic hero, right - the one who starts as a down-on-his-luck boy, roses in this ancient institution, and becomes an obvious leader against a major supernatural threat. He’s pointedly and immediately sympathetic from the first. So obviously, a good classic hero needs this miraculous birth story, right (something something gods and wonders always appear), and he has one! Rhaegar, the lost silver prince, last Prince of Dragonstone, handsome and chivalric, this guy who was apparently great at everything; Lyanna Stark, beautiful and brave, willing to stand up for the defenseless, a scion of that most cherished family, House Stark. 

But then you realize - Jon doesn’t get a power-up from that parentage. Instead, everything is totally fucked up about that. Rhaegar broke every chivalric and dynastic code by absconding with Lyanna - daughter of the Lord Paramount of the North, sister of his future Lord of Winterfell, the betrothed of his Lord Paramount of the Stormlands. Given his melancholic personality, I don’t think he ever really loved her; rather, he needed a mother for his third head, and saw that she fit his prophetic designs. I tend to doubt whether Lyanna was actually happy in the tower of joy; she might have been pleased to run away with the handsome crown prince as though her life was a daring song, but would she really have been happy living for several weeks and months after with a gloomy man, in a faraway lonely little keep in Dorne, never again seeing her beloved brothers? That’s really sad.

So instead of being the ideal prince, the son of the great Rhaegar and the lovely Lyanna, Jon is the prophecy-conceived child of a prophecy-obsessed prince who was willing to throw his realm into war to fulfill what he thought was necessary and his captive teenage vessel. Jon only exists because Rhaegar thought his conception would fulfill a prophetic vision (much in the same way Rhaegar himself was conceived). It’s glorious and horrible all at once: sure, Stark and Targaryen blood make a potent combo, but fuck man, you got it in the worst possible way. Poor Jon has lived his life in a crisis of identity, and now he finally gets the answer to his biggest personal question: his father is the man whose actions led to the death of Rickard and Brandon and was the villain of the popular telling of Robert’s Rebellion, his mother was the woman that prince ran away with, about whom his adoptive father rarely talked because the memory of her made him so sad, and his adoptive father spent his entire marriage hiding the truth of Jon’s parentage from his beloved wife because he couldn’t risk his best friend murdering baby Jon for the accident of his birth. 

Poor Jon. He’s going to be devastated by that news. And that revelation is going to become a question for the remainder of his arc - am I a hero because I choose to be a hero, or because I was destined to be a hero from before I was born? And that’s the question of ASOIAF, isn’t it? So much of the story is hammering in that being a hero isn’t this glorious destiny for a chosen few. Being a hero sucks. And it’s hard. And you do it even though you might never get recognized for doing it. 

So I don’t see R+L=J as a plot device, per se; rather, it’s, as @poorquentyn says, is the ultimate expression of that theme. It’s a way to demonstrate that heart in conflict, the key axis of GRRM’s story. Are you defined by what came before you, or are you what you choose to be? Are you the hero because it’s been foretold you would be the hero and you’re just another gear in the machine of prophecy, or are you someone who chooses to act in the hope of spring against the cold and darkness of winter? Or, alternately, are you able to escape what came before you, or are you bound to repeat the madness and blunders of those who came before you? Are all people, as Tyrion thinks, “puppets dancing on the strings of those who came before us”, or are we our own characters with destinies we make for ourselves - good or ill?

------

I doubt the show will get through what Jon's parentage means because they're rushing to the end though.

Well, I'm suggesting it as an alternative to Queen Arya since the poster I responded to believes Gendry ruling alone is more likely than Gendry and Arya ruling together.

If it ends with King Gendry then I'm 50/50 on which Stark girl marries him. Arya had the connection to Gendry but a King Gendry ending means that it's likely Edric as king in the books not Gendry and Edric could marry either Stark girl.

Then again, Book Jaime does make a suggestion that Sansa marry a blacksmith so....it's not impossible.

That's a neat analysis. Unfortunately, I believe season seven will be too rushed for them to fully explore the psychological ramifications the discovery of Jon's parentage will have on him. It's curious that they couldn't have Jon discover it before meeting Daenerys. 

 

4 hours ago, WindyNights said:

 

Neither Jon norDaeneys are the best qualified to sit a throne in the books. hat's a show-only thing. 

 

I don't think either character is very qualified to rule Westeros in the show either, and if we're supposed to believe so then they have done a poor job at showing us the why of it. I'm reminded of Jon almost causing his own death at the hands of the wildlings when he told them he'd killed Mance because he couldn't muster up an additional sentence explaining the situation until Tormund stepped in. And Jon once again bungling it with the wildlings until Tormund, once again, stepped in and convinced them to help Jon fight Ramsay. Rinse and repeat with Davos during the meeting with Lyanna. Or his complete radio silence in the latest season where he was absent for months and went on a life-threatening mission without informing his family and people of his whereabouts. And Dany, well, hopefully, someone questioning her methods and actions every single season since season three and her complete ineptitude for administration and anything that isn't burning people and infrastructure is building up to something, because I have no idea what we're supposed to make of those scenes. Personally, after the disaster beyond the Wall, where Jon and Dany practically gave the Night King a dragon and the ability to cross the Wall, if those two as leaders is the best Westeros can do, then it's doomed.

Edited May 16, 2018 by hmm

[Eyes High]

32 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Imma quote goodqueenaly(if you're right and Jon doesn't become king):

 

Anonymous asked: 

Hi! What do you think is the point of the whole R+L=J revelation (aside Jon's feelings)? Given that being a Targaryen is not necessary in order to ride a dragon I don't think it will change anything. Thank you! 

-------

goodqueenaly answered:

Thanks for the question, Anon.

Well, if the only point of Jon’s arc was to ride a dragon, no, it wouldn’t change anything. But surely that’s not all there is to Jon, right?

Number one I think, a careful distinction needs to be drawn. Jon isn’t a Targaryen. Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. There’s a key difference there. Jon won’t do what he does heroically because he’s a Targaryen and only Targaryens can be heroes, that’s silly. Hell, I doubt if, by the end of the story, more than a handful of characters are even aware Jon was the son of Rhaegar. His story is not a House Targaryen story (in contrast to that of Daenerys, which is very very much a Targaryen story): he’s not going to claim the Iron Throne, he’s not going to rule the Seven Kingdoms, he’s not going to fly with a dragon banner fluttering beside him and his breastplate decorated with a ruby three-headed dragon.

He is, however, a child of prophecy, and that’s my second point. Jon is an in-your-face classic hero, right - the one who starts as a down-on-his-luck boy, roses in this ancient institution, and becomes an obvious leader against a major supernatural threat. He’s pointedly and immediately sympathetic from the first. So obviously, a good classic hero needs this miraculous birth story, right (something something gods and wonders always appear), and he has one! Rhaegar, the lost silver prince, last Prince of Dragonstone, handsome and chivalric, this guy who was apparently great at everything; Lyanna Stark, beautiful and brave, willing to stand up for the defenseless, a scion of that most cherished family, House Stark. 

But then you realize - Jon doesn’t get a power-up from that parentage. Instead, everything is totally fucked up about that. Rhaegar broke every chivalric and dynastic code by absconding with Lyanna - daughter of the Lord Paramount of the North, sister of his future Lord of Winterfell, the betrothed of his Lord Paramount of the Stormlands. Given his melancholic personality, I don’t think he ever really loved her; rather, he needed a mother for his third head, and saw that she fit his prophetic designs. I tend to doubt whether Lyanna was actually happy in the tower of joy; she might have been pleased to run away with the handsome crown prince as though her life was a daring song, but would she really have been happy living for several weeks and months after with a gloomy man, in a faraway lonely little keep in Dorne, never again seeing her beloved brothers? That’s really sad.

So instead of being the ideal prince, the son of the great Rhaegar and the lovely Lyanna, Jon is the prophecy-conceived child of a prophecy-obsessed prince who was willing to throw his realm into war to fulfill what he thought was necessary and his captive teenage vessel. Jon only exists because Rhaegar thought his conception would fulfill a prophetic vision (much in the same way Rhaegar himself was conceived). It’s glorious and horrible all at once: sure, Stark and Targaryen blood make a potent combo, but fuck man, you got it in the worst possible way. Poor Jon has lived his life in a crisis of identity, and now he finally gets the answer to his biggest personal question: his father is the man whose actions led to the death of Rickard and Brandon and was the villain of the popular telling of Robert’s Rebellion, his mother was the woman that prince ran away with, about whom his adoptive father rarely talked because the memory of her made him so sad, and his adoptive father spent his entire marriage hiding the truth of Jon’s parentage from his beloved wife because he couldn’t risk his best friend murdering baby Jon for the accident of his birth. 

Poor Jon. He’s going to be devastated by that news. And that revelation is going to become a question for the remainder of his arc - am I a hero because I choose to be a hero, or because I was destined to be a hero from before I was born? And that’s the question of ASOIAF, isn’t it? So much of the story is hammering in that being a hero isn’t this glorious destiny for a chosen few. Being a hero sucks. And it’s hard. And you do it even though you might never get recognized for doing it. 

So I don’t see R+L=J as a plot device, per se; rather, it’s, as @poorquentyn says, is the ultimate expression of that theme. It’s a way to demonstrate that heart in conflict, the key axis of GRRM’s story. Are you defined by what came before you, or are you what you choose to be? Are you the hero because it’s been foretold you would be the hero and you’re just another gear in the machine of prophecy, or are you someone who chooses to act in the hope of spring against the cold and darkness of winter? Or, alternately, are you able to escape what came before you, or are you bound to repeat the madness and blunders of those who came before you? Are all people, as Tyrion thinks, “puppets dancing on the strings of those who came before us”, or are we our own characters with destinies we make for ourselves - good or ill?

------

I doubt the show will get through what Jon's parentage means because they're rushing to the end though.

Well, I'm suggesting it as an alternative to Queen Arya since the poster I responded to believes Gendry ruling alone is more likely than Gendry and Arya ruling together.

If it ends with King Gendry then I'm 50/50 on which Stark girl marries him. Arya had the connection to Gendry but a King Gendry ending means that it's likely Edric as king in the books not Gendry and Edric could marry either Stark girl.

Then again, Book Jaime does make a suggestion that Sansa marry a blacksmith so....it's not impossible.

How is it 50/50 on which Stark girl he would marry? Why would he marry Sansa when he could marry Arya?

33 minutes ago, MrsR said:

So Seville and the sheer number of cast members suggests one of three things.

Coronation

Wedding

Funeral

 

Take your pick.

 

As for the succession, I think that the most likely candidate is the one we haven't met.

 

That wasn't just boat sex, that was Chekov's Boat Sex. 

 

There's a pregnancy.  Guaranteed. The sex scene was juxtaposed with dialogue discussing the true succession. Not an accident.

So the succession would go, 

Jon 

Baby

Dany.

Forget the bastard element. Jon was considered the King of the North despite being a bastard. No reason to believe the same people who celebrated his ascendancy in the North would eliminate his child for bastardy. Especially if he saves the human race.

 

The only way Dany sits on any throne is because she's holding a child in her lap. She'll be a Queen, but only a Queen regent.

 

Therefore, I think Seville, is Jon's funeral.

If the day shoots are intended to occur during the spring, then I doubt they would wait that long to hold a funeral.

9 minutes ago, Sunshinegal said:

I also think that it might be Jon's funeral.  But Dany is not there which would seem suspicious.  My guess is that she is giving birth to baby Targ at the moment of the funeral and Gilly and Missandei are helping her.  It seems to me to also explain Gilly and Missandei not being there. 

I mean, if a widow giving birth to her beloved late husband’s child isn’t an occasion to postpone a funeral, then what is?

[WindyNights]

10 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Isn’t there a Kings Landing Set in Belfast? There is still shooting going  on there, and Emilia and Kit haven’t finished yet. The Dragonpit scenes may be finished but that doesn’t mean that’s the end of the show. I think we are jumping the gun here. I’m still holding on to hope. And I certainly don’t think Dany gets pregnant just for her baby to die. That’s just morbid.

Isn't that exactly what happened to Talisa and her baby in season 3? Robb impregnates her and then she gets stabbed in the belly over and over again and is killed and then Robb dies right afterwards.

it's like poetry.

[MrsR]

The Paint Hall in Belfast houses all the Kings landing Interiors. And the gates to Kings Landing is also on that site.

The Red Tower exterior is CGI.  

The exteriors of Kings Landing are in Croatia

Edited May 16, 2018 by MrsR

[GraceK]

10 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

sn't that exactly what happened to Talisa and her baby in season 3? Robb impregnates her and then she gets stabbed in the belly over and over again and is killed and then Robb dies right afterwards.

it's like poetry.

GRRM didn’t write that. That was show invention. And if they are truly going to stick with George’s ending, I don’t see him doing that. Anything’s possible, but a bittersweet ending isn’t Dany getting pregnant only to die with her baby. That’s just morbid. And I’m not going to get into a debate with you about it either. If they want to go for just complete nihilism, then yes, Dany dies, her baby dies, Jon is bitter and broken. Yay??

Edited May 16, 2018 by GraceK

[WindyNights]

5 minutes ago, GraceK said:

GRRM didn’t write that. That was show invention. And if they are truly going to stick with George’s ending, I don’t see him doing that. Anything’s possible, but a bittersweet ending isn’t Dany getting pregnant only to die with her baby. That’s just morbid. And I’m not going to get into a debate with you about it either. If they want to go for just complete nihilism, then yes, Dany dies, her baby dies, Jon is bitter and broken. Yay??

Well, that's not nihilistic just sad. Nihilism is the idea that everything is meaningless. Daenerys and Jon still save the world in the end so it wasn't all meaningless. 

And GRRM believes that what makes LOTR's ending powerful is Frodo's sadness and that he didn't personally get anything for his troubles. 

Also I'm not sure that the Talisa pregnancy and her involvement in the RW was entirely the show's invention. GRRM wrote the episode where Talisa announces her pregnancy .

26 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

How is it 50/50 on which Stark girl he would marry? Why would he marry Sansa when he could marry Arya?

Because Gendry is a fusion of two characters. Edric Storm and Book Gendry. He's fulfilling two different roles at once. 

If the book's endgame is King Edric and Queen Sansa then they'll just emulate that with the only Baratheon bastard they have and make it King Gendry and Queen Sansa despite Arya's canon relationship with Gendry.

[GraceK]

7 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Also I'm not sure that the Talisa pregnancy and her involvement in the RW was entirely the show's invention. GRRM wrote the episode where Talisa announces her pregnancy .

It was D and D. George said on the blu ray he was afraid they would be too soft on the red wedding and they were in fact much more brutal than he was. ? 

Edited May 16, 2018 by GraceK

[WindyNights]

1 minute ago, GraceK said:

It was D and D. George said on the blu ray he was afraid they would be too soft on the red wedding and they were in fact much more brutal than he was. ? 

Fair enough.

[Eyes High]

/BoatsexBaby is now saying that Vladimir (NK, stunts) was on set out of makeup for several days. She also correctly noted that Vladimir is pictured in the Unsullied extra group photo (far right), suggesting he was involved in whatever they were filming.

/BoatsexBaby seems to think that what was filmed is a battle, so maybe this scene is from early in 8x06 after all. If so, it may well explain Jon and Dany’s absence.

I’m skeptical, personally, unless the battle is extremely short.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Eyes High

[Happy Harpy]

I was certain that the "Dany dies" BS would replace "Sansa dies" when Emilia Clarke was in Cannes and missing some filming.

For now, I'm looking at the bright side of life. The Jon/Sansa nonsense is seemingly put to rest (Is that why Gendry is forced on the fandom bicycle, again?). And entertaining the ideas of King Gendry, Queen Arya ( in a Mito-Komon way; flanked with The Hound and Brienne) and the Lannistark power couple is finally quite fun while it lasts.

Hey, where's Bronn?

[Edith]

17 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

/BoatsexBaby is now saying that Vladimir (NK, stunts) was on set out of makeup for several days. She also correctly noted that Vladimir is pictured in the Unsullied extra group photo (far right), suggesting he was involved in whatever they were filming.

/BoatsexBaby seems to think that what was filmed is a battle, so maybe this scene is from early in 8x06 after all. If so, it may well explain Jon and Dany’s absence.

I’m skeptical, personally, unless the battle is extremely short.

Quote

 

BoatsexBaby

I agree. I am going to wait till Kit is spotted somewhere else. Unless he was part of the rumored night shoot last night, I don't think he left Seville with the others.

 

So she's not entirely sure that Kit didn't film yesterday. If he was practicing, then he either filmed or is going to.

[Wouter]

On 15-5-2018 at 11:09 PM, Eyes High said:

They filmed all the Meereen fighting pit stuff on a historical site, though.

I'm second-guessing the battle theory now that it seems as if today was the last day in Seville for multiple cast members.

Another thing that's unclear is whether Kit filmed today. He was seen at the pool in the morning.

ETA: /BoatsexBaby says that Kit was doing stunt rehearsals today with Jacob (Grey Worm).

...You know, I was thinking:

1. If there has been filming on Thursday, Friday, yesterday and today involving the various Team Stark members minus Jon...

2. And if the scenes are from 8x06...

3. And if Emilia was absent and Kit only arrived yesterday and filmed nothing yesterday or today...

4. And if the scene filmed today was the last Sansa scene in 8x06...

5. And if Sophie and other cast members playing various members of Team Stark are leaving Seville tomorrow...

6. And if the remaining scenes to be shot are from 8x05...***

7. Then can we conclude that Dany and Jon don’t make it?

 

 

That seems a hasty conclusion to me. We don't know exactly what was being filmed. Dany and Jon may be strangely absent, but that doesn't have to mean they're dead. Dany giving birth (possibly with Missandei and/or Gilly near her) would be one alternative reason. Dany and/or Jon surviving but not taking power (or at least not in Westeros proper - the Wall and beyond or Essos could be options) is another option. If Dany dies, Jon may retreat from public life after the Others have been defeated. Vice-versa, Dany may return to Essos should she lose Jon and quite possibly her dragons. Or she could chose to rule Volantis/Slavers Bay/etc to keep on top of the slavers, especially if she does keep at least one dragon.

Or there may be other reasons why they are just not present at that time, that doesn't necessary involve being dead or otherwise gravely injured.

If they have to film scenes for multiple episodes at that site, they would very likely do everything with the same team so even if the "right" directors haven't been seen they could still be scenes from 8x04 or 8x05 in the recent filming.

19 hours ago, SimoneS said:

If all the characters that filmed in Seville survived, it means that Dany, Missandei, and Gilly are the only characters in the main cast who die. Damn. I know that Martin's writing is misogynistic, but even so...

Let's remember that a lot of main and relatively major characters, starting with Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark, died during the series. And Missandei could be absent from those scenes for any kind of reasons (including the teased return to her home island), likewise for Gilly. Dany's (or rather, Emilia's) absence is remarkable, but far from definite proof that the character is dead at that point.

6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

They built the platform in the amphitheatre, though, so they must have filmed something there. 

Mariabazn_ on Twitter, who has been staking out the hotel for the past little while, claimed on April 23rd that there was filming going on (translated from Spanish):

"I've been told that there's a lot of security at the Alfonso XIII Hotel and I've seen various pictures of Peter Dinklage and Conleth Hill filming in Italica."

"I've been outside the hotel and there's much movement, many suitcases, the restaurant closed to the public and many high end cars with foreign license plates."

She reported in the intervening week on May 1st that everything seemed normal and quiet, and she didn't see anything else until the cast started pouring in last week.

I checked the filming leaks from Northern Ireland that week, and it's not impossible that there was something being filmed the week of the 23rd, but it seems strange that Peter, Conleth, and possibly others (not Sophie, though, she went to her brother's wedding on the 24th) were in Seville two weeks before anyone else and no one in Seville noticed. (On the other hand, no one would have noticed Gemma in Seville if she hadn't posted that photo on Instagram.)

If Peter and Conleth were filming, it couldn't have been in the amphitheatre, because on April 23rd they were still building the platform.

 

Tyrion and Varys would need to have (private) scenes if there are any plans to reveal Tyrion as a bastard son of Aerys (Ser Barristan being long dead on the show). The books have hinted at this, the show also seemed to with Tyrion releasing the dragons in Meereen, but afterwards played it down with Viserion going to the NK. Of course, they could simply have scenes about Dany and Cersei and stuff, but the possibility is still there in my eyes. In that case, he would be a clear candidate for a vacated throne. If there is any truth to the speculation that both Dany and Jon die or otherwise don't take the throne, that is.

In S7, Melisandre all but promised that Varys would die during S8 (possibly at Dany's hands, as has been speculated). I wonder what will come from that, as Varys surviving all the way to 8x06 seems unlikely (also in the context of the book ending, where Varys is very likely to have sided with fAegon).

4 hours ago, SeanC said:

I remain skeptical of the idea of King Gendry, though.  After all the discussion of the need for practical experience and realism in government, it makes little sense to end the series with a ruler with essentially no qualifications other than blood.  Gendry is a great guy, no doubt, but he’s also an illiterate peasant with no background or experience in anything a king does.

Gendry is a very unlikely endgame king in the books, and Edric Storm would have been included in the show (rather than being sort of merged with Gendry) if he was to be end-King. Moreover, GRRM has hinted that he had an idea (probably never to be executed, given its GRRM) to include Arya in a post-ASOIF murder mystery set in Braavos. It would seem unlikely that Arya could be involved in such a thing if she was to be queen of Westeros.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Wouter

[bubble sparkly]

The fact that Jaqen and the waif were there is a good indicator that there was some kind of fight scene imo.

As for everyone else, maybe the peasants rise up against the nobility lol?

I wonder if we might see Dany giving birth (with Gilly and Missandei to assist), at the same time Jon is in a 1v1 fight with the NK in the red keep or at the trident etc?  I can see them juxtaposing the birth of a new life with the death of...death.

If they did have something like that then maybe the rest of the gang is in KL fighting wights / GC / Lannisters and / or dealing with the small folk?

[Wouter]

7 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

The fact that Jaqen and the waif were there is a good indicator that there was some kind of fight scene imo.

As for everyone else, maybe the peasants rise up against the nobility lol?

I wonder if we might see Dany giving birth (with Gilly and Missandei to assist), at the same time Jon is in a 1v1 fight with the NK in the red keep or at the trident etc?  I can see them juxtaposing the birth of a new life with the death of...death.

If they did have something like that then maybe the rest of the gang is in KL fighting wights / GC / Lannisters and / or dealing with the small folk?

Jaqen and the Waif (possibly the same character given their use of multiple faces) may just be there to talk to Arya. If not, they may be there to target one particular person. Faceless men rarely need fight scenes for assassination, though (remember the poisoned coin, for example?).

At least those sightings give a reliable indication that the supposed "leaks" about Sansa dying and Tyrion being a traitor were rubbish.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Wouter

[Eyes High]

43 minutes ago, Edith said:

So she's not entirely sure that Kit didn't film yesterday. If he was practicing, then he either filmed or is going to.

Yeah. Even if he didn't film yesterday afternoon, it seems unlikely that he left without filming anything. Maybe there was a night shoot or something, I dunno. Of course, it's not certain that he left Seville, either. If Kit does stick around, he won't be filming anything involving the Unsullied, since the extras officially wrapped yesterday.

If it is just one scene and if the scene is a fight scene, it seems like a very odd assortment of characters, given all the non-combatants--Sansa, Bran, etc.--present. Of course, it's possible that there are multiple scenes being filmed, one involving a fight and the other(s) being non-fight scenes. They did shut down the whole site for filming, after all, and there's a lot to the Italica site outside the amphitheatre.

23 minutes ago, Wouter said:

That seems a hasty conclusion to me. We don't know exactly what was being filmed.

If it is just one scene and this scene is some kind of fight scene as /BoatsexBaby keeps suggesting, then I very much doubt that Jon and Dany's absences mean that they're dead. I was going off the assumption that there was only one scene being shot over four days and that this was a late 8x06 scene set in spring, but the Unsullied stunt stuff suggests otherwise...unless there are two scenes being filmed at once...?

Quote

 

Tyrion and Varys would need to have (private) scenes if there are any plans to reveal Tyrion as a bastard son of Aerys (Ser Barristan being long dead on the show). 

 

I'd be surprised about an Aerys bastard reveal. I will say that a Tyrion/Varys scene filmed on the Italica site would be something taking place fairly late in the season, since it would have to take place presumably after KL falls. Such a scene may even take place chronologically in the show after the scene that was filmed this week (if it was a battle sequence).

It does seem as if Tyrion is front and centre with whatever's going on in the scenes shot in Seville: not only did Peter film all four filming days along with Maisie, Sophie and Isaac, but he's also rumoured to have done a night shoot with Liam (and other actors, I assume).

Quote

Gendry is a very unlikely endgame king in the books, and Edric Storm would have been included in the show (rather than being sort of merged with Gendry) if he was to be end-King. Moreover, GRRM has hinted that he had an idea (probably never to be executed, given its GRRM) to include Arya in a post-ASOIF murder mystery set in Braavos. It would seem unlikely that Arya could be involved in such a thing if she was to be queen of Westeros.

I agree.

[bubble sparkly]

1 hour ago, WindyNights said:

Personally, I think there's a high chance that Jon lives through the series and beyond. Completely broken as a person. The Frodo ending.

I feel like Bran is already halfway to the Frodo ending with his 3ER stuff.  He will probably live but he's not really 100% human anymore, and maybe the poor guy will have to sit in a tree for a 1000 years to wait for the next long night or something lol.

If Jon lives, I would say he has a much better shot of getting the Aragorn and Arwen ending with Dany.

[Wouter]

8 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

I feel like Bran is already halfway to the Frodo ending with his 3ER stuff.  He will probably live but he's not really 100% human anymore, and maybe the poor guy will have to sit in a tree for a 1000 years to wait for the next long night or something lol.

If Jon lives, I would say he has a much better shot of getting the Aragorn and Arwen ending with Dany.

He does have that thing about dying and being resurrected, though. Would GRRM just shrug that of, in the books? It's possible either way, I think.

[Edith]

Quote

TherealFrikidoctor

Oh, but Kit has been filming for sure, with Isaac and Jacob...

Quote

TherealFrikidoctor

You said it. He left the hotel. And were did he go after that? Do you have a pic of him in the airport? Weird that nobody spotted him there unlike Peter... He filmed today in Italica.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Edith

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

You look at spoilers indicating Tyrion, Sansa, Arya, and Gendry are filming scenes together for 8x06 and your conclusion is that Sansa's going to end up with Gendry? Seriously?

 

I can't believe that I am saying this, but it is more likely than Arya being paired with Gendry. Arya will be 12 years old when the books end so it unlikely that she will have a romantic ending.

Edited May 16, 2018 by SimoneS

[Sunshinegal]

30 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I can't believe that I am saying this, but it is more likely than Arya being paired with Gendry. Arya will be 12 years old when the books end so it unlikely that she will have a romantic ending.

We actually don't know how old Arya will be when the books end.  And they can have flashforwards in the book or even time jumps.  GRMM originally wanted the five year jump before he scrapped the idea so in the books Arya would have originally been old enough to have a romantic relationship.  But even if Arya doesn't have a romantic ending doesn't mean that Sansa will end up with Gendry.  Sansa has her own storyline with her own character arc with other interesting characters (Tyrion, the Hound, Littlefinger) that she has to deal with.   I don't know if Arya and Gendry will end up with each other.  But, if Gendry ends up with a Stark girl he would end up with the Stark girl that he interacted with in two of the books. 

[SimoneS]

33 minutes ago, Sunshinegal said:

But even if Arya doesn't have a romantic ending doesn't mean that Sansa will end up with Gendry.  

I said "more likely" not that Sansa will end up with Gendry.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, Edith said:

 

Some dude based in Essex said he met the GOT cast today and had a chat with “Jon Snow.”

I think it’s more likely that Kit left after all, based on everything local sources have said. Kit left the hotel with Peter, Isaac and Jacob, and the latter three definitely left Seville. Friki’s wrong on this one, I think. There may well be Seville filming still, but not involving Kit.

As for the comments in other posts about Arya being too young in the books for a romantic storyline because she’s only 12...Book Sansa was 11 when she was madly in love with Joffrey and 12 when she was imagining what it would be like to take  off Loras’ shirt. In the books, Dany and Tyrion were married at 13 to people they still consider the loves of their lives. Just saying.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Eyes High

[anamika]

9 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Judging from the tweet linked about how everyone was really sad at dinner, I'm leaning more and more towards the theory that whatever was filmed in Seville yesterday, it was the last scene of the series not only for Sansa, but for every character whose actor was present. Heck, it may have even been the last scene of the show, period.

 

 

I would be cautious about such tweets, considering this was the view for the fans of the actors at dinner:

She could really tell from that distance that everyone was being sad while eating dinner? lol! I think there's a bit of embellishment going on from some of the fans meeting the cast. Of course, they could be sad for filming the last scene with Sophie but I would not take these tweets at face value. 

Unsullied being there means it could be a fight scene of some sort. And If the Unsullied are still hanging around for whatever scenes they are filming, then it can be taken as a surety that Dany is still hanging round. Their loyalty is only to Dany - they are sticking around because she freed them. No other reason. I can see them leaving if she dies. So either Dany is alive in springtime and her Unsullied are hanging around or they are not filming spring/summer scenes and it's still before the denouement.

I also don't see Bran's ending scene or last scene being in the South. There's no way. Arya becoming queen of KL is a theory of mine - but like others have said - Gendry being a King is slightly mind boggling. He does not have the story for it and I would think that there should be some build up for it. Gendry could provide her support - but not as a king I don't think.

As for Sansa - why are people looking at Gendry, when Lino has been filming there with these actors constantly the past week? He came with all the actors when they arrived and was still there when they were leaving. Just like Gendry is an Arya character, SweetRobin is a Sansa character who seems to be there for Sansa's last scene on the series. The fact that they brought him back to film with Sansa indicates to me atleast that the Vale is part of Sansa's ending.

And for the record, I have not given up on my 'Tyrion Betrayal' theory :)  You will have to pry that out of my cold, dead hands when the last episode is over. We still don't know the tiniest bit about what they filmed there! For all we know, Unsullied there could mean it's still not spring. Tyrion could have kidnapped Sansa! Davos and Tyrion have a confrontation. Varys and Tyrion have a conversation like LF and Varys did before the Iron Throne. Jaqen could wear Waif's face and be trying to kill Arya! Arya could be wearing Sansa's face to fuck things up for Tyrion. Bran could be seeing some visions of Arya and Sansa running around. What was Asha doing there? And Sam?

And then we have Gwen who has also been there from the very beginning of filming. Are we to assume that her last scene is with the Starks and not in Tarth or mourning Jaime somewhere? They have closely attached her to Sansa, but I think she deserves better than to end her story with Sansa. So hopefully that's not her last scene in the series either. And Sam's last scene is with this gang?

So no, I don't think that whatever they were filming there was a last scene in the series for all the actors filming there. I have no idea at all what they could be filming.  Sophie seems especially emotional about whatever happened in Seville because she tweeted about it and avoided fans. Spain Unsullied seems to have wrapped up. All the actors who showed up, may have filmed something. That's all.

Edited May 17, 2018 by anamika

[GraceK]

9 minutes ago, anamika said:

o no, I don't think that whatever they were filming there was a last scene in the series for all the actors filming there. I have no idea at all what they could be filming.  Sophie seems especially emotional about whatever happened in Seville because she tweeted about it and avoided fans. Spain Unsullied seems to have wrapped up. All the actors who showed up, may have filmed something. That's all.

I agree. There was also unsullied and Dothraki a few weeks ago in KL right? There’s is a lot more to be filmed. These could just be little scenes. Or a very important one for Sansa in particular. Rushing to judgement that it’s the be all end all for the series I think is jumping the gun. 

[anamika]

I am especially baffled by the posts saying that we can trash the 'Tyrion is a traitor' theory. Like why? What piece of confirmed information have we got from Spain filming that proves this theory false?  Did I missing something? Tyrion seems to be the only Lannister hanging around in a KL setting with possible fight scenes with Unsullied going on in there. I can as well say that Dany Vs Tyrion is happening.

It's also very possible that if the show cannot deal with both the AOTD and Cersei (Lannisters) by the finale, the last episode could be a 2 hour film like episode. If that's the case then a lot can happen in episode 6.

Edited May 17, 2018 by anamika

[screamin]

7 hours ago, SeanC said:

Yes, he could have good advisors, but still, one of the ongoing themes is that the qualities of the king himself matters quite a lot.  Gendry has in no way been prepared by the narrative to take the throne, so ending with him being crowned would essentially be a “good man must needs be a good king” situation, exactly the kind of thinking previously argued against.

Honestly, I think we can't actually say that “good man must needs be a good king” can be said to have been tried and failed in Westeros at all in the show - as in a good man (or woman)  being crowned by acclamation as such and turning out NOT to be good. Robert was never a good man, IMO. Dany was never made ruler by a populace that recognized her as such. Jon might eventually be a good man and king but hasn't proved himself to be the second yet. It's possible that lacking Jon and Dany at the end, a war-weary population MIGHT pick Gendry because he's good and to avoid any further squabbling over the throne.

It could only happen if Jon and Dany were dead, though, and enough of their forces willing to follow Gendry to allow him to rule, AND if Jon and Dany left no child with pretensions to the throne, because if Gendry marries and begets children (as is probable such a young man will do) it's setting up another set of near future possible murders and/or wars over the succession again.

While I do think Jon is doomed (he's been living on borrowed time ever since he died), I do like to think that Dany will realize her real calling in Westeros was to be the Prince(ss) that was Promised and avert the Apocalypse - and that having done so, bullying Westeros into submission to her rule is downhill from there; too difficult to do without dragons (as they will probably all be dead at the end), not beneficial enough to the population for her to justify the continued bloodshed required, and a hellish fate to wish on her future child as her heir to the nasty throne. I still hope she'll abdicate, leave Westeros to (probably) break up into the kingdoms it started out as, and sail off with her child to find the equivalent of the 'house with the red door' where she spent a happy, inconsequential childhood to raise her own child in.

[Eyes High]

Here we go: Kit, Sophie, John, Gwen, Jacob, Isaac, and Sophie were snapped at Stansted today. (Photo at /Freefolk.) In the photo, you can see a guy who looks like Tobias (Edmure). Photo taker thinks it is Tobias. Hmmmm.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Eyes High

[Leila6]

5 hours ago, Eyes High said:

So I don’t see R+L=J as a plot device, per se; rather, it’s, as @poorquentyn says, is the ultimate expression of that theme. It’s a way to demonstrate that heart in conflict, the key axis of GRRM’s story. Are you defined by what came before you, or are you what you choose to be? Are you the hero because it’s been foretold you would be the hero and you’re just another gear in the machine of prophecy, or are you someone who chooses to act in the hope of spring against the cold and darkness of winter?

(To be clear, Eyes High was quoting a quote, not the source of the quote.)

 

This analysis was interesting, but it loses me here. Jon has already made his choice to be a hero who “acts in the hope of spring against the cold and darkness of winter” before he has learned about the prophecy related to him. I don’t see much of an internal conflict in that regard, as the prophecy reveal will occur too late in the game to impact that choice or spur his motivation. And if they mean, are you the hero because you were fated to be the hero, well, who cares? If you didn’t know you were fated to be the hero, then it was still your actions and choices that made you the hero. That’s not an example of a heart in conflict with itself. And as this seems to be the crux of this person’s argument about R+L=J not having larger implications to the plot, I’m not buying what they’re selling.

[Eyes High]

/BoatsexBaby has now said that Kit and Gwen had stand-ins/doubles who went to Seville as well (we already knew about Peter and Sophie) and is saying that the sighting of Kit, Gwen and Sophie at Stansted last week was actually a sighting of their doubles. (Isn’t Gwen’s stand-in a dude, though? And Sophie’s stand-in has red hair, not blonde.)

So Kit must have filmed something, right? Why else would Kit’s stand-in be needed? But why was Kit’s stand-in flying in on Tuesday when Kit didn’t film anything until the following week?

A person who was at Stansted when their friend took the picture of the cast said that the cast members there included the “knights of the Vale.” Not sure how they would know that unless they meant Yohn Royce (Rupert Vansittart).

Edited May 17, 2018 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

As for Sansa - why are people looking at Gendry, when Lino has been filming there with these actors constantly the past week? He came with all the actors when they arrived and was still there when they were leaving. Just like Gendry is an Arya character, SweetRobin is a Sansa character who seems to be there for Sansa's last scene on the series. The fact that they brought him back to film with Sansa indicates to me atleast that the Vale is part of Sansa's ending.

Robin on the show isn't a Sansa character.  He's had basically one conversation with her in the whole show, the Snow Castle scene.  Rather like with the "King Gendry" theory, you can tell that the Sansa/Robin relationship isn't important in any sense because the show hasn't dedicated any time at all to it (or, really, to Robin as a character in general; he's had like four scenes in the last six seasons).

Quote

And then we have Gwen who has also been there from the very beginning of filming. Are we to assume that her last scene is with the Starks and not in Tarth or mourning Jaime somewhere? They have closely attached her to Sansa, but I think she deserves better than to end her story with Sansa. 

Why would Brienne's story end on Tarth?  That's been entirely unimportant to her presence in the series, which has been all about Jaime and the Starks.  If Jaime's gone, I'd expect her final scene to be with the Starks.

[GraceK]

9 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Robin on the show isn't a Sansa character.  He's had basically one conversation with her in the whole show, the Snow Castle scene.  Rather like with the "King Gendry" theory, you can tell that the Sansa/Robin relationship isn't important in any sense because the show hasn't dedicated any time at all to it (or, really, to Robin as a character in general; he's had like four scenes in the last six seasons).

Yes but to be fair, The Knights of the Vale featured pretty heavily in the Battle of the Bastards only because Robin, at Littlefingers prompting, told them to go for Sansa. Since season 4 anyway,  Robin has been quietly in the background in the Vale with Littlefinger who has been playing his cousinly duty to Sansa. The Knights of the Vale, which owe their allegiance to Robin Arryn are now just hanging out in Winterfell.  I think he absolutely is attached to Sansas story in the show. They are connected. It’s not a coincidence he’s been seen filming in Seville. Why else would he be there if not for some sort of Connection to the Vale, which Sansa is also involved with in the show? 

Edited May 17, 2018 by GraceK

[anamika]

26 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

/BoatsexBaby has now said that Kit and Gwen had stand-ins/doubles who went to Seville as well (we already knew about Peter and Sophie) and is saying that the sighting of Kit, Gwen and Sophie at Stansted last week was actually a sighting of their doubles. (Isn’t Gwen’s stand-in a dude, though? And Sophie’s stand-in has red hair, not blonde.)

So Kit must have filmed something, right? Why else would Kit’s stand-in be needed? But why was Kit’s stand-in flying in on Tuesday when Kit didn’t film anything until the following week?

It's possible that it was just rehearsals if it was a stand in. Like Kit rehearsing fight stunts when he went there.

Again, as per the memo, the amphitheatre is supposed to be closed from the 19th to the 27th. Unless they are using that time to take apart the platform they build, there could very well be more filming taking place there.

23 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Robin on the show isn't a Sansa character.  He's had basically one conversation with her in the whole show, the Snow Castle scene.  Rather like with the "King Gendry" theory, you can tell that the Sansa/Robin relationship isn't important in any sense because the show hasn't dedicated any time at all to it (or, really, to Robin as a character in general; he's had like four scenes in the last six seasons).

But Robin is a Sansa character in the books. His story revolved around her. His life probably depends on her actions there. If her show ending has to align with the book one, why would he not connect with her story on the show towards the end? Just like how Gendry was re-introduced last season and had a big role there, SweetRobin could be re-introduced next season as Lord of the Vale, whose support is conditional.

From the Spain filming, it looks like he has filmed with Sansa in what could be her last scenes.

23 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Why would Brienne's story end on Tarth?  That's been entirely unimportant to her presence in the series, which has been all about Jaime and the Starks.  If Jaime's gone, I'd expect her final scene to be with the Starks.

I personally think that would suck. She has fulfilled her oath to Catelyn and after the way Sansa treated her last season, I think that her last scene should be about her - whether that be going back to Tarth or a scene where she is mourning Jaime or where she is being a knight and saving someone. In the books, her story has been more about Jaime than the Starks anyways. And the show seems to be pivoting in that direction as well from some of the filming spoilers of NCW and Gwen filming at the same time.

Though I could see Brienne sticking around with Arya in fights since they apparently formed a deep, deep bond last season according to Gwen.

Edited May 17, 2018 by anamika

[GrailKing]

Stanstead (?) Airport

Edited May 17, 2018 by GrailKing