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Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

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41 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

LF is prophecized to meet his end at Winterfell hence a maid slaying a giant at the castle made of snow.

Tyrion doesn't have to die for the marriage to go away either. LF can just use the fact that Tysha and Tyrion married to annul Sansa's marriage.

That prophecy is ambiguous. Lots of castles will be made of snow soon (the Eyrie already is a plausible alternative, allthough it is deserted now) and the giant may be LF but that isn't a 100% certain thing.

The Tysha/Tyrion marriage was declared null and void. If LF can get it annulled on those grounds, he would have to have the High Septon in his pocket so he could just annul the Tyrion/Sansa marriage without resorting to Tysha. But at the moment, the High Septon is unlikely to listen to LF, especially with Lannisters still in power.

 

I agree with those who say we don't know much. Even exactly who is fighting who at Winterfell isn't clear.

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There are still possibilities for leaks before the season. There was someone who gave big informations about S6 at Free Folk weeks before the actual episodes aired. We knew everything important about S6. Hold the door, Sept explosion, that Jon will become KITN, Ramsay's death and how it will happen, Benjen's return, Thoros and Beric's return and so on.

In S5 the first 4 episodes leaked, Shireen's death and Drogon in Daznak leaked several hours before E9. Pics of Cersei during WoS and Jon's death. We knew everything important about Hardhome months before S5. We knew about Jaime in Dorne, his fight with SS. We knew that Tyrion and Dany will meet. 

In S7 we had everything LOL. And even some episodes leaked before airing,

If HBO succeeds in avoiding these types of leaks from someone within the production or their company (like it happened during S6 and S5) or leaks of episodes before the airing I think it is possible that we won't know anything, we would truly be unspoiled.

I think leaks of scripts (like it happened with S7 and even some parts in S6, like that scene with Kinvara and S5, scene with SS and Bronn) are already impossible. Time for that has passed. Also informations from extras that we had in every season(I remember leaks about Craster's Keep in S4) won't happen this year. Maybe there will be some leaks about KL battle. There is still time for that.

But as I said, if HBO avoids leaks from within (like massive leaks about S6) eveyrthing will be unspoiled. 

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Well, we still have a whole year. There is still time ? who knows what the future will bring for us intrepid spoiler explorers?

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22 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Well, we still have a whole year

I don't think we have a whole year. S8 will air in March or April. That's less than a year. 

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1 hour ago, nikma said:

I don't think we have a whole year. S8 will air in March or April. That's less than a year. 

I say February, ending in march before or at the spring equinox, which in 2019 would is march 20, 2019, so March 17.

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That's possible. In that letter  producers sent to the crew in April, they said that that episode (E3?)will air "a year from now".  So it is even possible that at this time next year the whole show will be already over. LOL

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9 hours ago, nikma said:

I think this information about Riverrun is what makes me question his legitimacy. Only D&D, Cogman, Nutter, Sapocnik or people who are really really high in hierarchy would know that. Not a random extra. 

 

9 hours ago, Eyes High said:

It's only plausible for those unaware of Fake Leak 101: wait until set spoilers come out, incorporate said spoilers into your "leaks," throw in a bit of not-outrageous information to give it a veneer of respectability, and voila!

...You'll note that this dude said nothing about Jaqen, Sam and Robin in KL before the Seville spoilers came out, but now that we know Lino filmed in Seville, he suddenly has this inside scoop?

Exactly.

he said he was meant to work as an extra on the Riverrun set before it was nuked and things changed around to accommodate a bigger Battle at Winterfell.

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9 hours ago, Wouter said:

That prophecy is ambiguous. Lots of castles will be made of snow soon (the Eyrie already is a plausible alternative, allthough it is deserted now) and the giant may be LF but that isn't a 100% certain thing.

The Tysha/Tyrion marriage was declared null and void. If LF can get it annulled on those grounds, he would have to have the High Septon in his pocket so he could just annul the Tyrion/Sansa marriage without resorting to Tysha. But at the moment, the High Septon is unlikely to listen to LF, especially with Lannisters still in power.

 

I agree with those who say we don't know much. Even exactly who is fighting who at Winterfell isn't clear.

But the castle made of snow that Sansa created was Winterfell.

 

It's absolutely LF. LF died on Sansa's orders in the show and most hardcore fans believed that the prophecy meant Sansa would have LF killed anyway. And LF's family sigil is a Titan aka a giant.

Also Tysha and Tyrion's marriage wasn't declared null and void from what I remember. There's no mention of that anyway. Plus LF is aware of Tysha.

Edited by WindyNights

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2 hours ago, WindyNights said:

 

he said he was meant to work as an extra on the Riverrun set before it was nuked and things changed around to accommodate a bigger Battle at Winterfell.

Again, there is no way that D&D changed their plans about something that big that late, when they arleady hired extras. This is too big for that type of improvisation from the production.

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17 hours ago, SeanC said:

Royce wasn’t used much because he’s not an important character and the show doesn’t need to give him character development.  He’s a background figure used to represent the Vale.

Precisely. That's why Royce was there - because he's a background figure on whom the show does not have to spend time on.

17 hours ago, SeanC said:

It’s no great thing to give him a couple of lines here and there.  Have him in the trial scene and make a point of Sansa proving to him that Littlefinger killed Lysa (which Littlefinger readily confessed to).

How would she prove to him that LF killed Lysa? On the show, that moment consisted of her just saying it and everyone accepting it as fact. So you just want SR to sit around with the other lords for the same scene we had last season?

17 hours ago, SeanC said:

Arya and Bran did have a plot last season.  They didn’t have separate plots, at least past a certain point, but that’s not the same thing.

Arya and Bran had a plot that was about Sansa. They were in the plot because LF had manipulated Sansa to create a feud with Arya and needing Bran's help to figure it all out. According to you, they could have written Sansa as manipulating SR and turning the tables on LF - then why even have Arya and Bran in there! Just make the whole thing about Sansa, SR and LF and have Arya and Bran sit it out. Since apparently any future relationships that Sansa has on the show is more important than Arya and Bran.

The writers were struggling last season to involve all three siblings in the WF plot, write a proper conclusion for LF and move the plot forward. And it was rushed, one-sided and just terribly written over all. And you want them to introduce SR in the mix?

17 hours ago, SeanC said:

Robin has been a one-note joke in every season of the show.  That tells you something.

Olenna Tyrell's husband was a bit of an idiot. Margaery married Tommen because he was malleable. And Sansa was supposed to have learned from all these people, right?

Last season showed us that Sansa wants to be in charge. She wants to have things done her way and does not like it when others presume to advice her. So Sansa may not mind a husband she can bend to her will.

I hesitate to say that Royce is smarter than Robin. This is an army commander to whom Sansa had to explain about the importance of castles as a first line of defense. Imagine that.

17 hours ago, SeanC said:

Royce isn’t Lord of the Vale, but he is Lord of Runestone, which is in the Vale.  He obviously would be concerned about it.

Even assuming the show felt bound to that logic about the seating arrangements, so?

But as you stated, he is not an important character. Royce on the show was acting as a Northerner  and talking like a Northern lord about Northern concerns. I doubt the head of house Arryn is going to be talking like Royce or Glover. Why should SR be worried about the KITN staying in the North? That's a Northern concern. The Lord of the Vale would be pushing for Jon to go get allies and put in a good word for house Arryn while Jon is at it because the Vale is sitting defenseless between Cersei and Dany.  

And if SR is sitting at the table - then it makes the point that the North is now allied with another powerful house whose needs also have to be addressed. Just like house heads gathered around Dany's painted table making a case for their own concerns.  SR is not the same as Royce sitting among the Northern lords and acting like one of them.  SR also send his army to help save his cousin from the Boltons, not fight the AOTD. He may want his army back.

I would think that there would have to be atleast one political marriage between the houses before the series ends. From GRRM's comments I don't think Gendry/Arya is happening. Dany and Jon turned into a romance on the show - and the books also hint at love between them.  It's possible that it's Sansa and SR. It could also be that Sansa's marriage to Tyrion sticks and she is stuck with him for the rest of her life. Marrying the Hound would get Sansa nothing. Maybe that's Sansa's ending - choosing a cold political marriage instead of one for love with the Hound.

As for the rest of the spoilers, it's so weird that all these actors were there and yet fans did not spot Jorah, Edmure, Yara etc. But they seem to know that Lino/SR was filming with his stand in along with the rest of the cast. The only person that we can be certain did not film there is Emilia. HBO/David and Dan have been amazing this year with respect to keeping everything under cover.

But if Edmure, SR, unnamed actor for Dorne, Gendry, Starks, Tyrion, Sam, Yara (Poor Theon) were all there, then it could very well be a great council at the dragon pit. Looks like only house Targaryen is missing. Which is funny considering the venue. Maybe they are discussing baby Targ - and that's why Jorah and GreyWorm are hanging around.

And yes, it's nice to have Edmure Tully and the Riverlands back in play.

Edited by anamika

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2 hours ago, anamika said:

Olenna Tyrell's husband was a bit of an idiot. Margaery married Tommen because he was malleable. And Sansa was supposed to have learned from all these people, right?

True, but even TV Tommen while still clearly being a bit of a dim bulb had more depth as a character than TV Robin. 

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As for the rest of the spoilers, it's so weird that all these actors were there and yet fans did not spot Jorah, Edmure, Yara etc. 

Iain was seen but never snapped. No one knew Tobias was there, and no one would have known that Gemma was there had she not posted that picture on IG which allowed fans to zero in on her location. Since the hotel was pretty much staked out by fans, Iain, Tobias and Gemma must have been staying somewhere else. It is possible that there are other actors there who were never spotted, because they weren't at the Hotel XIII. There's a fellow in the Wednesday airport photo who looks a bit like Mark Gatiss (Tycho Nestoris), which would make sense since Gatiss said earlier that Tycho would appear in two episodes in Season 8.

I dunno. Had we not had the S7 dragonpit spoilers well in advance, we may have thought the 2016 group filming in Seville was some sort of grand conspiracy to hoodwink fans as well. It is true that actors have made set visits before without filming anything (Jason Momoa, Sibel Kekilli), and it's possible that they are filming some sort of documentary or promotional material, but I now tend to think that anyone who was in Seville probably filmed something, although I have no idea when Lena and NCW would have managed to do it.

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But if Edmure, SR, unnamed actor for Dorne, Gendry, Starks, Tyrion, Sam, Yara (Poor Theon) were all there, then it could very well be a great council at the dragon pit.

I would think so, too, were it not for those Unsullied extras and Vlad filming out of makeup and presumably working on stunts. What sort of stunts would be needed at a Great Council? It would be one thing if the stunts were only for the night shoots, and the Great Council stuff was shot during the day, but that's not clear. The Unsullied extras took their group photo during the day marking the end of filming, so I guess they weren't involved with whatever Kit shot on Wednesday morning...?

One possibility is that the Great Council gets a little heated and a fight breaks out, which may explain the stunts. Other than that, though, I dunno.

There's also all the stand-ins/doubles being used. We know that Sophie, Peter, Lino, Gwen, and Maisie at the very least used stand-ins or doubles. Why? Maisie only had her stunt double, not a stand-in, so presumably the other doubles were being used for action scenes as well, right? (At the Daznak Pit sequence, there were stand-ins for Tyrion, Dany, Daario, Hizdahr and Missandei.) 

With that said, I think that /BoatsexBaby knows a lot more than she's telling about the stand-ins and the production in general, so she may be intentionally muddying the waters to avoid giving too much away, and her hints about the Italica shooting being some sort of battle should be taken with a grain of salt.

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Looks like only house Targaryen is missing. Which is funny considering the venue. Maybe they are discussing baby Targ - and that's why Jorah and GreyWorm are hanging around.

Grey Worm may only be a part of whatever Kit and Jacob filmed together, although you'd think that if there are Unsullied extras that Jacob wouldn't be far behind. 

And I agree, filming in the Dragonpit sans any actual, you know, dragons (Targs or otherwise) is mighty odd. I guess D&D may have wanted to film a big meeting at the Italica amphitheatre again and wrote a big scene to make it happen, since they had so much fun filming the last one.

The big question is, if it is a Great Council and Jon and Dany are absent, why would they film it in Seville where dedicated fans can clue in to the obvious? D&D don't think about the hardcore fans putting the pieces together most of the time, which is why they filmed the dragonpit stuff in Seville and essentially spoiled who lived and died in S7 by who showed up, but they're not stupid, either. 

Edited by Eyes High

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Is the idea that Edmure was there based mainly on the photo of the cast at the Stansted airport? Because the guy people were claiming was Edmure looked like he had a bit of a belly, which Tobias Menzies does not.

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14 minutes ago, Leila6 said:

Is the idea that Edmure was there based mainly on the photo of the cast at the Stansted airport? Because the guy people were claiming was Edmure looked like he had a bit of a belly, which Tobias Menzies does not.

Yes, but the hair, face and height checked out. And if it is a postwar scene with Yara and Robin involved, Edmure's presence would make sense.

On another note, I disagree with the posters who claim we know very little about S8. We know quite a bit. A lot of it's just little tidbits here and there, but little tidbits can add up to a lot.

Edited by Eyes High

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Emilia Clarke will be on Graham Norton today (ugh, hate that show) and on Colbert on May 23rd. I am beginning to wonder if her main filming is done.

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17 hours ago, Wouter said:

That prophecy is ambiguous. Lots of castles will be made of snow soon (the Eyrie already is a plausible alternative, allthough it is deserted now) and the giant may be LF but that isn't a 100% certain thing.

I believe they gave the GOHH to us in 4-8: Sansa comes down in a Black ( mourning, death )dress trimmed in Raven /Crow feathers (Death messengers, intelligent birds, have good memory ), topped off with a Necklace in a symbol ( Theta, symbol for death in Greek alphabet ) that has been shown since season 1.

My interpretation: Death is coming and she's looking straight at LF. their next stop is Winterfell.

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1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

Emilia Clarke will be on Graham Norton today (ugh, hate that show) and on Colbert on May 23rd. I am beginning to wonder if her main filming is done.

I'm pretty sure she said during the Solo press stuff that she had like a 2 week break for Solo promo then she was going back to GOT filming.

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1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

Emilia Clarke will be on Graham Norton today (ugh, hate that show) and on Colbert on May 23rd. I am beginning to wonder if her main filming is done.

Me too. I would really be surprised if she dies after all. Almost since the beggining I thought that she will die. Dany and many characters around her were talking how she would one day rule Westeros. I thought that was a clear evidence that that would never happen. I thought she will die like a hero.

But since there were many hints in S7 that she will have a child I then thought that there is no way that she will die, since there is not enough time for her to give birth and then die.

I'm not saying that the fact that she won't be part of the Dragonpit scene(s) means that she will die. But it feels that that scene will have a lot of characters and it will be in the last episode. So it has to be something important. And for her not to be part of that is very strange if she is alive. 

I don't know really. I am confused lol.

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29 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

I'm pretty sure she said during the Solo press stuff that she had like a 2 week break for Solo promo then she was going back to GOT filming.

Yup. Other cast members have taken extended breaks from filming and have come back as well: Sophie was pretty much MIA for three months earlier this year but came back to film in Belfast and later in Seville.

27 minutes ago, nikma said:

I'm not saying that the fact that she won't be part of the Dragonpit scene(s) means that she will die. But it feels that that scene will have a lot of characters and it will be in the last episode. So it has to be something important. And for her not to be part of that is very strange if she is alive. 

I don't know really. I am confused lol.

Why are we just talking about Dany? If the Italica scene filmed during the day is denouement, postwar "spring is here"-type stuff with all the surviving cast (and I'm not saying definitively that it is, with the whole Vlad/Unsullied extras/stunt issue and the continued claims that not everyone who showed up was there to film S8 scenes), Jon ain't there either. Sophie's emotional tweet went out on Tuesday evening, before Kit filmed his scenes, so I'm guessing whatever wrapped had nothing to do with him.

Also, from the list of characters whose actors were in Seville, we have a pretty good representation of all the major players in Westeros and beyond, except for Dorne:

North: Starklings and Jorah

Vale: Robin and the Knights of the Vale

Westerlands: Tyrion

Stormlands: Gendry (maybe)

Riverlands: Edmure

Reach: Sam

FM: Jaqen and the Waif

Iron Bank: Tycho Nestoris, maybe?

So if we have a finale scene with no action and pretty much everyone and their brother in the main cast present, as well as several minor characters who seem to be representative of various factions (Jaqen, the Waif, Robin, Edmure, maybe Tycho Nestoris, etc.) except for Jon and Dany...well, that raises a lot of questions.

Edited by Eyes High
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Yeah. But it seems that Kit did film something there after all. But if he is not does that means he is dead as well? What do you think? Has anyone any idea what is happening in Dragonpit in S8 lol?

If Jon and Dany both die that would explain Emilia's reaction to S8 script lol.

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Why does everyone assume that the Dragonpit scene is the end scene anyway? It could just be a scene. An important scene in what could be a 90 minute episode. People are acting like the finale was shot and it’s a wrap , game over, Dany and Jon are dead, bye bye , denouement, that’s it folks. There is absolutely no confirmation of that at all. We have no idea what is happening.  

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17 minutes ago, nikma said:

Yeah. But it seems that Kit did film something there after all. But if he is not does that means he is dead as well? What do you think? Has anyone any idea what is happening in Dragonpit in S8 lol?

If Jon and Dany both die that would explain Emilia's reaction to S8 script lol.

When Emilia found out Jon Snow died, she put the script in the freezer, so yeah, maybe.

8 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Why does everyone assume that the Dragonpit scene is the end scene anyway? It could just be a scene. An important scene in what could be a 90 minute episode. People are acting like the finale was shot and it’s a wrap , game over, Dany and Jon are dead, bye bye , denouement, that’s it folks. There is absolutely no confirmation of that at all. We have no idea what is happening.  

What makes me think it's a denouement scene is that Seville gets awfully hot in May and they wouldn't make cast stand around for hours outdoors in fur cloaks and such at that time of year. The last dragonpit scene was shot in the fall. For night shoots, they wouldn't have to worry about that because the temperature drops right down, but all indications are that they filmed during the day.

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22 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Why does everyone assume that the Dragonpit scene is the end scene anyway?

I don't. But that scene is important for sure. That is an important location with a lot of characters there. So it's an important scene from the last episode without Dany and even without Jon maybe. So that's why I ask does anyone has any idea what is happening there? 

Edited by nikma

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14 minutes ago, nikma said:

I'm not. But that scene is important for sure. That is an important location with a lot of characters there. 

If the last scene in 8x06 is in the North--which is by no means known for a fact, but it is a longstanding assumption many fans have had--and if the scene filmed in Seville during the day was Sansa's last scene in 8x06 (also not clear but may be implied by Sophie's tweet), then wouldn't that mean that Sansa doesn't end up at Winterfell?

Edited by Eyes High

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Well if the last scene takes place at WF, they could already filmed that scene before Spain. So that scene in Spain is the last Sophie will film, but it's not the last scene Sansa will have in the show. 

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49 minutes ago, nikma said:

If Jon and Dany both die that would explain Emilia's reaction to S8 script lol.

Maybe Jon and Dany don't die, but take their kid and just peace out and leave the ruling of Westeros to a Great Counsel.  I could see that being very appealing to Jon and maybe even to Dany after all the pain and destruction that is sure to come.  She has always wanted her house with the red door so maybe she has some realization that what she really wants is not to be a conqueror.  I, personally, wouldn't mind an ending like that for them- although it would mystify me as to why their story arcs up to now have been about learning how to lead and rule if they won't be leading or ruling.  

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1 minute ago, domina89 said:

Maybe Jon and Dany don't die, but take their kid and just peace out and leave the ruling of Westeros to a Great Counsel. 

I don't think that fits Dany's character at all. It would be like when Frank Underwood decided that he doesn't want to be president after all in House of Cards S5. 

And I don't think that that kind of ending would affect Emilia in the way she described in that interview, 

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33 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

What makes me think it's a denouement scene is that Seville gets awfully hot in May and they wouldn't make cast stand around for hours outdoors in fur cloaks and such at that time of year. The last dragonpit scene was shot in the fall. For night shoots, they wouldn't have to worry about that because the temperature drops right down, but all indications are that they filmed during the day.

I agree. It is a denouement scene with a time jump. I don't understand why it would happen at Dragonpit though. The only thing I can think of is that they are recognizing that Gendry is a Targaryen.  I don't buy that Dany is actually having a kid during the season. If she dies, it will be fighting the NK. 

Edited by SimoneS
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18 minutes ago, nikma said:

Well if the last scene takes place at WF, they could already filmed that scene before Spain. So that scene in Spain is the last Sophie will film, but it's not the last scene Sansa will have in the show. 

I'm guessing they did some damage to the WF set during the battle, though, and Sophie was MIA for months when they were filming the battle and for a good while afterwards, so I doubt that if there is a final scene set at Winterfell that she filmed it there.

7 minutes ago, nikma said:

I don't think that fits Dany's character at all. It would be like when Frank Underwood decided that he doesn't want to be president after all in House of Cards S5. 

And I don't think that that kind of ending would affect Emilia in the way she described in that interview, 

If Dany dies, Jon had better fucking die with her.

I agree that Dany has too great a sense of responsibility to peace out and leave the devastated residents of a wartorn Westeros, not to mention the Unsullied and the Dothraki, to their own devices, but if Jon and Dany take their kid and do the "Fuck you, fuck you, you're cool, and fuck you, I'm out!" ending? I can live with it, particularly if the alternative is them dying. If anyone's earned peace and quiet, Dany has.

TV Jon on the other hand would totally leave everyone to find a beach somewhere. He was ready to do that in Season 6.

Edited by Eyes High

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I guess I’m the lone person who is not convinced that Dany and Jon die. Oh well. I will be that lone voice ? I am an island. They live Dammit!! They live!!

Edited by GraceK
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I'm not  convinced that they are going to die either. Everything that happened in S7 for me was a hint that they will live and rule together. Their child, Jon being a real Targeryan and so on.

But if this Dragonpit scene takes place after the war and they are not there, I think they are dead for sure. On the one hand I would be shocked with that development. But on the other I would even like that. I always liked a good tragedy LOL. 

This show started with Ned's death. It would be powerful IMO to end it with Jon and Dany's death. I'm still not sure that this is going to happen, but these informations from Spain made me think about that possibility.

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1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Why are we just talking about Dany? If the Italica scene filmed during the day is denouement, postwar "spring is here"-type stuff with all the surviving cast (and I'm not saying definitively that it is, with the whole Vlad/Unsullied extras/stunt issue and the continued claims that not everyone who showed up was there to film S8 scenes), Jon ain't there either. Sophie's emotional tweet went out on Tuesday evening, before Kit filmed his scenes, so I'm guessing whatever wrapped had nothing to do with him.

I can only speak for myself, but since Jon's already died is no bfd to me if he dies again.  Not that I wouldn't rather see him make it but it would just be like 'oh well' ... I mean we already processed it once as an audience.  

I'm not terribly involved the  discussion, with just more ft to lurk more than post, so maybe you didn't mean me ... but that's a viewpoint for you.  Dany only death = Jon first death but > Jon second death.

And I'm a yuge Jon Snow fan! But who hasn't thought about his first death and shivered a little thinking he's still a goner one day.  Dany dying would still surprise though.

Sorry too, to edit this in, but I can't resist asking, 'Or What?' When you say if Dany dies Jon had better die too.  

Lemme guess, you'll break your TV?  You'll picket outside GRRM's house?  Organize a million nerd march on the HBO headquarters?  ....?

Edited by TarotQueen
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NCW did an interview recently where he was asked to sum up S8 in three words. His first choice was "surprising," "enormous," and "heartbreaking." Then, when he was reaching for another three words, he said "satisfying," "shocking," and again "heartbreaking."

Peter Dinklage also used the word "heartbreaking" to describe S8, although in context he may have been talking more about the experience of filming the last season rather than the last season's content.

NCW also said that it took them 73 days to film one of the S8 episodes this year. It must be the Winterfell battle episode, right?

28 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I guess I’m the lone person who is not convinced that Dany and Jon die. Oh well. I will be that lone voice ? I am an island. They live Dammit!! They live!!

Well, they could, who knows? If the scene shot is an action scene, maybe everyone who's there dies in a wildfire explosion or a mass Unsullied attack or whatever and Jon and Dany are the only survivors of the lot, heh.

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What ending you think would get better response from fans and GA? Dany and Jon ruling together or them dying together? 

Edited by nikma

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53 minutes ago, domina89 said:

She has always wanted her house with the red door so maybe she has some realization that what she really wants is not to be a conqueror.   

The house with the red door, and the occasional pangs Dany has for a simple life, have never been mentioned in the show.  It would be quite out-of-nowhere to bring that up at the very end.

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20 minutes ago, nikma said:

This show started with Ned's death. It would be powerful IMO to end it with Jon and Dany's death. I'm still not sure that this is going to happen, but these informations from Spain made me think about that possibility.

It be quite bitter sweet, saves the realm, possibly dies not knowing his parents or seeing his child born.

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It would break my heart, but I can live with either Dany or Jon dying I think. Both of them though...it seems to bleak for me. It doesn’t seem bittersweet, it just seems sad and horrible. Especially if Dany is pregnant . It seems like I would have wasted 8 years of my life investing in these people for both of them to die tragically. Maybe that seems bold and poetic  or groundbreaking to some people but to me it just seems shitty. So I refuse to accept it until I have irrefutable proof.

Edited by GraceK
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1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

If Dany dies, Jon had better fucking die with her.

Bwah!

 

1 hour ago, GraceK said:

I guess I’m the lone person who is not convinced that Dany and Jon die. Oh well. I will be that lone voice ? I am an island. They live Dammit!! They live!!

I like your optimism. I want to stand with you.

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I suspect that part of the Seville filming is Jon's funeral.  I don't think that it is some Great Council to pick a new leader.  I believe that if Jon and Dany dies (and according to the filming in Seville it seems likely) that the Iron Throne or one ruler of Westeros will be no more.  I also suspect that King's Landing does burn down.  Most of the people there are on Team Jon/Dany (except for the Faceless Men and maybe the Iron Bank). 

I also suspect that this is why GRMM is releasing Fire and Blood before Winds.  I think that more people would rather read Winds and ADOS rather than have Fire and Blood (at least I do).  If GRMM is not having a Targ restoration than it would make sense to give them a glorious past and delve into their history.  Of course I have no clue what's going on in his mind and its pure speculation on my part.

I speculate that Melisandre's visions are correct except that they didn't pertain to Stannis but were about Jon and Dany.  I believe that their child is the Prince that was Promised and that is why Melisandre wanted Dany to meet Jon.  I think that Dany will make a self-sacrifice and kill her and her child to save the realm (Maybe Dany is Azor Ahai and the child is her NIssa Nissa).  I don't think it will be an easy decision for her but Dany is a hero and selfless and will think about other people over her own selfish needs.  I think that if Dany dies she will die as a hero.  If Jon dies I think the circumstances will be different but it will also be selfless and him thinking about other people over his own selfish needs. 

I speculate that the last OMG moment involves Rhaegar and that he knew that the Targ line will end by saving the realm.  Rhaegar did film this season.  I speculate to end the Long Night that sacrifices would be made.

The above are based on some assumptions that I made.  It seems more bitter than sweet to me.  I would rather have a Targ restoration because there has already been so much tragedy in the series so far and team good guy needs more wins.  And I still don't think its definitive that they die, and I am coming up with a reason on why I think they die that would make some sort of sense.  If Dany and Jon die they would die as heroes.  I can accept Jon and Dany dying and no Targ restoration.  But I would love to be proven wrong.  I want Jon and Dany to rule and be a family with their cute babies.

And if Jon and Dany and baby dies how can the ending be bittersweet.  it seems more tragic to me.  Who would get a sweet ending.  Everybody on Team Jon/Dany will be affected by their deaths. 

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24 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Bwah!

 

I like your optimism. I want to stand with you.

I'm a straddler LOL

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You know what would be really funny? Everyone considers GRRM to be this big breaker of Tropes and that because of it, his endgame can’t possibly be happy. People keep pointing to the fact that Ned died and the red wedding as proof that he loves misery and screwing with fantasy expectations so of course, the ending to this series MUST be devastating on some level and and subvert our expectations.

Except that everyone’s expectations are pretty much that the ending is gonna be a downer on some level and that the good guys can’t possibly  have a happy ending. So really, wouldn’t a true subversive ending for this series be if Jon and Dany actually survive a la Aragorn and Arwen? ????

Maybe a happy ending is the biggest twist of all!!! ?

Edited by GraceK
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I just find it interesting that one mainstream fantasy story could end with the main characters dying to save the world. Harry Potter didn't do that. LOTR either. Hunger Games, MCU, the Dark Knight trilogy, Star Wars,...

It would be something different. But I still don't think that will happen. 

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1 hour ago, SeanC said:

The house with the red door, and the occasional pangs Dany has for a simple life, have never been mentioned in the show.  It would be quite out-of-nowhere to bring that up at the very end.

Perhaps the house with a red door itself, but the idea is not out-of-nowhere.  Dany seemed really happy in her domestic situation with Drogo anticipating the birth of her child; she was devastated when her family was taken away from her.  In the HOTU, her greatest temptation is that simple life with Drogo and her son- only her children crying for her pulls her away.  I think there have been hints all along that Dany might yearn for a simpler life.  She wants to do the right thing for her people, but if something happens to turn the people against her, I could see her leaving them behind and pursuing that life.

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13 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Except that everyone’s expectations are pretty much that the ending is gonna be a downer on some level and that the good guys can’t possibly  have a happy ending. So really, wouldn’t a true subversive ending for this series be if Jon and Dany actually survive a la Aragorn and Arwen? ????

 

I think the last big tragic moment happened in S5, when Jon died. But he then came back in S6. 

S7 didn't feel at all like Empire strikes back, Deathly Hallows - Part One, Infinity War,... You know that "darkest before the dawn" feeling that those penultimate instalments had. Quite the opposite, I had a feeling that things were overall getting better and better for protagonists in S6 and S7. Jon and Dany surviving and ruling would be a logical  culimantion of that trajectory, not true subversive ending IMO. 

Ned's death and RW are in the distant past now and the story feels far more conventional.

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2 minutes ago, nikma said:

I think the last big tragic moment happened in S5, when Jon died. But he then came back in S6. 

S7 didn't feel at all like Empire strikes back, Deathly Hallows - Part One, Infinity War,... You know that "darkest before the dawn" feeling that those penultimate instalments had. Quite the opposite, I had a feeling that things were overall getting better and better for protagonists in S6 and S7. Jon and Dany surviving and ruling would be a logical  culimantion of that trajectory, not true subversive ending IMO. 

Ned's death and RW are in the distant past now and the story feels far more conventional.

I agree. I think this idea of GRRM as this big trope subverter is overrated. I think at the end of the day this is a pretty epic fantasy story and I think that it will not end in high tragedy of the sort of Dany sacrificing her baby or dying on childbirth or both Jon and Dany dying. I’m not on board with that idea and I will hold on to that until I get irrefutable proof otherwise!! ?

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2 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I agree. I think this idea of GRRM as this big trope subverter is overrated

That's true. But the problem is he is still trying to embrace that reputation. His comments about orcs from LOTR are just creating confusion in the fandom. He is implying that the WW are not just evil monsters, but it is clear from the show that they, more or less, are. So he constantly builds this false expectations that anything can happen, that this story is something completely different from other fantasy stories and so on. But at the end of the day his story is conventional.

He was just good in hiding  the true protagnosts in the first few books. But now D&D take all the blame in the fandom and GRRM is still playing this false trope subverter role.  Sigh. 

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29 minutes ago, GraceK said:

You know what would be really funny? Everyone considers GRRM to be this big breaker of Tropes and that because of it, his endgame can’t possibly be happy. People keep pointing to the fact that Ned died and the red wedding as proof that he loves misery and screwing with fantasy expectations so of course, the ending to this series MUST be devastating on some level and and subvert our expectations.

Except that everyone’s expectations are pretty much that the ending is gonna be a downer on some level and that the good guys can’t possibly  have a happy ending. So really, wouldn’t a true subversive ending for this series be if Jon and Dany actually survive a la Aragorn and Arwen? ????

Maybe a happy ending is the biggest twist of all!!! ?

Honestly, I thought S7 was pointing pretty strongly towards Jon and Dany having a kid and ruling together, but the Seville news--if it means what I think it means--has called that into question.

Thanks to watching a lot of TV, I have a decent track record when it comes to predicting endgame ships on shows***--I had a nagging feeling that Barney and Robin were doomed, and I knew that Stan and Peggy were going to end up together even though the actors involved swore up and down it was strictly platonic (lies!)--but predicting endgame plot twists is not my strong suit.

With that said, I got a vibe from the whole Dany burning the Tarlys thing, just in the way that D&D spoke about it, that we're not supposed to be terribly invested in Dany as the endgame queen. Doesn't mean that she'll die, but I don't get the feeling that she's being set up as the final ruler. My track record on such things is lousy, though, so grain of salt.

***which is why all the Tyrion/Sansa show-only stuff set off alarm bells for me.

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But if this Seville news is not what we think it is.... What is happenig then? Any idea? 

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8 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

***which is why all the Tyrion/Sansa show-only stuff set off alarm bells for me.

You think they may conspire against the others?

Or they are the end game couple.

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58 minutes ago, nikma said:

I think the last big tragic moment happened in S5, when Jon died. But he then came back in S6.

 

Hodor and Viserion say hi ;) (Not main characters, but few didn't ugly cry and one of those deaths had huge consequences)

I think it's way too early to deduce that Jon, Dany, or Jon/Dany die. Seriously.

I notice that the first words that came to Isaac about the end were "some people will complain it's too happy", before "too sad". On the other hand the "Lannisters", Peter and Nikolaj, are those who used the word "heartbreaking". My money would be on Jaime killing Cersei and dying, for the heartbreaking part. Cersei's is Jaime's other half and no matter how he despises her now, killing her would be killing part of him (I just hope that he won't kill Cersei because she has Brienne killed. Argh). And Tyrion would lose the only person who loved him from the start.

There could be other explanations for the actors being there or not. It could be that Dany is giving birth during those particular scenes (which explains the Gilly/Missandei absence, they'd be midwifing). It could also be that everyone found refuge in KL, because the AoTD made a mega scourging of all Westeros, and is waiting for the last assault; the Targs will arrive on their dragons. It could be yet another reason or timeline that no one thought about because we don't have the plot outlines or even elements of it beyond "battles".

I do think it's possible that the Targs don't rule, which could be coherent with Joe Dempsie's "like upon reflection" words. Yet, I doubt very much he'd think people will like the heroes dying or anything nihilistic. "Accept," "be OK with", "find coherent" etc. But "like"? It seems pretty unlikely a word to me.

Several different scenes were filmed in Seville. Last season, they used the same location for Highgarden and Casterly Rock IIRC. Short of actual pictures of what was filmed, exactly, or costumes, there's no way of knowing what exactly took place.

I'm not sure that D&D will actually film different endings, but I wouldn't put it past them to have used the Solo promotion window to film the particular scenes where Dany (and Jon) weren't needed in order to muddle things up. The actors didn't hide at all, contrasting with the general secrecy surrounding the season.

Edited by Happy Harpy
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Advisory: This topic is for S8 Spoilers & Spec. If your post predominantly concerns book comparisons or a character's past season actions it will be removed. 

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