Criminal Minds Analysis: Profile The Show

[MMC]

• The Job_(1.3) (3,932,000)
• The Witness_(1.3) (3,880,000)
• Til Death Do Us Part_(1.2) (3,656,000)
• Outlaw_(1.3) (3,665,000)
• The Night Watch_(1.4) (4,178,000)
• Pariahville_(1.3) (3,884,000)
• Target Rich_(1.3) (3,771,000)
• Awake_(1.1) (3,549,000)
• Internal Affairs_(1.1) (3,626,000)
• Future Perfect_(1.3) (3,661,000)
• Entropy_(1.3) (3,920,000)
• Drive_(1.3) (3,725,000
• The Bond_(1.2) (3,642,000)
• Hostage_(1.2) (3,688,000)
• A Badge And A Gun_(1.2) (3,754,000)
• Derek_(1.3) (3,772,000)
• The Sandman_(1.4) (3,995,000)
• Beautiful Disaster_ (1.3) (4,244,000)
• Tribute_(1.1) (3,661,000)

So I have posted a partial chart of the L+7 dvr numbers. The first number shows how much of an increase there was in the 18-49 demo.And of course the second number shows how much of an increase there was in overall viewership.Now the reason I felt compelled to do this was because of something I saw over at the IMBD boards.And I just could not let it go unanswered.However I don't post over there so I felt this was the next best place.

Anyways here is what was said,"As a matter of fact the Network's coveted Live plus 7 day ratings actually went UP from previous episodes,on the episodes,Matthew was missing from" Now am I the only one who feels that the numbers do not back this statement up at all.In fact if anything they actually show the opposite of what this person tried to claim,at least in regards to 2 of the 3 episodes Matthew was missing from.What do you guys think.Do you agree.I'm pretty sure I have not misread those numbers,but it will still be nice to get the opinions of others.

Edited April 29, 2016 by MMC

[ReidFan]

pretty much agree. (lol, i post there too)  Awake, easily the worst episode of the season and quite possibly one of the worst ever (certainly in my bottom 5) scored the worst of the year. Internal Affairs second worst (no surprise). And the third, Future Perfect did only marginally better than the other two that I would chalk up to worst of the season-The Bond (pee yeuw!) and Till Death To Us Part (meh).

I think they would have rated even worse had the Reid fans all known in advance that he wasn't gonna be there. The saddest part for me? I only have seven of this seasons episodes left on the dvr, the others have all been scrapped. While some episodes will live forever on my dvr and/or the computer harddrive (I can't do screencaps from the dvr, I need them on the computer to do that), episodes like Entropy, LDSK, Conflicted, Tabula Rasa, Nelson's Sparrow, Mr Scratch, most especially Revelations and now Devil's Backbone to be viewed over and over to the point where I can recite them ; others like most of this season are banished and never to be seen again. And in the case of the three in question, I can't even honestly remember what they were about any more, they were all that forgettably bad.

my bad, I wrote a novel. In short, yes, MMC, those numbers bear you out. The Reidless episodes sucked and were the lowest rated of the season. That oughta tell Messer et al something.

[MMC]

"Awake" was easily one of the worst episodes of the season,if not the worst.These numbers bear that fact out.I also noted that IMDb ranks it near the bottom.

Of course now I don't agree with all those rankings.Because imo there are episodes that should have been ranked much higher while other should have been ranked much lower.But I'd say that the IMDB members were pretty spot on with their ranking of this episode.This episode also holds the honor of having gotten the most votes for "Fail" in the CMRT poll. It got a total of 33 of them."Inner Beauty" came in second place with 25 votes for "Fail" And if I remember correctly "Awake" was the episode where they were trying to push this so called girl power crap.And it seemed as though that was all that was important and it didn't matter what ridiculous scenario they had to come up with in order to push it.Such as a sleep deprived JJ and the newbie,both of whom had just met each other,being sent out on the field by themselves without any sort of back up.Like I said ridiculous beyond words. 

Edited April 29, 2016 by MMC

[ReidFan]

oh yeah, now I remember. thanks a lot :-\  another reason i really frickin' hated that episode. It's funny, I'll usually watch a rerun if there's nothing more pressing on tv. When I realised last night's ep was a rerun, and worse, that it was actually Awake (what a misnomer, I almost fell asleep watching it the one time I did), I opted to watch basketball with my son. (for a few minutes. Then I fired up the harddrive and watched and screencapped Devil's Backbone instead. 52 shots of Reid :) much better :)  (

[MMC]

So I have been looking at the Live + 7 DVR numbers again. And I will just bet that this person was going by overall viewers.And yes if you go by those numbers there is some merit to their claim.Except overall viewership doesn't prove anything.Because the numbers I posted clearly show that there was not an increase in DVR viewership for those episodes where Matthew was absent. Now if one was to go by the demo,well than a case might could be made for "Future Perfect" which got a 1.3 which increased it's overall demo to a 3.2. However that certainly is not the case where "Awake" and "Internal Affairs" are concerned.Both episodes only managed to garner a 1.1 when their DVR numbers were factored in. So "Awake" ended up with a 2.6 in it's overall demo. And "Internal Affairs" ended up with a 2.7.  So as of right now those 2 are definitely the lowest rated episodes of this season.Now I am not saying they have been the least watched episodes of the season so far. That indeed is not the case with "Internal Affairs".As far as "Awake is concerned well it did do marginally better than "Pariahville which makes it only the second least watch episode of the season instead of the least watched of all.

[Old Dog]

When it comes to US ratings I just feel incredibly stupid because no matter how often people try to explain them to me I still cannot really understand how they work! From what you say MMC and the figures you have posted I agree with you and for what it's worth I haunt the CM sites and Awake seems to have been universally condemned as just plain bad and that has nothing to do with Reid being absent.

[Danielg342]

I'm not sure Live+7 numbers mean much...for TV executives, the only number that really matters is the live numbers, that is it. Live viewership is 17 times higher than streaming, plus streaming offers no ads.

Maybe in a decade or two when the Netflix generation comes of age that will be different but for now, I don't put much stock into L+7.

[MMC]

3 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

I'm not sure Live+7 numbers mean much...for TV executives, the only number that really matters is the live numbers, that is it. Live viewership is 17 times higher than streaming, plus streaming offers no ads.

Maybe in a decade or two when the Netflix generation comes of age that will be different but for now, I don't put much stock into L+7.

Once upon a time,no they didn't mean very much.These days it is different though.I know for a fact that Les Moonves CEO of CBS puts a lot of emphasis on them.And I believe that the people over at Fox said something not to long ago that they were no longer going to rely on a show's fate based on the L+SD ratings alone.In fact I highly doubt any TV executive these days are using the L+SD's in that regard.A show would have to be doing exceptionally bad.But usually in cases like that it's not doing all that great in it's DVR numbers either

[ReidFan]

I don't even understand wtf that all means :) L+SDs etc. 

I just know that what I've thought about a show and whether I watch it or not has never meant a damn thing to any of the producers/bigwigs. 

The actors have cared though (I'm referring to past experiences, not necessarily CM)

Edited April 29, 2016 by ReidFan
fixing typo

[MMC]

1 hour ago, ReidFan said:

I don't even understand wtf that all means :) L+SDs etc. 

I just know that what I've thought about a show and whether I watch it or not has never meant a damn thing to any of the producers/bigwigs. 

The actors have card though (I'm referring to past experiences, not necessarily CM)

It stands for a live plus same day ratings. And as long as the show is viewed up until 3 a.m the next day it counts as same day viewership. However none of this is really relevant unless someone is a Nielsen viewer.

[Danielg342]

8 hours ago, MMC said:

Once upon a time,no they didn't mean very much.These days it is different though.I know for a fact that Les Moonves CEO of CBS puts a lot of emphasis on them.And I believe that the people over at Fox said something not to long ago that they were no longer going to rely on a show's fate based on the L+SD ratings alone.In fact I highly doubt any TV executive these days are using the L+SD's in that regard.A show would have to be doing exceptionally bad.But usually in cases like that it's not doing all that great in it's DVR numbers either

I'm not so sure. TV executives could be saying that because they don't want to sound antagonistic against other types of viewership. Truth is, the money's still on the live numbers...that way your viewers actually have to sit through the ads.

[Phoenix Rising]

On 4/29/2016 at 6:54 PM, Danielg342 said:

I'm not so sure. TV executives could be saying that because they don't want to sound antagonistic against other types of viewership. Truth is, the money's still on the live numbers...that way your viewers actually have to sit through the ads.

No longer are Live + Same Day ratings used. Live + Same Day to 3 AM are more or less just a guide for what these other ratings will bear out over the course of their accumulation. Today what counts is the C + 3, C+7 and even the C+30 day ratings ( C = Commercial, also C+30 numbers only go to network heads, they aren't released to the public). It's these ratings that network and studios base commercial sales on. They also base syndication values on these numbers. Several different posters on Twitter ( Calibadger, TVbytheNumber's, The Cancelation Bear, etc.) have explained all the reasonings for this shift on their websites.

With the explosion of Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, On Demand and even internet live streaming the networks have had to change they're thinking about where the money base is, hense why now these other numbers are used. There is also talk amongst those who follow and compile the ratings numbers that 'having' a nielson box will soon no longer matter either as the major TV service provider companies are willing to grant access to their DVR viewing data.

[MMC]

2 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

No longer are Live + Same Day ratings used. Live + Same Day to 3 AM are more or less just a guide for what these other ratings will bear out over the course of their accumulation. Today what counts is the C + 3, C+7 and even the C+30 day ratings ( C = Commercial, also C+30 numbers only go to network heads, they aren't released to the public). It's these ratings that network and studios base commercial sales on. They also base syndication values on these numbers. Several different posters on Twitter ( Calibadger, TVbytheNumber's, The Cancelation Bear, etc.) have explained all the reasonings for this shift on their websites.

With the explosion of Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, On Demand and even internet live streaming the networks have had to change they're thinking about where the money base is, hense why now these other numbers are used. There is also talk amongst those who follow and compile the ratings numbers that 'having' a nielson box will soon no longer matter either as the major TV service provider companies are willing to grant access to their DVR viewing data.

.See now I had always believed the networks already had privy to this info,but for whatever reason chose not to use it when trying to engage the viewing habits of people.If or when this does come to past it will interesting to see how closely the results will or will not be comparable to what they've been getting using the Nielsen system. Would some shows end up doing better ratings wise and vice versa. I know that Nielsen is suppose to be fairly accurate in representing the viewing habits of the American people.However I have always felt that their sample size was way too small in comparison to the U.S. population to get a true representation, despite what the Nielsen people claim.

[Danielg342]

5 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

No longer are Live + Same Day ratings used. Live + Same Day to 3 AM are more or less just a guide for what these other ratings will bear out over the course of their accumulation. Today what counts is the C + 3, C+7 and even the C+30 day ratings ( C = Commercial, also C+30 numbers only go to network heads, they aren't released to the public). It's these ratings that network and studios base commercial sales on. They also base syndication values on these numbers. Several different posters on Twitter ( Calibadger, TVbytheNumber's, The Cancelation Bear, etc.) have explained all the reasonings for this shift on their websites.

With the explosion of Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, On Demand and even internet live streaming the networks have had to change they're thinking about where the money base is, hense why now these other numbers are used. There is also talk amongst those who follow and compile the ratings numbers that 'having' a nielson box will soon no longer matter either as the major TV service provider companies are willing to grant access to their DVR viewing data.

I'm aware that the "C" numbers are the ones that are really important, but I'm not convinced- for now- that anything other than the live numbers are what matters. This from 2014 shows that TV still leads considerably, 141 hours to 11 for streaming, and SpoilerTV's renewal/cancellation guide says that streaming numbers might only help put marginal cases over the top, not save a show destined for cancellation outright.

When it comes to CM, traditional metrics say it should be safe. I'm not sure why the renewal order hasn't come...perhaps CBS wants to move it from Wednesday, or maybe it wants ABC to pick up the tab, since apparently ABC gets more out of the deal than CBS does. Or maybe it's just contracts. I don't know.

[Phoenix Rising]

18 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

I'm aware that the "C" numbers are the ones that are really important, but I'm not convinced- for now- that anything other than the live numbers are what matters. This from 2014 shows that TV still leads considerably, 141 hours to 11 for streaming, and SpoilerTV's renewal/cancellation guide says that streaming numbers might only help put marginal cases over the top, not save a show destined for cancellation outright.

When it comes to CM, traditional metrics say it should be safe. I'm not sure why the renewal order hasn't come...perhaps CBS wants to move it from Wednesday, or maybe it wants ABC to pick up the tab, since apparently ABC gets more out of the deal than CBS does. Or maybe it's just contracts. I don't know.

Going back to 2013 Networks and Nielsen started turning over to the C+3 and C+7 (also known as Live +3 and Live +7)

These quotes  are from Spotted Ratings

Quote

The Live-only ratings, rarely seen in public anymore, measure how many people watched a program as it happened.

The Live+SD ratings, this blog's currency (more on why that is next time), measure live viewing plus a program's DVR viewing until 3:00am local time that night.

The Live+3 ratings measure live viewing plus DVR viewing up to three days later. The networks often put these numbers out in press releases within a week of the airdate.

The Live+7 ratings measure live viewing plus DVR viewing up to seven days later. They're not available till three weeks later. They're the closest thing to a "true popularity" out of what we see from Nielsen.
 

Quote

Commercial Ratings. All of the above numbers measure an average across the full duration of a program. But the reality is that the advertisers who are keeping the TV industry afloat don't really give a damn who's watching the content portions of the program. They just want to know who's watching the ads. So Nielsen also produces commercial ratings, which just measure that. Like with the program ratings, there are live, same-day, three-day and seven-day commercial ratings. The agreed-upon industry standard for setting ad rates is the three-day commercial ratings (also known as C3). But while three-day commercial ratings are the real numbers of importance in terms of determining ad dollars, they're almost never seen in public.

http://www.spottedratings.com/2013/09/intro-to-nielsen-ratings-basics-and.html

Like I said previously, Live Only and Live +SD are not used by networks to judge a show. Those numbers are basically used for public consumption so people  can themselves see how a show is doing. There are many many shows that do not do well in the Live Only or Live + SD ratings 'yet' remain on the air because they do extremely well in the L+3 and the L+7 ratings. The same is said for the reverse.

[ReidFan]

how on Earth does the network know when someone has watched the dvr?! I have episodes on my dvr from reruns aired a year ago (they'll live there forever unless the stupid unit dies on me). And I have, er, HAD episodes on dvr that I never bothered watching and erased without ever watching. And, not that it matters because I'm not in the US and they don't give a rat's ass about us in Canada anyway, but I also DVR every episode regardless of whether I watch it as it airs. 

In fact, I think I like more of the older episodes than I do the newer stuff anyway! :D

[secnarf]

41 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

how on Earth does the network know when someone has watched the dvr?! I have episodes on my dvr from reruns aired a year ago (they'll live there forever unless the stupid unit dies on me). And I have, er, HAD episodes on dvr that I never bothered watching and erased without ever watching. And, not that it matters because I'm not in the US and they don't give a rat's ass about us in Canada anyway, but I also DVR every episode regardless of whether I watch it as it airs. 

In fact, I think I like more of the older episodes than I do the newer stuff anyway! :D

I think they only know if you're a Nielsen household.

[MMC]

9 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I think they only know if you're a Nielsen household.

Exactly! Nielsen viewers have what is called a black box given to them by the Nielsen people.And with that box Nielsen can keep track of their television viewing habits and that includes any dvring they may do.

[MMC]

2 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Going back to 2013 Networks and Nielsen started turning over to the C+3 and C+7 (also known as Live +3 and Live +7)

These quotes  are from Spotted Ratings

Like I said previously, Live Only and Live +SD are not used by networks to judge a show. Those numbers are basically used for public consumption so people  can themselves see how a show is doing. There are many many shows that do not do well in the Live Only or Live + SD ratings 'yet' remain on the air because they do extremely well in the L+3 and the L+7 ratings. The same is said for the reverse.

I remember reading an interview with Les Moonves where he sited Elementary's DVR numbers as helping them make the decision to renew the show.But at that time it was also doing better in it's demo than the 1.1 it is averaging today.And speaking of 1.1 that is what Hawaii Five-0 was averaging this season.Yet despite that both shows got renewed.Which has me believing that CBS must have used some other criteria besides their L+ SD ratings when they decided to renew both shows.

[ReidFan]

lol... too bad we're not a Neilson household. The Bravo, the A&E, the CTV2 and the CTV airings of Criminal Minds would all show in the dvr, and likely in the live watching too. man, would i singlehandedly skew those ratings!

[MMC]

8 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

lol... too bad we're not a Neilson household. The Bravo, the A&E, the CTV2 and the CTV airings of Criminal Minds would all show in the dvr, and likely in the live watching too. man, would i singlehandedly skew those ratings!

Here is the catch though, you would have to be willing to sit through the commercials at first, because fast forwarding them what hurt the show's ratings. Now on the other hand you could actually fast forward part of the show itself and it wouldn't have any effect on the ratings.

[ReidFan]

oh that's okay. when you watch it live, as i do, i can have a few other things on the go at the same time. Commercial's on? Okay, time to move laundry from washer to dryer; empty dishwasher; let dog out/in; fold clothes; decide on dinner; surf ptv; search the internet for the one possible photo of Matthew Gray Gubler I haven't downloaded yet, there must be at least one; etc. 

[Bookish Jen]

Qwerty, I am in amazement of your diligence in researching this information and then presenting it in such a readable and understandable manner. Thank you.

[ReidFan]

what Booky said! Thank you so much qwerty. (and apparently, waaaaaay too much Garcia)

[Droogie]

1 hour ago, ReidFan said:

what Booky said! Thank you so much qwerty. (and apparently, waaaaaay too much Garcia)

Most definitely.  Garcia is like truffle oil -- half a drop (or less!) is more than enough to permeate the entire operation.

(And yes, qwerty, thank you!  Your efforts are admired and greatly appreciated.)

[ReidFan]

nice work qwerty. i'm gonna debate the least words thing though. There are at least 4 episodes where Reid had the least words. The one above where you say he did; plus the three in which he did not appear at all.  (I'm still bitter about that...grrrrrr)  O:-)

[secnarf]

This is awesome, Qwerty! Did you tally unsub number of words as well? Since the perception is often that unsub time >>> team time, I would be interested to see how that plays out. Of course, often the unsub doesn't end up saying a whole lot and we just watch them be creepy, so maybe it wouldn't be reflected in the stats.

I was surprised for season 11 how evenly the words were distributed amongst the team members. I wonder if that is a reflection of how interchangeable they are, and the typical method of exposition and profile delivery (i.e. each team member gets a line).

Edited May 27, 2016 by secnarf

[MMC]

16 hours ago, qwerty said:

Thank you!!

Now, some Season 11 statistics.

Total words said by the team: 71048
Average amount of words by the team in each episode: 3229.45

Average amount of words by each character per episode
Emily:     1307.00 words 
Morgan:   612.00 words 
Garcia:     553.59 words
Spencer:  510.40 words
Rossi:      463.72 words 
Hotch:     432.59 words 
Tara:        366.68 words
JJ:           342.31 words 

Most vs Least
In 5 episodes Garcia had the most words
In 5 episodes Morgan had the most words
In 4 episodes Spencer had the most words
In 2 episodes JJ had the most words
In 2 episodes Rossi had the most words
In 2 episodes Tara had the most words
In 1 episode Emily had the most words
In 1 episode Hotch had the most words

In 5 episodes Hotch had the least words
In 4 episodes Rossi had the least words
In 4 episodes Tara had the least words
In 3 episodes JJ had the least words
In 3 episodes Morgan had the least words
In 2 episodes Garcia had the least words
In 1 episode Spencer had least words

If anyone wants any character specific statistics just ask! I have them ready to be posted, but didn't want to spam this forum. 

The problem for me though as a Reid fan, while he may have had more to say than JJ, a lot of what he did say had little to no substance at all i.e.the useless wiki facts Reid would often quote.As oppose to JJ who although she may have had less to say than Reid what she was given,at least for the most part, had more substance to it. What I just said is be no means exclusive to season 11 alone.

[ReidFan]

in a similar vein, but not taking nearly as much time to compile as qwerty obviously put into her excellent work:

number of episodes in which Reid was gorgeous: all of them, even the ones he wasn't in.

number of episodes in which Reid is the best thing since sliced bread: 19 (20 if you count the one where Rossi found it necessary to call him in Vegas to ask something)

number of episodes in which Reid is darn cute: 19.

number of episodes in which Reid completely steals my heart: every single episode ever made.

(etc etc)

[Bookish Jen]

19 hours ago, ReidFan said:

in a similar vein, but not taking nearly as much time to compile as qwerty obviously put into her excellent work:

number of episodes in which Reid was gorgeous: all of them, even the ones he wasn't in.

number of episodes in which Reid is the best thing since sliced bread: 19 (20 if you count the one where Rossi found it necessary to call him in Vegas to ask something)

number of episodes in which Reid is darn cute: 19.

number of episodes in which Reid completely steals my heart: every single episode ever made.

(etc etc)

Aww, this is so sweet. And true.

My friend Nora isn't into crime procedurals so CM isn't her jam, but she has seen a few episodes to find out why a character like Dr. Spencer Reid is such a touchstone to me. Sure, on a superficial level she knew initially it had to due with Matthew's God-given looks. He definitely won the genetic lottery (rat bastard, as I lovingly put it). And she also made note of Matthew's talent as an actor.

But most of all she talked about Spencer as a character, and why he means so much to me. Nora commented on his introverted nature and how it connected with my very own. She mentioned his love of books, his pursuit of educating himself (both formally and informally), his curious nature, and his commitment to his vocation. But most of all she praised his deep well of empathy and kindness and his need to be needed. She knows these are qualities I have, and that I appreciate in others, whether they are real people or fictional characters.

On-topic: "I know I'm just a dreamer but I'm not the only one," as John Lennon wisely sang, but I hope next season there is a increase in percentages for Spencer. I want to see more of that lovely shade of lilac on Qwerty's charts.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Bookish Jen

[amensisterfriend]

Reviving this thread because I'm rewatching S4 and am brimming over with 'bests' because, while my order changes a bit depending on whether I feel like watching Gideon/Elle or Prentiss/Rossi, overall S4 is still my favorite.  I wish I could pinpoint why I think that season works so well---more to the point, I wish the writers could pinpoint it so that they could apply that magic to subsequent seasons :) It's not like there's a clear unifying theme in S4 (though nature vs nurture seems to pop up a lot in both the cases and their lives, however subtly!), but nearly every episode is just so well-crafted, satisfying and endlessly rewatchable. They're thought provoking and resonant but with just enough warmth and hope to keep them from feeling too relentlessly bleak and grim. So what are your very 'best' S4 episodes/scenes?! Worst? 

[ReidFan]

best season four (indeed, one of my overall favourites) Amplification. Love it, love it, love it. Also very fond of Instincts, Memoriam, Minimal Loss, Conflicted. Liked several others but not quite as much as the five mentioned, liked scenes from a few others, disliked Demonology, Pleasure is my Business and absolutely hated, despised, loathed To Hell and Back.

Season four had (mostly) good writing to it, a lot of the episodes centered around the team rather than Unsub of the Week. There was some CM trademark icky gore, but a lot of really good character moments. (Even in episodes like Pleasure which I didn't like, there were a few awesome Hotch moments in that one, Demonology which I hated had  a few lovely Prentiss moments in it) The only episode of the entire season (actually the entire SERIES) which I absolutely detest and will not watch again was To Hell and Back for the absolute garbage shit awful (yes, i used a bad word !) research and writing in that one. Coulda been great, but instead, no, they effed up the entire premise with that horribly researched and written take down at the end. Too bad.

Best of season four: Amplification--just an all round well written awesome episode, and Reid centric to boot. Followed by Conflicted, Minimal Loss, Memoriam and Instincts. For all the wonderful character moments in them. For the writing of Reid as an intelligent human being, not a statistics spouting adolescent, not once was he eye-rolled at or shrugged at dismissively by his team members. Loved the Prentiss/Reid moments in ML; loved the Morgan/Reid moment in Instincts. Loved how Rossi and Morgan stayed behind to help their friend in Memoriam. And Conflicted, omg, the acting in that.......<3 

[normasm]

Can't add anything to your post, Reidfan, (although I disagree with some of your likes/dis), but just want to echo your statement:

"For all the wonderful character moments in them. For the writing of Reid as an intelligent human being, not a statistics spouting adolescent, not once was he eye-rolled at or shrugged at dismissively by his team members."

Yessssss

Edited August 2, 2016 by normasm

[amensisterfriend]

Another thing I love about S4 (and most of the earlier seasons in general) is that the stuff we learned about the profilers and their relationships with one another seemed to stem more naturally from the cases they encountered rather than awkwardly inserted, clunky WE ARE FAMILY moments that feel forced to me and ironically, make the dynamics among the group seem a lot less interesting to me than ever before.  I feel like back in S4 more was implied about these characters while less was explicitly stated, like the writers were more skillfully dropping clues and trusting their audience to make inferences as they saw fit, and it made for a much more intriguing feel for me. I was even able to fanwank JJ in a way that totally works for me---why she's reserved/detached despite her apparent friendliness, etc----and have to admit that the scene where she asks Reid to be Henry's godfather remains one of my favorite moments of the series.  

My five favorite S4 episodes (and, argh, it is very hard to pick just five!): The Instincts, Masterpiece, Zoe's Reprise,  Conflicted, A Shade of Grey...and at least 7-8 more :) 

The five S4 episodes I'm most likely to skip: Paradise, Brothers in Arms, Roadkill, To Hell...and Back

But that's just me...and S4 is so consistently good that I can totally see people loving even the episodes that are comparatively low on my list :) 

And now I have to name my five favorites and least favorites from every season because I'm compulsive in ways that the team totally needs to profile! 

[Old Dog]

I agree with much of what everyone thinks - my favourites are Amplification, Minimal Loss, The Instincts/Memoriam and I have a soft spot for Soul Mates because I love the scene where Morgan asks Reid if he is sure and Reid gives Morgan that look! I'm most likely to skip Brothers in Arms and To Hell and Back (although we have seen worse finales than To Hell & Back!). Paradise gives me the heebie jeebies because that unsub is Wesley Crusher gone bad for Heaven's sake! I also enjoy Mayhem, The Angel Maker and scenes from many others. I agree that back then they showed the team as family with a subtle and believable hand at the writing - not the rubbishy Disney "Family" crap we get now. Definitely my favourite season but Season One is a close second for me.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

5 hours ago, ReidFan said:

Season four had (mostly) good writing to it, a lot of the episodes centered around the team rather than Unsub of the Week. There was some CM trademark icky gore, but a lot of really good character moments. (Even in episodes like Pleasure which I didn't like, there were a few awesome Hotch moments in that one, Demonology which I hated had  a few lovely Prentiss moments in it) The only episode of the entire season (actually the entire SERIES) which I absolutely detest and will not watch again was To Hell and Back for the absolute garbage shit awful (yes, i used a bad word !) research and writing in that one. Coulda been great, but instead, no, they effed up the entire premise with that horribly researched and written take down at the end. Too bad.

Prefacing this by saying that even playing a character who is paralyzed from the neck down, Garrett Dillahunt exudes both menace and creepiness, I mostly agree with this assessment. I do like Hotch's voiceover at the end - mulling over the consequences for not only the final abductee but for the community at large and for the team is an interesting juxtaposition for Foyet's ambush and the consequences of that - but sadly there's not enough logic in the episode to provide enough backing for the weighty thoughts at the end of the hour.

[ReidFan]

I have to admit what I hated about to hell&back is a personal thing for me. I'm a Canadian, and the wife of an Ontario police officer (not the service in this episode, but still) and I really really REALLY resented the implication that the Ontario Provincial Police are a bunch of trigger happy gun toting cowboys. They are NOT like that. Beyond all the geographical and jurisdictional errors the 'researchers/writers' of this drek episode made, there is just no effing way that Ontario trained police officers would shoot up the obviously mentally ill and apparently disarmed or unarmed unsub the way that was portrayed. I just cannot forgive the bullshit of this episode.

 

the ONLY episode that has ever included Canada as the locale, and they effed it up so freakin' badly. 

[normasm]

Yeah, RF, and it was such a cliche ending!!!

[Bookish Jen]

5 hours ago, normasm said:

Can't add anything to your post, Reidfan, (although I disagree with some of your likes/dis), but just want to echo your statement:

"For all the wonderful character moments in them. For the writing of Reid as an intelligent human being, not a statistics spouting adolescent, not once was he eye-rolled at or shrugged at dismissively by his team members."

Yessssss

I cannot agree with this statement enough! I think this needs to be etched in stone and given to every CM writer to remind them why Reid fans (the intelligent ones) like him so much (or at least his earlier incarnations).

[smoker]

my favorite episode is Omnivore, hands down and there are plenty of scenes I love too.

Later, I'll include other episodes I love, I can't check the titles right now, sorry.

Episodes I don't like: paradise, masterpiece, brothers in arms, demonology, to hell... and back.  Of course I would save some scenes, but I hate these stories and/or the way they are written.

[SSAHotchner]

On 8/2/2016 at 8:40 AM, amensisterfriend said:

Reviving this thread because I'm rewatching S4 and am brimming over with 'bests' because, while my order changes a bit depending on whether I feel like watching Gideon/Elle or Prentiss/Rossi, overall S4 is still my favorite.  I wish I could pinpoint why I think that season works so well---more to the point, I wish the writers could pinpoint it so that they could apply that magic to subsequent seasons :) It's not like there's a clear unifying theme in S4 (though nature vs nurture seems to pop up a lot in both the cases and their lives, however subtly!), but nearly every episode is just so well-crafted, satisfying and endlessly rewatchable. They're thought provoking and resonant but with just enough warmth and hope to keep them from feeling too relentlessly bleak and grim. So what are your very 'best' S4 episodes/scenes?! Worst? 

Pleasure is My Business - Love, love LOVE Hotch in this one, and I actually do feel sorry for Meghan, the unsub.

The Angel Maker - again because of Hotch.

Zoe's Reprise - Zoe is my favorite victim.

Masterpiece - smart Reid and while I can't stand Jason Alexander in this I love it when Rossi gets him at the end and says when they pull the switch on him, he's going to lean in and tell him to say hello to his scumbag brother. 

Also like The Instincts, Memoriam, Amplification, 52 Pickup and Conflicted. All are good Reid eps and Prentiss is fun in 52 Pickup.

[normasm]

I'll also say I for one liked the way they brought Jordan in to sub for JJ. It gave the writers an excellent opportunity to re-focus attention on what makes the BAU special, how hard the job is, etc. By seeing it through Jordan's eyes, especially when she messes up or feels inadequate, we think even more highly of the whole unit. Plus Meta Golding (sp?) was just pretty to look at, and not a bad actress, IMO.

Edited August 4, 2016 by normasm
I don't know how to spell her name

[amensisterfriend]

Definitely my favourite season but Season One is a close second for me.

 

You know that now I need to know how everyone would rank the seasons from your very favorite to least favorite with no ties allowed, right?! And before I figure out my list, this is where I warn you guys in advance that I like S7 much more than normal CM fans do :)

[Old Dog]

Gosh how many times have I ranked the seasons now!! Yet it does change depending on how I feel when I rewatch certain episodes. As I sit here now my order is:=

4, 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 10, 8, 7, 11, 9.

Season 9 is damned for all eternity for the ruination of the 200th episode and for shoving JJ down my throat at every turn to the detriment of the others - but 11 was pretty consistently bad and missing Reid.

[autumnmountains]

For me. . .4, 2, 3, 1, 5, 10, 8, 6, 11, 7, 9. 

Like Old Dog, 200 was an absolute disgrace and singlehandedly caused season nine's last place ranking. 7- was the beginning of the Ninja Barbie, which, for me, is unforgivable. 11- loved Entropy, and Devil's Backbone , but many episodes were weak. Didn't care for Reid not being in 3 episodes, but by far, the worst of the Reidless episodes was Awake and his teammates turning into bullies. 6 - the dominoes were being set for season 7 with the girls being gone, and a storyline that was built up.. .and then dropped. 8- can't my favorite character have a HAPPY storyline?!?! 10- some good episodes (loved  A Thousand Suns Nelson's Sparrow, Place at the Table, Hero Worship, Rock Creek Park, Mr. Scratch and Amelia Porter) but also had Forever People and Protection, which were awful. 5- several solid episodes such as Uncanny Valley, Mosely Lane and 100. 1-very solid start for the show, and left room to grow. Every member of the team had a purpose. 3- I didn't like Gideon so I was glad he was gone. Rossi introduced in this season 2-several good episodes, loved Revelations and Sex, Birth, Death. Even enjoyed Profiler, Profiled and I'm not a huge Morgan fan. 4- several good Reid episode but no character was left out to dry. Adored Amplification (and Reid's taped phone message). 

[SSAHotchner]

1 & 4 are tied for first. As time goes by, I love season 1 more and more. 2, 3, 5, 7(even though I hate Beth), 6, 9, 10, 11, 8. I put 11 before 8 because I liked Entropy. There's not a single episode in 8 that I really liked.

Edited August 5, 2016 by SSAHotchner
clarification

[Droogie]

I'm not certain I can do this.

1, 4, 2, 3, 5.

That's the easy part.  But 1, 4, 2, and 3 can and do often switch places in my mind, vying for first.  I loved them all -- a couple of isolated episodes notwithstanding, I can watch these seasons repeatedly and find something new in the episodes each time.  I also unashamedly love Gideon.  There was a beautiful cerebral, grittiness to the show when he was on it.  I don't think Patinkin would've sat still for the way the show changed, either.  Maybe it would've ended sooner (but it would've stayed great).

S5 gets tricky but for the divine 100 and Uncanny Valley, which ratchet it up there.

S9 is dead last, always.  200, Rabid (for the asinine fitness test), The Black Queen...  In spite of other stinkers, I think TBQ is the worst episode ever. I don't know know how any of them managed to film it without bursting out laughing or dying of embarrassment.  I was second-hand embarrassed just watching it.

S10 had some highlights and so did S11.  They might actually follow S5 for me.  S6, 7 and 8 get all jumbled up in my mind but there were some standout episodes.  I just can't forgive Emily's spy arc and subsequent "death," the headaches, Seaver eye-rolling Reid, and the dreadful Zugzwang, and even then I'm probably missing some.

That's it.  That's the best I can do.  No ties, but still wishy-washy.

[amensisterfriend]

I love reading everyone's thoughts! It's so interesting that despite the expected differences of opinion, nearly all of us would rank S1 and S4 as the top two of all 11 seasons, even if not necessarily in that order. One thing that's changed for me is how much more I enjoy and appreciate S5 than I used to...maybe later seasons have made S5 seem a lot better by comparison?! Despite a few clunkers, S5 actually has even more standout highlights for me than S2 and S3, at least for the moment. So my admittedly weird order:

S4, S1, S5, S2, S3, S7, S6, S10. To be honest, I'd probably be fine never rewatching any episodes from the remaining seasons, but since it seems hopelessly lame not to finish answering my own question...S11, S9 and S8. Why do S11 and S9 edge out S8 for me? I honestly can't explain it other than feeling like S9 and S11 had at least a couple of episodes I really liked while S8 didn't...and that I prefer Reid's hair in S9 and S11 to S8, which we know is always a vital criteria to consider ;)  

Edited August 5, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[Droogie]

42 minutes ago, amensisterfriend said:

I prefer Reid's hair in S9 and S11 to S8, which we know is always a vital criteria to consider ;)  

LOL.  Me, too.  Not a fan of S8 hair for some reason.  I actually love S4 hair. Not sure why -- it just really does it for me.

For clarity's sake, though:  I don't think there's anything the man could do to himself physically that would render him unattractive to me.  If he'd had S8 hair for the past 11 years, I'd still find him quite beautiful.

[SSAHotchner]

10 hours ago, amensisterfriend said:

I love reading everyone's thoughts! It's so interesting that despite the expected differences of opinion, nearly all of us would rank S1 and S4 as the top two of all 11 seasons, even if not necessarily in that order. One thing that's changed for me is how much more I enjoy and appreciate S5 than I used to...maybe later seasons have made S5 seem a lot better by comparison?! Despite a few clunkers, S5 actually has even more standout highlights for me than S2 and S3, at least for the moment. So my admittedly weird order:

S4, S1, S5, S2, S3, S7, S6, S10. To be honest, I'd probably be fine never rewatching any episodes from the remaining seasons, but since it seems hopelessly lame not to finish answering my own question...S11, S9 and S8. Why do S11 and S9 edge out S8 for me? I honestly can't explain it other than feeling like S9 and S11 had at least a couple of episodes I really liked while S8 didn't...and that I prefer Reid's hair in S9 and S11 to S8, which we know is always a vital criteria to consider ;)  

I can't find a single episode I like in season 8, but 9 had Gabby and The Edge of Winter, both of which I thought were decent episodes and I also like the finale episodes Angels and Demons.