Criminal Minds Analysis: Profile The Show

[normasm]

Does it qualify for a snuff film? I'm afraid I'm not an expert on the subject. Come to think of it, I'm very HAPPY I'm not an expert on the subject...

 

[Mislav]

Yeah, none of those were really snuff films. By definition, snuff film is a recording of murder specifically made and distributed for profit and/or entertainment purposes.

Also, happy (belated) Halloween to everyone!

[Mislav]

Merry Christmas everyone!

[Annber03]

Merry Christmas :)! Hope you and everyone else celebrating is having a lovely holiday, and to those who aren't celebrating, hope you're having a good day in general. 

[Mislav]

They should revive Criminal Minds a few years from now, with the original cast, and just pretend that everything past season nine finale never happened.

[Mislav]

I'm surprised that Criminal Minds never did an episode based on/inspired by the movie Switchback. In addition to the plot, even the movie's format kind of fits an average Criminal Minds episode.

[Danielg342]

On 2/6/2021 at 4:55 PM, Mislav said:

I'm surprised that Criminal Minds never did an episode based on/inspired by the movie Switchback. In addition to the plot, even the movie's format kind of fits an average Criminal Minds episode.

This Switchback?

There's the movie and a CBC show from the 1980s with the same name.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Danielg342

[Mislav]

On 2/12/2021 at 3:00 AM, Danielg342 said:

This Switchback?

There's the movie and a CBC show from the 1980s with the same name.

Yup, that's the one (the 1997 movie).

Edited February 13, 2021 by Mislav

[Mislav]

I still can't believe the headcanon is (according to the characters themselves and the Criminal Minds Wiki) that The Replicator was the one who called Reid at the phone booth and said "Zugzwang". It implies that a) The Replicator either stalked Maeve too, witnessed her get abducted and decided to call Reid (and if he did, he wouldn't have known where Reid was, because even if Reid and Maeve only talked at specific times of day, Reid used different phone booths), or b) that The Replicator just happened to call Reid right after Maeve got abducted by a completely unrelated unsub.

And that call made Reid think that Maeve was in trouble, so he told the BAU and they started the investigation. Which would mean that Reid was right about Maeve getting abducted, but the call thar made him think that and raise an alarm was actually not connected to Maeve at all, and the two events just happened to coincide perfectly. That's one in a million chance.

I'm still convinced that Diane Turner really did call Reid after abducting Maeve, and that she was the one who said "Zugzwang". And then the Replicator decided to use her taunt against the team later on. I mean, he had already been copying the murders that the BAU solved, might as well take up another unsub's taunt as well (especially since it had such a personal, painful connection to one of the team members). Not sure why nobody suggested that possibility, since it makes more sense than the Replicator calling Reid in the first place. I mean, the guy was, well, the Replicator... doesn't him adopting another unsub's taunt make more sense than him being the one who called Reid after Maeve got abducted in Zugzwang?

[Danielg342]

The Replicator storyline was where I really believe CM's writing went off the rails. It was the first real sign of the issue that would plague CM in its later years- lazy writing that cut a lot of corners with a failed payoff in the end as a result of it.

First, S8 began with a series of easily reproduceable cases. How lucky it must be for a serial killer intent on "replicating" previous murders the BAU encountered that the cases he gets involve people getting physically harmed, like having their mouths sewn shut or their blood literally getting drained from them. Far easier to reproduce than the serial killer who kills women because they remind him of his ex, or the serial killer who abducts kids because he wants "the perfect child" and kills those who misbehave.

I mean, why should the writers put in actual work to make the audience wonder, "are the BAU's cases getting replicated? Or are they letting their imagination get the better of them?" Never mind how implausible such a lucky series of cases would be, and never mind the past trove of cases that The Replicator himself could have gone through to see what he could replicate.

No need for the show to create cases for The Replicator to reproduce. They already had many. Just off the top of my head there was the enucleator in Tulsa from S5, the weirdo in S7 who poured acid on his victims, the guy from S4 who killed cops, the guy in S4 who ran over his victims with his car, the killer in S6 who stabbed his victims way too much, the arsonist in S1, and on and on.

I'm sure I'm missing several, but you get the point.

Then there were all those lucky moments he had in stalking the BAU, like somehow getting himself into the memorial where Derek Morgan spoke (even though Morgan didn't know if he would do it until the day of) or the phone booth thing with Reid.

You're not exactly clever if you're implausible.

Then you get to that weird story in "Carbon Copy" with the accomplice, and, though Scott Grimes nailed the UnSub's portrayal in that episode, I still don't know why the UnSub would agree to go along with The Replicator's plan. He wants revenge? OK, but what did The Replicator do for him?

I don't get it.

Then we get that final swerve where we learn The Replicator really just hates Strauss. Which doesn't make sense as to why The Replicator is just stalking the BAU, since Strauss oversees many other FBI teams. Why wasn't he reproducing those crimes as well?

Lastly, though (and most importantly), was the fact that The Replicator was just a bland, one-dimensional husk that was hard to have any kinds of feelings for. The show thought that just the simple fact he was targeting "our heroes" would be enough to have us hate him but that's not enough. I do believe the show settled on the reasoning that Alex Blake took the spot he wanted on the BAU but that's not enough.

I mean it may have been enough if he was a one-episode baddie...but The Replicator was a season-long guy. He should be a more well-defined, well-formed, well-rounded kind of guy.

We don't need to delve in to his entire backstory but I think we should have explored his animosity towards the BAU- and especially Blake- in more ways than just a one-off line.

...but...

That would have involved putting in work, something the writers of the later years just didn't want to do. Small wonder the payoff went flat.

[Mislav]

On 3/19/2021 at 4:54 AM, Danielg342 said:

The Replicator storyline was where I really believe CM's writing went off the rails. It was the first real sign of the issue that would plague CM in its later years- lazy writing that cut a lot of corners with a failed payoff in the end as a result of it.

First, S8 began with a series of easily reproduceable cases. How lucky it must be for a serial killer intent on "replicating" previous murders the BAU encountered that the cases he gets involve people getting physically harmed, like having their mouths sewn shut or their blood literally getting drained from them. Far easier to reproduce than the serial killer who kills women because they remind him of his ex, or the serial killer who abducts kids because he wants "the perfect child" and kills those who misbehave.

I mean, why should the writers put in actual work to make the audience wonder, "are the BAU's cases getting replicated? Or are they letting their imagination get the better of them?" Never mind how implausible such a lucky series of cases would be, and never mind the past trove of cases that The Replicator himself could have gone through to see what he could replicate.

No need for the show to create cases for The Replicator to reproduce. They already had many. Just off the top of my head there was the enucleator in Tulsa from S5, the weirdo in S7 who poured acid on his victims, the guy from S4 who killed cops, the guy in S4 who ran over his victims with his car, the killer in S6 who stabbed his victims way too much, the arsonist in S1, and on and on.

I'm sure I'm missing several, but you get the point.

Then there were all those lucky moments he had in stalking the BAU, like somehow getting himself into the memorial where Derek Morgan spoke (even though Morgan didn't know if he would do it until the day of) or the phone booth thing with Reid.

You're not exactly clever if you're implausible.

Then you get to that weird story in "Carbon Copy" with the accomplice, and, though Scott Grimes nailed the UnSub's portrayal in that episode, I still don't know why the UnSub would agree to go along with The Replicator's plan. He wants revenge? OK, but what did The Replicator do for him?

I don't get it.

Then we get that final swerve where we learn The Replicator really just hates Strauss. Which doesn't make sense as to why The Replicator is just stalking the BAU, since Strauss oversees many other FBI teams. Why wasn't he reproducing those crimes as well?

Lastly, though (and most importantly), was the fact that The Replicator was just a bland, one-dimensional husk that was hard to have any kinds of feelings for. The show thought that just the simple fact he was targeting "our heroes" would be enough to have us hate him but that's not enough. I do believe the show settled on the reasoning that Alex Blake took the spot he wanted on the BAU but that's not enough.

I mean it may have been enough if he was a one-episode baddie...but The Replicator was a season-long guy. He should be a more well-defined, well-formed, well-rounded kind of guy.

We don't need to delve in to his entire backstory but I think we should have explored his animosity towards the BAU- and especially Blake- in more ways than just a one-off line.

...but...

That would have involved putting in work, something the writers of the later years just didn't want to do. Small wonder the payoff went flat.

Very well said and I agree.

I've been watching the early seasons and even the clothing/fashion looks much better. Everything in new seasons looks so dull, joyless and repetitive, including the characters' clothing and locations. But maybe that is just modern fashion in general, not specific to Criminal Minds. Maybe the 2000s really were the last heyday.

[Mislav]

With all the political turmoil and controversies happening in the US recently, I wonder could some of it serve as an inspiration for a Criminal Minds episode. A protest turns into a riot, several people get killed, the forensic evidence and witness statements are inconclusive because there were so many people there, so BAU is called in to interview the suspects and witnesses and figure out who committed the murders and why (and were they premeditated or a heat of the moment thing). I don't want them to push any specific ideological message, of course (talk about cringey), just to look at the events from psychological and sociological/behavioral point of view. There are so many elements and problems that could be explored from that angle.

Criminal Minds Wiki actually has some pretty good articles on some terrorist/insurgent groups/radicals from both the US and Europe.

https://criminalminds.fandom.com/wiki/The_Red_Army_Faction

https://criminalminds.fandom.com/wiki/The_Symbionese_Liberation_Army

https://criminalminds.fandom.com/wiki/The_Zebra_Killers

Of course, the show has been cancelled, but I wonder will we get another Criminal Minds novel at some point. Or a collection of short stories?

And though the topic is current, maybe it would work better with the original team. (Like pretty much everything else about the show.)

[Mislav]

Happy Halloween, everyone!

[Bookish Jen]

17 hours ago, Mislav said:

Happy Halloween, everyone!

I thought it was Gublerween.

[Mislav]

On 11/1/2021 at 5:18 PM, Bookish Jen said:

I thought it was Gublerween.

LOL This reminded me of how much I like Alchemy... even though many fans don't seem to. I know that it is technically not a Halloween episode (it aired in April), but it feels like one.

It also reminds me of Mosley Lane and Heathridge Manor, which also technically aren't Halloween episodes... but are often considered to be.

Also, Matthew Gray Gubler runs a website called Gublerland... definitely Halloween-y!

[Mislav]

Merry Christmas!

[Annber03]

Merry Christmas :)!

[Bookish Jen]

I hope everybody had the loveliest of holidays. Happy New Year!!!

[Mislav]

On 12/27/2021 at 5:40 PM, Bookish Jen said:

I hope everybody had the loveliest of holidays. Happy New Year!!!

Happy New Year, everyone!

[Danielg342]

One of the scenes I love rewatching is the "Hotchalanche" scene of "Tabula Rasa", because it's greatness holds up to this day. Now, I'm not going to get into another discussion about the scene because we've had plenty of them, but a thought occurred to me thinking about it.

I don't believe the show has ever had an episode where the BAU's profile went wrong, forcing them to reopen a case they thought they had solved.

Sure, we've had an episode where the wrong suspect was arrested based on a faulty profile ("Profiler, Profiled"), but that involved a profile created by a detective untrained in criminal profiling. "Carbon Coby" also dealt with someone getting back at the BAU because he was falsely arrested because of an incorrect profile done by Gideon. "Doubt" also explored somewhat the theme of when a profile led to the wrong guy.

However, none of those cases has ever seen, either on-screen or off-screen, the BAU (as they are constituted at the time of the episode) investigate a case, formulate a profile, arrest a suspect and then go home thinking their job is done, only to be forced to reopen the case at a later date because they arrested the wrong person. The BAU's record- on-screen- is 100%, when, as "Tabula Rasa" showed, it should not be that high.

I mean, I get that a "caught the wrong suspect" storyline isn't a novel concept but I think it might have been fun to explore in full on this show. Criminal Minds seems to often forget that the actions of the BAU would leave real impact on people's lives, not just on the LEOs but on the suspects and the victims they have to deal with. Furthermore, the BAU hardly ever faced any real adversity during CM's run, and the drama of having to deal with the credibility hit after being forced to reopen a case they thought they solved would be pretty intriguing.

I understand why, perhaps, the writers didn't want to explore an episode where our heroes got things wrong, because it's not very "heroic" to be incorrect on something like this. However, 15 seasons in, I think we could have mixed in a few episodes where our heroes don't look quite as heroic. Plus, it is realistic- law enforcement does get its investigations wrong from time to time, and the show should reflect that.

[Mislav]

I'm surprised they never did an episode based on this case. It has a dark, creepy feel kind of similar to The Ninth Gate (Satanism, mysticism, book stealing and some arson), and it would be nice to see the BAU investigate a case that doesn't involve murder for a change. Since the BAU isn't usually involved in auch cases, it could be somebody calling in a favor from Prentiss, or Reid. It would make for a good Halloween episode.

The articles are in Croatian, but they can be easily translated with Google translate.

https://www.24sata.hr/news/sotonist-iz-ugledne-zagrebacke-obitelji-opljackao-je-nsk-ubio-se-i-napisao-vidimo-se-u-paklu-728740

https://www.jutarnji.hr/vijesti/hrvatska/aleksandar-milles-izveo-je-pljacku-stoljeca-nasa-reporterka-radila-je-za-njega-u-videoteci-666-15007916

Edited October 8, 2022 by Mislav

[Grrarrggh]

I wish they'd done where are they now/update episodes, especially when the unsub or victim was a child. 

[Mislav]

Merry Christmas!

[Mislav]

Happy New Year!

[Xeliou66]

On 3/18/2021 at 11:54 PM, Danielg342 said:

The Replicator storyline was where I really believe CM's writing went off the rails. It was the first real sign of the issue that would plague CM in its later years- lazy writing that cut a lot of corners with a failed payoff in the end as a result of it.

First, S8 began with a series of easily reproduceable cases. How lucky it must be for a serial killer intent on "replicating" previous murders the BAU encountered that the cases he gets involve people getting physically harmed, like having their mouths sewn shut or their blood literally getting drained from them. Far easier to reproduce than the serial killer who kills women because they remind him of his ex, or the serial killer who abducts kids because he wants "the perfect child" and kills those who misbehave.

I mean, why should the writers put in actual work to make the audience wonder, "are the BAU's cases getting replicated? Or are they letting their imagination get the better of them?" Never mind how implausible such a lucky series of cases would be, and never mind the past trove of cases that The Replicator himself could have gone through to see what he could replicate.

No need for the show to create cases for The Replicator to reproduce. They already had many. Just off the top of my head there was the enucleator in Tulsa from S5, the weirdo in S7 who poured acid on his victims, the guy from S4 who killed cops, the guy in S4 who ran over his victims with his car, the killer in S6 who stabbed his victims way too much, the arsonist in S1, and on and on.

I'm sure I'm missing several, but you get the point.

Then there were all those lucky moments he had in stalking the BAU, like somehow getting himself into the memorial where Derek Morgan spoke (even though Morgan didn't know if he would do it until the day of) or the phone booth thing with Reid.

You're not exactly clever if you're implausible.

Then you get to that weird story in "Carbon Copy" with the accomplice, and, though Scott Grimes nailed the UnSub's portrayal in that episode, I still don't know why the UnSub would agree to go along with The Replicator's plan. He wants revenge? OK, but what did The Replicator do for him?

I don't get it.

Then we get that final swerve where we learn The Replicator really just hates Strauss. Which doesn't make sense as to why The Replicator is just stalking the BAU, since Strauss oversees many other FBI teams. Why wasn't he reproducing those crimes as well?

Lastly, though (and most importantly), was the fact that The Replicator was just a bland, one-dimensional husk that was hard to have any kinds of feelings for. The show thought that just the simple fact he was targeting "our heroes" would be enough to have us hate him but that's not enough. I do believe the show settled on the reasoning that Alex Blake took the spot he wanted on the BAU but that's not enough.

I mean it may have been enough if he was a one-episode baddie...but The Replicator was a season-long guy. He should be a more well-defined, well-formed, well-rounded kind of guy.

We don't need to delve in to his entire backstory but I think we should have explored his animosity towards the BAU- and especially Blake- in more ways than just a one-off line.

...but...

That would have involved putting in work, something the writers of the later years just didn't want to do. Small wonder the payoff went flat.

Good analysis of the Replicator storyline and I agree it was disappointing in execution, the idea of a season long unsub was interesting but the storyline turned out to be a letdown, and I could never figure out how the Replicator went across the country committing copycat crimes while still having a full time job with the federal government in DC. I don’t expect extreme realism on tv but that just didn’t make sense. But the worst thing about the Replicator arc was how they tried to redeem Strauss and make her sympathetic - I fucking hated that, Strauss was a damn witch the vast majority of the time and I felt nothing when they killed her off. And the implication that Rossi/Strauss were sleeping together made me want to throw up, not only do I not like Strauss and think she had less than zero personality but Rossi would never sleep with someone who had been such a witch to the BAU over the years. Rossi is arguably my favorite character so I really hated that, thankfully it was never mentioned again after the season 8 finale.

I agree with most people that the later seasons are weaker than the earlier ones, but I actually like CM’s later seasons more than a lot of people for the most part. It’s a real shame that they only gave the show a 10 episode final season because they had to cram a lot into that season that should’ve been spread out over the course of a full 20+ episode season and as a result it was weaker. I watched the first 2 episodes of the current CM revival as I found them online for free and thought it was okay but I don’t have Paramount or whatever it’s streaming on and I’m not paying for it and they haven’t put any of the other episodes online since then that I can find.

But yeah the Replicator arc turned out to be a letdown, and I agree the Replicator himself didn’t have much personality, he didn’t make me feel much for him the way I’ve felt either hatred, sympathy or intrigue for a lot of the unsubs.

[wknt3]

On 1/9/2023 at 6:12 PM, Xeliou66 said:

 could never figure out how the Replicator went across the country committing copycat crimes while still having a full time job with the federal government in DC.

I guess you must not follow political news much if you don't think that's plausible...

[Mislav]

Happy Halloween!

[Mislav]

Merry Christmas!

[Mislav]

Happy New Year!

[Xeliou66]

The early CM episodes have been on ION recently - while most of the cases themselves are very good, I find my dislike of Gideon increasing every time I watch his episodes - Gideon was arrogant, rude and condescending towards just about everyone, his personality was just not likable whatsoever, and he didn’t really have a connection with anyone and felt extremely detached from the team. Not to mention he hogged the screentime and it felt like he was shoved down our throats as the main star while everyone else was usually in the background. He’s just a major turn off when watching the show. CM really improved when Rossi came on - Rossi has charisma and a compelling and likable personality and connected with the others, whereas Gideon was just on an island by himself and came off as a rude know it all jerk.  
Seasons 1-2 have plenty of stellar episodes though - the show really got off to a strong start and I liked the variety of cases they dealt with and I liked how they focused more on profiling and didn’t reveal who the unsub was early on as much as they did in later seasons. Also there was less Garcia at the start - I love CM but Garcia is hard to stomach at times, she can really grate on my nerves, she’s only tolerable in small doses.

I don’t know if most others share my opinion of Gideon or not, he seems to elicit mixed reactions from CM fans, but CM became so much better with Rossi IMO. 

[Annber03]

I like Gideon as a character, I think his intensity is an interesting contrast to the rest of the team (and given what all he'd been through pre-canon, it makes sense on that level), and he's a good foreshadowing for the team of what they should avoid becoming/could become if they get too deep into the weeds (and indeed, we've seen all of them have their own dark periods on this show over time - they haven't gotten to Gideon's level completely, but they've sure come close). And he did have some lighter moments here and there, too. 

But yeah, I can also get where his intensity can be a lot for some viewers. And it makes sense he'd get a lot of screen time, 'cause Mandy Patinkin, but still, yes, this is an ensemble show at the end of the day. 

I do agree with you about the cases in those first couple seasons. Season 2 remains one of my favorites - it's the one that got me sucked into checking out this show further. Binged it with a friend when at her place for a weekend once, got hooked, and I came home and caught reruns on TV and the rest was history :D. 

[Xeliou66]

Season 3 has been on ION lately, it’s an awesome season, almost every episode is great. Rossi came on in episode 6, and he’s probably my favorite character, and the BAU team really gelled this season. And there isn’t a weak episode in the season, and some of my all time favorites of CM are in this season - episodes such as Seven Seconds, Lucky, Elephant’s Memory and In Heat - 

Seven Seconds has great twists and great profiling and two evil villains, one of CM’s best episodes.

Lucky has the extremely memorable creepy cannibal unsub and the chilling twist that he fed one victim to the search party. It’s a classic episode and the follow up in season 13 was strong as well.

Elephant’s Memory has a very sympathetic unsub and is a great episode for Reid, I loved when he went off on that spineless school principal and later on the cops, and then talking the unsub into surrendering at the end. It’s a great episode.

In Heat is another favorite, a lot of great profiling and one of the episodes where both victims and unsub were sympathetic. I loved Rossi and Hotch squaring off against the unsub’s homophobic bully dad and the whole investigation was good.

Those 4 are my favorites of season 3 but they are all good - Identity is another excellent episode where they discover the deceased unsub had a partner who was in love with him and carrying on his crimes, Limelight and Damaged are good features for Rossi, A Higher Power is a good case, True Night has one of the most sympathetic unsubs on CM. 
Season 3 is really great all around. 

[Annber03]

Agreed, season 3 is just great from start to finish and is probably my favorite season of the series as a whole. Seasons 2 through 4 in general had some of my favorite/the best episodes of the series. 

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Seven Seconds has great twists and great profiling and two evil villains, one of CM’s best episodes.

The ending of that episode gives me the chills every time. Hotch in that dark room, staring at his son, with the end quote and that eerie piano music...such a haunting way to end a deeply emotional and devastating case. 

Quote

Elephant’s Memory has a very sympathetic unsub and is a great episode for Reid, I loved when he went off on that spineless school principal and later on the cops, and then talking the unsub into surrendering at the end. It’s a great episode.

I also like the girl who plays Owen's girlfriend's friend. I like how Emily and JJ interact with her, and how she was one of few people who seemed to actually give a damn about her friend and Owen, and understood what they were dealing with. 

And yeah, Reid's a pretty mild-mannered guy in general, but when he's pissed, hoo boy, god help you if you're the reason why. Definitely a great episode for him. 

[Danielg342]

I feel in S3 that the main characters displayed their personalities far more than in later seasons, and the show was far more consistent about it then than later. S4 started the trend where the episodes focused less on the characters and- though I still very much enjoyed S4 and S5- that's when things started to go off the rails, since those seasons started the trend of characters simply behaving for plot purposes.