American Ripper

[Nessie]

1 hour ago, ChicagoCita said:

Oh, man, this brought back a few days of grade school Chicago Civics lessons! Every CPS kid learns about this at some point, and usually it gets repeated in high school as well. I can't tell you the scientific details, but it has to do with a series of locks being built, and the Sanitary & Ship Canal being built alongside the River to divert water.  If you've ever read Sara Paretsky, a lot of her books mention the Sanitary & Ship Canal on the South Side. Here's a "lite" version of the explanation.

Thank you for this.  Interesting stuff.

[Pestilentia]

Quote

Also, Jeff Mudgett himself is a bit of a disappointment.  Maybe I'm just shallow, but the way he moves his mouth and enunciates when he talks does him no favors.

IMO his speech is that of someone who had an impediment of some sort as a child and has had speech therapy to work around it. It's distracting but I try to cut him a break just in case I am correct.

What really did annoy me was his apparent expectation that the tiny area Post Office in Chicago would have the authority to allow them to excavate. This property is owned by the Feds and to me that means he would have had to go to Washington and wade through red tape for months if not years in order to find someone with the authority (USPS Board of Governors?) to allow that land to be dug up. Maybe not, but I doubt that anyone in Chicago had the authority to make that call.

And the river bottom depressions- we had three to six feet of sludge that was dredged decades ago. A quick google tells me that "Dredging is being performed using a closed bucket mechanical dredge. The dredged material is loaded onto barges or scows and then moved to the disposal area. Next, dredged material is mixed with water (slurried) that is obtained from the CDF [confined disposal facility], to make a mud-mixture. This slurry is then pumped into the CDF and allowed to settle. As the sediment settles to the bottom, clean water remains at the surface, which can then be recycled for additional sediment placement."

So please explain to me how a river bottom so altered and disturbed would show remnants of concrete dumping over a century later? It makes no sense to me. And if Holmes used a crematory he would have had sense to grind the cremains like any other crematory does so why go to all the trouble with block of concrete that would require far more effort than dumping ground cremains?  Yeah, I know his temperatures could not reach the levels or lengths of a modern crematory but various cultures have been burning bodies since the discovery of fire. To what degree of...  well, done-ness I have no idea and don't really need to see that re-enacted with an animal, but I'm sure there are ways to thoroughly destroy a body by fire.

As far as the show itself, it's light entertainment not a documentary- I expect them to pick and choose and exaggerate and over act. But some elements of it are fascinating, most especially for me the forensic linguists. I guess you can specialize in anything nowadays and it almost makes me wish I was young enough to be choosing a career path.

But like any of these investigative shows (husband is a conspiracy theorist who watches them all so I hear them even if I am not watching), I keep thinking "If this theory had panned out I would have heard about it on the national news."

Edited August 6, 2017 by Pestilentia

[rmontro]

7 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

So please explain to me how a river bottom so altered and disturbed would show remnants of concrete dumping over a century later?

That part made no sense to me either, although I've already pointed out I know nothing about reversing a river's flow.

Yeah, so far I have to say that their case has not been very convincing.  I don't even trust anything they say after that eyewitness sketch, they made it look too much like Holmes, it had to be biased.

[iMonrey]

Quote

So please explain to me how a river bottom so altered and disturbed would show remnants of concrete dumping over a century later? It makes no sense to me. And if Holmes used a crematory he would have had sense to grind the cremains like any other crematory does so why go to all the trouble with block of concrete that would require far more effort than dumping ground cremains?

Well, they are really grasping at straws at this point. As I said upthread, they really didn't have enough material to fill more than an episode or two. There's no real chance they're going to find anything in that river they can tie to Holmes with 100% certainty, and there's zero chance at this point they're going to find anything that proves he was Jack the Ripper. Their best chance was in London if they could have proven he was there in 1888 and that ship has already sailed. 

Looks like there's only one more episode of this though.

[rmontro]

On 8/8/2017 at 2:14 PM, iMonrey said:

Looks like there's only one more episode of this though.

That can't be right, they haven't even got to the part where they dig Holmes up yet.  Not sure what that is supposed to prove anyway.

I was actually stunned that the handwriting analysis proved to be inconclusive.  I expected them to find someone who would say it was a dead on match between Holmes and the Ripper.

[ChicagoCita]

Have to say that last night's episode was a bit of a snooze. When the highlight is a concrete-encased dead pig....

[Ananayel]

I wonder how Amaryllis Fox got mixed up in this. Maybe it's the somewhat monotone quality of her voice, but she doesn't really seem into it, and almost like she's reading a script sometimes. The realest I think I've seen her was when concrete guy told them they were in Al Capone's garage.

[Nessie]

On 8/8/2017 at 2:14 PM, iMonrey said:

Looks like there's only one more episode of this though.

Only one more episode?  I may be able to hang in until the end then.  This show has gotten really interminable, but the worst part for me is the narrator's voice.  It sounds like he needs to clear his throat,  or like the male version of vocal fry to me,  and it's like nails on a chalkboard.  It seemed really bad this last episode...maybe he just had more lines to read, but I got more irritated with every singe one of them.

*grumpy*

[Cherpumple]

Wow, this "investigation" is really going off track, and they're making it more and more difficult to offer any convincing proof of an already tenuous argument. I can understand analysing solid evidence from the canonical crimes of Holmes and the Ripper (physical evidence, witness accounts, handwriting), but why on earth were they pouring over accounts of random murders in New York City??? It was so cringy watching Amaryllis offer some bizarre transitive property argument for this- "if these crimes are proved to be done by the Ripper, and we can prove that Holmes murdered people in NYC, then this proves that Holmes = the Ripper" (paraphrasing). Give me a break, you know that NONE of these things can be proven individually, let alone be used to establish an entire chain of proof. You're better than this Amaryllis! And as much as I enjoyed hearing about the history of the Chicago River, I really can't imagine what physical evidence they are hoping to find. Even on the small chance that they find a body that can be dated to the 1890s, how will they link it to Holmes? The term "wild goose chase" is a massive understatement.

I actually burst out laughing when Amaryllis (I think) stated that if it can be determined that one of the NYC murders was done by Jack the Ripper, this PROVED that the Ripper was American. WHAT???? Are you kidding me? It proves nothing of the sort. The only thing it would prove is that the Ripper had enough time and money to travel from London to NYC within a particularly timeframe. That's it. And this could be accomplished by someone of any nationality.

On a positive note, this show is making me want to read more about Holmes. He seems like a fascinating specimen.

[rmontro]

18 hours ago, Ananayel said:

I wonder how Amaryllis Fox got mixed up in this. Maybe it's the somewhat monotone quality of her voice, but she doesn't really seem into it, and almost like she's reading a script sometimes. The realest I think I've seen her was when concrete guy told them they were in Al Capone's garage.

Career opportunity, I guess.  But how enthusiastic can you expect her to be, when she has to spend all that time hanging around that creepy Jeff Mudgett guy?  He seems like he's just a little too invested in the idea of being related to a serial killer.

[Mabinogia]

29 minutes ago, rmontro said:

He seems like he's just a little too invested in the idea of being related to a serial killer.

Seriously, it's bad enough you're related to Holmes. Now you want to be related to Jack the Ripper too? I mean, sure, he probably just wants to be able to sell books but still. I am quite happy to say that I'm pretty sure I'm not related to any serial killers. My family is quite dull in that aspect.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Wow, this "investigation" is really going off track, and they're making it more and more difficult to offer any convincing proof of an already tenuous argument. 

Yeah, they are grasping at straws more and more as the episodes go by. If they wanted to convince anyone there was even a decent chance Holmes was the Ripper they should have ended it after Episode 2. Once they left London the trail pretty much went cold and now they're just flailing looking at random things, and somehow trying to convince us they're still going to be able to prove this wild theory. 

Quote

Only one more episode?  I may be able to hang in until the end then.

Well, that's what I thought, because IMDB.com only had five listed. Unfortunately, there appear to be more of them. I don't know how long I can hang in there though, because it was a struggle to get through this last one. I was tempted to shut the damn thing off about 10 minutes in. There's just no there there at this point.

[rmontro]

24 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Well, that's what I thought, because IMDB.com only had five listed. Unfortunately, there appear to be more of them. I don't know how long I can hang in there though, because it was a struggle to get through this last one. I was tempted to shut the damn thing off about 10 minutes in. There's just no there there at this point.

I just had a horrifying thought.  You don't think there could be another season of this show, do you?  Like with Hunting Hitler?

[Arynm]

Maybe the show can pivot and focus more on Holmes. He is an interesting character even without the Ripper stuff. There is enough there to fill a show I think. They could just say there is not enough to prove he's the Ripper and move on to the murders he is accused of. Some people say hundreds some say 3. There is a lot of story there.

[Snarklepuss]

15 hours ago, rmontro said:

I just had a horrifying thought.  You don't think there could be another season of this show, do you?  Like with Hunting Hitler?

ROTF, I know, but at least with HH they're finding some convincing evidence of Nazis if not Hitler himself, so I can at least watch it and get that out of it as long as I don't expect them to prove anything about Hitler.  But with this show, there's no "there there" like someone else said.  They're not even giving us enough about Holmes to make it interesting on that alone.

[AZChristian]

I'm re-reading Patricia Cornwell's book on JtR.  If anyone is interested in REAL facts, I recommend it.

[rmontro]

7 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

ROTF, I know, but at least with HH they're finding some convincing evidence of Nazis if not Hitler himself, so I can at least watch it and get that out of it as long as I don't expect them to prove anything about Hitler. 

Oh yeah, Hunting Hitler can be fairly interesting.  If it was called Hunting Nazis it would be great, but I suppose they wouldn't get as many viewers.

[Snarklepuss]

On 8/11/2017 at 11:44 AM, rmontro said:

Oh yeah, Hunting Hitler can be fairly interesting.  If it was called Hunting Nazis it would be great, but I suppose they wouldn't get as many viewers.

I had that thought too.  It's sort of like when I convince myself that Taco Bell is not Mexican food that I find I actually like it, LOL.

[rmontro]

14 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

It's sort of like when I convince myself that Taco Bell is not Mexican food that I find I actually like it, LOL.

Good point.

[Arynm]

Wow! Dogs are pretty amazing aren't they. The dog might be the only one on this show without an alternate agenda and he/she pinged onto some bones in a yard. I can't remember if they said historic human bones or just bones but the dog found something. The coal and matching buttons are interesting for sure. Could be from anything, so I hope they can get some info on the bone fragments. It is all quess work at this time.

[AZChristian]

I just had a chance to watch it.  She did say historic bones, and they were found at the same level as the coal and buttons.  It's the most tangible evidence so far that Holmes may have been involved in anyone's death.

[rmontro]

I definitely thought the best part of this episode was the bone sniffing dog.  I have heard of such animals, but it was pretty fascinating watching him work.

[Duke2801]

21 hours ago, Arynm said:

Wow! Dogs are pretty amazing aren't they. The dog might be the only one on this show without an alternate agenda and he/she pinged onto some bones in a yard. I can't remember if they said historic human bones or just bones but the dog found something. The coal and matching buttons are interesting for sure. Could be from anything, so I hope they can get some info on the bone fragments. It is all quess work at this time.

 

9 hours ago, rmontro said:

I definitely thought the best part of this episode was the bone sniffing dog.  I have heard of such animals, but it was pretty fascinating watching him work.

 

Yes!  The dog was certainly the highlight of the show for me.  So cool to see him (or her?) work like that.

The rest of the show? Meh. They're clearly grasping for straws at this point. I would have given up by now if Mr. Duke wasn't still interested in watching.  Mr. Mudgett's odd, overly-dramatic facial expressions and his "asking" the Holmes "experts" these inane questions that he already clearly knows the answer to (having written a book on him!) are working my last nerve. 

[iMonrey]

It's really frustrating because somewhere buried under a lot of crap is a potentially good show. When they just focus on Holmes and his crimes it's interesting. I liked hearing about Holmes going to Texas, murdering those women for their property, then conning that guy into signing a life insurance policy and then bumping him off. Aside from the mystery of his identity, Jack the Ripper is actually far less interesting than HH Holmes. I wish they had just done a straight-forward documentary about Holmes.

Unfortunately, there's just a lot of tail chasing and nonsensical filler in their desperate attempts to tie Holmes to the Ripper. It's nothing but a lot of dead ends, and the repetition is torturous. They wasted about 20 minutes of this episode talking about concrete blocks that may or not may be in the river and who the hell cares? And what in God's name does any of this have to do with Jack the Ripper anyway? They're not even going to be able to dive for whatever is down there so what was the freaking point? Just to talk in circles about "oh, this may be a concrete block! What do you suppose this might be? It might be a concrete block! Are you saying this could be a concrete block? Yes, I think this could definitely be a concrete block. So what you're saying is that this could potentially be a concrete block? Yes, I think there is a very good chance this is a concrete block. Based on our sonar readings we may have found a concrete block. If we could get to this concrete block it may give us the evidence we need to prove that HH Holmes was Jack the Ripper."
 

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttt????!!!!

[Nessie]

20 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

It's really frustrating because somewhere buried under a lot of crap is a potentially good show. When they just focus on Holmes and his crimes it's interesting. I liked hearing about Holmes going to Texas, murdering those women for their property, then conning that guy into signing a life insurance policy and then bumping him off. Aside from the mystery of his identity, Jack the Ripper is actually far less interesting than HH Holmes. I wish they had just done a straight-forward documentary about Holmes.

Unfortunately, there's just a lot of tail chasing and nonsensical filler in their desperate attempts to tie Holmes to the Ripper. It's nothing but a lot of dead ends, and the repetition is torturous. They wasted about 20 minutes of this episode talking about concrete blocks that may or not may be in the river and who the hell cares? And what in God's name does any of this have to do with Jack the Ripper anyway? They're not even going to be able to dive for whatever is down there so what was the freaking point? Just to talk in circles about "oh, this may be a concrete block! What do you suppose this might be? It might be a concrete block! Are you saying this could be a concrete block? Yes, I think this could definitely be a concrete block. So what you're saying is that this could potentially be a concrete block? Yes, I think there is a very good chance this is a concrete block. Based on our sonar readings we may have found a concrete block. If we could get to this concrete block it may give us the evidence we need to prove that HH Holmes was Jack the Ripper."
 

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttt????!!!!

I wish I could like this post 1000 times!  There is so much filler it's mind-numbing.  I don't really "get" the bit with the dog.  So...Holmes admitted to killing this kid, right?  And to burning his body and scattering his bones in this wooded area that is now this housing development?  So why exactly are they so thrilled to find these bits of charcoal, buttons, and bones in that yard?  It's not like they're going to prove anything...Holmes admitted to killing the kid.  Admittedly, I wasn't glued to the tv...I literally can't force myself to be during this show, but...did I miss something?

[iMonrey]

Well, what they're telling us is that if they can find the vertebrae, and if there are knife marks in them, it would show a similar method of killing that Jack the Ripper used. Now again - this is a real stretch and undoubtedly another dead end. At best they've found bone fragments that will tell them nothing, just like the DNA tests and the handwriting tests told them nothing. They don't need to find "evidence" that Holmes killed this kid because we already know that. They're still pretending this evidence is going to prove he's also Jack the Ripper because . . . reasons.

[mythoughtis]

Why would anyone want to go thru this fake mess of a show? Why would you want your name connected with it as an 'expert'? Why would you want to prove your serial killer ancestor was even worse than you already know? 

 

HH Holmes has been well researched. An actual documentary show about him would have been interesting to watch and done in a believable manner. Still feeling like this is  alien two headed baby unbelievable. 

[Nessie]

Thanks @iMonrey.  That's pretty much what I thought.  Another dead end and waste of all of our time.  They should just let that poor child rest in peace.

I guess we should just be glad they're not trying to "prove" he was actually an English prostitute who was hacked to death....

[iMonrey]

I'd also like to point out that the "re-enactor" they have portraying HH Holmes is far more sinister looking, and far better looking, than the real HH Holmes, as depicted in that one photo they keep showing us. In fact based solely on that photo I'd have to say Holmes looked rather like a dullard. It's hard to imagine anyone taking him seriously. Maybe that worked to his advantage. And what's the deal with this weird "dripping" effect they keep using on all the historical photos they show us? It's like tiny bugs crawling down across the TV screen and it's very annoying. If it's meant to be blood maybe it should be red. It just makes me think there's something wrong with my TV.

[Arynm]

On 8/18/2017 at 0:45 PM, iMonrey said:

In fact based solely on that photo I'd have to say Holmes looked rather like a dullard. It's hard to imagine anyone taking him seriously. Maybe that worked to his advantage.

The first thing that stood out to me when I was reading the book by Adam Seltzer was that Holmes was totally cross-eyed or had a lazy eye (I can't remember which) and because of that he never really looked anyone in the eyes. Seltzer said he would look anywhere else while he would be talking to them. I have no idea how he managed to con so many people when he looked like a shady motherfucker all the time! How he married and slept with so many ladies is beyond me, he must have had something else going on. In the one picture they have of him, I always look at his eyes and one does look a little wonky to me.

[Willowsmom]

So now Holmes escaped hanging and continued to kill for 25 years? I love a good nutty theory but even this is to crazy for me.

This reminds me of the cop that was desperate for his dad to be the Black Dahlia killer. Desperate for a connection to anything famous.

[Ananayel]

This show is so frustrating. A show just about Holmes would still be good! You don't even need to mention Jack the Ripper!

If that recording of Holmes's alleged voice was so delicate, why didn't the guy who played it once and got the transcript hold up a recorder to the cylinder player? Why wouldn't you do that? Dumbass. That kind of makes me side-eye the whole thing, because if he won't let anyone play it, he could have made up the transcript entirely. And surely, with technology now, there's a way (laser imaging, scanning microscope, something) to get an image that duplicates every groove, scratch, bit of dust etc. on these cylinders, and recreate them in a 3-D printer or something.

I think next week is the last episode, but I wouldn't put it past them to try a second season.

[Arynm]

There has to be technology that can get that records real recording. If they can resurrect 100 year old silent movies that are mostly dust, they can do this. Maybe someone watching will have a way to do it and they will get in touch. Next week is the finale and my guess is he is in that grave. Let's hope he is, he did not fake his death and kill for 20+ more years, that's just dumb.

I think it would be awesome if they somehow proved that is is Holmes but Mudgett is not his descendant. I would laugh and laugh. Does anyone know which wife is supposed to be his gg grandmother? He has never told the show his lineage. He really needs to at this point, he just looks crazy

[Ananayel]

I believe Jeff is descended from the first (legal) wife in New England, since Holmes was still using his real name, Mudgett. That would be a great plot twist, except poor Jeff's head may explode!

[mythoughtis]

I also believe the 2nd 'wife' had a daughter by him as their only child so presumably those descendants would have an even different name. 

[rmontro]

14 hours ago, Ananayel said:

This show is so frustrating. A show just about Holmes would still be good! You don't even need to mention Jack the Ripper!

I agree the show would still be good.  I have to confess though, that I would probably not be watching it.  I don't generally like to watch shows about serial killers, I find it unpleasant.  It's only the novelty that caused me to tune in.

7 hours ago, Arynm said:

There has to be technology that can get that records real recording. If they can resurrect 100 year old silent movies that are mostly dust, they can do this.

I'm sure there is a way to do it.  But there's probably no real reason to do it.  Someone would have to spend time, energy, and money on it, and I doubt that anyone cares enough about a cold case this old to do it.  Maybe the History Channel would have made it part of the show if they had thought of it, or maybe it's just not worth the bother.  They probably figure the collector guy is credible enough to take his word on the transcription.

Now Mudgett's bizarre mannerisms are starting to wear off on Amaryllis.  The way she whipped her head around when she heard the testimony about the surgical blades must have made him proud.  She better get away from him before she is permanently damaged, along with what is left of her credibility.

[ChicagoCita]

21 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I'm sure there is a way to do it.  But there's probably no real reason to do it.

My bet is that if the Devil in the White City movie ever gets made and is a hit, someone will pay the guy for the recordings. But this show is pretty low-rent in comparison.

[Arynm]

Maybe if the show gets a second season and they decide to focus more on just Holmes they can get the budget for that. I would watch a show on Jack the Ripper and I would watch a show on Holmes, but they should never try to link them again.

[Mabinogia]

Holmes is far more fascinating without the Ripper angle. Trying to make him the Ripper takes away from his own mythology IMO. Kind of wish they'd never gone there.

[ChicagoCita]

I was trying to look up specifically how Jeff Mudgett is descended from Holmes. I didn't find that, but I did find that the recent exhumation (May 2017) of Holmes' body for DNA purposes was requested by three of his great-great-grandchildren, John, Richard, and Cynthia, all of California. It's very possible Jeff is a nickname for one of the men. If so, he is related to Holmes through his first wife, Clara Lovering. They had a son, Robert. Amazingly, she survived him and lived until 1956, dying at age 96. Interestingly, their son Robert died the same year.

[Ananayel]

According to a Facebook page related to the book Jeff wrote (Bloodstains) :

Quote

The H.H. Holmes (Mudgett) Family Tree: Scribner Mudgett, born 1801 in Gilmanton, NH, Levi Horton Mudgett, born 1827 in Gilmanton, NH, Hermann Webster Mudgett (aka H.H. Holmes), born 1861 in Gilmanton, NH, Robert Lovering Mudgett, born 1880 in Louden, NH, Harold Bertram Mudgett, born 1906 in Hyde Park, VT, Richard Lee Mudgett, born 1932 in Martinez, California, *Jeffrey Lee Mudgett, born 1957 in Oakland, California

Maybe Jeff let the others be the point people for the request, since he was profiting from it and courts sometimes don't like that.

Amazon has some interesting reviews.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Ananayel

[iMonrey]

It's just one dead end after another on this show. First the remains they dig up in the yard turn out to be animal bones, then they spend an entire segment on a surgical blade that Holmes may or may not have owned - no way to know for sure - that was made in London. Gasp! 

You know they've run out of straws to grasp when they have the audacity to suggest Holmes may have escaped his own execution, based on the fact that other "Ripper-style" victims were discovered after he was hanged. I've got news for you, people are still murdered Ripper-style to this day. I hope they're not suggesting HH Holmes is still out there even today and still killing people. 

The most ironic part of this whole episode is that they blew up their entire theory of Holmes being Jack the Ripper and didn't even seem to realize it! After Holmes was arrested he so relished the publicity and notoriety he started claiming to have murdered people who turned out to be still alive. He craved the attention. That being the case . . . wouldn't he have admitted to, or claimed to be, Jack the Ripper himself? Even if he wasn't? I mean, clearly he was eating up all the attention he was getting. Taking credit for murders he didn't even commit. Had he actually been Jack the Ripper that's like the first thing he would have bragged about! And since he wasn't above lying to boost his murder profile he might have even claimed to be the Ripper just for the extra attention. 

The fact that he, himself, never took credit for the Ripper murders or claimed to be the Ripper, seems pretty conclusive proof that there is zero connection between Holmes and the Ripper. 

Case closed.

[ChicagoCita]

31 minutes ago, Ananayel said:

Amazon has some interesting reviews.

Thank you for the family tree, Ananayel. Based on the paperback prices listed on Amazon, I should dig up my book and sell it!

[Nessie]

God, I just can't with this show anymore.  The way Amaryllis perked up when Jeff read that the surgical instrument was made in Sheffield (like...OMG!), the identical way Mudgett perked up when whoever it was said Holmes and his wife were planning on going to London after killing those poor children (well...if that's not proof he's Jack the Ripper, I don't know what is!), it's just ridiculous.  

And then Mudgett being convinced by "The Curse" that Holmes escaped his execution, and Amaryllis being swayed by "Ripper-style killings" in cities Holmes had "connections" to...meaning, cities he had been in at least once?  

I did laugh when they were trying to convince that bone expert to say that there was a chance it was a human bone and she wouldn't give in.  And I actually cheered when they said next week is the finale.

[iMonrey]

I just think it's hilarious they've spent so much time desperately trying to tie Holmes and the Ripper together, only to (inadvertently, perhaps) blow that theory right out of the water by going on and on about how much Holmes relished the attention and notoriety once he was captured. They have completely contradicted their own premise. Surely Holmes himself would have been the first one to brag about being the Ripper. The fact that he made no mention of the Ripper, like, ever, disproves their entire theory. They just rendered the entire series moot. What's worse, I don't think Amaryllis or Jeff are even smart enough to realize it. 

[Ananayel]

I wonder how these type shows find people like Amaryllis, or Tim Kennedy on Hunting Hitler. Is there some sort of talent agency for ex-Special Forces, CIA, etc. people who really want to be on tv and don't care how? These shows trot these people out as though they are paragons of credibility by virtue of their previous jobs, or imply that their previous job makes them able to instantly suss out frauds and shenanigans (which is at least plausible for some, but if your paycheck depends on you NOT doing that, well...)

[mythoughtis]

Amaryllis at least truly doesn't know much about Holmes or Jack, while Jeff knows a lot more than he is saying. His set up questions to get 'experts' to talk make it sound as if he's never heard of Holmes before. Only to then state some fact about Holmes that shows he already knew the answer to his own question. 

[Arynm]

It was him! I can't believe I am saying this, but I think I need another season. Lets do a facial reconstruction and really look at those bones and find out everything we can about him.

I also can't believe the lengths the prison went to to make sure that he was buried according to his crazy wishes. He was buried like 10 feet down! That is a lot of work, especially if they had no large machinery.

In other random thoughts I had while watching this show, Lincoln was also covered in concrete after he was buried. I always thought that was the end of any investigation into his murder and/or ailments he might have had, but this has changed my mind. In one part of the grave the concrete had never set and was like clay, in the other the concrete set but wasn't covering his body like I had always imagined it was. Not that I really want to dig up Lincoln,, but this made an impact on me that things that I thought might be lost and would never be explained might not be as lost as I thought.

I am so glad that it was Holmes in that crazy grave. Lets see what happens next!

[Ananayel]

I fell asleep right about when they had their hands on the skull, and came here to check. I did crack up when one of the scientists said there would be DNA there that could could test against the shawl or whatever else. No duh. You could test it against Bigfoot poo, it wouldn't make any difference. No one can prove the shawl even belonged to a Ripper victim, so whatever, enabler-lady. At least they didn't try to use that as a cliffhanger for a second season.

I wonder if they also had to get permission from any descendants of the daughter born to Holmes's second wife (if there are any) since they said "all living descendants."

Also, maybe I need new glasses, but that third photo from the box looked nothing at all like the Ripper victim to me. Color me puzzled.

[ChicagoCita]

11 hours ago, Arynm said:

In other random thoughts I had while watching this show, Lincoln was also covered in concrete after he was buried. I always thought that was the end of any investigation into his murder and/or ailments he might have had

In the early 1900s, some Chicago hood decided to steal Lincoln's body and hold it for ransom. It was protected by a single padlock in an above-ground sarcophagus. It never happened, but Robert Todd Lincoln decided to have his father's body encased in cement after that to prevent future idiots from stealing it.