S29: Vanck & Ashton

[Merneith]

3 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. If almost every team on the Race wanted them gone because they don't like them, I'll go ahead and believe that they have more knowledge about the situation than we do. In any case, not wanting to be around someone you don't like doesn't make you a bully. (If anything, Ashton has been bullying Vanck all Race). Just my personal opinion.

OTOH, I choose to believe that production, who sees everything and has even more knowledge than the individuals, knew what they were doing when they showed the cast acting like a pack of middle-schoolers.

As everyone says about these shows - if you're getting a "bitch" edit, it's because you said a bunch of bitchy things on camera.

Whatever thing you might imagine Vanck doing, all we've actually seen is Brook being a snotty bitch about how he's not the sort of person she'd want to have dinner with. That's all on her.

[Nalan]

30 minutes ago, pivot said:

Scott is lying. He was mocking Vanck at the Tram and was all over the U-Turn. He's trying to save face now that people saw his ugly side last night.

In addition, he and Brooke were both patting themselves on the back over their plan working when they were on the boat to the Detour.

[holly4755]

I don't believe that about a bitch edit from production, if they see a story chance they will pursue it even if it is aberrant behavior. no one is saints.  although it is true you have to say the words, they don't do a line by line edit, they won't change the background, but they can used stuff out of order.

despite that,. I think that there are bullies among the teams, even not if entire teams and they push people enought they figure don't fight it there is no target on your back. I.e. if Tara and joey had sense like they seem to, they could see this as a moment when they could be part of the U-turn, so you go along to keep the target off you. 

[HawaiiTVGuy]

2 hours ago, Merneith said:

OTOH, I choose to believe that production, who sees everything and has even more knowledge than the individuals, knew what they were doing when they showed the cast acting like a pack of middle-schoolers.

As everyone says about these shows - if you're getting a "bitch" edit, it's because you said a bunch of bitchy things on camera.

Whatever thing you might imagine Vanck doing, all we've actually seen is Brook being a snotty bitch about how he's not the sort of person she'd want to have dinner with. That's all on her.

Ironic because it looks like she voluntarily had dinner with Vanck (among others).  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEHEauSOsDU

 

Right around :50.  It makes me think that Brooke really only had an issue with Ashton.  Michael and Liz had issues with both Vanck and Ashton.  Matt and Redmond had the collective revenge factor.  The other teams were like, whatever as long as it isn't us.

[ByaNose]

13 hours ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

Ironic because it looks like she voluntarily had dinner with Vanck (among others).  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEHEauSOsDU

 

Right around :50.  It makes me think that Brooke really only had an issue with Ashton.  Michael and Liz had issues with both Vanck and Ashton.  Matt and Redmond had the collective revenge factor.  The other teams were like, whatever as long as it isn't us.

Jessica Leise said on RHAP it's the mob mentality. Some may have a true beef with Vanck & Ashton and the others go along since it's not them being targeted.

[spanana]

On 4/28/2017 at 5:37 PM, Rachel RSL said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. If almost every team on the Race wanted them gone because they don't like them, I'll go ahead and believe that they have more knowledge about the situation than we do. In any case, not wanting to be around someone you don't like doesn't make you a bully. (If anything, Ashton has been bullying Vanck all Race). Just my personal opinion.

Mileage varies, but this doesn't work for me.  Group think is a very real thing.  If a bunch of people say things about how they don't like a person and then I'm given no footage to back this up, then I don't automatically believe the larger group of people are right. 

I said this in the main thread, but I have no issues if other teams just don't like Vanck or Ashton for whatever reason.  There are a lot of people I don't like.  But in this case, it was the insinuations of them being a lower class or B list people or basically not cool enough to hang with the others that rubbed folks the wrong way.  

The show obviously can't show us everything that happens but this show thrives on drama and they had no reason to protect Vanck, or Ashton, if something had gone down.  It's actually IMO bad editing on the part of the show to show us people bitching about Vanck & Ashton and then not show us the reasons why (yes, I get Ashton could be annoying but she wasn't shown to be as bad as Brooke).  Sine Vanck & Ashton were a middle of the pack exit whose story ends here, there was no reason to protect them and not show things.  If they had lasted longer, and the show wanted to give them an underdog edit, then maybe yes.  But it reeks of bad editing otherwise.

[Nalan]

So apparently, London & Logan really are slow at going to and between tasks.  Vanck & Ashton were just fifteen minutes behind them at the end.

[Chyna]

On 4/30/2017 at 11:58 AM, spanana said:

But in this case, it was the insinuations of them being a lower class or B list people or basically not cool enough to hang with the others that rubbed folks the wrong way.

Yeah, the whole "we're the cool kids" thing was pretty ugly. 

[ByaNose]

I hate that all the others racers are now like, "We love Vanck & Ashton". They were a threat blah, blah, blah!!! I've seen a few of them doing podcasts (back in the day they weren't allowed to breath) and, they're all rewriting history. Of course, they did this a year ago but they were being hateful and very Mean Girls. I won't use the word bully because they are adults. I've haven't seen or read any exit press from the two of them yet and I'm curious what their take is.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

21 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I hate that all the others racers are now like, "We love Vanck & Ashton". They were a threat blah, blah, blah!!! I've seen a few of them doing podcasts (back in the day they weren't allowed to breath) and, they're all rewriting history. Of course, they did this a year ago but they were being hateful and very Mean Girls. I won't use the word bully because they are adults. I've haven't seen or read any exit press from the two of them yet and I'm curious what their take is.

I normally agree, but the only people who actually said specific negative things about Vanck and Ashton were Brooke, Liz and Michael (and TeamDouche).  Overall though, it was like, people don't like them and want to U-Turn them, OK we are going along with it.  Better them than us.

[Jobiska]

Vanck was on a sort of pre-show to one of London and Chase (her sister I think)'s YouTube recaps and was funny and more forthcoming than on the race.  I think he kind of needs encouragement to shine, at least in non-work situations (since he seems like he's found a good career path).  I enjoyed watching it.

[fib]

48 minutes ago, Jobiska said:

Vanck was on a sort of pre-show to one of London and Chase (her sister I think)'s YouTube recaps and was funny and more forthcoming than on the race.  I think he kind of needs encouragement to shine, at least in non-work situations (since he seems like he's found a good career path).  I enjoyed watching it.

Yeah.  The thing that I hated the most about Ashtons treatment of Vanck was the idea that was ruining the experience of someone who was a race fan's only chance to be on the race.  Whatever his faults (and he was a bit of a dunderhead a few times), that made me super sad for him.  Most people who aren't obvious jerks like Redmond and Michael and Brooke can be pretty delightful and fun in the right circumstances.  

[Lady Calypso]

10 hours ago, fib said:

Yeah.  The thing that I hated the most about Ashtons treatment of Vanck was the idea that was ruining the experience of someone who was a race fan's only chance to be on the race.  Whatever his faults (and he was a bit of a dunderhead a few times), that made me super sad for him.  Most people who aren't obvious jerks like Redmond and Michael and Brooke can be pretty delightful and fun in the right circumstances.  

Even people like Redmond and Brooke can probably be fun in certain circumstances. The cast seems to like Redmond, judging from other photos that they've taken post-Race. I do think that Vanck is just the type of guy who really can only be fun in calmer, less stressful situations. When it's a high stress situation, like the Race, he seems to go into another mode where it can be frustrating to be around him. I've known a few people like that who are fun when under the right circumstances, but I know to stay away for myself in other situations. The fact that Vanck does seem like a nice guy says a lot about him and it makes it easier to tolerate him. People like Redmond and Michael, who seem to be just genuine dicks, and people like Brooke who can't stop complaining, whining, and blaming other people for their own issues and faults, is what gets me a little more judgmental. Ashton's pretty much a shitty person because of the way she treats Vanck. No, it's not funny to hear someone talk crap about their partner right in front of them.

[Jobiska]

A clip Ashton shared (I couldn't watch more than about a minute of it) on her Facebook page had her berating Vanck because she drew from his reactions, or lack of them, that he didn't want to be there/wasn't 100% dedicated/etc.  I think Ashton's one of those people who, if you don't react like she reacts, she honestly can't understand that you may actually have the same feelings or goals underneath.   I think she got closer to this understanding by their final episode.  

I've definitely run into enough people who just don't have the ability to put themselves into another's shoes.  I'm a strong introvert, but I can imagine what it's like to be an extrovert because I do have fun with people--it's just that a relentless onslaught of social times is exhausting.  But some extroverts might not be able to understand my exhaustion.  My son has some unusual neurology that affected his behavior--most teachers finally "got" him but one teacher never did.  She had a very rigid pattern of thinking and could not in any circumstances put herself into his shoes.  
 

[fib]

6 hours ago, Jobiska said:

 I think Ashton's one of those people who, if you don't react like she reacts, she honestly can't understand that you may actually have the same feelings or goals underneath.   

I think she is also a mean girl from the popular circle who chose not to try to understand her partner.  

She said something to the effect of "you have no say over who your partner was and that was stressful".  Not true.  Do the first task (luggage find) faster, better, like Olive did, and you would have had more choice.  Be better at running, navigating, etc.  ie. Race skills.  

If i remember correctly, Ashton came in 2nd last in that 1st challenge.  She is LUCKY. She was selected by someone who brought some race skills. 

[JaggedLilPill]

7 hours ago, Jobiska said:

I'm a strong introvert, but I can imagine what it's like to be an extrovert because I do have fun with people--it's just that a relentless onslaught of social times is exhausting.  But some extroverts might not be able to understand my exhaustion.

Me too.

I think the misconceptions about introverts are interesting sometimes. i like being around people. I like interacting with folks, generally I prefer smaller crowds, but what makes me introverted is that I do need that alone time to recharge.

I don't know if that's Vanck, as I don't know him personally, but it definitely could be. 

From what I've seen of Vanck other places, he seems like a nice, cool dude and he probably takes a little more time to warm up to people and it's easier for him to do that in more relaxed settings.

To be fair to both Ashton* and Vanck (though I really don't like her that much) the race is such a high-stress time that I imagine it's not the best time to get to know someone. Even when there's downtime, it's probably difficult. However, with that being said, Ashton did know the stakes going into this.

She kind of reminds of the Married At First Sight people who know it's a huge possibility that they'll get someone they aren't entirely compatible with, and then they get pissy about it.

Ashton may claim she tried to work with Vanck, but clearly she was holding a grudge that this is who she got stuck with.

I would have liked to have seen Vanck with either Sara or Jenn or even London. 

[HawaiiTVGuy]

This is the clip mentioned elsewhere regarding Vanck doing a Q&A with Chase and London:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVOotSBJWeA

Hmm...wonder if having pamphlets for all the places was what caused Liz and Mike to disparage Vanck.

Also seems to confirm that the fireworks incident with the car didn't really matter to anyone involved.  At least to London's perspective.

Of course Kevin was his roommate at sequester, and Vanck implies he had a BLAST!

Lots of hints at Vanck in an All-Star season.

And I am getting the idea that there was an unfortunate disconnect with Ashton & Vanck regarding the race.  Vanck amazingly seems to have been the more social one and happy to chill with everyone, Ashton was probably more singularly focused and as participants have mentioned, if the race had been set up like most of the other episodes with ready-made teams of 2, then there was less socializing and more isolation.  I wonder if Ashton wanted to be more like that.

Jenn interviewed Vanck:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxE5PqiKJI0

Seems like he is a runner so probably didn't feel needing a physical partner as badly.  Needed a social partner.  Kind of ironic as it turns out.

Edited May 9, 2017 by HawaiiTVGuy

[HawaiiTVGuy]

I know Vanck looks more of a D&D type of "gamer" but, have to wonder if he might have been suited for one or both of the Seoul tasks.

[NutMeg]

On 5/27/2017 at 4:47 AM, HawaiiTVGuy said:

I know Vanck looks more of a D&D type of "gamer" but, have to wonder if he might have been suited for one or both of the Seoul tasks.

It's been my theory for a while that along the way of the race there are tasks that are perfect for some racers. Sometimes they get there, and viewers are very vocal about it, sometimes they don't make it that far, and some of us are left wondering "what if?"

For instance, there was a surfing task the season where one racer was a famous snowboarder, a casino task the season there were poker players, etc.

I wonder if the order of designing a race is find the contestants/design the challenges or the reverse. In any case, I wouldn't mind if each team had a perfect challenge for them down the road, as long as it's not in the first episode, or the last. Because, as we've seen, teams can and do get eliminated before their "perfect for them" challenge, and when they make it there, it's often a thing of beauty to watch them at the top of their game.  

[jhlipton]

5 hours ago, NutMeg said:

there was a surfing task the season where one racer was a famous snowboarder

You might be thinking of Bethany Hamilton -- she was a famous surfer who got a surfing challenge (for a fast-forward, I think).  So it was even worse than you imagine.

[NutMeg]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

You might be thinking of Bethany Hamilton -- she was a famous surfer who got a surfing challenge (for a fast-forward, I think).  So it was even worse than you imagine.

Thanks, yes, she was the one I was thinking of. And I didn't mind her doing well at the surfing challenge (did she even win the leg?), once again as long as its not towards the very end, if people have special talents and made it that far, I'm happy for them to showcase their talents because more often than not, it's pretty amazing to watch. And then, even if they are eliminated down the road, we'll remember that challenge.

As we will remember that wish we've seen more of Vanck and Ashton, whose thread this is, and who managed to do pretty well even with the difficult start they had. 

[Ducky]

On 6/6/2017 at 2:05 PM, NutMeg said:

And I didn't mind her doing well at the surfing challenge (did she even win the leg?)

Yes Bethany and Adam won that leg where they were able to take the surfing fast forward- causing Kym and Alli to come in last as they had major trouble with the FF then had to go back to do everything.  Ultimately Bethany and Adam came in third in TAR 25.