S12.E17: In The Dark

[Kara101]

5 minutes ago, normasm said:

Even some federal prisons are privately owned and run. Money is king there.

Sure, and I think privately owned prisons are a crime. But I don't think Reid is in one and even if he was, it is certainly not forcing the inmates to kill others. The inmates killing each other are bad people and I do not view them as victims of the prison system (obviously just my opinion!:))

[Hotchgirl18]

58 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

That's the way I read it (no pun intended). The way the team used to be structured, Hotch was the leader, Rossi was second in command, Morgan and JJ were the muscles, and whomever replaced Prentiss was the stereotypical "tough but warm" female agent.

(Now I'm not even sure I know how the team is being structured)

That doesn't leave a whole lot for the team's "emotional centre" so it got left to Reid and Garcia, who is also shown to be pretty "weak" herself. In this structure, it's intended that Reid and Garcia act as the team's "children" that they see as people they need to protect, out of the idea that the rest of the agents are capable of handling themselves. We can argue about the effectiveness and morality of this arrangement, but the fact remains that I believe the writers see Reid and Garcia as the two characters who are supposed to be most vulnerable on the show.

Given this, it's likely that the writers felt putting Garcia in too much peril would anger "the Internet" who seem to hate seeing any woman having to deal with any kind of challenge and label anyone who dares criticize that belief to be a sexist (see the row over Star Wars' Rey).

So they decided that to avoid a backlash, Reid would be the one who would get lashed, while Garcia would just cry about it (and other random things).

Which then leads to this, the prison storyline, which seems to be an excuse to ramp up Reid's damsel-ness.

I'm with you, it's insulting that the show is using this as a reason for Reid to be ineffective, but I'll also go further- it's hypocritical to do it to Reid when, time and again, CM has used many other throwaway characters who do nothing for the story except to be beaten by the Monster of the Week. Simply put, doing it to Reid does not make objectifying him in any way right- I think it's even more wrong, especially because we've come to know Reid to be a much better, more complete- and capable- character than that.

I do miss the structure of the team. 

[SSAHotchner]

On 3/23/2017 at 0:31 AM, R3volver said:

Maybe innocence.  I know we don't know if Luis was innocent or not, but maybe Reid believed him.  Or maybe it was because he noticed he was a young kid who seemed scared so he felt compassionate.  I'm not sure.

Haven't watched this one yet, but let's also remember that Elephant's Memory was written by Andrew Wilder, one of the best CM writers. The current writers often write without checking to make sure what they write is plausible, makes sense or keeps the characters' continuity. They don't seem to be capable of writing the depth of character that the early writers did. 

[PMPA]

1 minute ago, SSAHotchner said:

Haven't watched this one yet, but let's also remember that Elephant's Memory was written by Andrew Wilder, one of the best CM writers. The current writers often write without checking to make sure what they write is plausible, makes sense or keeps the characters' continuity. They don't seem to be capable of writing the depth of character that the early writers did. 

Remember, according to Erica Messer, its always been about the story and not the characters......I do think this was the moment I finally give up on the woman.

[Danielg342]

I don't disagree with a lot of your assessments about Reid. I share them too, actually.

I'm just trying to draw the distinction between Reid's actual character assessment and how Hollywood would view him. Since he's not physically strong and uses his mind and he's known to be emotional, he'll fill the role Hollywood usually reserves for women. In this prison arc, it's to serve as the "weakling damsel" that the rest of the "men" need to save.

I used "feminine" to describe Reid to highlight the double standard applied to him. Activists have howled to no end about how often Hollywood uses women as simply objects that men need to save, and the same thing is happening to Reid in this arc. Yet I don't see much in the way of protest about his treatment. If it were JJ or Garcia going through an arc where they were being repeatedly held down and beaten (if not actually raped), you'd have The Mary Sue and Jezebel all rising up in protest.

Because it's Reid? Not a word...

[Hotchgirl18]

10 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I don't disagree with a lot of your assessments about Reid. I share them too, actually.

I'm just trying to draw the distinction between Reid's actual character assessment and how Hollywood would view him. Since he's not physically strong and uses his mind and he's known to be emotional, he'll fill the role Hollywood usually reserves for women. In this prison arc, it's to serve as the "weakling damsel" that the rest of the "men" need to save.

I used "feminine" to describe Reid to highlight the double standard applied to him. Activists have howled to no end about how often Hollywood uses women as simply objects that men need to save, and the same thing is happening to Reid in this arc. Yet I don't see much in the way of protest about his treatment. If it were JJ or Garcia going through an arc where they were being repeatedly held down and beaten (if not actually raped), you'd have The Mary Sue and Jezebel all rising up in protest.

Because it's Reid? Not a word...

That double standard pisses me off too. 

[Aethera]

Hey folks - the discussion of team structure and the roles of individuals in it is fascinating, but it doesn't really belong in the episode thread - can we stick to the actually events episode itself in here, and take further general discussion or over-arching discussion to the other threads, like the Analysis thread?  Thanks.

[Sparger Springs]

On 3/23/2017 at 1:11 PM, TheGreenWave said:

This really came out of left field for me - so Luke threatened Shaw with revealing that he shot the informant through the stomach b/c she was pregnant with Shaw's baby??  WHAT?!??!  And, like what was Luke going to do with that info?  Tell a DA?  Tell Shaw's wife?  That was so weird.

My favorite part was Luke heard the name Shaw, and knew it was the FBI agent that shot the informant. Shaw is not exactly a rare name.

[zannej]

Wasn't this episode written by a new writer? I have to say that for a first time writer for this show, I thought she did fairly well. I don't recall Dania Bennett writing episodes before. I try to give new writers a little bit of slack because they might not come in knowing the voices of the characters.

I liked Alvez from the start-- probably because I liked the actor from CSI-- but I do agree that the way they have him interact with Garcia is very forced.

Although, I just wonder if he's the type of person who wants to win everyone over and who doesn't like having a co-worker dislike him so he is trying extra hard to get Garcia to like him. I don't think he is trying to date her, but I think he just doesn't want her to dislike him.

Despite the fact that this was a new writer and ignoring how Alvez is busting his hump to try to get Garcia to like him, I actually found their interactions in this episode to be better than in some of the past episodes. She wasn't outright rude to him.

I know the writers claimed they haven't done serialized writing before, but they tried in the past in multiple seasons (with season-long unsub arcs-- or multiple episode unsub arcs) and they have dropped the ball every single time.

From this episode, I'm starting to suspect that Shaw has more control than Reid thinks-- that Shaw is the one pulling the strings with drugs coming in and out and he either wants Reid to help or to stay out of the way. I think that is the real reason he was getting upset with Reid for interfering and trying to protect Louis. He wanted his henchmen to get Louis to do stuff with the drugs and he was refusing-- this interfered with Shaw's plans. Reid ratting out Shaw's people also interfered so Shaw wants Reid to stop. Since he has the threat from Alvez, he can't let anything happen to Reid directly again, but he can make his life miserable by hurting people that Reid wants to protect. And maybe letting Reid think that he might get hurt again if he doesn't cooperate is also on his agenda. I just hope that if this is the case, that Reid will see through the ruse and recognize that Shaw is not his friend.

[Hotchgirl18]

Could Shaw be  a Scratch plant?

[secnarf]

33 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Could Shaw be  a Scratch plant?

I've been wondering that since he first popped up. The more I see of him, the less convinced I am, though.

[Hotchgirl18]

Lol. Well, someone's a Scratch plant! Just gotta figure out who!

[mythoughtis]

Reid is showing no signs of intelligence at all. He's an FBI agent, not a 90 pound weakling.  He's always proven able to take care of himself and others up until now. Where is our intelligent DR Reid? He should hav had at least some training at protecting himself in the academy. 

I really don't see that the team  is supposed to be investigating Reid's off the books trip to Mexico that ended in someone's death, with all the signs pointing to him ....at the expense of their cases. They work for a living on the taxpayers dime. They can support him, follow Garcias' chart, keeping in mind that he is in more distant prison than when the chart was made. He would only be allowed a certain number of visits a month also.  And it's unrealistic to think a guard controls who goes into protective custody and who doesn't. That's not a subjective decision. 

Also unrealistic is how the two newest agents act as if Reid is their best friend when they have only known him a couple months.

Maybe the veteran actors want more time off, but we hardly ever see them even be in the scenes. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by mythoughtis

[Kara101]

4 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Reid is showing no signs of intelligence at all. He's an FBI agent, not a 90 pound weakling.  He's always proven able to take care of himself and others up until now. Where is our intelligent DR Reid? He should hav had at least some training at protecting himself in the academy. 

This is what annoys me. I don't expect him to turn into a macho man or a master jail gang member. I expect him to show that he is able to survive. His whole life has been about survival, and he has always succeeded. He has shown to be very inventive when it comes to survival. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[R3volver]

19 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Reid is showing no signs of intelligence at all. He's an FBI agent, not a 90 pound weakling.  He's always proven able to take care of himself and others up until now. Where is our intelligent DR Reid? He should hav had at least some training at protecting himself in the academy. 

I really don't see that the team  is supposed to be investigating Reid's off the books trip to Mexico that ended in someone's death, with all the signs pointing to him ....at the expense of their cases. They work for a living on the taxpayers dime. They can support him, follow Garcias' chart, keeping in mind that he is in more distant prison than when the chart was made. He would only be allowed a certain number of visits a month also.  And it's unrealistic to think a guard controls who goes into protective custody and who doesn't. That's not a subjective decision. 

Also unrealistic is how the two newest agents act as if Reid is their best friend when they have only known him a couple months.

Maybe the veteran actors want more time off, but we hardly ever see them even be in the scenes. 

4

I think if he had tried to defend himself against them or fight back in any way it would paint an even bigger target on himself. 

Judging this week's promo, it looks like he's going to be working out what's really going on with Shaw.

[Kara101]

Is Luis under the "white" group  in prison ? I'm a bit confused why the white gang is going after him. However, in "Alpha Male" the leader of the gang, Milo, looked like a similar ethnicity to Luis. So I'm assuming he's included in the "whites"?

Edited March 28, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[LadyMustang65]

I don't have the time to read all 4 pages of comments right now, so forgive me if this has been asked and answered, but is anyone else irritated that no one on the team seems to think that Scratch is behind Reid being in genpop?  He was originally scheduled to go into protective custody.  The bully guard pulls him out and sends him to general population, but no one in the protective custody area even seems to notice they're a prisoner short?  Really?  And then the lawyer is having trouble getting something going on getting him transferred, and everyone thinks that's completely 'normal' as well?  I'm hardly an expert on the court system, but it seems to me that courts are pretty protective of law enforcement personnel who end up in prison.  It just seems like Scratch has to have paid off or otherwise influenced a bunch of people because otherwise it's ridiculous that no one came looking for Reid that first day to take him into protective custody.

 

I liked the case of the week.  Having the unsub commit crimes while he was sleepwalking seemed fresh and different to me, and I thought it was interesting that he committed his crimes completely differently during the day vs. at night.  I even thought it was interesting how he found his victims at night.  So I guess I'm in the minority, but I thought that was well done.  Although I do agree that after last week with JJ crying about Reid being in prison, it was weird that she didn't seem the least bit concerned this week after he'd been assaulted.  It also bugs that the team doesn't seem to be doing anything at all about finding Scratch or clearing Reid's name.  I know they can't drop everything, but this would not be the first time they were not supposed to be working a case but were doing it on their own time anyway.  I'd like to see that to know they're not just giving up and "hoping" Reid would be exonerated. 

[ReidFan]

yep, all mentioned in the previous four pages :) you're not the only one who was irritated, like you said in your first paragraph. It's nuts.

[MMC]

So now I have something else bugging me after reading a review for this episode over at spoiler tv . And it this. The higher ups would have been the ones who approved of Reid going into protective custody in the first place. So why then are they refusing to rectify the situation when informed by his lawyer that Reid was illegally removed from protective custody and put in the general population.

[ReidFan]

I've been bitching about that since the first sign of it. *massive eye roll*

[normasm]

Bottom line, ladies, they did this because they needed the plot twist, so Reid would be in danger.

[MMC]

1 hour ago, ReidFan said:

I've been bitching about that since the first sign of it. *massive eye roll*

I hear you and I was right there with you. Up until now one probably could have surmised that perhaps that so called guard had talked to a buddy of his and asked him to erase all evidence of the fact that someone named Spencer Reid was suppose to be on the list of those who were slated for protective custody. And yes I realize it would have been a huge stretch, but at least it would have been some sort of explanation(no matter how convoluted) as to why no one has done a damn thing about getting Reid out of the general population and into protective custody where he is suppose to be in the first place. That is until Reid's lawyer informed the higher ups about Reid situation. And now the only explanation as to why he is being kept in the general population is that the higher ups are a bunch of good for nothing ass wipes who are refusing to do anything about it.  Well that plus as normasm has pointed out it they needed Reid to be put in danger.

[ReidFan]

I think they call it 'plot device'....... or 'poetic license'  :-D

[normasm]

No, the guard is controlled by Shaw. I don't know if Shaw has any connection to Scratch, but I really hope not. As in, Scratch may have gotten Reid in prison, but Shaw wanted him once he was there, for his own reasons. But hey, they'll probably make it that Scratch wanted to see what it would take to turn Reid. Knowing that turning bad would be one if not the most terrifying things for Reid.

[JMO]

2 hours ago, normasm said:

Bottom line, ladies, they did this because they needed the plot twist, so Reid would be in danger.

Agreed.  Still, it's dizzying.  Apparently, they only wanted him to be in a little bit of danger.  So, he's moved from the open space,  where they could grab him whenever, to a cell, where he has protection during the overnight lockdown.  And I still don't think that anyone but Shaw officially knows he's a fed.  It seems like they wanted it to be scary, but then maybe realized that 'scary' could easily spin out of control, so they pulled back.

Trying to make sense of the gen pop/protective custody thing---I think Shaw just likes to play.  He's bored, and he wants more real life chessmen to move around.  So he made sure he had the fed, 'saved' him so he would be beholden, and then had him assigned to the laundry room, so he would move the drugs out of gratitude.  

All of that seems pretty obvious.  What's not obvious (to me, at least), is how Shaw found out so quickly that a fed was on the way to prison.  It was presented as a sudden and unexpected move.  Did Shaw manipulate it?  Or is he connected to someone else, who did?

[1TrackMind]

Watching the end of this, I have to wonder if I missed something. I turned to my watching mates and asked 'So why should Reid move the drugs now? They KNOW they can't touch Reid, so the only bargaining chip they HAD was Luis, if he is dead what do they have? What you do is you cut off an ear or a finger, and hey if things don't go properly he has plenty of other stuff to slice off. Am I a better bad guy than the bad guys?'