S06.E08: Alt. Truth

[Pallas]

From Kel Varnsen's post in the thread for Ep 6.  

Quote

Also do we know when the show is taking place? Like how long before the president elect becomes the president? Also the President is being played by Charles Widmore from Lost? Is that someone they have shown before? I assume he is in on all of the conspiracies, since has that guy ever played anyone not evil?

With Quinn as Desmond, stranded in a basement or a cabin, not a bunker. 

But that makes sense: the person directing a willing Adal is the outgoing President. This gives us a villain with great authority atop the military/security apparatus and experience in working the levers, and an unambiguous political, ideological and personal motive to fuck with the incoming President. Combined with a firm expiration date, and little chance of consequence or the conspiracy's going public, even if found out and foiled.

Working back, the timeline between a Presidential election and inauguration approximates the ten-week run of the show. The President and his people had exactly that long to effect events from the top. This season began with Keane newly elected and her opponents organizing resistance -- not on the streets but in the clubs. Adal convened the meeting with The Dutch Masters, where assurances were made (and covert funds solicited, perhaps); Sekou was put in custody. The President had Dar Adal deliver a fruit basket of poison apples to Keane's suite. The first was the offer to consult her/implicate her in the action against Iran; when she didn't bite (on Carrie's advice), Plan B was activated: Saul sent off evidence-gathering; Sekou sprung from prison and sent to his death at a carefully selected site and moment; the President-Elect swept up in an action recommended by the President...

And so on. Depending on what universe the show-runners create for their show, the power behind Adal's conspiracy will be the outgoing President (threat defused and presented as an exception), or The Dutch Masters (thwarted here but never routed).  

[SharonH58]

I'm confused on what Dar's game plan is.  Is he going to let that radio talk show guy show that video, have her look back for 'disappearing' after the bombing and then come to her rescue?  And why the bombing?  Why try and kill Quinn and Astrid?  When is Carrie going to try and see Quinn again and find out he's gone?  Love this show.  It's even better after being disappointed with the 24 reboot.  :(

[John Potts]

They really are going out of their way to make Dar as irredeemable as possible. Bad enough that he's bumping off random muslims, now he's working with right wing broadcasters to deliberately traduce the President's son for purely political ends. If he doesn't die by the end of this season, I will be very surprised (then again, this is a series that has ha "Bad Guy Wins" as the end result of more than one Season). I can't actually blame Javadi for playing ball with Dar - the guy has been burned by his own side and Saul looks like a pretty poor bet (I'm hoping Saul & Carrie will end up bringing Dar down, but it could go either way).

On ‎15‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 2:41 AM, Utpe said:

Can you really fire bullets into water and expect it not to slow down?

I have learned (online, not practical experience) that water's pretty good protection (it will depend to a certain extent on factors such as bullet calibre and angle of shot).

On ‎14‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 10:12 PM, Norma Desmond said:

Why did Dar put a hit on Astrid, of all people?? It doesn't make sense.

I suspect Quinn was the target, Astrid was just collateral damage. Though that could come to bite Dar, too - the BND(?) are going to want to know HOW their agent died, particularly when she was (probably) a guest of the CIA.

On ‎13‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 3:00 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Wouldn't the DOD have confiscated all the video from that attack Keane's son got killed in? Wouldn't it be military property?

I will flove it if Dar is brought down by the military! I can just see Mr DespicableRightWingPundit going, "I thought you said this was the only copy?" "It is! I made one copy before handing in the original!" I can't see the soldier who spoke up going along with the smear campaign, either.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 3/18/2017 at 7:20 PM, SharonH58 said:

I'm confused on what Dar's game plan is.  Is he going to let that radio talk show guy show that video, have her look back for 'disappearing' after the bombing and then come to her rescue?  And why the bombing?  Why try and kill Quinn and Astrid?  When is Carrie going to try and see Quinn again and find out he's gone?  Love this show.  It's even better after being disappointed with the 24 reboot.  :(

I am curious to find out what his end game is too. Is it simply more power and influence for the CIA? Because I would think in a post-Brody blowing up the CIA and terrorists overrunning the Islamabad embassy world, the CIA would probably have a crazy amount of power. And yes I know Brody didn't actually blow up the CIA, but I am not sure if the public in Homeland world does.

[John Potts]

On ‎23‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 1:20 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

Is it simply more power and influence for the CIA? Because I would think in a post-Brody blowing up the CIA and terrorists overrunning the Islamabad embassy world, the CIA would probably have a crazy amount of power.

Maybe (and that is exactly what I assume Dar's goal is) - but it's equally likely that in the event of a "terrorist attack" on US soil, CIA power & influence might be reduced and its responsibilities handed to another Agency (FBI/Homeland/whatever) - after all, that's the third CIA failure we've seen in recent (ie. show) years.  Although that might be why he chose to stage the attack he did - the CIA are predominantly focused on foreign affairs (indeed, post Watergate, were banned from operations within the US - I think this has changed after 9/11) so making it an attack on US soil would make it (more) somebody else's fault (doubt he told his buddies at the restaurant about that part of the plan, if that is what he was thinking).

[Pallas]

On 3/22/2017 at 9:20 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

I am curious to find out what his end game is too. Is it simply more power and influence for the CIA? 

Saul told Carrie that Keane wanted to eliminate the CIA. So he and Adal began the season in alliance to protect the Agency, as when they teamed up to outflank Senator Tracy Lotts. They focused on Carrie's role as Keane's adviser. Saul tried playing good cop when he visited her office but Carrie stiff-armed him, denying she played any role with Keane. Adal, meanwhile, gathered ops against Carrie and let her know he had a hammer to drop -- while also convening meetings with the Yale Crew Team, to plan domestic terrorism and foment international hostilities, as needed.

Saul had no knowledge of any of his partner's unilateral moves: not the surveillance on Carrie, not the action with Sekou's van, not the Mossad charade. For his part, Adal seems to have under-estimated the scope of the right-wing radio host's power base and plans, including his henchman's decision to kill Quinn and a high-ranking agent of our top European ally. Both Saul and Adal have had a bad couple of years. 

[Roseanna]

I didn't expect what happended, but still thought that Saul's idea to bring Javadi to PEOTUS was bad. It was security risk (remember Brody in S3) and if the media learned of the meeting with an enemy who murdered his wife in the USA, it would show PEOTUS in dubious light (remember Goodfather never gave orders himself but always through Consiglori).

In addition I find both Saul and Carrie naive when they spoke to Javadi how they had worked together towards a common good. They seemed completely forgotten that they had outwitted Javadi and forced him to cooperation (from his POV to betrayal) and thereby humilated him as an Iranian and an intellegence officer. Thus, they had no reason to trust him (or his information) so naively they seemed to do.    

Before all: what was the point of the meeting? Even if Javadi had told the truth, or lets say what Saul wanted him to say, how could PEOTUS know better than Saul and Carrie who knew Javadi whether he spoke the truth?

Actually, what PEOTUS had to decide was whether to trust Saul and Carrie or Dar' interpretation about the Iranian nuclear program. In most cases people decide these kind of things not on the basis of facts but whether the facts correspond their word-view or even prejudices. PEOTUS seems to be more open than most people to change her opinions on the basis of facts - but this was a rare case when it's not a virtue but a vice.   

PS. Shall we ever find out who is the mole inside CIA, i.e. who changed the place of Brody's car in S2?

[Anela]

Astrid! 😞 Of course he gets shot, before she can point out that she loves him. I'm not usually a shipper, but I would have preferred them to be together. This beautiful, intelligent woman, who reminded him that if he went for her physically again, things would end differently - of course they had to kill her. 

I know that actors like good material to work with, and they've given Rupert Friend *a lot*, but damn, they're just ripping Quinn apart.