S06.E08: Alt. Truth

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Carrie and Saul present evidence to Keane. Quinn tracks a mark.

Promo:

Clips:

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I know that this season's episodes were written and filmed last year (well before all of the post-election stuff happened), but the people involved with the show must have been laughing at their amazing prescience with this episode title when the whole "alternative facts" thing happened in January. I guess that makes up for them having Keane as PEOTUS since reality didn't reflect that!

[grommit2]

To use a basketball analogy:  reality faked left and went right.  

[Constantinople]

Quinn's dead to me after what he did to Astrid.

[SimoneS]

Damn, Javadi and Dar played Saul to the hilt. I never saw that one coming, neither did Saul. If I was Carrie, I would give Saul wide berth too.

Farewell Astrid, should have never trusted Dar or a distraught Quinn. Looks like Quinn is arming for war next week. I wouldn't want to be Dar, his assassin or allies. I hope that the radio guy is on Quinn's list.

Just occurred to me that Dar will blackmail the President-elect with the footage of her son.

Edited March 13, 2017 by SimoneS

[LoveLeigh]

On 3/6/2017 at 4:55 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I know that this season's episodes were written and filmed last year (well before all of the post-election stuff happened), but the people involved with the show must have been laughing at their amazing prescience with this episode title when the whole "alternative facts" thing happened in January. I guess that makes up for them having Keane as PEOTUS since reality didn't reflect that!

Maybe most of the episodes were filmed last year, but just two weeks ago (2/26/2017) they were still filming in NYC. 

Rupert Friend in the NYPost

[RedFiat]

Oh damn, this episode is just exasperating, we have Quinn vascillating between keen spy instincts and batshit crazy spur of the moment decisions that got his "friend" killed.  Astrid out of the loop and gets dead. Then we have Saul so far out of the loop that a general hostile to the American government was right when he said  in response to Saul saying he didn't have many friends in New York--neither do you Saul!  Javardi  is the worst kind of human being , killing a guy  and think it fu bb

 

Carrie was in the show just long enough for Keane to cut her loose altogether. Seems the only way Carrie will find her way back to the Pres-elect is getting the raw footage of what really happened after Dar lays on the Alex Jones style hit piece on Keane's dead hero son. 

Edited March 13, 2017 by RedFiat

[Lemons]

4 minutes ago, RedFiat said:

Oh damn, this episode is just exasperating, we have Quinn vascillating between keen spy instincts and batshit crazy spur of the moment decisions that got his "friend" killed.  Astrid out of the loop and gets dead. 

I think his instincts were all reasonable. He thought someone wanted him dead and this is true. He thought Astrid was involved which was a reasonable suspicion He thought he saw the guy in the cap and it turns out that same guy was there trying to kill him. 

I almost,hoped Quinn was dead so he wouldn't have to feel the guilt of Astrid being killed. As for his punching her?  He thought she was in on the plot to kill him, so he gets a pass for that. A guy gets a pass if a female is trying to murder him. 

I don't understand what Adar is getting out of this?  

[Pallas]

That was riveting. I never leaned back, just further forward. 

59 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Just occurred to me that Dar will blackmail the President-elect with the footage of her son.

 I think Adal may have finally over-stepped with the alt-right footage. Keane won't buy it, and the ambivalent soldier may play a further role.

Why would Adal keep Peter alive, and bring Astrid from Germany, only to then kill them both? Did he decide that Peter was simply of no further use? Did Astrid bring Adal suspicions about Mossad -- is that when Dar told her about Peter, and asked her help? Or did Adal learn that Peter knows about the neighbor/Sekou plot? Either from Max or from intercepting Carrie's conversation with Saul? 

I was very sorry to realize that Jhavadi was Tony Soprano-to-Janice-about-Ritchie-ing Carrie about Brody. The pine trees... 

[SimoneS]

If we are to believe that he is so marginalized at the agency, I cannot imagine who Saul can turn to for help. The Russians and/or the Germans are likely his only potential allies. 

[Pallas]

4 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

If we are to believe that he is so marginalized at the agency, I cannot imagine who Saul can turn to for help

There's the kid who wants to be the next Carrie; maybe the Director (though we know Adal seems to have his/her ear, and may be operating with his/her tacit blessing). And most likely Keane, once Adal tries to strongarm her. That may prompt her to reach out to Carrie again. 

[WaltersHair]

Bye bye Astrid. A mean part of me wants to call her Carrie-light, but the actress is too good. Quinn just keeps screwing everything up. Is this karma for all those times he did well and cheated death? I hope he gets them all.

I'm glad they didn't spend the whole episode on mopey, crying Carrie.

This is the best the series has been in ages. I really can't wait until next week.

[SimoneS]

5 minutes ago, Pallas said:

And most likely Keane, once Adal tries to strongarm her. That may prompt her to reach out to Carrie again. 

But does Keane have any powerful allies? Dar kidnapped her and she hasn't retaliated. I don't think that she will have any "real" power until she becomes President. For now, she only has her political soapbox which is why the fake news radio guy is allied with Dar attempting to take away her support from the public.

[Artsda]

Quinn has more lives than a cat. I'm glad for that.

Dar with the footage just makes me want anyone to kill him. Tarnishing a hero who died in dead trying to save others.

[scrb]

Come on, now Dar is going to have a German agent killed on US soil?

How does he expect to get away with that?

Well after having his henchman bomb NY, kill an FBI agent, what's another one, right?

[Pallas]

Excellent point -- 

1 minute ago, SimoneS said:

But does Keane have any powerful allies? Dar kidnapped her and she hasn't retaliated. I don't think that she will have any "real" power until she becomes President. For now, she only has her political soapbox which is why the fake news radio guy is allied with Dar attempting to take away her support from the public.

If she works with Carrie and Saul to expose the fake report, she'll have public support back. She could then confront the President and CIA Director with an outline of recent events, and promise to launch investigations as of noon on January 20th if any further movement is made to undermine her position or policies. Meanwhile Adal should be getting his personal affairs in order. Granted, that won't be much a distraction...

[SimoneS]

16 minutes ago, scrb said:

Come on, now Dar is going to have a German agent killed on US soil?

How does he expect to get away with that?

Well after having his henchman bomb NY, kill an FBI agent, what's another one, right?

What can the Germans do though? They won't know who killed her and Quinn if Dar pulled it off. It is like Machiavelli said, "Never do an enemy a small injury." Dar is all in. If his scheme fails, he is finished so he is will to destroy them all to win.

Edited March 13, 2017 by SimoneS

[HavartiHead42]

That was so hard to watch. It felt like a much longer episode, because you knew each horrible thing that happened would be followed by something worse. 

I'm impressed by this season as well. I could barely force myself to watch the first episode because I couldn't watch another season of Carrie and Her Wobbly Chin. But now I'm hooked again. 

[dwmarch]

One thing that bugs me is that there is this one particular military contractor who shows up everywhere. He's watching Carrie. He's planting bombs. He's destroying evidence. He's killing FBI agents at their homes. He's hunting Quinn out in the wilderness. It makes me think that if the bad guys (these secretive military contractors with a huge campus waiting for new recruits) had a crew of anything more than one dude, team Carrie/Saul/Quinn would be utterly fucked. They can't figure out who this one dude is! Imagine if they had to face three or four of these guys!

[garyvp]

Well, now we're f*@%ed! Running out of good guys. Was Astrid out on leave or does the German FIS know about this? A cringer.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The ending had me so tense. First I was yelling, "NOOOOO!" when Quinn got shot through the door. Then I was yelling, "NOOOOOO!" when Astrid said she was going to get the gun in the car and then she got shot. Then I was yelling, "NOOOOOO!" when Quinn got shot AGAIN.

Worst assassin ever. He emptied his clip into the water, not even knowing if he was hitting anything. Then he left after 30 seconds of waiting to see if Quinn popped up.

Poor Astrid. First she gets interrogated and punched by Quinn and then she gets killed because he emptied out the gun in the car.

[nara]

It looks like Dar will undermine PEOTUS with the footage or blackmail her.  I hope they do something different instead and have him use the footage to win her loyalty.  Dar has been doing one bad thing after another this season.  They need to throw in a few good things to keep him from becoming a caricature.

Everyone needs a mentor (or a father) like Saul.  He always comes through for Carrie.  Unfortunately, that probably means he will die before the end of the series.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Finally, Carrie and Saul put their heads together and compare notes. Not that it did much good though. Guess they're gonna need Quinn to complete the team.

Saul. Always trusting the wrong people and now getting screwed over by Javadi. And it can never be said enough: Dar fcuking Adal.

Wouldn't the DOD have confiscated all the video from that attack Keane's son got killed in? Wouldn't it be military property? It's not believable to me that some TV demagogue would end up with it to manipulate however he saw fit.

Poor Quinn. He's getting his skills back but maybe not fast enough. The black ops guy who thinks he killed Quinn will be in for a rude awakening. And hope hopefully three in the head.

[SimoneS]

9 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Wouldn't the DOD have confiscated all the video from that attack Keane's son got killed in? Wouldn't it be military property? It's not believable to me that some TV demagogue would end up with it to manipulate however he saw fit.

It wasn't official video. Seems like the guy filmed it on his phone and kept it. The DOD didn't know about the video.

I have to think that Dar will kill Javadi. He is a loose end that Dar cannot afford.

Edited March 13, 2017 by SimoneS

[Lady Iris]

I hate being stupid about these sorts of things but I don't understand why Peter would need to be killed. Anybody to help please and thank you?

[slowpoked]

Wow, it looks like Homeland is going all in this season. Killing Astrid, who had a significant role last season (although admittedly, I didn't think she would be back this season as they went back to the US), and making Dar Adal really this big, bad who will do anything to get what he wants. I wonder if they're going big this year just in case they no longer get renewed for Season 7, and maybe anticipating this may be their final season.

Such a great episode, but I am left with a lot of questions.

So I guess that answers my question last week of what is Dar's plan in relocating Quinn with Astrid in the middle of nowhere - to eventually get rid of them. I've thought of what the end game of this plan of Dar, as I would think Astrid is still an active German agent and cannot just babysit Quinn for who knows how long.

And how evil is it of Dar, to loop in Astrid, who was innocent in all of this, take advantage knowing that she has a special fondness for Quinn and just mercilessly have her killed? Astrid, who had helped the CIA significantly over the years. But I guess to Dar, the end justifies whatever means to get there. I was hoping Astrid would join the Saul/Carrie/Quinn force to take down the big bad CIA, seeing as she's such a badass agent. But alas, her love for Quinn had her killed.

How did the plan to kill them come about? Was it the plan from the very beginning, or did Dar take his plan to Phase 2 when his hitman figured out that Quinn had him made? Just seems so over-the-top evil to ask help from Astrid, and visiting Quinn last episode - to go from that to this.

When did Javadi change his mind? Did Dar get to him as he was waiting in the homeless shelter? Or did Javadi make the decision on his own when he figured out that Saul doesn't seem to have an important standing in the CIA anymore, therefore, making him a useless and powerless ally?

What exactly is Dar's position in the CIA? He's not the director, seeing as he referenced someone else last episode when Saul was being interrogated. But how does he have so much power? How does he have a direct line to the PEOTUS if he isn't the director or the assistant director or something?

[ahpny]

Quote

I don't understand what Adar is getting out of this?  

At first glance, it would seem he's getting loose ends tied up. He suspects (maybe knows) Quinn knows too much or, at a minimum can, with Carrie's help, learn more. Someone has to know enough about what Carrie (and by extension, Quinn) knows to have the FBI agent killed. Hence Dar's effort to poison the Quinn-Carrie relationship. Whether by design or just luck, Dar's already poisoned the Carrie-POTUS/elect relationship.

But I continue to think this is too simple and there has to be more to the story than "Dar is evil." As others have commented, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for Dar to enlist Astrid's help and then have her wacked along with Quinn. Something else, something more, seems to be going on.

What also baffles me is that even after learning of Dar's dupliciity, neither ace-spies Carrie nor Saul can connect the dots to see Dar's hand in ginning up or wholly creating Carrie's Frannie-troubles especially after Carrie recounts to Saul Dar's confrontational warning to her. Also, how can Dar use the POTUS/elect's son's video against her if Dar thinks it shows the son's efforts to help other soldiers? Clever (that is, unfair) editting of that video isn't going to convince many if the original can't even convince Dar. I suppose convincing a few who might fall for deliberate mis-editting might generate enough leverage. The reluctant soldier didn't need much prodding or encouragement to say what the host wanted.

[TVbitch]

Damn. I liked her. She was as capable as Carrie without the crazy or quivering lip. Quinn would've been better off with her. I was hoping he'd share what he knows, and those two could be the heroes. But off course they had to clear the road back to Carrie. 

The show reached Jack Bauer levels of absurdity with Quinn rising out of the water (not even breathing heavy!). I knew he would, but c'mon now. It's not like he's kept up top physical conditioning of late. And the whole "hitman thinks you're dead in the water but really you're holding your breath for a super long time" is way too cliche at this point. If I was a hitman, I'd wait a full 10 minutes, walk off, but hide and watch to make sure my target wasn't David Blaine or something. Surely the hitman has seen Alias or Bourne Identity or other such shows. Having said that, I'm quite happy that Quinn remains unkillable. And it better stay that way! 

As for Carrie losing Franny and her "all I hear is unfit mother, unfit mother!!" meltdown. Wow, still ALL ABOUT YOU CARRIE. That's our girl.   

[rnelson13]

On 3/6/2017 at 3:55 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I know that this season's episodes were written and filmed last year (well before all of the post-election stuff happened), but the people involved with the show must have been laughing at their amazing prescience with this episode title when the whole "alternative facts" thing happened in January. I guess that makes up for them having Keane as PEOTUS since reality didn't reflect that!

Titles can easily be changed. I don't believe for a second that this was the original title.

[jrlr]

After much as I love his character, after Astrid died I was hoping Quinn would too.  Poor guy is already carrying enough physical and emotional trauma to sink an aircraft carrier, so the plot answer is . . . pile on more?  As his head popped predictably, ridiculously up out of the water I wondered if he might be moving to The Walking Dead, because honestly folks, Quinn has got to be one of the undead by now.  

[RedFiat]

Quote

I think his instincts were all reasonable. He thought someone wanted him dead and this is true. He thought Astrid was involved which was a reasonable suspicion 

This is where Quinn is fucking up. Throwing away the bullets because he thought Astrid was involved? That's not reasonable, especially since Astrid had been more than a friend to Peter, and she told him she trusted him before she went on her run.  Its as delusional as Quinn thinking Carrie was in on harming him.      

[The Bullpen]

I predicted what would happen to Astrid when Quinn threw the bullets away. But that didn't make it any less awful to watch.  This season has been really good.  But damn, that was hard to watch.  RIP Astrid. Go fuck yourself, Dar.  Karma's a bitch.

[LilaFowler]

If Dar Adal wanted Quinn dead, he and his secret military contractor in the cap had ample opportunity prior to this. If he wanted Carrie dead as well, he had both of them in the same house for weeks.  Why involve a German agent, ask her to break Quinn out of a psych hospital, take them out to the middle of nowhere and then try to kill them both? What kind of jumping through hoops is that?  A simple fall down the stairs at the medical hospital would have sufficed.  An overdose.  Anything.  Astrid's superiors surely know that she was on US soil as a favor to Dar and to look after Quinn.  How is Dar planning to explain her assassination to German intelligence?  Pin it on Quinn?  Again, why? Is Dar trying to make more enemies? I would love for the Germans to retaliate and go after Dar.  Saul is going to need support from somewhere, right? Who else has grievances as well as the resources to take Dar on?

The smear campaign on Keane's dead hero son is just so extra and disturbing.  It's like killing Astrid -- completely illogical and unnecessary.  I really wonder if Dar is stupid enough to trust this guy who says that the video depicting the truth is really "the only copy."  There's never just one copy.  Obviously the show is explicitly giving us this scene, as well as the one of the soldier who didn't initially want to participate, for a reason.

So many people have reasons to want Dar dead at this point that it's almost vaudevillian .  He needs to start twirling his mustache.  He double-crossed Saul.  He tried to kill Quinn.  He lured one of Germany's agents to the US and then had her murdered.  He's presumably going to let a manipulated video depicting Keane's son as a coward hit the press.  He's committing treason against the people of the US.  Plus if Carrie knew that he was the reason she lost Frannie, she'd want him dead, too.

Edited March 14, 2017 by LilaFowler

[HavartiHead42]

Quote

Throwing away the bullets because he thought Astrid was involved? That's not reasonable, especially since Astrid had been more than a friend to Peter, and she told him she trusted him before she went on her run.  Its as delusional as Quinn thinking Carrie was in on harming him.      

Right. But he can't trust his brain anymore. Before they killed Astrid, I thought the saddest part of the episode was Quinn saying his dreams felt real and his reality felt like a dream. How terrifying that must be, especially for someone who had always been ten steps ahead of everyone else. 

[Pallas]

16 hours ago, nara said:

It looks like Dar will undermine PEOTUS with the footage or blackmail her.  I hope they do something different instead and have him use the footage to win her loyalty.  Dar has been doing one bad thing after another this season.  They need to throw in a few good things to keep him from becoming a caricature.

But do we want Dar winning Keane's loyalty? Would that be Dar's doing a good thing? 

14 hours ago, slowpoked said:

How did the plan to kill them come about? Was it the plan from the very beginning, or did Dar take his plan to Phase 2 when his hitman figured out that Quinn had him made? Just seems so over-the-top evil to ask help from Astrid, and visiting Quinn last episode - to go from that to this.

That, I think: Dar and/or the henchman realized that Peter had him made, and Peter became a guest who'd overstayed his welcome. One question is, did Dar order the murders or was the henchman acting on someone else's orders? We know the henchman was reporting to Adal during the Javadi kidnapping, but is he also working with a gung-ho element within either the CIA or Adal's cluster of Concerned White Men -- and is it they who were responsible for the Sekou bombing?    

14 hours ago, slowpoked said:

When did Javadi change his mind? Did Dar get to him as he was waiting in the homeless shelter? Or did Javadi make the decision on his own when he figured out that Saul doesn't seem to have an important standing in the CIA anymore, therefore, making him a useless and powerless ally?

That's what Javadi said, but then, he would. 

14 hours ago, slowpoked said:

What exactly is Dar's position in the CIA? He's not the director, seeing as he referenced someone else last episode when Saul was being interrogated. But how does he have so much power? How does he have a direct line to the PEOTUS if he isn't the director or the assistant director or something?

Position in the CIA: Casting Director. Never met a coup he didn't make. From humble beginnings in the 60's, when he replaced Dick Sargent with Dick York and Jeffrey Hunter with William Shatner, he came into his own in the following two decades, staging productions throughout South and Central America. The man who brought you Pinochet, the contras and Widely believed to be "the former U.S. intelligence officer who suggested the (Salvadoran) death squads should stop dumping bodies on the side of the road because 'they have an ocean and they ought to use it.'"  

Direct line to Presidents, Presidents-Elect and nominees: Prayed with Nixon, told Ford to "judge not lest ye be judged," had his chart done with Nancy Reagan, encouraged front-runner Dukakis, "That's an inspiring sight, Governor: now don't forget the helmet..."   

[attica]

Max described Carrie's depression as 'the black dog', which is, famously, the name Winston Churchill gave his own bouts with the condition. It's something a body like Saul would know, but I suppose the writers made him stupid on behalf of the audience. Ah, well. I did like Saul getting testy with ol' Wobbly Chin in the car: "Pay attention, I'm not fucking around!' Saul, you speak for us all!

[shelley1234]

At least now Carrie and Saul know that Dar is the enemy they are fighting.   I always like Carrie and Saul working together.   Saul should have had possession of all the evidence that he got from Javadi.  I know he didn't anticipate being screwed over by him, but what a huge oversight to not have what he has in his possession.   

As for Carrie still being upset about her daughter being put in CPS custody.  She'd be a monster if she wasn't.   If someone called me an unfit mother and took my child, I wouldn't get over that lickety split either.   The fact that she was able to compartmentalize for quickly and then move on to help Saul says a lot about her previous training.  

Quinn just breaks me.   He knows what he saw, but he can't believe his own eyes.  For someone who used to be so good at things like this, it's maddening.   And it broke me as he couldn't get the words to tell Astrid that he emptied the clip in the gun.  Ahh.   I broke for him.   I don't think Dar initially planned on having him killed until he figured out that Quinn knew who planted the bomb and knew it wasn't Sekou.  If Quinn could connect those dots....then Dar has to eliminate him.   I don't think that was his initial intention until he came up and visited with Quinn by the lake.   

If Quinn isn't the one to take the shot at Dar in the end.....

[Ina123]

On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 11:09 AM, SimoneS said:

It wasn't official video. Seems like the guy filmed it on his phone and kept it. The DOD didn't know about the video.

No. It was specifically mentioned that Rudy? had a Go Pro (or whatever DOD uses) on his helmet. Rudy (I think that was the name) is lying in the interview but, clearly, he doesn't want to. Many of the firefights get downloaded by the participants. They had it in for Keane's son but it isn't clear why, yet. Heck, some people just hate authority and in some cases a leader is really incompetent. Look up fragging for a reference.

When Quinn threw the bullets from the mag I was screaming, put them in your pocket!

[Norma Desmond]

I'm surprised the murder/staged suicide of the FBI guy didn't have repercussions regarding Carrie. Didn't he call her before he died? Wouldn't she have been at least interrogated? Isn't there CCTV footage of her entering his house and leaving with his gun? What did she do to the gun with his fingerprints? Wouldn't the police be all over this case? Massive amounts of suspension of disbelief are required here.

 

Edited to add: Why did Dar put a hit on Astrid, of all people?? It doesn't make sense.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Norma Desmond

[TVbitch]

PS. If Carrie gets Max (who I guess is ALSO in love with her, cuz, I mean, what man isn't) killed, I will cut a bitch!!

[shelley1234]

2 hours ago, Norma Desmond said:

I'm surprised the murder/staged suicide of the FBI guy didn't have repercussions regarding Carrie. Didn't he call her before he died? Wouldn't she have been at least interrogated? Isn't there CCTV footage of her entering his house and leaving with his gun? What did she do to the gun with his fingerprints? Wouldn't the police be all over this case? Massive amounts of suspension of disbelief are required here.

 

Edited to add: Why did Dar put a hit on Astrid, of all people?? It doesn't make sense.

 

 

My explanation is that Dar wiped that murder scene....so as far as anyone knows FBI agent is just missing, not dead.  No evidence anything happened ever.  

And as for Astrid, she's collateral damage to eliminating Quinn.   That's why I believe it wasn't Dar's intention to kill Quinn until he heard he knew someone else planted the bomb.  That's when Dar sent his black ops guy to eliminate the loose ends.  

Edited March 15, 2017 by shelley1234

[Utpe]

GO, QUINN, GO!!!

I wasn't convinced that the guy in the hat had killed him at the end of the episode.  Can you really fire bullets into water and expect it not to slow down?  It's not like was unloading an AK-47 or something equivalent.  Plus, we don't know how submerged Quinn was to begin with.

I hope Dar gets his comeuppance in the finale.  Dirty old man.

[RedFiat]

On 3/14/2017 at 1:52 AM, LilaFowler said:

If Dar Adal wanted Quinn dead, he and his secret military contractor in the cap had ample opportunity prior to this. If he wanted Carrie dead as well, he had both of them in the same house for weeks.  Why involve a German agent, ask her to break Quinn out of a psych hospital, take them out to the middle of nowhere and then try to kill them both? What kind of jumping through hoops is that?  A simple fall down the stairs at the medical hospital would have sufficed.  An overdose.  Anything.  Astrid's superiors surely know that she was on US soil as a favor to Dar and to look after Quinn.  How is Dar planning to explain her assassination to German intelligence?  Pin it on Quinn?  Again, why? Is Dar trying to make more enemies? I would love for the Germans to retaliate and go after Dar.  Saul is going to need support from somewhere, right? Who else has grievances as well as the resources to take Dar on?

The smear campaign on Keane's dead hero son is just so extra and disturbing.  It's like killing Astrid -- completely illogical and unnecessary.  I really wonder if Dar is stupid enough to trust this guy who says that the video depicting the truth is really "the only copy."  There's never just one copy.  Obviously the show is explicitly giving us this scene, as well as the one of the soldier who didn't initially want to participate, for a reason.

So many people have reasons to want Dar dead at this point that it's almost vaudevillian .  He needs to start twirling his mustache.  He double-crossed Saul.  He tried to kill Quinn.  He lured one of Germany's agents to the US and then had her murdered.  He's presumably going to let a manipulated video depicting Keane's son as a coward hit the press.  He's committing treason against the people of the US.  Plus if Carrie knew that he was the reason she lost Frannie, she'd want him dead, too.

It seems surreal and random but I keep thinking that even though Dar has done a number of reprehensible things this season, it seems plausible (given the present administration in Washington)  that the undermining of everything particularly the president elect,  is a sort of Bannonesque alt truth, throwing everything into anarchy so that one authoritarian regime can put it straight.  Dar may have cleverly disarmed Carrie, Saul and Quinn... but the death of Astrid makes me think he might not ultimately be pulling the strings.  Yes the assassin spoke to Dar, but he may take his orders from someone else.  

Edited March 15, 2017 by RedFiat

[Mackey]

I hatehatehatehatehatehatehateinfinityplusinfinityXinfinitytothepowerofinfinity Dar Adal.

In less technical terms: I don't excuse the torture he's putting Carrie through in the service of the greater cause (in his mind) of making the USA more vigilant with regards to Iran. I don't approve of any of the killings. I'm uncomfortable with the lies and setups of good people. 

[Milburn Stone]

On 3/12/2017 at 9:14 PM, DakotaLavender said:

Maybe most of the episodes were filmed last year, but just two weeks ago (2/26/2017) they were still filming in NYC. 

And of course, even if the episode were filmed months ago, it could have been given its title last week.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 3/14/2017 at 7:32 PM, TVbitch said:

PS. If Carrie gets Max (who I guess is ALSO in love with her, cuz, I mean, what man isn't) killed, I will cut a bitch!!

Can the show please not make Max in love with her? I mean, Quinn already had a wife in the past and he had Astrid in his current life. There was no reason to make him also in love with Carrie, except that every man except Saul is in love with her. And then they die. That's pretty much how it goes. 

[scrb]

5 minutes ago, love2lovebadtv said:

Can the show please not make Max in love with her? I mean, Quinn already had a wife in the past and he had Astrid in his current life. There was no reason to make him also in love with Carrie, except that every man except Saul is in love with her. And then they die. That's pretty much how it goes. 

Quinn almost died and he was smitten.

But hasn't it been 3 seasons now that he's been carrying the torch?

Carrie is going to have to give him something soon or else it's more cruel punishment than the gas.

[Ottis]

On 3/13/2017 at 9:00 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

 

Finally, Carrie and Saul put their heads together and compare notes. Not that it did much good though. Guess they're gonna need Quinn to complete the team.

 

I hope that's the show's conceit. Because I was floored when Saul showed to Carrie he didn't have any idea that Dar was behind some of what has happened. I figured he had at least a clue that Dar was up to something.  And if he is this blind to the truth, how much of an asset is he any longer to US national security? He's been played by everyone around him. 

[love2lovebadtv]

1 minute ago, scrb said:

Quinn almost died and he was smitten.

But hasn't it been 3 seasons now that he's been carrying the torch?

Carrie is going to have to give him something soon or else it's more cruel punishment than the gas.

What do you make of Dar telling Quinn that Carrie is the reason behind his neurological damage? Quinn seemed crushed but now after what happened how will Quinn feel toward Carrie? Poor guy. 

1 minute ago, Ottis said:

I hope that's the show's conceit. Because I was floored when Saul showed to Carrie he didn't have any idea that Dar was behind some of what has happened. I figured he had at least a clue that Dar was up to something.  And if he is this blind to the truth, how much of an asset is he any longer to US national security? He's been played by everyone around him. 

Yea, I like and respect Saul. I wish they would stop making him completely ignorant of what's going on around him. Carrie & Saul are better when they're on the same side. 

[piequinn35]

Wow, that was an intense episode, thank goodness my boyfriend is still alive! RIP Astrid. :(