ulkis March 7, 2017 Share March 7, 2017 (edited) I'm glad Idelle and Featherstone made it onto the Walrus. Do we know the name of the ship Flint and Silver were on, or was it just a random boat? I was going to say it feels a little repetitive not showing what happened to Madi after they did it with Anne two episode or so ago, but I guess, if it is Billy, they didn't want to give that out right away. If it is him I'm going to laugh because as WatchrTina said, it's pretty crazy that he manages to get all the way over there and drag them out after getting the crap beat out of him, but Israel Hands took him down in two seconds before. Rogers is dumb. I suspect he will be demoted and/or put in prison for colluding with the Spanish; that will be his punishment, in addition to Eleanor getting killed. I suspect grandpa Guthrie will be more upset about the loss of a great grandchild more than Eleanor. 7 hours ago, ganesh said: Burning, shooting, blowing things up! The last part of the series is going to be bonkers. I have no idea what the plan is with the grandfather, but I hope it's fairly ridiculous and they pull it off. There should be a cameo by Vlad. ;) Edited March 7, 2017 by ulkis Link to comment
yellowfred March 7, 2017 Share March 7, 2017 3 hours ago, ulkis said: Do we know the name of the ship Flint and Silver were on, or was it just a random boat? I think that Flint and Silver are on the Walrus while Jack and Max are on Rogers' old ship (the sloop he was on when Teach was going after him, which they then stole back from the British guards). 3 Link to comment
feverfew March 7, 2017 Share March 7, 2017 (edited) On 6/3/2017 at 4:45 AM, Ottis said: Max finally said it... civilization has been winning for 10,000 years. Why do the pirates think they will fare any differently? 19 hours ago, Neurochick said: Ding, ding, ding. Correct, why? Civilization has the ability to grow and change. The pirate way of life seemed stagnant to me; steal shit, go back to the island, get fucked up, party. Lather, rinse repeat. Is it, though? Winning, I mean? Every uprising; every revolution has been against (so-called) civilization. If civilization is always winning, we would all be part of the Roman Empire still. We wouldn't have had The French Revolution, The American Revolution; slave trade would still be happening. Obviously the pirates' way of life would never be possible in the long-run: An independent government must be self-sustaining, not dependent on what they'll get from raids (one of the object lessons from the Viking Age: You need farmers and tradesmen to form a lasting community). But the while most pirates didn't look further than being immediately free from the long arms of British prisons, the ideology put forth by Billy, Flint (buried as it was by his need for revenge), Madi, even Eleanor, of a self-governing Nassau isn't so far away from what happened in America fifty years later... Edited March 7, 2017 by feverfew 3 Link to comment
ulkis March 7, 2017 Share March 7, 2017 8 hours ago, yellowfred said: I think that Flint and Silver are on the Walrus while Jack and Max are on Rogers' old ship (the sloop he was on when Teach was going after him, which they then stole back from the British guards). Thanks! Link to comment
ganesh March 7, 2017 Share March 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, feverfew said: We wouldn't have had The French Revolution, The American Revolution; slave trade would still be happening. They haven't gotten to that point on the show in world history yet. Flint has talked about revolution and self-governance enough now, and there's been a slave rebellion, that TPTBs I think are making the case that this all factors into that larger context. Link to comment
maraleia March 7, 2017 Share March 7, 2017 I'm mad that they won't kill off any of the male main characters, as of this episode, while both Eleanor (a queer woman) and Madi (a Black woman) died during this episode. 1 Link to comment
KatWay March 7, 2017 Share March 7, 2017 (edited) Quote I'm mad that they won't kill off any of the male main characters, as of this episode, while both Eleanor (a queer woman) and Madi (a Black woman) died during this episode. I get that (with this episode), but also I'm fairly sure Madi's not dead, like...no body no death. This show does death fake outs all the time. Plus there's still two queer women on the show who might be among the few survivors of the entire mess. And I'm also sure we'll see some male main characters die before the show is over. The first big death of the show was Gates, and they've also killed off Vane already. Edited March 7, 2017 by KatWay Link to comment
Neurochick March 7, 2017 Share March 7, 2017 4 hours ago, feverfew said: Is it, though? Winning, I mean? Every uprising; every revolution has been against (so-called) civilization. If civilization is always winning, we would all be part of the Roman Empire still. We wouldn't have had The French Revolution, The American Revolution; slave trade would still be happening My post stated that civilization has the ability to grow and change. Those revolutions changed civilization, but civilization still exists. 1 Link to comment
TobinAlbers March 7, 2017 Share March 7, 2017 Eh, screw Silver. Taking Billy to the Underhill Estate to smooth things over so that he and FLINT can continue their war and promising them that they can do what they want to him as long as he’s alive in the end? Glad Billy told him to fuck off. Interesting that he was let go to escape another day so, yeah, he’s going to do something to strike back at Silver and then really bring the Silver’s wrath down on him. I hope that he doesn't, but Silver's still too sweet on him for Billy to align to his TI version. He has to cross a line that makes Silver his boogeyman. And of course Silver loses Madi and he’s all ‘It’s over.’ Whatever dude. But at least he made it clear, his and Madi’s decisions to participate in this were their own and he wasn’t going to assign blame to Flint. That’s actually quite mature given his emotional state. Eleanor was a fighter. I am sad she went down in such a brutal way, but then these are brutal times, and she whole heartedly played the ruthless bloody game like all the other men and doled it out. Yes, she wanted to get out but island politics weren’t just going to let her go. And it really was sad that it was a wound to the gut that did her in. That’s when it really hit her that this was her last stand and she and the baby weren't going to make it. I don’t think her death wasn’t just about Woodes’ manpain. Her machinations played a big role in her demise so it was in some ways about her chickens coming home to roost. Max, Billy was bitching about the same stuff you are (not following Flint and getting out), and we saw how he ended up. A few random comments: Sucks that Billy never got a love interest. Flint, Silver, Jack, Max, Anne, Vane, Eleanor all got their rocks off but Billy of the beautiful arms and body never got busy. Shame. Max, Flint, and Silver really are wily ones. They make no apologies for their decisions and continue to betray people they deal with and yet people still keep trusting them. Shallow comment. I miss Flint’s badass leather seafaring ensemble from S3. The detail work on the boots, coat, and vest were magnificent. 1 Link to comment
Kathemy March 7, 2017 Share March 7, 2017 4 hours ago, maraleia said: I'm mad that they won't kill off any of the male main characters, as of this episode, while both Eleanor (a queer woman) and Madi (a Black woman) died during this episode. Eh... Yeah. As per my original prediction, here they come. Charles Vane says hello. Blackbeard says hello. ... and you really believe Madi is dead. Sigh. 1 Link to comment
Ottis March 8, 2017 Share March 8, 2017 23 hours ago, feverfew said: If civilization is always winning, we would all be part of the Roman Empire still. We wouldn't have had The French Revolution, The American Revolution; slave trade would still be happening. Obviously the pirates' way of life would never be possible in the long-run: An independent government must be self-sustaining, not dependent on what they'll get from raids (one of the object lessons from the Viking Age: You need farmers and tradesmen to form a lasting community). But the while most pirates didn't look further than being immediately free from the long arms of British prisons, the ideology put forth by Billy, Flint (buried as it was by his need for revenge), Madi, even Eleanor, of a self-governing Nassau isn't so far away from what happened in America fifty years later... My view is that those historical points where a "revolution" changed civilization were all still within the confines of the concept of civilization. The pirate POV has a component of that (the general idea of being free from a power they view as being tyrannical), but it's mostly very different. Their perspective on tyranny tends to be that when the pirates do something illegal, things get all tyrannical, for instance. And that the poor and lower class struggle. Both are aspects of civilization. Imperfect and in need of periodic evolution, but civilization all the same. Civilization allows at least some people to invent, to create art, to think about the future and advance society. If it didn't work, we would all still be nomadic hunter-gatherers. I've posted over the seasons of Black Sails that I don't understand the pirate view of the future, even while the show tries to romanticize it and make it appealing (freedom, men living as they want, etc.). As you note, they cannot sustain themselves by raiding and stealing, logistically if not morally. So what is their point? They will get free of the British, and then ... what? I understand that many of the pirates are not the kind of people who think about the long term. But some of them, the leaders who we have met, do. Flint seems to be gambling that a slave revolt, combined with pirates, will be enough to make Nassau unattractive to the powers of the world. That seems naive, given history so far even in his world. 1 Link to comment
Tanya852 March 8, 2017 Share March 8, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, Ottis said: As you note, they cannot sustain themselves by raiding and stealing, logistically if not morally. So what is their point? They will get free of the British, and then ... what? I believe they want to create their own civilized world/community, but without slavery and under the rule of just leaders (Queen Madi!). Basically like an American Revolution. Edited March 9, 2017 by Tanya852 Link to comment
BroncoLayne March 13, 2017 Share March 13, 2017 (edited) I smiled at all the posts about Madi and her potential demise. Spoiler If you read Treasure Island, of which Black Sails is the prequel of course, you will find the LJS owns a public house in Bristol and he agrees to lead the hunt for the treasure. The Squire who is leading the expedition then writes to his friend saying that LJS "will leave his wife to manage the inn............and she is a woman of color" Edited March 13, 2017 by kariyaki Book spoilers need to be tagged 1 Link to comment
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